It started as an eviction case. It ended as a First Amendment case. The First Amendment won. Flagler County government lost.
After deliberating 90 minutes Tuesday, a jury of four men an two women found that Flagler County had improperly sought to evict a tenant from a hangar at the county airport, and was doing so only in retaliation for the tenant’s criticism of Roy Sieger, the airport director, violating the tenant’s First Amendment rights.
It was a remarkable case on several levels: It invalidated the county’s eviction. It tied back into a controversy over the airport advisory board that the county arbitrarily disbanded in 2020, when the advisory board was raising issues of noise and overspending at the airport. It validated by jury verdict allegations of imperiousness on the part of the airport director. And it did so in a County Court trial, when First Amendment cases are usually handled in federal or circuit court.
The county filed its eviction suit at the end of January, thinking that’s all it would be. But that turned out to be a culmination of long-simmering animus between Sieger and Les Abend, the tenant.
“Revenge is a dish best served cold,” Dennis Bayer, Abend’s attorney, told the jury, arguing that Sieger was essentially taking his revenge on Abend with the eviction, more than two years after their previous clashes. The jury agreed.
Sieger, a county employee, is the director of Flagler Executive Airport–still more colloquially known, to his chagrin, as Flagler County Airport.
Abend is a licensed pilot for 49 years and a flight instructor who’s flown everything from gliders to the Boeing 777. He writes for various aviation journals and is an on-air analyst on aviation on various media, including CNN, NBC, MSNBC and FOX. He served on then briefly chaired the Flagler County Airport Advisory Board. He’d been renting a hangar at the county airport for his blue and white Piper Arrow plane for $321 a month since March 2018.
Tensions began to rise between the advisory board and Sieger not long after that. Then board members took their complaints to the County Commission, openly criticizing Sieger there as authoritarian and dismissive of their recommendations, especially on noise issues that neighbors wanted addressed. They subsequently criticized him for building what they considered to be an unnecessary “Taj Mahal” of a terminal in an airport that doesn’t have the traffic to support it. Sieger has always advocated for a terminal in an airport without one.
On Sept. 9, 2020, the County Commission didn’t think it needed the board’s advice anymore. It disbanded it. Abend saw Sieger’s fingerprints on the move. The county would later argue that Sieger had no authority to disband the advisory board, that it was entirely the purview of the County Commission. On paper, that’s true. In reality, the county’s claim is somewhat disingenuous: Sieger has always wielded authoritative control of the airport, with the administration’s blessing. “I and the commissioners have full confidence in Mr. Sieger’s operation of the Airport,” Petito wrote Abend last December. “I don’t typically involve myself in his daily affairs or any other department heads for that matter.” Commissioners were barely involved in the scrapping of the advisory board, and only on a ratifying basis when it voted to have it disbanded at the urging of then-Administrator Jerry Cameron.
A year passed. On Sept. 26, 2022, the county declared a state of emergency ahead of Hurricane Ian. Three days later, some 1,500 utility workers, contractors and others associated with recovery efforts staged at the airport in what “amounted to an instant makeshift city, including sleeping quarters, dining and showering facilities, in addition to trucks, heavy equipment and fueling stations,” in the county’s description.
The storm had left 46,000 customers, or 70 percent of the county’s population, without power. Some 2.1 million customers lost power across the state. But the airport had not closed: planes were still landing and taking off, “as shown in the flight logs for the relevant period of time,” court papers note. Two schools were continuing their flight lessons. Paying tenants had a harder time. One pilot complained to the Airplane Owners Pilot Association about difficulties accessing hangars. (The county claims the association found its handling of the emergency to have been “superb.”)
Abend had for six months planned to fly his plane to a wedding around that time. Hurricane Ian cleared the area the night of Sept. 29. The next day, two days ahead of Abend’s planned trip, he went to the airport to prepare. He noticed a few vehicles in the way, and had a “friendly” conversation with an FPL official, who said the vehicles would be moved by the time he needed to fly 48 hours later. Abend also texted and emailed Sieger, summarizing the conversation with the FPL official.
Sieger never responded (he would later claim that he’d been texted to his personal phone), though 24 hours later, Sieger emailed all tenants, asking them not to fly if they could help it, but that it would be arranged if they needed to. “Do not attempt to taxi your aircraft without assistance from airport personnel and do not interfere with the emergency response crews working on the field,” he wrote. In fact, emergency crews were not working on the field, only staging, or parking, their equipment there while they rested and waited for dispatching orders, as even pictures distributed by the county illustrated. The county at the time boasted about its role as a host of the big operation.
Nine weeks later, Sieger terminated Abend’s lease, giving him until last Jan. 13 to leave.
Abend was floored. He asked why, taking up the matter with Petito, who told him no reason need be given. Abend smelled something fishy, like that dish his attorney would later mention to the jury. He retained Dennis Bayer, the Flagler Beach attorney, and informed the county that he would contest the eviction.
“Sieger has shown a propensity to not accept and to resent any recommendations for airport operations from third parties, including the duly appointed volunteer advisory board,” Abend would argue in court, through his attorney. “Sieger has engaged in actions towards Abend that could be deemed hostile and retaliatory. Sieger has advised third parties that he thought Abend was seeking to have Sieger fired by the County.”
Assistant County Attorney Sean Moylan handled the case for the county. (He could not be reached before this article initially published.) The county “categorically” denied that Sieger was hostile or retaliatory, and reasserted the language of the lease: “Nothing in the lease agreement provides for a challenge to the 30-day termination, much less to do so by wrongfully retaining possession of public property,” Moylan wrote Bayer. “Mr. Abend’s indication of his intent to breach the agreement and follow whatever unwritten terms he unilaterally conjures demonstrates a haughty disdain for the Airport and for fair dealing.”
Bayer filed a motion to dismiss, arguing that the county should have stated a cause of action more precise than the “vague” allegations that Abend had interfered with workers at the airport. The county countered that it didn’t have to give an explanation, since the lease language gave either side the right to end the month-to-month arrangement with 30 days’ notice, and without further rationales. County Judge Andrea Totten denied the motion.
The county is right so far as the lease language goes: it didn’t have to give a reason. But it admitted that in the entire history of the airport, it had never unilaterally terminated a lease for no cause. And its retaliatory actions were not veiled: it doubled the rent on Abend.
“The County’s decision to terminate cannot be exercised in a manner that is either retaliatory, discriminatory, or unlawful,” Bayer argued. “In this instance, the termination is retaliatory and discriminatory towards [Abend] based upon Abend’s lawful exercise of his First Amendment right of free speech. … When combined with the way that [Sieger] eliminated the advisory board due, in large part to Abend’s advocacy, the termination here was taken for purposes of retaliation against Abend’s exercise of free speech. ”
Disarmed by its own history–that lack of evictions without cause–the county emphasized Abend’s interaction with the FPL official, characterizing it as interfering with the emergency. Abend called it a “fabrication,” and an attempt by the county to back-fill a reason to evict him.
While the airport had restricted access to tenants like Abend, a restriction that violate their lease, Bayer argued, tenants still flew their planes but did not see their leases questioned or terminated.
“My argument to them was why–why was my client selected to be the first to be treated this way,” Bayer said. “And the evidence pointed to being retaliation for his criticism of how Mr. Sieger was operating the airport.” The county tried to make it sound like it was a result of interfering with operations after storm, but Abend testified that he followed all the protocols established by the county. The connection with that history over the advisory board was unavoidable.
The jury in the two-day civil trial before Judge Totten had to answer two questions: “Did the Plaintiff, Flagler County, properly terminate [Abend’s] hangar lease?” The jury said No. (The case was actually against Abend’s company, Pen and Pilot, but he and his wife are the only principals.)
“Did the Plaintiff, Flagler County, improperly terminate the lease with [Abend] in retaliation for [Abend] exercising [his] right to free speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution?” The jury said yes.
Sieger, Petito and Charles Weaver, the FPL manager who’d handled the staging, testified for the county. Abend and Daryl Hickman, a former chairman of the airport advisory board, testified in defense.
Abend gets to keep his lease at the hangar (the county has 130 people on its waiting list for hangar space). But the terms are unclear.
“Certainly I won this for me, but in a way I won this for all the other tenants,” Abend said today, though he remains dismayed over the way the county handled, then ignored, then disbanded the advisory board even as the same issues of concern then continue today, not least among them noise.
“It’s just a shame the county didn’t take the advice of numerous people with numerous backgrounds that were trying to make the airport better, and they were doing it without compensation,” Abend said. All they were trying to do is “make the airport better and to make Roy Sieger look good, but it just fell on deaf ears. Two years went by and Roy found a reason to get rid of me, and the jury agreed.”
Thomas Hutson says
Airport, Retaliation
This is another example of the level of leadership and management within Flagler County Government. Voters in Flagler County elected County Commissioners to represent them and to act as “THEIR” Voice. This would include our business partners, and citizens of Flagler County.
This would also include the proper supervision of the County Manager, County Attorney and “ALL” contracts within Flagler County Commission authority. The Flagler County Airport Director does not and should not have the “FINAL” say in the operations of the Flagler County Airport. To my knowledge he is an “EMPLOYEE” of Flagler County!
“IF” these charges against Mr. Sieger are “TRUE” and they are “TRUE” per the court’s decision; then the County needs to apologize to Mr. Les Abend for their lack of management oversight in this case. Mr. Sieger for his conduct and lack of management skills should be terminated, or at the very least removed from any supervisory position at the Flagler County Airport!
The Flagler County Commission should also conduct a complete review of the actions or inactions of the County Manager and the County Attorney regarding this case. If they are found wanting, appropriate actions should be taken against them. Corrective action to ensure this type incident does not occur again!
Flagler County has a history of this kind of management and leadership. Flagler County “VOTERS” have allowed this culture to exist and it needs to be changed! And that time is coming!
Deborah Coffey says
Authoritarianism at all levels of today’s GOP. Flagler voters need to LEARN how to vote for their own best interests or they will continue to get exactly what they deserve and, they won’t like it. But, good for Mr. Abend and the jury! It’s a win for all of us even though the Flagler County Commission will learn nothing from it.
Old Guy says
The county needs to establish a new airport advisory board and their recommendations need to go to more officials than just the airport director. Otherwise what’s the point?
Concerned resident says
Comment appreciated . Cameron said in a Airport Advisory Board meeting back in
February of 2020 when Cameron disbanded the Airport Advisory Committee , he’ll
ask county commission to direct County Attorney Al Hadeed to review and rewrite the
bylaws. “The board has to instruct him. I see no problem with that, and I see no problem
with him getting an informal head start,” Cameron said of Hadeed. What happened with this???
Someone should be asking this question to the commissioners and to Hadeed. In fact there was
a meeting going back months ago where Petito wanted to strike the Airport Advisory Committee
completely of the record as one of the agendas at a meeting. They don’t want transparency so that
they can carry on with their sneaky antics.
Flight Student says
I’m glad they struck down the committee.
They claim that the airplanes are causing their internet to go out… like what?!?
The flight schools in Daytona beach are full of international students, who are mainly brown.
The flight advisory committee have made it clear, they don’t like brown people in the sky above their houses.
Someone dismantle that?
CELIA PUGLIESE says
As usual when some loose the argument bring out the race card! Palm Coast is the most inclusive and diverse community for any ethnic, religious or cultural groups anywhere in Florida!
We are just fighting these nuisance, arrogant flight schools refusing to respect and abide by this airport fake Fly Friendly policy not enforced! This arrogance will lead to a final choice by the people at the ballot box to end this abuse and extreme decisions as no other choice left. You need to stop the innuendos regarding the elderly of Palm Coast and your crass insults! For a student you lack civility! So I have my doubts you are one, but instead one more of the henchmen/women in government sustained by the very hard earned taxes of the one’s you insult!
Concerned resident says
Flight Student: What in the world are you talking about??? There is no
advisory committee it was disbanded in 2020 and that committee had
different races and nationalities on it, I never heard about the internet
argument and I myself happen to have met some of the flight school
students who are very endearing, they need to be in a safe environment
as well, it’s not only about our safety on the ground, this is about the
students safety as well, you see this is the end results of years of
poor county decision making poor county oversight, weak
irresponsible county administrators and a power hungry , arrogant
greedy,chip on the shoulder airport manager.
we all lose in the end.
Concerned resident says
Flight Student: OK so let’s now take a walk down memory lane and revisit
what you are referring to. Some years back a previous commissioner lived in
a affluent section of Palm Coast where his community got a petition together
to not have flight school planes fly over their community and presented it at
a meeting the with the FCBOCC, and won! Are those the people you are referring
to because its certainly not our community which is very diverse and gets taken
advantage of. We have the minutes from the Airport Board meeting where
Sieger was asked by a stakeholder if he took care of “that” situation and Sieger
said yes, thank you for jarring our memories as this is a very important point
to show residents how the politics roll around here.
Jane Gentile-Youd says
Bravo Les
Bravo Dennis
God Bless the First Amendment and our court for ruling on that basis.
Way past time to fire Petito,Sieger and Hadeed
TR says
Glad Mr. Abend won his case, it was justified by his piers in court. Finally someone had to pay for his bad actions.
The voice of reason says
Roi seiger is an arrogant piece of crap. It’s a shame the county puts him on a pedestal. He deserves to be fired long ago. He has shown nothing but disrespect to the airport neighbors by making zero effort to enact noise abatement. He must be in the pocket of the numerous flight schools that run amuck 24/7/365. 90% of the airport traffic comes from Daytona. Besides noise, these crappy old flight school planes spew leaded fuel exhaust comparable to flint Michigan. Children especially but adults are harmed by this exhaust. There’s a reason leaded fuel was outlawed in cars long ago. There is no safe level of lead. Greedy flights schools and their cheerleader, roi seiger need to be shut down. Close the airport asap.make it a business park and create jobs. Commissioners, do your job. Take care of residents first. Quit crapping on us!
jake says
I agree with you regarding Mr. Sieger and his arrogant management style. However the airport has been around a long time, as most airports, and does exactly what it was designed to do. “Most of the flying at local airports is by piston aircraft in support of business and personal needs. These airports typically accommodate flight training, emergency services, and charter passenger service.” People complaining about noise and air pollution from aircrafts, have only themselves to blame, having moved close to an airport decades after it was built.
“What is the history of Flagler County airport? The airfield was originally constructed by the United States Navy during World War II as Naval Outlying Field Bunnell (NOLF Bunnell), an auxiliary airfield for flight training operations originating from nearby Naval Air Station Jacksonville, NAS Daytona Beach and NAS DeLand.”
Gina Weiss says
jake: FYI some Quail Hollow demographics: In 1939 before the airport was built there were 127 homes built in Quail Hollow before the building of the airport. In 1942 the airport was built as they were many
in small communities because we were in a war and we needed to train our soldiers, this was
MILITARY TRAINING and NOT training for thousands of flight schools who operate businesses
over our homes at 300, 400, 500 feet and make a profit at the expense of our health and safety. Stop
hijacking the conversation and blaming the residents when all we and Mr Abend were trying to do
was to make it alittle better for our quality of life to make Sieger look good. Reread the article, fact
is the county lost since things were not done the right way and Sieger trying to take away Mr. Abends
1st amendment rights with retaliation, THIS IS WHAT THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT!
Flight Student says
Jake, these people are retired crazies. They used the airport advisory committee to feel like they are doing important things.
Honest conversation is not what they want, they want want this community to die with them.
Concerned resident says
Flight student: your comments have no basis in reality, you speak cheap tongue
and cheek comments calling people names, demeaning people that’s all you have
in your arsenal, intelligent conversations cannot be held with you and your infantile
banter, in fact what we are trying to do is quite the opposite of your ridiculous comments.
You flight school students want to run amuck in our communities like outlaws, buzzing
peoples homes, stalking people on social media and why is this? This is due to the climate
and the atmosphere that the airport director has been fostering for years at this airport,
proof is what he tried to do to Les Abend but did not accomplish his arrogant , divisive
goals. A business is only as good as its leaders and he should be fostering good feelings
between our community and the airport people but he thinks that he is too above and
behaves like he can do whatever he wants on his own separate island in his own
little world of aviation and he as well as you couldn’t care less about our communities
safety and well being, fact is we don’t want to die and we want to protect our families
and communities from disasters like you, stop pulling the race card when you have no
further arguments especially since our community that you mostly take advantage
of is right next to the airport and is very diverse.
Dorinne says
Flight Student, the issue of training the worlds pilots over American’s homes and lives is more of a race issue than you give credit for. All too often the American’s who are most substantially impacted and harmed from aviation noise and pollution are usually Environmental Justice communites, if you even know what that means. American’s, especially EJ communities have their schools, wildlife and lived environments saturated in general aviations neurotoxic lead and heart stopping decibels as well as great increases in CO2 and many other life altering and ending pollutants. If you cared about disenfranchised “brown people,” you too would be fighting for their environment, as well as their education, cognitive development and physical and mental wellbeing, which is being greatly harmed by abusive and dismissive aviation activity.
Then we have the issue of National Security, which Florida aviation should be intimately familiar with, considering the role it took 20 years ago.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-limits-exports-flight-schools-others-training-chinese-military-pilots-2023-06-12/
Florida is listed in this
https://www.oregonaviationwatch.org/articles/OAW-ChinaPilotTraining.php
We cannot pretend the only hostile countries are of predominately “brown” ethnicity. We also have citizens from hostile countries, like Russia, training over our communities and living here on visa’s while attending flight schools, building aircraft, avionics and learning aviation trades, with full access to our landmarks, maps, sky’s and communities.
Hostile countries and “brown people” are not synomous.
Security issue’s are compounded when flight schools and pilots show such blatant disregard for citizen health and safety that one cannot delineate whether the abusive, at times retaliatory, flight activity is occuring on behalf of a hostile country or an abusive and retaliatory aviation company or pilot.
THIS is NOT a race issue and it is deeply concerning. To turn a blind eye to this legitimate concern shows a lack of exposure to the realities of war and world powers. We, in America, have generations of people who’ve never witnessed war. As humans we have a very difficult time believing anything we have not personally experienced. Have we become dangerously complacent in trusting that we are safe from hostile countries, their intelligence and their intent?
It says much that the average citizen or person studying the problem cannot tell the difference between hostile and selfish aviation agenda’s and hostile countries potentially stirring dissent and toxins.
I’ll close by reiterating that if you want to show your concern for “brown people” protect them from aviation’s life altering and ending, nerotoxic, crazy making pollutant load and stop gaslighting them when they speak up of their suffering.
Gina says
Dorinne: excellent rebuttal, an intelligent, meaningful conversation
educating some of the the ill-informed, uninformed and misguided
aviation community, the FCBOCC, county administrator and other
officials who have turned a blind eye or whom our voices have fallen
upon deaf ears. Thank you!
Gary says
Well Jake, who exactly warned the people about the lead emissions of which Flagler is in the top 20 in the US? Was it you?
palmcoaster says
Jake can you grasp that the airport is never a problem, just the flight training schools are! I learned that a resident believes got an ear drum blown over a roaring low flying aircraft by the house. Appointment for medical treatment is being set up. So lets see what the MD will find out!
CELIA PUGLIESE says
Thank you FlaglerLive for your realistic, factual and revealing report!! This proves that the Flagler Worldwide Pilot Training Field Airport Director Mr. Sieger, is not to be trusted, given his distinctive arrogance that promoted ostentatiously told Palm Coast City council and Mayor on the 10/11 meeting ” Whether you like it or not the airport expansion will be completed!” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upQVwPZ_aJE While council and mayor never infer anything against the airport expansion but only questioning about the pilot schools activities on it. I know many executive aircraft owners that have hangar rental at this airport that are inconvenienced also by the pilot schools training on it. This court case proves and also uncovers the real reasons why the airport advisory board was disbanded in 2020 because among other things they wanted to help the many complaining residents regarding noise, danger and also lead contamination by the avgas only fuel used by the training small aircraft practicing over Palm Coast. For the first time ever Palm Coast officials summoned the Airport Director Mr. Sieger to present the airport schools activities to them. given the many complaints from residents. In the meeting Mr Sieger complained that residents Gina and Celia sent FAA inspectors to his airport. Well someone has to hear our misery. The airport was never a problem for the residents of Palm, Coast but the invited pilot schools are our problem only since mid 2,000’s. All our homes were built way before 2,000’s. Great report FlaglerLive! 2024 is arriving soon and new elected officials that will see our need to stop basin pilot training schools in Flagler county airport.
The dude says
I wish I could share your optimism for 2024.
As far as I can see, looks like 2024 will be like 2022, 2020, 2018, 2018, etc…
The same tired cast of clowns shuffling amongst the county and city seats on the commissions and boards in a game of dysfunctional musical chairs. Provided for you by the MAGA tribals that inhabit the area.
Greg says
Good for him. I hope the county has to pay his legal fees too. The city and county are run like a clown show.
Racist rons golf simulator says
vote for clowns get a circus, goes from flager to the house of representatives. Every gop held state has severly gerrymandered maps that when brought to the courts are often overturned but the process takes many years and span many election cycles if at all.
Revenge and sabatoge is all republicans have. spewing hate keeps the base fired up and distracted from those “woke” inconvienant facts or truths. Now pull yourself up from your bootstraps and get some overtime cause the 3 people that have more money than 200,000,000 people combined need a new yacht to get to their private tax free island.
Are you kidding ? says
I guess that’s goodbye , Roy ?
I wonder how many millions this will cost the county ?
But that’s what the county does continually paying out for one administrative disaster after another.
FlaglerLive says
The county is only required to pay court costs, not the prevailing party’s attorney’s fees, and there are no punitive damages.
jake says
It seems to me that every ass in America has moved to Flagler County, and becomes involved in the county government, or one of it’s departments. Mr. Sieger being a prime example.
Matt says
Legislation was written immediately to prevent floating restaurants/rentals after a single craft was discovered in St Johns County, Matanzas Inlet, moving in Flagler’s direction. The disturbance caused by flight schools constantly practicing from 800’ to 4000’ at 70-100 knots directly over our homes is absolutely Wrong. It is like living by a paper mill, the community is less, because of the noise. The lack of effectiveness of our local elected officials to protect and harness the resources that help our communities stay strong is exceptional.
Flight Student says
The flight schools are not an issue. Go out and touch grass you’ll see how little these planes effect you.
What does effect you is this community growing with a diverse group of people.
Let’s be honest here. You and I know that the flight schools demographic down in Daytona is multiple shade of brown.
And you probably don’t like that…
G A says
Bravo Les! Wow I had no idea the advisory board had fallen on the county chopping block. The more I know about the conduct of certain airport and county officials the more disgusted I am. Sadly people have short memories but all this needs to resurface in next year’s elections. Things need to change. We are watching political bullying on the national stage as well as the local stage and I am heartened by the people who are standing up and stating “I am mad as hell and I’m not taking it anymore!”
Les is more says
Thanks for showing support!
Old school custodian says
Can anyone answer me this question?
Why is Roy allowed to store major high power weapons in his office and on airport property? On county property ?
Don miller says
Now what you do with Sieger after he has been legally exposed as a tyrant? Make him employee if the month? Give him a raise? When lose you lose and now we need a more user friendly airport .manager.
Concerned resident says
I am still stunned to see that Sieger does not answer this question when asked
by Andy Dance at a FCBOCC meeting and also when asked by a city council
woman: In the 175,000 operations that the ATC recorded this year how many
are flight school operations and what percent of those flight school operations
are touch and goes as we never had a formal noise study done that has been
recommended in both the 2009 and 2015 Master Plans especially since the
2015 one has shown expansion, we are the only airport in Florida that does not
have a noise compatability program yet Sieger boast and prides himself on
his words that we are the 3rd or 5th busiest airport in Florida how does one
claim this without a noise study for the residents in the surrounding area
of our airport is beyond me. Following a meeting several months ago Sieger
asked Pennington if she wanted him to request a formal FAA noise study, of
course she said yes, months and months went by and when we followed up as to
what was the outcome Petito sends us a request that Sieger sent to the FAA back
in 2020 asking for a noise study in the midst of a global pandemic, of course it was
refused as everything was on lockdown therefore Petito was using this 2020 request
in place of asking for a 2023 noise study request, she is Siegers cover up person and
always has been, she needs to be fired along with Sieger. Recently we asked for a
financial report of the itemized list of expenditures for the year 2022 end of report
showing the total revenue of the end of the year and a list of the total income revenue,
needless to say it has been like pulling teeth to get this public information with emails
going back and forth numerous times. A forensic report needs to be done as some of the
figures on the report is confusing and one of the figures shows the airport operating at
a big loss. And of course we have the county commissioners past and present who will
not help Pennington to get the votes for a noise study, these commissioners have perpetuated
and exacerbated big problems with the airport as you hear Sullivans voice at a meeting
asking Sieger as to why the sign at the airport still reads FLAGLER COUNTY AIRPORT
and not Flagler Executive Airport, this is his main concern, can’t wait for him to go!
CELIA PUGLIESE says
Concerned. Sieger didn’t answer the same question asked by councilwoman Pointieri 10/10/23, regarding percentage of flight schools activities at the airport and other questions as well that is why another meeting will take place expecting him to have the answers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upQVwPZ_aJE&t=3036s
Ben Hogarth says
Dennis and Sean are both good attorneys and good people. A shame they had to square off under such silly circumstances. That said, I am cognizant of the fact there is at least one judge that would rebuke the notion the court’s time was “wasted” by “serving justice,” but my general point stands – this issue should never have made it to court to begin with (and I blame neither court nor jury for it).
Of course, I don’t have all the facts on what was said, to whom, and why. So, my reading of this article by FlaglerLive (although well journalized) is otherwise coming from a place of relative ignorance. However, I’m going to share some thoughts for whatever they may be worth.
Mr. Sieger is a competent airport administrator and I’ve seen that in my own limited experiences in Flagler County Government. Whether or not you agree or like his management style or how he comes across in his demeanor or deportment, his competency has never really been of question. The issue here is whether or not this situation could have been handled more appropriately and if the county could and should have intervened more directly in the decision to terminate the tenancy of Les Abend. Moreover, should the county have had policies in place to avoid the situation altogether?
As public administrators, it’s a management death spiral to allow mid-level and senior managers make decisions in a total vacuum. Perhaps this works well in the private sector, but it’s just not a good look in the public sector. The very essence of “arbitrary and capricious” lends itself to the whims and “complexes” of individuals and personality. We all have individual (personality) flaws, and some of us perhaps more than others (not unironically even the seeming absence of flaws will be treated as in itself, a flaw by many). This is precisely why public policy is (mostly) best conducted in the “light,” with all voices and concerns expressed by all parties, and with all fair due process observed. In this case, for example, it may have been better for tenants to simply have an appeal process through the county commission itself (assuming it didn’t).
And that gets us to the court proceeding. A jury is far more likely to sympathize or empathize with an individual /small business and find that “big government” is trampling their rights. Whether or not the intent of Mr. Sieger was to “shut up” a critic or otherwise add a chilling effect to the organization that was designed to provide him with management recommendations, the jury was provided no alternative motivations to assign to the seemingly arbitrary decision to terminate Abends’ tenancy. Again, this is why public administrators must avoid situations (where avoidable) whereby aggrieved parties can make their assertions and claims to a less informed, and typically diverse group of peers. More often than not, the agency or authority will not enjoy much leeway or empathy from the jury, especially when there exists no alternative explanation for the actions in question.
And this brings me to my last comment or point – the first amendment. I shudder at the thought the first amendment will be applied more often in similar cases. It was a winning argument, and I don’t blame Dennis for using it, but that doesn’t resolve my concerns. The idea that the principal intent of Mr. Sieger was to limit free speech by terminating the tenancy of Les Abend is not an argument that would compel me (as a hypothetical juror) to find the same. At least, not without a lot more direct evidence of “foul play” or malicious intent. Perhaps there was? I haven’t seen it.
First amendment rights are already a topic of fiery rhetoric and debate across the country, with millions of Americans applying a reductive interpretation of it as: “any and all words, at any time, for any reason, irrespective or truth or intent, and blind to who were slandered or harmed.” I’d much rather have a well-established judge make a judicial interpretation on first amendment limits than a transient jury on a case by case. In this circumstance, I don’t believe the application of 1st amendment rights was necessarily erroneous or spurious. However, the thought that public policy decisions may be rebuked by juries because an individual or group simply made the “claim” that a first amendment right had been violated, doesn’t instill much confidence in the future of public agency. There must be a better way.
Tired says
Hmmmmm, so even after Petitio put her best friend into a position at the airport Seiger still blew it! Go figure, pretty sure all of the embarrassing debacles the county has found themselves in have found their root with her. But hey, give her a raise and sing her praise – that’s what always happens in Flagler County! Lipstick on a pig, doesn’t change who the pig is!
Been there says
She put a lot of friends in places along the way. Goes on vacation with them and parties with them. Odd for her position to be doing this but HR looks the other way even though they know it is happening. It was happening when she was a director, why would anything change now. Did the same for Holly Albanese and a boatload of others. If she were to go, the next friend is there to step up. The commission would have to dig deep to pull up anyone who is not connected to that circle. It has become the county culture to hire and promote your friends and kick out anyone who isn’t. The commission is clueless and puppets.
Mark Parker says
As if she can control what other departments are doing in their hiring process. You must have never been involved in leading an organization to understand such nuance to come up with such an opinion.
Jane Gentile-Youd says
Mr. Parker As County Administrator Heidi Petito can hire and fire anyone she pleases without permission from anyone except the county attorney. The Commissioners have the right to hire and fire the County Administrator and the County attorney. Department heads can terminate those under them but make no mistake Fagler County is run totally by Petito and (Hadeed). The Commissioners close their eyes , every one of them by not firing her .
Rachel Powerstrong says
So Petito, who has only been in her position for like a year, is supposed to clean house of all people she created positive relationships with after she got her position?
It sounds like you are mad she’s not firing people who were in their positions way before she even got her job.
If she was firing everyone and cleaning house. You’d probably call her a tyrant.
CELIA PUGLIESE says
Lots of nepotism takes place in our local government as well.
Ben Hogarth says
I’d like to correct the assertion that the County Administrator “put her friend (Sieger) into the position at the airport.” This is unequivocally, factually incorrect. Mr. Sieger has been the Airport Director for many years and (I believe) was hired by the (then) County Administrator, Craig Coffey.
When we make specific accusations, it’s important we stick to the facts – and perhaps just the facts.
Gary says
Mr. Sieger was going to take a position at another airport but Sally Sherman and Craig Coffey stepped in and gave him a raise to stay. Whether or not this was a ploy or reality, only he knows. Ms. Petito is still dealing with the wave of destruction left behind by Coffey/Sherman, whether or not Mr. Sieger is one is up to you to decide.
Concerned resident says
Gary: Was Sally Sherman one of the stakeholders at the airport?
Gary says
Deputy County administrator under Craig Coffey
Concerned resident says
Gary: So was and is she a stakeholder? I thought I saw her name in the Master Plan as
one of the stakeholders and also on the Board, correct me if I’m wrong.
Concerned resident says
Gary: If you look at the 2009 Master Plan you will see Sally Shermans
name as a stakeholder at the airport along with Adam Mengel, and Jason
DeLorenzo just a couple of more familar names to us.
Concerned Citizen says
As people like Sieger continue to hold long term positions we will see more cases like this.
It’s called empire building. People who stay in certain positions for extended periods of time think they are untouchable. If we expect to see change in this county we need to remember it starts with us. Stop electing the same people to serve years and years. Those people end up putting friends in this positions.And then expect different. But getting the same. It doesn’t work.
I am glad to see that accountability won the day for his actions.
CELIA PUGLIESE says
Some posting here and on the county payroll (as the public record shows) probably at six figures pay by the residents hard earned taxes, then becomes very easy a detailed litany of how this justice well served ruling in favor of Mr. Abend could have been avoided by the county, their employer. Not being lawyers their post appear to me a real conflict of interest while on the county’s payroll.
Justice been served by Judge and Jury as this is not supposed to be one more failed “project coordinated by this county”. As County taxpayers we have to endured like related in this editorial the never ending blunders of” projects very ill coordinated” by high paid individuals with total approval of the FCBOCC and manager! Mr. Abend a member of the county forcibly disbanded Airport Advisory Board in 2020, because they cared about the residents flight schools complaints, etc. was witch hunted by Sieger, FCBOCC and manager. Obvious!
Flight Student says
Boomers, so out of touch they have to kneecap everyone else on their way out.
If you bought a house next to an airport that’s been there since 1945 and get mad that the airport is being used be flight students, you’re just bitter.
Also stop with the planes effecting your internet, giving you migraines, or the leaded fuel giving you a low iq. Unfortunately, your issues cannot be explained so simply.
The airport brings young people and worthwhile enterprise. Both people in this issue are assholes, but palm coast has an issue with these old people holding on too their delusions that this is a quiet community. Btw, the larger noise issue is I 95.
Concerned resident says
Flight student: there you go again with the time machine argument, as I said mentioned
above there were houses here first before the airport put this stupid debate to rest already.
The airport does not contribute anything to our communities or to Palm Coast. It’s its own
enterprise, there is no big economic engine here , its all BS when saftey and health effects
are not measured into the BS FAA modeling where they get their 2 million dollar figure
from, the FAA modeling is done for all these type of airports and their million dollar figures
are all the same, as I said HEALTH and SAFETY are not figured and quantified into these
FAA models and if they were it would show negative effects that’s why they leave them out.
Plus the money the airport claims it makes go right back into the airport. ALL PROFITS MUST
BY LAW STAY INsIDE THE AIRPORT SINCE IT RECEIVES FAA FUNDING. THE FEES THAT ARE COLLECTED ON FUEL, HANGERS, AND FACILITY FEES IN THE AIR[ORT MUST STAY
IN THE AIRPORT OPERATING GENERAL FUNDS BY LAW. They cannot be diverted
for non airport purposes. It also does not accout for the massive taxpayer SUBSIDIES the
airport receives through FAA and FDOT. The FAA report does not quantify the ECONOMIC
LOSSES AS LOWER PROPERTY VALUES, AND THE COST OF ENTAILING HEALTH CARE
expenses resulting from AVAGAS(leaded fuel) air, environment pollution. Not only affects
“older people” but also babies, young children (link to autism And birth effects}. WHO SPENDS
THE MOST MONEY IN OUR GAS STATIONS, RESTAURANTS AND GROCERY STORES IN PALM
COAST ARE THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE AND PAY TAXES HERE NOT THE WORLD
WIDE FLIGHT SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO THE AIRPORT CATERS TO AND GO BACK TO
THEIR COUNTRIES AFTER THEY GET THEIR CERTIFICATION. It’s the community of
people Who live here and has for years and years who spend their monry here. Stop ignoring
and harrassing people eho VOICE THEIR COMPLAINTS , you do not contribute to the safety
and heslth to our community and Sieger is trying to EXPAND our airport BEYOND ITS
CAPABILITIES! A airport should NEVER OUTGROW ITS COMMUNITY. Why doesn’t Sieger
charge the flight schools who spill in from everywhere a fee to use our airport? Sieger is also
abandoning his Fiduciary duties to the county which extends to mitigating liability and unsafe
flight operations from the airport he manages which is his responsibility.
Gary says
If the flight students are filling their children with lead from their fuel, why can’t they complain – unless you flight student, informed them. Did you? Did anybody?
The Hitman says
Maybe, just maybe, if enough citizens start lawsuits against the Flagler County Airport and Flagler County for what appear to ne noise and traffic violations, we just might be able to force the County Director/Manager into firing Roy (The Bully) Siegler and replace him with someone who will listen to reason with compassion! OUR GOAL is to get NEW leadership at this airport that knows the needs of others and knows how to carry out their duties as a Flagler County employee!!! Enough is enough and because of the current FCA director, Flagler County has a black mark on it because of him and I’m ashamed for it! It also hasn’t been explained how the airport went from secretly being called Bunnell Airport to Flagler County Executive International Airport…. or so it’s said to be known as.. I’m tired of paying a bully to harass it’s customers at the FCIA!!!!!!! If you can’t hear us now, you’ll surely hear us soon! ENOUGH!!!!!!!!
Concerned resident says
The Hitman: BRAVO! AND the other secret calling it Flagler Executive Airport was
part of the shady scheme trying to gaslight the residents by calling it executive,
when in reality it is a flight school training field , Volusia County would never allow
these dangerous low altitude flights ,maneuvers, and chaotic flight patterns in
their sky over their residents plus the airport director does not want transparency
which is why the Airport Advisory Committee was disbanded and NEVER to be
brought back, like Cameron remarked at a meeting that he never wants this to happen
again, now we know what he meant before he disbanded this committee. You can
also thank the past and present FCBOCC, and county administrators for allowing
this airport director all this freedom with no oversight which is strange in itself.
Thomas Hutson says
Flagler County Airport-Retaliation
This is a great example of what is wrong with our Flagler County Government today! Residents have expressed concerns and problems with our airport. Nothing is being done to correct the problem or at least explore options to correct the residents’ concerns.
One thing that has occurred and continues to occur is anger and resentment regarding the total operations of the Airport, including the Airport Manager. Conflict regarding the Airport Manager, County Manager, County Attorney, Flight Schools, Airport Tenants have fallen on deaf ears.
The reality of these issues is that under the current administration nothing has been done or will be done. History of this Administration and The Flagler County Commission is to just ignore the problem! The main response to our County Residents is “WELL YOU KNEW THE AIRPORT WAS THERE BEFORE YOU MOVED THERE”.
Well, now is the time for Flagler County Residents who have spoken up to take matters in their own hands. The 2024 election is coming, if you want Change, now is the time! Stop wasting your breath, NO ONE IS LISTENING! Remember where your true power lies, YOUR VOTE!
Concerned resident says
Flight student: You conveniently left out the most important fact and study which these
Avagas (leaded fuel) piston engine flight school planes use here it is:
Today, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced its final determination that
emissions of lead from aircraft that operate on leaded fuel cause or contribute to air pollution
which may reasonably be anticipated to endanger public health and welfare under the Clean Air Act.
‘The science is clear: exposure to lead can cause irreversible and life-long health effects in children,”
said EPA Administrator Michael S. Regan. “Aircraft that use leaded fuel are the dominant source
of lead emissions in our air. With today’s action, the Biden-Harris Administration can move forward
in the process to propose new standards to protect all communities from the serious threat of lead
pollution from aircraft.’ ” EPA Press Release, October 18, 2023
P.S. You also sound like a ageist stop discriminating against seniors the pollution from the
Avagas affects everyone!
Flight Student says
Sorry, I can only finish part of that out of touch rant.
But most of the houses were built after 1945, have you not left your house and seen all the construction.
Btw, my sperm count is superb. Thanks for the concern tho ;)
Concerned resident says
Flight student: Again do your research, there were over 200 homes built around
there in the late 1930’s, demographics don’t lie with your continued time machine rant.
I bet you I get out more then you, with all your ageism comments on a Saturday night
you seem to have nothing better to do with all the time you have on your hands then
to attack people calling them names, demeaning people. It is stunning how you can’t
put together Avagas gas studies connecting it to toxic lead emissions, google the
research but you connect it with your sperm count? We really are not concerned
with your sperm count but good for you.It makes for a good joke on a Saturday night.
Once again our community is a very diverse community and these are the communities
that are most affected so stop with your pulling of the race card when you have no other
intelligent arguments and run out of answers. You call yourself a flight student? You
must be Siegers numero uno continuing his protocol and legacy of unneighborly
rude and nasty behavior towards residents in our communities. Hey Sieger are you
reading this, this is what you perpetuate e among your young flight school trainees
and staff? Instead of fostering good feelings between your staff, flight instructors,
traiinees and the members of our community who pay your salary this is all you
can come up with? Time for you to go as some people have already mentioned and
time for us to hire a nice people friendly airport director that can maintain a
balance of peace, respect and cooperation in our community. For someone who is
so afraid of losing his job as is mentioned in the above article maybe there are many
reasons that you are afraid of with losing your job, stop using your staff and flight
students at our airport as shields against your arrogant behavior. If they are nasy
on the ground that’s why they are also nasty in the air, flying a plane is a privilege
that not many can handle, we wouldn’t want to be anywhere near this future pilots
behavior let alone him flying passengers in our skies.
palmcoaster says
Disguised flight student your innuendo regarding your private glands count sound to me very familiar with a sexist alike comment a whole ago from someone in our block with close ties to the airport!
Ya’ll use the same crass language of disrespect with regards to elderly an other Palmcoasters. Be mindful of our strong determination as once our 2024 train leaves the station is no way back. For sure is hard to believe that any student will use the vulgar expressions that you display here. Sound more like one of the henchmen in local government in a very calculated goal supporting the flight schools “touch and goes” to justify to FAA grants 61 millions (our tax payers hard earned funds) since 2019 to this airport.
The Voice Of Reason says
If you want to understand the effects of leaded fuel emissions, google Reid-Hillview Airport in San Jose, Ca. A wealth of info can be found here. Dig a little. The EPA and FAA are both in agreement with proven facts about the harm of leaded fuel emissions.
The Boogyman says
BOO: FLAGLER COUNTY EXECUTIVE INTERNATIONAL
AIRPORT RANKS NUMBER 20 IN THE U.S. FOR TOXIC LEAD
EMISSIONS THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN PRIDE OURSELVES
ON IN THEIR COUNTY ANNUAL REPORT BOOK ALONG AND
WITH THE TOURIST BUREAU!
Flight Student says
Serious question, why don’t the citizens against the flight school make a lawsuit against these flight schools or the manufacturers?
I want serious responses only, I can only handle so many people worried about my swimmers.
CELIA PUGLIESE says
We may boot you all at the ballot box no need for lawsuit! We do not need an arrogant, crass, using profane insults to describe the elderly or young residents of Palm Coast! You sound to me like one of the local government disguised henchmen biting the very hand that feeds them, with our hard earned taxes. Your lack of civility does not fit a student! Like Hutson says above, will be probably resolved soon in 2024! The “WELL YOU KNEW THE AIRPORT WAS THERE BEFORE YOU MOVED THERE” no longer sticks!
Concerned resident says
Flight student: This is a topic in itself that needs to be a further conversation
I agree. But it’s the county who owns the airport permit to operate it, and there
were and still are issues that fell upon deaf ears with county officials which is why
we needed that Airport Advisory Committee to act as a liason to help remedy
the issues and problems. Everyone was willing to sit at the table to discuss
and still is with the exception of the airport manager, county administrator,
FCBOCC and is the reason why they don’t want a Airport Advisory Committee,
they don’t want transparency. They just want to continue doing things as sneaky
and quiet as possible which they always did. You guys are not totally at fault, you’re
kind of stuck in the middle of careless decisions and agendas that were passed.
I do understand where you are coming from tho.
Jane Gentile-Youd says
Hey snippety Flight Student – Hold your breath because I have heard there are 2 ( t w o ) more lawsuits on the way . Sad part is that the county will lose ( or settle) every one . Even sadder is that our Chief Attorney Al Hadeed outsources every lawsuit and never represents us but gets close to a $$million a year of our taxpayer’s money including that of those whose lives you jackasses are destroying. Of course you have all the help you need from Sieger and his pal Petito. Just wait Flight Student.
Your days I around here I hope are numbered ( as well as the days of your ‘official’ enablers: of Sieger, Hadeed, Petito and Mengel) . A once beautiful community is obviously turning into a political grab bag of ignorant tyrants ( my opinion) when they can even allow ‘flight students’ like you over our precious airspace and the e ven more precious personal airspace of our residents you are polluting.
Your days I hope are coming. Congratulations again for opening the door to the den of iniquity to Les Abend ( whom we are blessed to have in Flagler County) as well as Dennis Bayer who is the only attorney around here for the people ( my opinion)
CELIA PUGLIESE says
This for all Palmcoasters to read what our children and all are exposed to lead first and other dangers by these flight schools training touch and go, etc. at Flagler Airport :https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/growing-pressure-to-close-reid-hillview-airport-in-san-jose/
Gina says
We just may have another Flint Michigan on our hands, testing needs to be done.
FlaglerLive says
Commenters in this thread need to chill. Focus on the arguments, not the commenters, and don’t fabricate. Ben Hogarth is not employed locally, as numerous commenters keep alleging. Flight Student has been banned for violating several comment policies, including fabricating an email contact. Numerous comments have been held back for other reasons. Follow the policies. Don’t waste our time policing you, alleged adults.
Concerned resident says
Question: Why won’t Andy Dance and Greg Hansen give a concerned
commissioner the votes to initiate and direct the county administrator
and Sieger to request the FAA to do a NOISE STUDY which involves the
communities surrounding our airport especially since Sieger boast of it’s
expansion and it being the 3rd busiest airport in Florida and especially since
there is more housing intended to be developed {The Cascades) in that area.
At a recent City counsel meeting Sieger commented during his presentation
that the noise stays inside the airport and does not spill out into our communities,
then when asked by a council woman if the Cascades are going to experience noise
he replied yes. Another council man was concerned about the airport not having radar
and asked Sieger if this posed a danger, Siegers reply was yes, but yet he wants to
expand without a noise study! The FAA only provides Air Traffic Services at our airport
control tower from 6 am to 8 pm daily, the airport operates 24 hours a day. When the
FAA is not providing services, the airport is considered an “uncontrolled airport” There
are unlicensed student pilots carrying out touch and goes some past midnight.
WHY would county officials not have chosen noise abatement policies and procedures
that are enforceable instead of voluntary noise abatement which is not enforceable to
protect its residents, citizens and voters of our community, they should all
be ashamed of themselves both past and present who did not look out for their
citizens and delete and throw citizens complaints in the garbage.
Gina says
BOO:Sieger claims that he employs over 2000 people which is a gross exaggeration,
whereas Daytona Internationl Airport employs 42 people, let that sink in!
FlaglerLive says
We do not have anywhere on record Roy Sieger claiming to employ 2,000 people. The airport employs eight people, according to the current budget. Don’t use this site to spread disinformation.
Gina says
Sieger claims in a FDOT STUDY based on a module that the
airport contributes to 2,588 jobs in Flagler County, how is this
information extrapolated?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upQVwPZ_aJE&t=3036s
FlaglerLive says
“Employing” versus “contributes to the employment of” are two very different things. One is empirical and verifiable. The other is the sort is speculative, deductive fabrication governments and chambers of commerce excel in when claiming what economic impact this or that has on a community. Your original comment referred to Sieger claiming to employ 2,000. If you mean he claims the airport has an economic impact that employs so many people, it’s a different issue.
Gina says
FlaglerLive: so how is this economic impact verified that the airport employs
so many people???
Keep in mind that when this is presented in a presentation meeting it can be
confusing to people and needs to be clarified which I am trying to do,
also here is a link that has to do with this: http://bit.ly/1tWnANS
Concerned resident says
What Flagler County needs are people like Les Abend or Daryl Hickman
to run our airport, people who want to do the right things for our community,
people who are not bought and sold officials, this airport director has the
personality of an authoritarian, he does not even give the surrounding
communities a little bit of respite time on weekends, morning hours,
late night hours when our children need to get their sleep these flight
school planes are hammering over us all the time! A county commissioner
told us that the 2 other votes needed to get a noise study is not able to
get, they just don’t care! Remember this at voting time.
Old Guy says
The airport, nearby neighborhoods, flight schools based at Flagler, and transient flight school aircraft are here to stay. The stakeholder groups need to have a process through which their concerns may be heard and hopefully a reasonable compromise can be reached. No one is going to get everything they want but they should be able to coexist. Jet fuel and Low Lead Aviation Gasoline are both fossil fuels and contribute to air pollution. The FAA is working with Big Oil and the Aviation Industry to develop an unleaded aviation gasoline but it will take time.
Concerned resident says
I appreciate your neutral comments as this is what we were trying to do
going back to 2019 which is why we had workshops and that’s when
we had the input from Daryl Hickmen and Les Abend and Sieger claimed
at one of those workshops that that he never knew the Airport Advisory
Committee felt the way they did, DESPITE Mr. Hickman and Mr. Abends
advise to him in helping to mitigate the noise traffic from the flight school
planes, then this comittiee was disbanded by Jerry Cmeron who said he
was going to have the commissioners instruct Hadeed to rewriting the
bylaws, I mentioned this in my comment above to you, what ever
happened with that???? And why NOW does the commissioners do not
want to reestablish another Airport Committee, I spoke about this
several times at recent FCBOCC meetings , we are going around in
circles again with NO ANSWERS. You sound like Jerry Cameron when he
said no one is going to get eveything but our communities got NOTHING
in fact because of these poor decisions which were not made to bring the
committe back emboldened the aiport manager which emboldeneds the
flight schools even further to hammer over our homes, you need to stop
going in circles with this conversation and answer the questions I asked
and we need to have NOISE ABATEMENT which is not voluntary so
that these flight schools receive violations when they do not obey and
disrespect our airports policies and procedures, we need a noise study
done in the surrounding communities and a noise compatibility
program as well and as far as the Avagas I was told by a aviation attorney
that this may all have a big impact very soon if by the current adminsitration
it is ruled out, it already happened in a Sanat Monica airport.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/...
Old Guy says
Let me be clear on this. The airport advisory board should not have been disbanded by Jerry Cameron in 2019. A new board needs to be established by the end of 2024 if not sooner. A noise study should be conducted as well. I’ve lived in Palm Coast since 1990 and I’m familiar with the airports usage since that time. However my home is in northern Palm Coast so I’m not affected by the noise of the aircraft traffic pattern.
The Voice Of Reason says
UL94 (unleaded aviation gas) is already available at many airports in the US but airports and aviation groups drag their feet to cater to greedy flight schools whose heavily predominate fleet are super old cessna 172s that take leaded fuel only. These schools need to upgrade to planes that use unleaded. They can afford it. They make tons of money off these wealthy students and their parents. these 172s are mostly ancient as their registration numbers show. Type in their tail number for ownership history.
Concerned resident says
The Voice Of Reason: 100 percent spot on, the flight school industry is a
billion dollar industry and we as taxpayers foot the bill. The FAA’s primary
funding source for GA airports comes from the Aviation Trust Fund that
receives excise taxes from domestic passenger tickets, international
passengers a&d, and on the purchases of air traveled miles. The monies
from the Aviation Trust Fund are funneled through several different FAA
accounts which includes the Airport Improvement Program (AIP) , a
substantial amount of the AIP funds are accrued by requiring commercial
airline passengers to pay a passenger facility charge each time they fly.
It’s the AIP funding that our airport gets through FAA grants for the
construction and infrastructure projects which brings us to this question:
Out of 175, 000 operations that the ATC recorded this year how many
are flight school operations and what percent of those flight school
operations are touch and goes? Sieger receives funding from the FAA
according to those figures , what is the breakdown of this data
as he claims we are one of the 5 busiest airports in Florida. The county
can call this airport whatever they want but this is a flight school
training airport. Why would people fly into PC when they have JAX,
Orlando and Daytona, we may get some private planes but they do not
accont for the 175,000 operations Sieger is boasting.
CELIA PUGLIESE says
Last night of Friday 10/27/23 at 11.52 pm, while retiring to sleep, I could not! As two of these arrogant pilot trainees were making obnoxious rounds above our homes! Wondering also me in the ground when one of them may fall on us as happens often: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-plane-spiraling-down-crash-oregon-home-killed-barrett-bevacqua-michele-cavallotti/
https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/st-lucie-county/2023/08/18/local-flight-school-linked-to-plane-in-deadly-slc-crash/70621038007/
https://6abc.com/philadelphia-plane-crash-northeast-philly-airport-cessna-tailwinds-flight-school/13592924/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6MIAekYw1A
In 2011 also: https://www.kreindler.com/news/aviation-academy-cessna-172r-crash-texas
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2022/september/16/early-analysis-flight-training-accident
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-09-25/plane-crash-san-pedro-soccer-field-2-seriously-injured
https://icao.usmission.gov/pr-accident-involving-01112021/
https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/danbury-plane-crash-southern-blvd-17890549.php
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/flight-instructor-killed-student-pilot-crashes-virginia-rcna51393
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/new-video-shows-moment-small-plane-crashed-in-arlington-everyone-onboard-survived/3352060/ and the list goes on.
All the above would not let me sleep last night while the two trainees were circling our homes at 11.52 at night and with a nearby airport that does not even have radar and with its tower closed for the day. Then they are flying by instrument only, cause no vision at night? Like John Kennedy did when disoriented and crashed in the Atlantic? This is not if a plane will fll but just when instead given the multitude training, as the whole wide world does it here. So I also figured that was happening maybe all evening but unheard over my TV watching sound earlier. My house is a well built with heavy concrete Spanish tilde roof that insulates for noise…well doesn’t work with these pilot training school, thieves of our safety, peace, quiet in Palm Coast. I can imagine what their touch and goes affect our neighbors in Palm Coast communities of Seminole Woods and Quail Hollow! Horrendous as reported! Need to be stopped in 2024 or asap before too late and loss of life on the ground forced and exposed by these training schools, will become a tragic reality for some of us in Flagler County and its cities.
Praying for Peace says
From one year ago- Still unresolved and ignored by FCBOCC. Sieger lies to them, on the record, and they take it at face value. It is time to amend the 2008 Flagler County Airport Rules and Regulations and PROHIBIT touch and go maneuvers. Protect our safety, health, and welfare, prevent the excessive lead pollution from single-piston aircraft, and return the peace to Flagler County. Roy Sieger has cost the local residents and the County untold quality of life issues, loss of enjoyment of our homes, loss of home values, loss of peace and tranquility, and has allowed the destruction of our American Dream of home ownership. Who is going to compensate the thousands of homeowners who are suffering, never imagining they would be sold out for Flight School profits. These flight schools contribute NOTHING to Palm Coast, fly hundreds of daily circles over our city, emit 720 pounds of lead each year, fly here from Ormond, Daytona, New Smyrna, St. Augustine or right from Flagler and STEAL our Peace, Prosperity, and Rights! It is time for common sense to rule and an end to the dynasty of greed and ignoring the voice and rights of the residents!
The voice of reason says
OCTOBER 18, 2023 AT 10:32 PM
Roi seiger is an arrogant piece of crap. It’s a shame the county puts him on a pedestal. He deserves to be fired long ago. He has shown nothing but disrespect to the airport neighbors by making zero effort to enact noise abatement. He must be in the pocket of the numerous flight schools that run amuck 24/7/365. 90% of the airport traffic comes from Daytona. Besides noise, these crappy old flight school planes spew leaded fuel exhaust comparable to flint Michigan. Children especially but adults are harmed by this exhaust. There’s a reason leaded fuel was outlawed in cars long ago. There is no safe level of lead. Greedy flights schools and their cheerleader, roi seiger need to be shut down. Close the airport asap.make it a business park and create jobs. Commissioners, do your job. Take care of residents first. Quit crapping on us!