Ralph Carter Park is alive and well, and teeming with activity, from toddlers to grandparents. On any given night of the week, the Phantom Flag Football and Cheer league has a dozen or so teams of all youth ages practicing there. Twice a week a large group of older players hold their soccer pick-up games. People run and walk around the park. The activity stretches into the night, as the park’s floodlights turn on and keep the place as bright and safe as it was under sunshine.
Now Palm Coast wants to charge sports leagues for the cost of using the fields and the lights—there and at the Indian Trails Sports Complex.
Phantom Flag officials having a hard time understanding the city’s rationale. They might better understand if the city was offering them money, for what their presence at Ralph Carter Park has done to the place: since last fall, flag football’s nightly practices at Ralph Carter Park have essentially turned the park from a no-go zone for most people in the R Section to a true neighborhood park, with appeal for many people beyond the neighborhood.
“At one point in my life I wouldn’t even come out to this park. It was ridiculous,” T.J. Rosenthal, a young parent with three children, said late one afternoon last week, as he stood on the side of one of the playing fields. “We live nearby, so we would come over here because it’s a nice park, and they have a skate park with nice, new equipment. But you’d come here, you’d stay maybe 15 minutes, then the kids would run you off.”
The kids: older intimidating adolescents who tended to lord over the basketball courts and dominate the park. It’s different now. “The kids come up here and see everybody here, and they know that if they do something wrong they’re probably going to have the cops called, so they go some place else. The more people we have on any given night, the less problems that we have.”
Rosenthal is one of the local NFL flag football league’s founders and directors. The league started last year after the YMCA’s flag football league disbanded, when the YMCA had to vacate its old home at Florida Hospital Flagler. The league’s first season, in spring 2011, drew 200 participants, who were charged $55 each. The cost was kept down thanks to a number of sponsors that signed on. This fall’s cost is up to $75. There are fewer sponsors, but insurance costs have gone up, and the league has added a cheer team, also raising the cost. It’s now $75 per student.
Palm Coast wants to impose new costs on youth leagues that could raise participants’ bills another $10, possibly pricing out many over the long term. The city council, in a workshop two weeks ago, was all for it–until the council members faced angry league officials at a subsequent meeting, and changed their tune. They’ve asked the city administration to meet with those officials and work out a compromise.
For the Flag football league, additional costs, imposed on a per-team basis and per-hour basis for light usage, would have add up to roughly an extra $2,300 in a season.
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To Rosenthal and others involved in the league, including parents, the city isn’t recognizing the much greater value, including the monetary value, that leagues like flag football have brought to Ralph Carter Park by being there every evening, and making it safer—and far less expensive as a matter of law enforcement or other associated costs. The cumulative costs of a single arrest run through the judicial system would far exceed a season’s additional costs on a league, for example. Of course, Palm Coast wouldn’t pay those costs. But other taxpayers would. That’s not taking in consideration the money—and potential pain, and cost to society—saved by engaging youth in constructive activities (as local politicians, including city council members, often say they want in their city) as opposed to miscreance or crime.
That’s what flag football is doing in part, as its organizers see it. “You came out here and you didn’t feel safe,” Rosenthal said of Ralph Carter Park less than a year ago. “I’ve got kids out here, and we’ve got 4, 5 6-year-old kids that are practicing out here. At the beginning of last season I would have told them I want you to move over to the other park because I wouldn’t have felt that they were safe at this location. By the end of the spring last year, we had a big enough presence at this location that we were staring to see less and less of the older kids showing up here.”
A little recent history is in order.
For almost two years, Ralph Carter Park was the newest and least happy of Palm Coast parks. (Waterfront Park subsequently opened, making it the newest.) The $2.2 million, 13-acre spread on quiet, tree-rimmed land next to Rymfire Elementary school had perfectly manicured playing fields, a full-size basketball court, a skateboard park, and a mini park for the youngest children.
There was little question that few people found the place welcoming.
“I thought it was sad that my kids couldn’t go to the park that was right next to their school. And my kids couldn’t understand why they couldn’t go to the park,” Gretchen Smith, who now brings her young children to the park regularly and uses it herself for exercise, said. “But 18 months ago I was here one Saturday afternoon, and there was a group of people up at the bathrooms, and there was a mother and her two children, and the mom said the kids wanted to use the bathroom. This group of people wouldn’t let them in the bathroom. They were like, no, you can’t use the bathroom. It escalated from there and they started harassing her.” There was intimidation and cussing directed at the woman, in front of her two young children. “I called the cops, and the cops pulled up, and of course as soon as I said I’m calling the cops they turned around and started walking that way out of the park. The cop pulls up, sees them, stops them, and they start walking the other way.”
Smith didn’t go back to the park for months after that—until flag football migrated there. Now it’s an entirely different atmosphere, she says, as her 11-year-old son plays on a distant field. I’m so happy that this park is now being used by the entire community, not a small group of people who were, you know, threatening other people, or threatening to other people, not necessarily directly threatening them,” Smith says. “I think it’s an awesome thing for the community that the sports have basically reclaimed the park that people weren’t going to, or people were intimidated to go to.” Smith, too, considers the city’s proposed light-billing policy short-sighted. (Palm Coast Recreation Director Luanne Santangelo did not return a call Monday afternoon.)
Charging for lights puts Cheryl Ferguson, a parent who goes to Ralph Carter Park with her young daughter four nights a week, beside herself.
“It’s a safety, it’s definitely a safety thing with the lights. I think parents are more comfortable with letting their kids come here by their selves, if they’re of age, because they know if they pull through here, they want to pick up their kids, they can spot them, they can figure out where they are,” Ferguson said. “I tell you what, I just watched a whole bunch of trees go up on Belle Terre. They’re telling us they want to pass on the buck for lighting, to keep kids protected, when they just put a bunch of trees on the side of Belle Terre? Really? Really?”
Ferguson adds, “I understand the need, everybody’s going to get increases, everybody’s going to have it passed on because of the economic firestorm, whatever you want to call it, but I find it highly ridiculous that you want to pass it on to a league that’s keeping this community safer not only by getting our kids involved in other stuff, because what would these kids be doing if they didn’t have this league?”
tulip says
If Palm Coast cut back on the overkill of some of the landscaping and trees and the constant replacing of some of it, there would be enough money to pay for the lighting.
Palm Coast has received an award for being a “tree city”—-how about them caring enough for the well being of the residents and getting known as a “people friendly” city?
palmcoaster says
I would just be content with the city receiving an award just for being “a People’s City” and at that time would have meant, that some of our serious problems would have been resolved.
palmcoaster says
No fees in our parks for the kids and leagues. We already pay in our taxes for those services. Our officials need to use our taxes for the intended purpose that is, the services for the tax payers. Not benefiting the 1% elite instead.
w.ryan says
What’s the cost for a wayward child? It’s time to reinvest on the children. I see the lights on when the park is not in use. Why scrounge for money now?
Jake Spicer says
we dont lights at this field, we dont need plants and trees on the side of the road. Wed need sidewalks going all the way down belle terre and mostly seminole woods. We need to get these sidewalk AND lights down these roads to aviod accidents such as the truck hitting Kirt Smith (loved and missed by many)(R.I.P. kirt i will miss you forever and never forget you). And we should name these sidewalks in Kirt Smith’s name to remind everyone about this accident and have no one forget.
PalmCoastPioneers says
Palm Coast –
Planning a City
‘…Given the mode of growth, we confront the unhappy fact that even if engineering controls are ideal to the point where physical pollution is zeroed out, the community might still become the quintessence of social gargage heaps, amorphous in structure, malignant to the personality, monotonous in living rhythms, dehumanized to the edge of anonymity, and unarticulated to the point of disharmony. Those whoe have read The Death and Life of Great American Cities 16 by Jane Jacobs, saw chronicled in this already classic treatise some of the most monumental errors conceivable from city to city, from suburb to suburt.
It is easy to say we are cognizant of the problem and even that we know how awesome it is. But candoe forces us to admit the pervisity of the dilemma. This should not be surprising, because planning may be one of the most stubborn problems the world faces. One knows from the start that all the problems cannot be solved, because the state of the art is not optimal…nor will it ever be. Picture this: No Community approaching 100,000 acres has ever been both predesigned and come to fruition. So, if nobody has planned anything of this scope, who can do it? We at Palm Coast , however, start by asking the question a different way–how are we to do it? As a minute prologue, allow us a couple of quick, simple examples.
Many communities make much of the fact that they have parks–nice green parks with quaint wooden benches in bucolic settings. There is even a tendency to automatically equate parks with proper planning. But if there is one thing that research shows , it is a park alone means nothing. ———>It is where the park is situated –how it is related to the dynamics of the community–that is significant.<——– This is why in so many cities a park in one area is haven for the flowering of the human spirit, and a park in another area is a hot house for delinquency. So, it is clear that the issue is the context of what we offer, rather than merely what we offer….'
'…An Approach to a New City: Palm Coast…' Dr. J. Norman Young, Dr. Stanley Dea, Environmental Affairs, Vol. 2, No. 1, 1972, P. 147
Well How About That says
Given COPC’s current economic predicament, the timing on this is especially rough. However, If anyone cares to follow research on this topic, go here…..The Hottest Topic in National Parks and Recreation administrative offices: http://www.nrpa.org/blog/default.aspx?id=5617&blogid=73520.
Palm Coast is following the national trend to turn traditionally funded public services into more for-profit partnership and enterprise centers. Sometimes these changes encounter controversy, as there is with most things new or untested in the public’s backyard, but with a bit of internet inquiry, much can be learned. Get educated, get active, stay informed, inform others. For example…
Irving Texas does this:
Fields are available: Monday through Friday: 4 to 11 p.m. and Saturday through Sunday: 10 a.m. to 11 p.m.
Reservations are made in one hour increments with a two hour maximum. Ball field reservations are made between the hours of 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. by calling (972) 721-2656
Irving resident rates: $10/hr without lights/ $15/hr with lights
Non-Irving resident rates: $20/hr without lights/$30/hr with lights
Fees are due when reservation is made.
Forest Grove, Oregon does this:
FIELD LIGHT CHARGES (per 1 hr period)
IN-CITY / OUT-CITY
Soccer Field – Lincoln or Thatcher Parks $39.40 / $39.40
Bond Field $39.40 / $39.40
Sherman Field & Thatcher Park Softball (per field) $19.75 / $19.75
Lincoln Park Practice Field $19.75 / $19.75
Google this: “cities that charge for recreational lighting”. You’ll get dozens of responses. Charging for lights is really not new after all. However, given this is a completely new proposition, and represents a hefty unfunded mandate for Flagler’s families, its deployment may require a very soft rollout while at the same time much negotiation with all affected parties.
rdh says
Sporting events by our citizens should not be charged for the use of our parks. These are parks and open to the public wether it’s a family picnic or a ball game.. We the tax payers of Palm Coast are taxed for the right to use our parks.. Teams from outside the city for tournements and events which take over the park for several days should be expected to pay. The city ends up with the cleaning up behind them.. These events can charge a fee to the participants to offset the fee paid to the city..
Yogi says
When I was a teen we played sports after school and on weekends. Then I decided to go to work because I wanted a boat so I could water ski. I went to work of 80 cents an hour. I was payed $14 a week. I had to work Saturday. I didn’t expect anyone to do anything for me. I was focused and I had my passion. I bought the boat and motor after saving for months. I had to fix the boat. Then finally I could go water skiing next year. Gasoline was 26 to 30 cents a gallon. The country was not in debt yet as Lyndon Johnson had not proposed the Great Society legislation to end poverty. I was 14 years old and able to do this because the adults in my community guided me as they saw fit. Now we are 15 trillion in debt, there are more poor people than ever. People in the community want the government to do everything for them. Our President has launched a class warfare drive to try and divert attention from his failure to deal with decades of misuse by the politicians of taxpayers hard earned money and some idiot wants me to go to Jacksonville and chant like a freaking monkey “we are the 99” as if this will solve anything. I don’t think so. Even Obama’s Economic Council has decided the country has to make drastic policy changes to promote entrepreneurial solutions. Please note the article source was the AP.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/10/obama-jobs-council-calls-for-sweeping-changes-in-federal-policies/
jimmythebull says
i dont care who wrote this article, but , i live up the street from the park.the bloods are there. crack and prostution .
Art says
Jimmythebull,
Impossible, there are no gangs in Flagler County. Don’t believe it, ask the Sheriff he’ll tell you.