Trevor Tucker is one of three candidates for Flagler County School Board, District 4. Ron Long and incumbent Christy Chong are the others. Chong has declined to participate in the Live Interview.
It is a non-partisan race: all registered voters regardless of party affiliation or non-party status may vote in the Aug. 18 primary.
Three seats are up on the School Board in this election cycle. District 1 is an open seat, and has been an open seat since Derek Barrs, appointed to fill out the erm Sally Hunt did not complete, left for a job in the Trump administration last fall. Cathy Moon and Jill Woolbright are the District 1 candidates.
In District 2, Rob Wood is challenging first-term incumbent Will Furry, who had originally declared he was running for a congressional seat. He abandoned that effort after his campaign struggled, and announced he would run again for the School Board.
In District 4, if any of the three candidates–Chong, Long or Tucker–garners more than a 50 percent majority in the Aug. 18 primary, that candidate will be the winner. If none of the candidates clears the 50-percent threshold, the top two vote-getters will contest the seat in the Nov. 3 general election.
Furry, Chong and Woolbright have declined to answer the Live Interview’s questions. They alone, among the 19 candidates running in the three major local elections in the primary, have declined.
Flagler County School Board members serve four years. They’re paid $44,152 a year, an amount that will likely go up by a few thousand dollars by next year.
The Live Interview format changed this year. Since 2010, FlaglerLive had submitted identical questions to all candidates, enabling them to answer in writing. There typically were a round or two of follow-up questions, also in writing. Artificial intelligence has made that approach obsolete now that candidates can run the questions through AI and spit out prefab answers. To get around that, candidates were invited to a video interview. The video and the transcript are provided below.
The candidates were provided the same basic question within half an hour or less of the scheduled interview, but obviously not the follow-ups, which all differed. The questions to county commissioners are here.
Following the interview and before publication, the interview transcript went through two rounds of editing at this end, once by AI (yes, the irony is inescapable) for spell checks, copy editing and to smooth out verbal tics or repetitive words, and once by me for the same purpose. The candidates were then provided with the interview transcript and the video to review–not to make substantial changes, but to verify transcription accuracy, and, if they so chose, to add a postscript: if they felt they may have misspoken, or not clarified a point, or preferred to revise an answer, they were given that chance in the postscript, without changing the original text in the transcript. The postscript window is remaining open for subsequent additions, until the election.
The interviews can be quite long–not a surprise for a site pathologically incapable of brevity, but the county is awash in candidat quickies. We offer a little more depth, seeking to draw a profile rather than check off boxes: an election is not a speed date but a four-year commitment. The Live Interview’s aim is to elicit as much candor and transparency as possible, and to learn about the candidate beyond the basics in what amounts to extended conversations about the person, the character and temperament behind the candidate, the candidate’s seriousness, and the issues.
The rest is in the voters’ hands.
–Pierre Tristam
Flagler County Commission Greg Feldman (Dis. 2, R) Theresa Pontieri (Dist. 2, R) Anna Jones (Dist. 4, R) Drew Moss (Dist. 4, R) Leann Pennington (Dist. 4, R) Flagler County School Board Cathy Moon (Dist. 1) Jill Woolbright (Dist. 1) Will Furry (Dist. 2) Rob Wood (Dist. 2) Christy Chong (Dist 4) Ron Long (Dist. 4) Trevor Tucker (Dist. 4) Palm Coast City Council Tony Amaral Jr. (Dist. 2) Jeani Duarte (Dist 2.) Jimmy Hengy (Dist. 2) Dylana Dee Galery (Dist. 4) John Kvederis (Dist. 4) Ramon Marrero (Dist. 4) Darlene Shelley (Dist. 4) The candidates' interviews will be live-linked the day their interview publishes. |
The Interview Themes in Summary: Quick Links
- Basics
- Preparation and Character
- Vision
- Evaluating the current board
- The YMCA
- Arming school staff
- IB and Cambridge AICE
- Enrollment’s flatline, vouchers
- A rating vs. national standards
- DEI
- Funding loss from U.S. Department of Education
- Prayer in schools
- Rap sheet
- Postscript
The Video:
See Trevor Tucker’s financial disclosure form here.
FlaglerLive: Thank you for taking part in the live interview. Let’s start with just where you were born and when.
Trevor Tucker: Daytona Beach, 1976, because there’s no hospital here in Flagler, and I’ve been here ever since.
FlaglerLive: You’re a native, in essence, you’re a native to Flagler County, and you’ve gone to school in Flagler County.
Trevor Tucker: Yes, well, my mother was a teacher in Volusia in elementary school, so I did go to school for elementary school in Volusia, and then middle school and high school here.
FlaglerLive: What high school did you graduate from here?
Trevor Tucker: Flagler Palm Coast High School, 1994.
FlaglerLive: And it was FPCHS at the time.
Trevor Tucker: The only high school we had, yes.
FlaglerLive: What have your jobs been since then?
Trevor Tucker: Well, I guess for a brief period of time, after college, I worked for Andersen Consulting, an arm of Arthur Andersen, for about six months. Then at that point in time, I had an opportunity to come back to the family business here in Flagler. I came back to the family business, which is a pest control company, and I’ve been with that ever since.
FlaglerLive: What’s the name of the company?
Trevor Tucker: Sun Country Pest Control and Shoreline Pest Control. We had a merger in January with another company. Also, I started an educational consulting business for a period of time, and we were going to Duval and fixing those schools that were D’s for turnaround.
FlaglerLive: That ended when?
Trevor Tucker: I would have to go back and look, but I believe that ended roughly around when Covid broke out in 2020.
FlaglerLive: March 2020.
Trevor Tucker: March 2020. So, I think 2023.
FlaglerLive: What was the reason for the consultancy to stop?
Trevor Tucker: There were no new contracts in the turnaround business. You have to have schools that have D’s or F’s three years in a row in order to qualify for that program with the state. Basically, there were no new grades out there because of the fact that they also changed standards, and when they change standards, you’d have kind of like a three-year reprieve. So, if you didn’t have a school that you were working on, and you only had two years to fix the schools anyway, there was nothing. We bid on other things in Duval, but then those schools became C’s, so there were no contracts in Duval at the time.
FlaglerLive: Somehow there are no D’s and F’s in Florida because it’s like Lake Wobegon. Everybody’s average is somehow the same up, right?
Trevor Tucker: Well, just Duval. They changed superintendents. They changed a lot of things. There weren’t any new contracts, so we bid on some stuff, but you bid on it before they get their grades. We bid on it, and then they got the grades, so they didn’t need the services anymore.
FlaglerLive: You’ve been on the school board before. Tell us, you were initially appointed to whose seat?
Trevor Tucker: Peter Palmer passed away, so I was appointed to that seat by Charlie Crist.
FlaglerLive: In what year?
Trevor Tucker: January of 2010, and then that same year I ran for election and won the 2010 election, and then won three consecutive elections after that.
FlaglerLive: And you lost in 2022. That’s right. Okay, it’s a nonpartisan race, obviously. But what is your political affiliation?
Trevor Tucker: Well, it’s supposed to be nonpartisan. I’m a registered Republican, but this race is nonpartisan. Right.
FlaglerLive: You’ve always been a Republican.
Trevor Tucker: Yes, sir.
FlaglerLive: All right. You’ve been out of office for four years. How have you continued to stay in touch with the district to prepare yourself so that if you were elected again, you will be prepared to start from day one?
Trevor Tucker: Besides watching meetings and reading the news, I try to speak with principals and any staff members who will give me any ideas of what’s going on within the district.
FlaglerLive: You’ve maintained connections with the administration.
Trevor Tucker: Yes.
FlaglerLive: And you had actual meetings, informational meetings, since you left office.
Trevor Tucker: Yes, I’ve had breakfast with folks. Yes.
FlaglerLive: What is your method for arriving at decisions?
Trevor Tucker: I like to take the information and weigh it myself. But then, if I don’t understand the subject very well, I ask other people if they can give me more information. If it’s something that affects a certain group, like parents or a certain population in the school system, then I usually try to ask some of those individuals what their feelings are on this. Will it hurt them? Will it help them, actually? And then from there, I vote.
FlaglerLive: Why did you decide to come back?
Trevor Tucker: The board was not very cohesive. You don’t have to agree with someone, but I don’t like the tone that the board is setting currently. It seems like there’s two versus two. That’s not very cohesive. Even if you disagree, you should be able to work with someone because everyone, even if I disagree with them, I believe everyone has the best interests of the children at heart.
FlaglerLive: What would be a character flaw that you find challenging in yourself, and have found challenging on the board in your service previously?
Trevor Tucker: I’ll be truthful. I don’t get very emotional. I don’t get very worked up, and I guess that can be a fault because I’m not going to champion a cause or be extremely passionate about anything, because I think you have to be rational and focused on problem-solving for these decisions. You won’t hear me expound on something a lot. I’m very short with my comments. I always have been. I try to say something that’s meaningful, and that’s about it. I get criticism because people say, “Hey, you don’t speak enough, or you don’t let the other board members know what you plan on doing.”
FlaglerLive: You do have the clearest poker face of any elected official locally, and your comments usually are about 15 seconds long. Sometimes even on important issues, you talk very little, but you get to a decision. You don’t seem to explain sometimes why you decided what you decided. Could that not be a bit of an issue if you don’t explain why you’ve reached a certain decision?
Trevor Tucker: It definitely can be, and I’ll say that’s my fault. I should probably be clearer whenever I vote on something, especially if it’s a controversial issue. I usually have thought about it, and I have reasons. But yes, I agree. I’m not that great whenever it comes to explaining all the reasons why.
FlaglerLive: You’re not bored up there.
Trevor Tucker: No, definitely not.
FlaglerLive: Sometimes what you project is just sitting there, but there might not seem to be the engagement that would be typical of an elected official during meetings, precisely because you’re not very emotional and you don’t wear your thoughts on your sleeve. So sometimes even I’ve misinterpreted that as meaning, well, does he really want to be there?
Trevor Tucker: I definitely want to be there. It’s very impactful for my family and future families. My family has gone to school here for many generations, and I hope my kids come back here and can stay here, and their children can stay here. The educational system is the best way to get ahead in life. It’s free; it doesn’t cost you anything. Without having a quality educational system, it’s really hard for a family or anyone to get ahead. And I really do care about this educational system here in Flagler.
FlaglerLive: All your children have gone through the system, and there is a new one who is just starting.
Trevor Tucker: Well, my middle child is still in the system. My daughter graduated three years ago, just graduated from college, and she’s going to get a master’s. I’m very proud of her. My son’s a senior at Flagler Palm Coast High School. He’s in the IB program, and then I have a 4-year-old. He’ll be an older student because of his birthday; he still has one more year of VPK before he can go to kindergarten.
FlaglerLive: Right. Always like to hear students are in the IB program. Who would you consider a model of leadership in Flagler County government? I mean on governing boards like the school board, the county commission, the city council, Flagler Beach, or Bunnell.
Trevor Tucker: I’d say Andy Dance. I’ve always thought he’s been very rational. He’s always had great reasons for his decisions. I think he’s very structured in the way he deals with things, he likes information, and he doesn’t do anything in the heat of the moment either. So I think he’s been a great model for Flagler County.
FlaglerLive: You served with him several years on the school board.
Trevor Tucker: Yes, and that’s why I’d say I definitely feel like he is one of those individuals.
FlaglerLive: Beyond the essentials, you know, proficiency and that sort of thing, and the slogans like “Flagler Forward,” what is your realistic vision for public education in Flagler County, and how are you uniquely qualified to pull that off?
Trevor Tucker: I think the most important thing for schools is to have multiple options for students. You need high academic programs, but if a student doesn’t wish to go on to college, then we need to have quality trades. We need those trades in there. If students can be prepared to come out and actually have a job straight out of high school, I think those are very important programs for students. We need to have a welcoming environment in the schools and classes. That way, children and students can come in and say, “I feel like I want to be here. I want to learn.” That is the most ideal situation: when a student comes out, they’re prepared for either continuing their academics or going to get a job.
I’m qualified because I was on the board for 12 years. If you think about it, we did a lot. I don’t want to take credit for any of these decisions because it’s always a board effort, not any individual. But during that time, ACE got introduced at Matanzas because we didn’t have a high academic program at Matanzas; all we had was IB at FPC. The Firefighter Academy was introduced. The Veterinary Tech program was introduced. Those programs are all things that go with providing actual trades that you can learn. Plus, if you don’t wish to go that route, you have the high academic standards. So I think those are really important paths. The more paths you have for students, the better those students will perform. Also, they might find something they love in life to do.
FlaglerLive: What is your level of comfort with interactions in the community with community members from all backgrounds? You did say that you are not an emotional person, but what’s your level of comfort in interacting personally with people and with all the diversity that we have in this county out in the community beyond the schools?
Trevor Tucker: I will talk with anyone. I enjoy speaking with people from different backgrounds and different ways of life. That’s the best way to learn from anyone: to be able to talk to them, even if I don’t agree with them. You should be cordial. There is no reason to be mean or hateful because someone disagrees with you. That’s my opinion. I enjoy talking to anyone who wants to talk to me.
FlaglerLive: Evaluate the current board’s performance in the last two years. Give them a grade to start with.
Trevor Tucker: A lot of that would depend on what we are trying to judge overall, because I feel like they’ve done a good job on the routine day-to-day things. I don’t feel like in the last two years they’ve introduced any new programs that could benefit students. It feels more like they’re maintaining what was already there, so I’d probably give them a B or B-plus because they haven’t gone backwards. Academic-wise, you can actually say they’ve gone forward because now the district’s an A. But I would credit staff and the students and everyone who’s working really hard for that, though you have to give some credit to the board because they gave the staff and students the opportunity financially by giving them the right tools to become an A.
FlaglerLive: Are there a couple of examples where they’ve failed or lacked, where they’ve not been as successful or effective?
Trevor Tucker: Sure, I will say the biggest thing is when they went to vote for vice chair. This is a position; this is not life-threatening. This is not something that I think someone should die on a sword for, and you had a two-to-two vote that lasted over 100 votes on the same topic. I don’t understand why that was such a serious situation. Two of the board members gave options that we could split the time, and the other two said no. It’s really hard to move forward if you draw a line in the sand over something that is, to me, just an honorary position. The only time that person is even doing anything is if the chair is not available. It seems a little silly to go that far for that job.
FlaglerLive: Just to be clear, Christy Chong and Will Furry were on one side, and Lauren Ramirez and Janie Ruddy were on the other side. But in fairness, they were a split board, so this situation might not have occurred had there been a fifth vote. Do you give at least some room for the fact that it was a split board?
Trevor Tucker: For sure, definitely. It definitely would not have happened if you had five. But at the same time, it just seems a little silly to me. I will also say, if you want to talk about other things that they didn’t do correctly, Will Furry, Sally Hunt, and Christy Chung spent over $15,000 for an audit on the strings program to find under $10 worth of errors. It wasn’t fraud or anything; it was just misplaced or not reported correctly. To me, that’s a terrible stewardship of taxpayer dollars. That’s also something that happens because it’s agenda-driven. That had nothing to do with the overall program of the school district.
FlaglerLive: Have there been other instances with broader implications on academics, on the way that the district has been run, or on policy that you think have not been what you would have done?
Trevor Tucker: Not off the top of my head. I’d have to go back and really look at things to say this was not good.
FlaglerLive: Where would you say they have excelled? Give a couple of examples.
Trevor Tucker: I would say they have let Ms. Moore move the district forward. They have let her work hard and do what she was hired to do, so I think they’ve done a really good job there. I’m not there and I’m not interacting with the superintendent, so I don’t know how much support they’re giving her. But I would say that they have given her enough support that she is moving the district forward.
FlaglerLive: That’s right. She has been a pretty effective superintendent, obviously. In some instances, she’s been sort of the leveling force on the board because of the board’s lack of experience. She’s been able to step in and sort of balance things out a bit. You personally, as a board member, how will you be affecting that dynamic? What will you bring to the board that will change what we have been experiencing?
Trevor Tucker: I will say the one thing that I think I did while I was on the board that helps is changing the meeting structure. I don’t know if you remember back, but whenever I was on the board, we used to have two meetings a month with a one-hour workshop beforehand. I changed that to workshopping things thoroughly beforehand. I really think that helps staff and it helps the board too, because we tabled a lot of things whenever we only had a one-hour workshop right before voting on it. We’d ask questions, and the staff wouldn’t have time to answer them.
Driving that forward and creating a board member manual, which we as a board did, helps the board because then you know how we operate. When I got on the board, there was no standard operation. There was no onboarding. There was nothing. I got appointed, and it was like [former Superintendent] Bill Delbrugge said, “Congratulations. Here’s the agenda. Be prepared to vote on it.” Whereas, if you have a board member manual, I think that helps the board. Then you know how to bring something forward and how to get it vetted by everyone. I think that’s a really helpful process so everyone knows where they stand, how to do things, and how to get things done.
FlaglerLive: Did I hear clearly that it was you who developed that method when you were chair? Did you do that, or was it a collective decision?
Trevor Tucker: Yes, I did that, and you gave me grief because you said I was lazy and only wanted one voting meeting a month.
FlaglerLive: This is what we reported.
Trevor Tucker: I see. That’s okay. All right.
FlaglerLive: I’ll look up the article and we’ll link it in the transcript of the interview. Right, but you do think that the way it works now with the agenda workshop and the information workshop ahead of the evening meeting is what you set up?
Trevor Tucker: Yes, I do think it works a lot better. But the board member manual—I don’t know if they’re currently using it or not. Whenever we developed that, my thought was every time you had a new board member, you would workshop the manual together and say, “Okay, I like this, I don’t like this,” and you would change it so that the board would agree to it. I don’t know if that’s happened since I haven’t been on the board.
FlaglerLive: I’m remembering now that what you eliminated was one of the evening meetings. There were two evening business meetings, correct? And there was not enough workshopping of what was before you at business meetings.
Trevor Tucker: Yes, right. A one-hour workshop before we’d vote on something was kind of a little silly.
FlaglerLive: That’s what Bunnell does. I don’t recall that they have more than five workshops a year, and they also have meetings that last about two minutes or so. I’m exaggerating, but they don’t really deliberate through their issues.
FlaglerLive: Now, regarding the YMCA: the YMCA has asked the district, as it has Palm Coast, for three million dollars from each government. Palm Coast has pledged and set aside three million dollars for the YMCA. The district has not yet agreed to this. At the last conversation, Ms. Moore was presenting a proposal in the form of a memorandum of understanding between the district, Palm Coast, and the Y, where Palm Coast and the district would own the pool at the YMCA in exchange for the three million dollars from the district. The district would own the pool with the city, not the rest of the YMCA. They would just own the pool, which would also give them authority in priority over who gets to use the pool and when, so that the athletes in the district have immediate access and an Olympic-sized pool to practice in. There was an interesting discussion on the board because some board members said they weren’t sure about this, and others said they were thinking of maybe building their own swimming pool. This was odd because they had just gone through the Beltair Swim and Racquet Club issue, where they closed it to the public and are still struggling with it. It’s still a commitment and a financial burden on the district, and the place is very old and requires a lot of maintenance, none of which would exist with the YMCA. So, my question, after all this rambling, is: Is the YMCA memorandum of understanding, as Ms. Moore sketched it out, something that you would support, including the three million dollar commitment, as opposed to a new swimming pool?
Trevor Tucker: There would be some questions I’d have to get answered first before I’d say definitely I’d want to commit to something like that. The first would be: can we use our capital tax dollars for that? Tax dollars are supposed to be used for K through 12, and I guess if you own the pool, you could probably say that’s a K through 12 facility. I’d want to clarify that first off. Second, if we own it, would we have to carry insurance on it? What’s the liability there? And third would be: can we afford it? It’s capital dollars. I do feel like the district has more capital dollars than general fund dollars. So if we had zero maintenance expense, which would be a great thing, and we had full use of it, I would probably be for that.
FlaglerLive: One of the ideas that Ms. Moore had mentioned was that you could sell part of or the entirety of the land at Old Corporate One, the land on Palm Coast Parkway that has been sitting there since your time on the board. In exchange, that would be the money that you would use for the YMCA or something similar. In other words, you could sell some assets you own now and transfer that to the YMCA, which would get around the problem of using restricted funds.
Trevor Tucker: Right, or tax dollars. That’s a good idea, especially because we have properties we’re never going to build on. Why are we keeping those properties if we’re never going to build on them? We should exchange them for larger properties. The 20 acres on the Intracoastal, I don’t see us ever building a school on that. There are 20 acres in front of Plantation Bay on US One. I think the school board policy requires a minimum of 30 acres for an elementary school and 40 acres for a middle or high school. If we have these parcels that are smaller, why do we have them?
FlaglerLive: Where do you stand on arming school personnel? Was there a discussion while you were on the board previously regarding the guardian program as a supplement, not replacing sheriff’s deputies, of course? Where are you on that?
Trevor Tucker: I’m not for it. I don’t think staff should have to go through that. I think security should be left to the sheriff’s department. I don’t want staff members carrying a firearm. No one has clarified the liability if the staff member messes up, or if the gun gets taken away from a staff member. Even though there would be training, I’m not for it. I want law enforcement to be the only folks on campus with guns.
FlaglerLive: Do you consider the current number of SRDs sufficient?
Trevor Tucker: It’s 13 still, or did they add more?
FlaglerLive: I think it’s 13 or 14. I think they’ve added a floater, and they also have one at the alternative school. So they have added a couple.
Trevor Tucker: Okay, I would say yes because no matter what, all these forces are reactionary. The school shooting in Texas—not the one where the door was left open, but the one after Sandy Hook—they had three deputies on the high school campus. It still doesn’t matter if you have 50 deputies; it is always going to be a reactionary force.
FlaglerLive: Well, then why have any deputies?
Trevor Tucker: Because it will be faster, and at least it’s a show of force. If the deputies had to respond from miles and miles away, that’s more time for something terrible to happen.
FlaglerLive: With the potential homestead amendment that could pass, the schools might be affected because inevitably there are interactions between local governments and the schools regarding Carver Center expenses and things of that sort that could affect your relationship and your finances. Right now, the county is assuming half the cost of the SRDs, and Palm Coast pays for one. The votes on the county commission currently support continuing that, but you never know how the commission’s finances will shake down if amendments pass. Let’s assume that they were to pull their funding. Would that not sort of force your hand with a program like the Guardians?
Trevor Tucker: It could if the district could not afford it. I feel like there would be other things we would want to look at cutting before you would ever get to cutting deputies. You may not have a floater or some of those top administrative people, but I would want deputies long before we would hire guardians.
FlaglerLive: Explain the IB and the Cambridge AICE program, and the role that they play in the two high schools’ annual grading profile.
Trevor Tucker: The IB and AICE programs are both high academic programs. They’re such high academic programs and are so renowned throughout the state of Florida that if you get an IB diploma or an AICE diploma, you automatically get Bright Futures. You don’t even have to take the SAT to get it. What more can you say about a program besides that they are really great?
FlaglerLive: If you pass them, in other words, if you earn the diploma.
Trevor Tucker: Yes. If you attend the classes and you don’t get the IB or AICE diploma, then you don’t automatically get the Bright Futures. But that’s saying a lot because the other way you get Bright Futures is through your GPA and SAT. These programs have such high performance standards that the state says if you pass these, it doesn’t matter what you get on your SAT. Whenever it comes to grading, like in the IB program, students take classes and then they take the AP or IB exams. You get acceleration points for both of those, which helps your school grades. Also, most of those students in those programs are never going to hurt your school grades with test scores or any of those things. In fact, they kind of prop them up.
FlaglerLive: They kind of use them to really prop up their school grades. I remember our children were pushed to make sure they were in there pushing up those grades.
Trevor Tucker: Yes, and the school district should push students to try their best at whatever they are capable of doing. I believe those programs help the school grades, they help the district, and it’s great because, like IB, my daughter said college was pretty easy after going through it.
FlaglerLive: Yes, right, and that’s still true. I have heard there is some pushback against the AICE program at Matanzas for some reason, at least from maybe a board member or two.
Trevor Tucker: I’m sorry, I don’t know what the pushback would be.
FlaglerLive: But you would preserve both those programs, which are costly. Even the legislature recently considered cutting back support for those programs, though that stopped short by the time they agreed to a budget and funding was restored. But if we see that again, and it comes down to a choice between funding either of those programs and an athletic program, what would you do?
Trevor Tucker: I would keep the academic programs. Sports are not required; academics are required, and these are the best academic programs that we offer.
FlaglerLive: Along those same lines, beyond advanced academics, what two programs can you think of that could be cut if there is an economic crisis? You went through one in 2012 and 2013.
Trevor Tucker: Yes, we did, but we didn’t cut any programs. We cut through attrition; people retired and we didn’t refill the positions, yet grades went up. It amazed me. So it’s not necessarily how many people you have; it’s how well they do their jobs. Just as a side note.
I would really have to look at the programs to see which ones were the least utilized. That’s probably how I would determine what would be cut: the least utilized programs, and I don’t know what that is currently. If you have programs that are filled with students, you shouldn’t try to cut those. I think evaluating that should just be a regular practice anyway. If you have electives where the classes aren’t being filled very well, like if we still had typing—I know we don’t, but if you still had typing, that would probably need to be cut and replaced with something else.
FlaglerLive: Well, we do have that situation, unfortunately, with advanced academics like IB. I don’t know about AICE, but I do know IB classes tend to be very small. Of course, the benefit is high, but the classes can be very small. So now you face a dilemma: if there are so few students benefiting from this, how do you justify it?
Trevor Tucker: Those teachers who are teaching those programs are also teaching other courses. If they teach English, they’re teaching IB English and they may be teaching another program as well. AP is also expensive, but I think AP, IB, and any of these high academic programs have to be preserved, period. I can’t think of any reason to ever get rid of them. We’re there to academically educate children first; that has to be the first priority. Sports, art, music—I hate to say it, but those are secondary.
But I would want to preserve those too because if you get rid of them, then you have no reason for some students to even come to school. Some students come to school because of art, music, and athletics, and that makes a well-rounded individual. I hope never to have to cut any programs that actually affect students. I feel like you could cut some administration or other non-required positions long before you get to actual programs.
FlaglerLive: Let’s talk about the district’s population as opposed to the county’s population. The county’s population since 2007 has increased 50%. That was the year when the fertility rates started declining in the United States, but it was also the year that Flagler County Schools flattened out after many years of rapid growth. It just stalled and has continued to stall since, and in the last year or so, there has actually been a slightly pronounced decline. It hasn’t really substantially grown since, and there is a fear that it might decline further.
This stall took place starting 20 years ago, well before the universal voucher system went into effect in 2023, which says something about the public school system. It’s not as if school-age children didn’t keep coming to the district; they have, but they’ve chosen to go elsewhere, and that occurred over the period that you were on the board for many years. How do you explain that, and now that it’s accelerating, what are you going to do about it?
Trevor Tucker: I believe part of the reason is students have more choices with schools. In 2007, I think there was probably only 1 private school here, and that was only for elementary to middle school, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton. I don’t think there were any other private schools here at that time. Now we’ve had a large growth in private schools, so parents have more options than they did in the past. We were flat before the vouchers, but we usually didn’t lose very many students. I guess they said the district lost roughly 300 net students last year.
FlaglerLive: That’s the net loss, yes. There were about 1,900 close to 2,000 students overall who are in the voucher program, but the net loss that the school district attributed specifically to vouchers was around 300.
Trevor Tucker: Yes. So, you know, I’m all for parents’ choice. The only thing I would say is I want accountability with the vouchers. If the state is saying these are the standards I wish you to teach, then those same standards should be applied to vouchers. A student should have to take the same tests that the public school district is taking. Even if the results are completely different, if that child comes back to public school, the district really needs to know where these children are at. If they are behind, they may be behind because they’re being taught a completely different curriculum. It may be a quality curriculum that they enjoy, but it might not match the state standards. We need to know where those students are at in case they come back to our schools. A lot of these students come back for high school because their parents want them to have sports, or their parents may not be able to teach the higher-level math or English. If that child is behind through no fault of their own, that costs the taxpayer money because now we have to remediate for that student. To me, we should be able to know where these students are if they’re taking state dollars.
FlaglerLive: Do you think that students should be subsidized to go to private school with public dollars? I know that ship has sailed and we’re doing that, but I’m asking you philosophically: if it was up to you, would you reverse that if you had the chance?
Trevor Tucker: As long as they have to be accountable and take the same state test, that’s my biggest thing. We need accountability. If you take state dollars, take the state tests. That’s it.
FlaglerLive: Would you apply the same standard to homeschool students who also benefit from the vouchers?
Trevor Tucker: Yes. 100%. And I’m not even saying they have to pass; they just have to take the test so that everyone knows where everyone is at. These are tax dollars. The school district has these state exams and a high school diploma requirement saying you have to reach these standards because the state wants accountability.
FlaglerLive: Do you see the district in competition with private schools and homeschooling?
Trevor Tucker: Yes and no. Yes, because everyone wants the funding, but I don’t think that’s how it should be. I think it should be about what we are doing that’s best for students and parents. So if a parent wants their child to go to a private school for whatever reason, I’m okay with them taking the dollars. I just want them to take the state exam at the end of the year, and it shouldn’t be a bitter competition. It really shouldn’t be.
FlaglerLive: What other ideas might you bring to the board to improve the district’s attraction to students who might be inclined to leave or stay away?
Trevor Tucker: I really think that the district should show all the options that students have whenever they’re in school. There are different tracks and programs a student can take, along with after-school programs. Most parents or private schools can’t provide all of those options. If you can showcase what we can do and invite them to come see us, I think that’s a good selling point for the school district. Most parents who are homeschooling or have their children in private school have not actually been to the public schools here.
FlaglerLive: The Army, the Air Force, the Marines—they all have these snazzy ads to recruit and market. Why isn’t the district doing that?
Trevor Tucker: That I couldn’t tell you. I do not know why the district isn’t doing it. Maybe they are and I haven’t seen it.
FlaglerLive: Well, if we haven’t seen it, it’s not very visible. But would you be supportive of something like this, even though it would entail spending tax dollars, to send the message that the district can do things better than others in those regards? Would you be supportive of messaging that in advertising campaigns on TV or the radio?
Trevor Tucker: Yes, as long as it would not negatively impact current funding. It depends on where our fund balances are, how much money we have, and whether it would impact any student programs.
A rating v. national standards
FlaglerLive: Okay, so the district is now A-rated again. Was it during your tenure on the board? Did you have A grades?
Trevor Tucker: Yes, though I couldn’t tell you exactly which years.
FlaglerLive: I know Delbrugge had a streak of A’s, and you were part of the end of the Delbrugge era, right? And then there was Jim Tager, who got an A at one point while you were on the board. Otherwise, it was just a B. But Janie Ruddy, the school board member, noted after congratulating the district that her attention is on raising our standards to national standards, which are not Florida standards. Compared to national standards, Florida’s and Flagler County’s are pretty low. In other words, the standards that Flagler should be aiming for and exceeding are the national standards, not just the Florida standards. What do you think about that?
Trevor Tucker: I’m just curious what those look like. For example, the SAT, the ACT, and the national report card.
FlaglerLive: On all of those nationally normed standards, Florida and Flagler rank pretty low.
Trevor Tucker: It depends on which one of those reports you look at because per-student funding we’re very low, but some reports put us pretty high on academics. The SAT is a terrible measure because in Florida almost every student takes the SAT, whereas in other states, only the students going to college take it. When it is free versus when students have to pay for it, it makes it hard to compare the two states. If you only have your college-bound students taking the SAT in New Jersey, and every student in Florida is taking it, it’s hard to compare the scores. I don’t like it whenever they compare SAT scores, for sure. There’s also the ACT and the national report card. I haven’t seen the national report card lately. If our standards are not meeting those benchmarks, then yes, I’m all about raising those standards. We need to be able to compete nationally, not just within Florida.
FlaglerLive: And how do you get there? How do you get a system that is completely focused on Florida standards to also pay attention to standards beyond Florida?
Trevor Tucker: We can always make the Florida standards the absolute minimum and then raise our district standards higher than that for graduation and coursework.
FlaglerLive: Because you’re not even at the top of Florida in Flagler County.
Trevor Tucker: No, we’re not, and we need to get there. But I think part of that is going to take a superintendent being here for more than three or four years. During my tenure, every time we would get gains and then get a new superintendent, the scores would drop, then we’d get gains again and they’d drop.
FlaglerLive: Speaking of that, how do you keep a superintendent like Lashakia Moore, who could write her ticket to go anywhere for a lot more money, and who likely will when her children are grown? How would you keep a superintendent like her here?
Trevor Tucker: I think you have to provide them with higher pay. That’s usually the biggest motivating factor for why superintendents leave. Also, it needs to be a quality work environment. They shouldn’t have to worry about their job at every single board meeting or worry about what’s going to happen. Supporting that superintendent so they can do what’s best for our students is extremely important.
FlaglerLive: What are your thoughts on diversity and equity? The state has banned DEI initiatives, but what does that mean to you? We still prize diversity and equity in schools, and some of our federal programs like Title I and Title IX are predicated on equity. Yet, the state has banned DEI, including equity initiatives. How do you square the two, and what do you think about those initiatives?
Trevor Tucker: I think Title I is definitely essential. If a student comes to school and doesn’t have food or the basic needs to survive, how in the world can they possibly learn? So I think Title I is a great program because it helps students with more than just academics.
Regarding Title IX, females should have the right to play sports; it shouldn’t just be everybody lumped together. My son plays soccer and my daughter plays soccer. My daughter could not play for the Flagler Palm Coast varsity men’s team because if you lumped all those players together, there would be very few females who would ever make the team, and that’s not fair. I believe in that protection.
We need diversity; you need different backgrounds and different people around from every walk of life. That’s the United States. We’re not all one religion, one ethnicity, or one thought, and we shouldn’t be. That’s what makes the United States great. But with that equity, I don’t think you want equal outcomes; I think what you want is an equal playing field for all students. Every student who comes to school should have the same ability and rights to move forward.
It is up to that individual student based on how hard they work and how hard they try to see how far they can go. I think quite often students and parents think, “Oh, my child’s not that bright; they can’t get ahead.” That’s not true. I’ve seen people who may not be the brightest individuals in the world, but they work really hard. If you work hard enough, you can achieve almost anything. It may take you 12 hours to do the same homework that takes someone else 30 minutes, but if you master it, you both mastered the exact same thing. It should be about equal opportunities, not forced equal outcomes.
FlaglerLive: On whose side would you have voted in the Supreme Court decision on transgender athletes?
Trevor Tucker: I believe that for sports, it should be divided by biological male and female, based on whatever you were born biologically. It’s definitely not fair if you have a biological male competing in female sports, like the transgender swimmer who was mediocre competing against men but then won against women. I don’t think that’s fair. That throws Title IX right out the window whenever you allow that.
FlaglerLive: So you’re okay with the decision that basically allows states to prohibit female transgender athletes from participating in female sports.
Trevor Tucker: Yes.
FlaglerLive: What do you do beyond the ban to provide some sporting activities to transgender athletes? Do you just say, “Well, tough luck”?
Trevor Tucker: Not every child makes the team anyway; only the best do. Every year children try out, and if you aren’t good enough for whatever biological sport you’re playing, then you don’t make the team, and I’m okay with that.
FlaglerLive: But where can a transgender female even try out anymore?
Trevor Tucker: Why couldn’t they? A transgender female’s biology is male, so they would be trying out for the biologically male team. That’s what I would say.
FlaglerLive: I see. None of this has been fully worked out, and I think one of the justices made a good point in the dissent stating that we’re still thinking through a lot of these issues. The decision sort of blunts the ability for those questions to be worked out because it isn’t black and white, and the door shouldn’t be closed just with a legal decision. The point of the dissent was that we should have crafted some means of moving toward a more equitable system where we don’t have to wonder how to handle every unique situation so that the outcome is fair to the athletes, but we’re not there yet.
Trevor Tucker: We may never get there. I don’t have all the answers.
Funding loss from U.S. Department of Education
FlaglerLive: The federal Department of Education is providing about a million dollars to the school district out of a general fund budget of about 163 million dollars. This past year, there were a few weeks when the district had to scramble to make up for the money it was delayed in receiving from the federal government. If that federal funding goes away entirely, how do you make up for it and preserve those equity programs?
Trevor Tucker: That would be really hard. You would have to ask the state if they are going to make up the difference, or if the federal government is going to require those programs to still exist. The worst thing would be if they cut off the funding but still required the programs, because then most school districts will just have to scrap whatever they were doing. It’s really hard because I don’t know where the funding would come from. You definitely want to preserve a lot of those programs like Title I because I can’t imagine not feeding children who need to be fed; that would have to continue no matter what if I was on the board.
I would like to see what the breakdown would be regarding what they would require and what they aren’t requiring. If the federal government closes that department, are they going to require all their federal laws to be adhered to, and how are they going to monitor it? Right now they push it down to the state to monitor. If the state’s not getting money, are they going to walk away and stop monitoring it? This would be a very large problem throughout the United States if the federal government stops funding federal programs for schools.
FlaglerLive: And yet that department faces calls to be dismantled.
Trevor Tucker: Are they going to hand the money directly to the states, and have the states monitor the federal laws? Realistically, everything flows through the state from the federal government anyway, and they take an administrative fee on everything. Will the states continue to receive those funds, or will they just be gone? That’s really going to be the question. If the states don’t receive the funds, are they then not going to require any of these programs? I don’t have the answer to this, unfortunately.
FlaglerLive: If we could talk about religion just a little bit in schools, it’s possible that eventually the 1962 decision outlawing prayer in schools will be challenged again. Let’s assume that it is in the next four years while you are a school board member, and you get the chance to write an amicus brief to say this is how I think you should rule. What would you say?
Trevor Tucker: I would say we need to allow a student to perform whatever religion they have, but the whole idea of this is that you’re not forcing your religion onto someone else who doesn’t believe the same thing. If you have a prayer that favors one religion over another, you have to keep that out of schools. Schools need to be a safe place where people don’t feel like they have to participate in a prayer or participate in someone else’s beliefs or religion. A student should have the right to practice whatever religion they want, but during academic times and teaching, that should not occur. If you’re at lunch and you wish to pray before you eat, feel free. But you shouldn’t force the person beside you to also pray before they eat. I don’t want someone else to tell me what religion I have to practice or learn, because that’s not what school is for. School is for academics, not religious purposes. In many places in the world where schools are only taught by religious groups, they teach that their religion is the only way and everyone else is wrong, and then you end up having conflict because groups were taught that way. That’s not healthy for a society with multiple religions. Does that make sense?
FlaglerLive: Yes, of course. But you were on the board when there was that surprise prayer before a board meeting one evening, and I’m not so sure that you had been told about it. What do you remember about that, what was your reaction, how did that come about, and what if it happens again?
Trevor Tucker: I think that’s why you need to have that board manual I tried to create, so you don’t have those surprises. I don’t want that to occur. If an individual wishes to pray before a meeting, feel free to pray, but don’t subject everyone else to your religion or your prayer. Inviting someone to perform a specific prayer before a meeting might conflict with someone else’s religion. Even though I’m a Christian, there are probably 100 different varieties of Christians or more. I would want to discuss it with whichever board member brought it forward, but if you have that board manual, then no one is surprised. Everyone understands what’s expected because you’ve all worked it out beforehand.
FlaglerLive: The final question is about your legal background. Have you had a felony or a misdemeanor anywhere in the state or county, other than a speeding ticket, or faced any civil actions or bankruptcies? Nothing of that sort? Nobody’s ever sued the business?
Trevor Tucker: They sued my insurance company for an auto accident.
FlaglerLive: Through the business, you mean?
Trevor Tucker: Yes, through the business, but not me personally. A vehicle got into a wreck. But no, me personally, no.
FlaglerLive: And then any professional board sanctions of any sort, associations, or boards where you might have had disciplinary actions? Very good. All right. Well, that does conclude the list of questions, so I appreciate very much the time you took and the patience you had.
Trevor Tucker: No problem. Was I shorter than everybody else? That’s my goal.
FlaglerLive: I think at this point you are the second shortest from what I see. Shorter than me, yes.
Trevor Tucker: Very good.
FlaglerLive: Let me thank you and conclude the interview at this point.
Justbob says
Good interview…bring him back,