By Rick Belhumeur
Beware, Flagler Beach residents, of what happens when you’re not paying attention.
Every year before the commission has its budget workshop, city department heads and commissioners gather for a “strategic planning session.” This is a daylong public meeting where the city staff and elected officials express their wishes for the upcoming year, prioritizing a list of wants and needs. The city manager and staff then try to incorporate these wishes in the next proposed budget. This budget is then presented to the commission during its budget workshops.
For the last several years now the city has had a line item in the budget putting aside $50,000 each year towards the purchase of a new fire truck because they didn’t want to spend $300,000 all at once. Now, all of a sudden the request is for a $600,000 truck and to budget it this coming year.
The existing tower truck was purchased “used” less than five years ago, in 2009, for $85,000 from the Rayford Virginia fire department (former Flagler Beach fire Chief Martin Roberts’s previous employer). In fact, during the commission meeting of July 23, 2009, consent agenda item #13 was to “reject the bid from Rayford, VA for a fire truck.” Usually consent agenda items are approved without discussion. Sometimes however, an item is pulled from the list for questions or discussion and usually approved afterwards. But this ended differently.
Then-commissioner Linda Provencher, who is now mayor, wanted to give the fire department and their volunteers an opportunity to speak on the topic before rejecting the bid. After Roberts, some of his staff and several residents expressed their thoughts and concerns, the commission (after much deliberation) voted 3-2 to approve the bid rather than reject it. It was paid for from infrastructure surtax reserves. That’s the fund Pace proposes to use, along with the $200,000 the city will have put aside, to purchase a new “Quint” ladder truck. The city should have never bought this 25 year old used truck. After only being used on one fire, they are proposing the purchase of a new one.
Last year at this time the commission was assured that the city’s tower truck was in good shape and could be kept in service for several more years. This past August, at the last substantial fire within the city, two ladder trucks responded to the fire–a county truck that was used to help extinguish the fire, and a ladder from Palm Coast that stood by in reserve. All the while, Flagler Beach’s vaunted tower truck sat inside the fire station three blocks away.
I believe that the city should stick with plan “A” which is to continue putting money aside and then purchase a “new” front-line fire truck when the city can afford it. The fire department has another engine that is nearly 20 years old. How long will it be before they are asking to replace it?
Infrastructure funds–the revenue is collected from a county sales surtax, a portion of which goes to Flagler Beach–should not be used for this purchase, especially since there is already a plan in place. Flagler Beach has ageing infrastructure that needs repair. It’s nice to be able to flush your toilet and not worry about where it goes, but the wastewater treatment plant and lift stations need upgrades. The city wells that supply our drinking water periodically have major issues and need to be repaired or replaced. Streets and alleys need repair in many areas of the city. Until recent years, the city used to have a policy of repaving two miles of city owned roadways every year, but stopped it as a cost saving measure. There are many roads that are under water during and after rains and need storm water upgrades. And the list goes on.
Commissioner Steve Settle is going to have a town hall meeting (prompted only after media published concerns about the city’s approach) this coming Tuesday, June 24, at 5:30 p.m. in the City Hall Commission Chamber. He is inviting the public to discuss “concerns and questions you may have regarding upcoming budgetary considerations for the Flagler Beach Fire Department.” Again, there is no mention of the intent to purchase a new tower truck. I believe this is more deception so that the public doesn’t realize that such a large amount of money is at stake.
I urge Flagler Beach taxpayers to show up at this town hall meeting, get involved and keep the commission and staff honest enough in the future to call a fire truck a fire truck–not fire safety equipment or budgetary considerations.
According to the Flagler County Property Appraiser’s website, Flagler Beach property values on the barrier island are going up anywhere from 10 to 19 percent, meaning that, unless we have another recession, our taxes will be going up for years to come. Get involved, share your concerns with our commissioners and make sure they spend our tax dollars wisely. Remember, they are elected officials and are supposed to represent us, the taxpayers.
It’s already expensive to live in Flagler Beach. Don’t allow it to get worse because you weren’t paying attention.
Rick Belhumeur, an occasional contributor to FlaglerLive, is a Flagler Beach resident and property owner. He previously wrote on taxes and fire services consolidation. Reach him by email here.
confidential says
Totally agree. The financial abuses by the ones’ in office of our ever diminishing earnings of the middle class to pay these ever raising taxes, is just a highway robbery and pathetically is done to benefit always some elite.
Every time I remember that wasteful Taj Mahal were just a mid tier employee has an office bigger than my living room and dining room together plastered with cherry wood office furniture and high back leather bucket swivel chairs and with so much wasted space that no paper work or document file cabinets justifies the luxury, just makes me sick. All in in the dime of the current second highest unemployment county in Florida. And better do not start me on the incoming wasteful Palm Coast City Hall shoved to us anyway after we said NO by referendum! Meanwhile we have empty office buildings, offices and store fronts allover this county and cities.
Better watch it FB taxpayers and go to those meetings. Because they waste our taxes and then raise them to their like!
What a joke says
Rick it’s tax payers like you who misunderstand the operations of the fire dept and the reasonings for specific equipment. Your just another resident who thinks the truck will just sit and never get used. Well Rick your wrong again. Have you ever thought about going down to the fire dept and talking to Capt Pace on the plans of the new truck? Or wait you prolly just listen to Kim Carney and believe everything she says. Yea it’s a 600k dollar truck but no it’s not gonna sit and never get used. People like you need to stop thinking what you think you know and actually. Go down to te fire dept and talk about it and get the facts. But hey it’s ok for the police dept to get new vehicles but god for bid the fire dept wants a new truck. No matter how bad you wanna bash that department in the end those men and women are still gonna do their jobs at the end of the day. It’s sad people like you who have a huge misunderstanding of the fire department.
Truth Seeker says
Seems to me that there WAS a plan to replace their front line pumper a couple years ago but those people were fired. Now, a proposal for a new ladder truck is on the table. Maybe the department should consider getting ALL of their personnel certified by the State of Florida to operate an aerial apparatus; then worry about having the manpower to staff it. Then, and only then should the city consider buying a new truck.
Has Mr. Pace done any research into stainless steel apparatus? I mean after all, Flagler Beach IS a barrier islane. Anything else will rot in a few years. Maybe Mr. Pace’s deception about the truck is just bleeding over from his deception about his past DUI issues?
Rick Belhumeur says
I didn’t “bash” the Fire department and I didn’t say that the department doesn’t need a new truck. I believe they need a new truck, just not a $600k aerial. People in the department keep talking about providing ALS service… this city needs that much more than an aerial. They aren’t going to respond to medical calls in a “quint”. Get a nice new front line pumper set up for ALS service. Most of us have dreams of getting that “ultimate vehicle” but don’t get them because they cannot afford it and don’t absolutely need it.
Money says
Its my opinion that you’re very misunderstood on the way our local fire departments work.
In emergency services, mutual aid is an agreement among emergency responders to lend assistance across jurisdictional boundaries. This may occur due to an emergency response that exceeds local resources, such as a disaster or a multiple-alarm fire. Mutual aid may be ad hoc, requested only when such an emergency occurs. It may also be a formal standing agreement for cooperative emergency management on a continuing basis, such as ensuring that resources are dispatched from the nearest fire station, regardless of which side of the jurisdictional boundary the incident is on.
All local fire departments provide mutual aid to each other. So that means the FBFD lends a helping hand to Flagler County, Bunnell, Palm Coast, or even Ormond and in return they lend a helping hand to the FBFD.
You are also overlooking the fact here that this would be a frontline unit and would be used as a “first out” unit on a daily basis. The purpose of the quint is to be dynamic. Running all sorts of calls from emergency medical calls, to fires to hazardous materials.
The FBFD has already put their paid members and part of their volunteer members through the state aerial operations class and all hold or will hold state certifications in the field. Thats more than other departments in the area can say.
This is a fire department that is heading in the right direction now and they are an open door. Walk in the front door and you won’t find a more friendly group than the guys and girls of the FBFD.
This is the way a fire department works, things get old, they break. Sometimes things don’t go as planned. No one expects their house to be on fire at two in the morning right? Sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches and deal with bad decisions that were made on someone else’s time.
As a born and raised, proud, resident of Flagler Beach I say buy the truck, its only going to help.
Its articles like this that tear small towns apart, but I guess y’all have to do something to keep this blog going.
D. Kennedy says
For all of you who do not come by the station and do not know what you’re talking about. The Quint is not going to be bought as a “replacement” for the tower truck. It is a replacement for the engine that is long overdue. Since the tower would be next to replace Capt Pace has decided to get a quint and kill two birds with one stone. So the quint will be our primary truck and the current engine would be a backup.
I beg you please come get actual facts before you write your long rant telling residents to protest.
This truck is a benefit for all residents of Flagler Beach. It’s sad how difficult a handful of people make the department have to fight and beg for basic necessities. Please find something better to do with your time.
What a joke says
Hey Rick did you know that if they were to get the quint it would be responding to all calls including medical and not just fires? Have you taken a look at city’s close by that run quints also? They run medical fire and ALS all out of the quint. One of the biggest issues is people have a misunderstanding of the whole quint concept. Why pay 300k for a pumper when you can get rid of the old aerial buy a quint sell the other older truck then the quint can run all fires, medical calls, and if they decide to go to ALS eventually run ALS calls out of it. Most city’s are going to quints now because they are a multi purpose truck basically two trucks in one. port orange just baught a brand new quint. Flagler Beach has many multi story buildings (high rises) and a quint would suit Flagler Beach people need to quit being so cheap and purchase the right truck for the city’s needs. Flagler county and palm coast have aerial trucks correct but what if they are both on other working fires in the county then what? What for ormond to arrive by then it may be to late. Think closely about it before just running your mouth off to everyone and not looking at the actual FACTS!!!
don'tbuyfrombailedout says
To “what a joke” -go to the monthly MANDATORY meetings at the FB Fire Department. Memory tells me we have 20+ members. I have 10 fingers and 10 toes – didn’t need all of the fingers ( and none of the toes) to count those in the room. The one with the “misunderstanding” appears to be you when you consider the # of times ANY of the Flagler Beach dedicated “fire equipment/trucks” has been used in response to a fire in the last year.
Get the official record from the county. That will let you sleep at night knowing that the surrounding community (not Flagler Beach FD) has saved our Flagler Beach butts with state of the art equipment, 100% fire fighter/paramedics on every vehicle and response times that beat us to our most recent fire at Sally’s. (County ~ 5 miles – FB Fire Department 3 Blocks) Who worked the fire ??? the County – Questions ?
Now – a joint response to Joke and Money – appreciate you defending your friends, relatives/children etc.
however; the $ you play with here are real – not some CLUB you support. We are more than covered by the County (add in Pal Coast, a BIG +) and pay taxes to the County and Flagler beach for the same coverage.
Please go the the records on “Fire only” calls and discover who has done what where and when. LOOK long and hard for “PRIMARY” Flagler Beach Fire Department !!!
Money says
I am curious as to why they wouldn’t respond to medical calls in a quint? The truck is bigger and more suitable for when the department goes ALS and it can also be used as a frontline pumper and an aerial. It’s dynamic. I think they are looking to the future and their growing needs.
don'tbuyfrombailedout says
To “what a joke” -go to the monthly MANDATORY meetings at the FB Fire Department. Memory tells me we have 20+ members. I have 10 fingers and 10 toes – didn’t need all of the fingers ( and none of the toes) to count those in the room. The one with the “misunderstanding” appears to be you when you consider the # of times ANY of the Flagler Beach dedicated “fire equipment/trucks” has been used in response to a fire call in the last year.
Get the official record from the county. That will let you sleep at night knowing that the surrounding community (not Flagler Beach FD) has saved our Flagler Beach butts with state of the art equipment, 100% fire fighter/paramedics on every vehicle and response times that beat us to even our most recent fire at Sally’s. (County ~ 5 miles – FB Fire Department 3 Blocks) Who worked the fire ??? the County – Questions ?
Now – a joint response to Joke and Money – appreciate you defending your friends, relatives/children etc.
however; the $ you play with here are real – not some CLUB you support.
We are more than covered by the County (add in Pal Coast, a BIG +) and pay taxes to the County and Flagler beach for the same coverage.
Please go the the records on “Fire only” calls and discover who has done what where and when. LOOK long and hard for “PRIMARY” Flagler Beach Fire Department !!!
A final thought – since when does a aFlagler Beac City commissioner AND member of the Fire Department (and a Fire Inspector) get to vote on $’s allocated to the FB Fire Department
Add into the mix, it seems as though the city manager is folding to the majority vote .
They are his Boss – But he can push back -if he wants to – he is not going to –Soo SAD – GOVT SUCKS
Retired FF says
Money,
If you take the time to research the response system built into the FCSO dispatch system you will see that any response that would require more than a single engine will automatically bring units from the other fire departments in the county. That means if an aerial truck is required as part of the response then one will be dispatched from either Flagler County or Palm Coast. That being said why then would you have the taxpayers of Flagler Beach spend so much $$ for a truck that is not required. Spend the $$ on a good quality well equipped first run pumper that will serve the City for many years without requiring additional training and expensive annual ladder certification testing. Keep this in mind, if there should be any problem with the aerial portion of the truck the entire truck will need to be removed from service. Then what? No first run truck! Trucks that size require additional height clearance. Wait to see what it will cost you when someone runs it into a big oak branch responding to a medical call. Big Money!
Brian says
The fact of the matter here is that Mr. Pace mentioned the city’s ISO rating and how this new quint truck will help lower that rating….resulting in lower homeowner insurance here in Flagler Beach. Mr. Pace needs to realize that the proximity of two aerial apparatus (PCFD Ladder 25 and FCFR Ladder 41) fhe city of Flagler Beach technically does not need one. Those two ladder trucks count towards our ISO score. Besides, with underground parking by the only buildings for which an aerial wouks be used (The Aliki and the nautilus towera)
As a former member of the FBFD, we fought for years to get a quint truck and the city kept saying no.
I do believe the FBFD nneeds.to close the city checkbook and figure how to staff the ladder truck they have ..
Rick Belhumeur says
So, what you’re saying is that we will have TWO aerials? A quint is a basic necessity? What do you drive, a Ferrari? Long rant? I’m not telling anyone to protest. They can make that decision on their own. I just want people to know what’s actually being proposed under the cover of fire safety equipment and budgetary considerations. Do you pay taxes in this city? What do you drive, a Ferrari?
Rick Belhumeur says
“Flagler Beach people need to quit being so cheap”. Obviously you don’t even pay taxes here. “Port Orange just bought a brand new quint” As for facts… here’s a couple for you: Flagler Beach only has 4,500 people. Port Orange has over twelve times as many people(56,500) and easily ten times the amount of tall buildings.
Truth Seeker says
Rick,
Mr. Kennedy is saying that it is a replacement for the ENGINE. The proposal (if you can even call it that) states it is to replace the Tower. So which is it? Nowhere in there did I see anything about replacing the department’s 1997 Freightliner/Pierce pumper. It said the Tower (1986 Grumman Aerial Cat).
Now, since the department is catching flack, their all on the defensive trying to justify the need. The Port Orange quint was a smart by for a city THAT SIZE, with the adequate manpower. They should be able to tell you all about the truck; it was parked at the station not but two weeks ago on it’s way down to Port Orange from Pierce (the manufacturer).
And lastly, Mr. Kennedy DOES NOT pay Flagler Beach taxes and I can assure you, he is most definitely not driving a Ferrari.
Flagleres55 says
I see a lot of people saying that FBFD wants/ and is going ALS. If everyone is freaking out over a one time cost of a new ladder truck, imagine what its going to be like when they find out the cost of going ALS. Its an on going cost with no money being received due to non transport. Its not cheap and its not just a sticker in the front window. Narcotics and ALS drugs cost money and have a shelf life. How often will these be use when the have an ALS transport unit in the city. Leave the ALS to the county they do a great job!!!
Truth Seeker says
First of all, let me reference ISO for a second. Removing an aerial and replacing it with a quint will not help your ISO, it will hurt it. Right now, FBFD has a front line pumper, a backup pumper and an aerial apparatus. Taking the aerial and the engine and combining will actually hurt the rating, as your essentially removing one of those (take your pick which one) from the picture. This was never mentioned in Mr. Pace’s proposal; the impact, positive or negative, on ISO.
Run the quint for medical calls? Palm Coast tried that with Ladder 25. Ask them how that worked out. They quickly realized the wear and tear on an expensive aerial apparatus for medical calls was unnecessary. Granted, they have the manpower to staff “Medic Units”. If there are so many volunteers staffing days at the fire department, it shouldn’t be difficult to run the “Squad” for medical calls and leave larger, more expensive, costlier-to-mantain apparatus at the station manned with other personnel in the event of a motor vehicle crash, fire, etc. The fact is, Flagler Beach runs about 1,100 calls for service per year. Of those, about 85% are medical. On average, Flagler Beach responds to 1 (at best) WORKING structure fire per year and maybe 1-2 outside the city limits. To say “buy a quint, we’ll run it first out” is absolutely insane.
“What a joke” also states that “Flagler Beach has many multi story buildings (high rises) and a quint would suit Flagler Beach”. Ok, let me clarify something. The city’s current 95′ tower ladder can accommodate two personnel working from the bucket. This new quint only allows 1 firefighter to work from the tip at a time. So it’s half as effective with manpower and it’s 20′ shorter. Hmm. The current ladder truck is effective for most of the homes 2 or more stories in the city but is effectively useless with high-rise structures in Flagler Beach. Almost all have parking garages in front, or around the structure underground; forbidding an aerial device with that much weight to operate close enough to reach anything more than the 2nd – 3rd floor at BEST.
Oh, and one more thing. Since it is VERY CLEAR that people like “What a joke” are someone affiliated with the FBFD, it would probably be wise to A.) not criticize city leaders and/or officials and B.) insult the citizens who not only pay your salary but also are going to be weighing heavily on whether or not the city funds this ridiculous request.
Rick Belhumeur says
If they need to send an aerial for a medical call… Then it’s not a medical call. Be realistic, use a smaller truck set up for medical regencies. My research tells me that a quint has a limited amount of space for equipment. A single axle is limited by GVW(gross vehicle weight) If it is set up for medical emergencies, that limits the amount of fire fighting equipment there is room for. It also carries less water than a first responding pumper could. In the end, fire fighting apparatus don’t put out fires, firefighters do. Dynamics have nothing to do with it!
Money says
All fire apparatus have limited room for equipment. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that. The quint has five different fireground purposes and can be used for medical emergencies also. Firefighters do put out fires, but it is pretty damn hard to effectively put out a fire without the right tools, but you most certainly wouldn’t know that. Every first responder in the nation knows that you have to be prepared for anything when responding to any call, no matter the ty The whole fire service is dynamic. Dynamics have everything to do with it.
Money says
Flagler County Fire Rescue and the Palm Coast Fire Department along with thousands of other departments respond to medical calls in their aerials every day, they must not be running medical calls either.
All fire apparatus have limited room for equipment. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that. The quint has five different fireground purposes and can be used for medical emergencies also.
Firefighters do put out fires, but it is pretty damn hard to effectively put out a fire without the right tools, but you most certainly wouldn’t know that.
Every first responder in the nation knows that you have to be prepared for anything when responding to any call, no matter the type.
But youre right the fire service isn’t dynamic. In fact it hasn’t changed a bit. That’s why firefighters are still riding around in horse drawn carriages and fighting fire with buckets. Yeah no, the whole fire service is dynamic and ever changing. Dynamics have everything to do with it.
ThreeEighty says
“Don’t buy” you should rethink your last post a few. FBFD was first to the fire as Sally’s. And worked the fire until the afternoon the following day.
What a joke says
Hey truth seeker I am not a member of the fbfd nor a city employee . I support the FBFD and have knowledge in the fire service and have sat in commission meetings in FB. Half of the people such as yourself have little knowledge on what they are talking about and should go to the fire dept and get the actual facts on the plans for the truck!!! But I will agree with part of flaglerlives comment and dkennedys comment also.
PCresident says
Bobby Pace is a criminal (so says his convictions record) and he would not be a fire anything, anywhere else in the United States. So, when he proposes anything, I am not so sure I can effectively see his proposals and I am pretty sure I do not want him in my home regardless if it is on fire. Let it burn down, at least I will know I did not have a criminal from the fire department in my home whose morals should be called into question.
The truck/equipment/whatever you want to call it: If you have lived in the area of the ocean for any reasonable amount of time, you will understand that the salty air takes its toll on anything metal. Do you guys plan on storing this aerial apparatus in a sealed compartment? You will surely spend more money in maintenance than you will with any other apparatus in the fire service. Your $600,000 dollars is the upfront start up cost. It does not include the annual cost to operate. You are removing a vehicle that gets 10 mpg down to a truck that gets 4 mpg it is not as economical just in the daily operational costs. This does not take into account the annual tests required for this apparatus.
Manpower: FBFD DOES NOT have the proper staffing at that department to consider staffing any aerial apparatus at all. NFPA standard 1710 (The standard for Organization and Deployment of Fire Service Suppression Operations) states that a minimum of four (4) personnel should be required for all aerial apparatus. You are lucky to have half, let alone half that are trained to be on this apparatus. Then we move into do they have the experience. Anyone can hold a certificate, but this still does not mean they can actually operate this apparatus effectively (kind of like being a paramedic, many can have the certificate, but not all will be a decent paramedic)!
Be happy with a new front line pumper as indicated in the posts above. As one of the posts above stated, what happens when this “quint” is down due to service? You have now taken the entire operation out of service. I am sure Bobby Pace has thought of this before the people in this post have posted this correct? Oh, yeah, someone who has only been in the fire service for 5 years may not think of something like this.
ALS: Please, don’t even think for a minute that running a bunch of people through paramedic school is going to give you quality paramedics who need to be running calls and pushing medications in life threatening emergencies. The last thing you want is a bunch of people obtaining a certificate and then working on an ALS engine, where you could be by yourself for any period of time waiting on an ambulance with the real paramedics to bail you out of your mistakes you just made. It’s scary to ponder this notion. Leave this up to the county who has been doing this for a very long time and have quality paramedics, matter of fact, the best paramedics in the world!
Lastly, do not get onto this web forum and start bashing the people who pay your salaries. What in the world are you people thinking? I imagine Bobby Pace is one of these posts above by his inability to write an effective sentence. Rick is an involved citizen who is looking at this as a citizen. Bashing him about his thought process as a citizen is the worst thing you can do as a public employee. Rick might be on your side on other aspects of your department and support your mission; now he probably doesn’t since you clowns have bashed him. He is not totally out there for writing this letter, he has a vested interest in ensuring his tax dollars are spent in the checks and balances set forth in the budget process of the city.
don'tbuyfrombailedout says
ThreeEighty – You are correct – It was the First First for FB FD in quite a while. I stand corrected
farmer says
i believe the overriding nepotism, carrousing previously and general miss conduct makes any of the fire personal comments suspects at best. County should take the nepotism infested deal.
Truth Seeker says
You’re right, clearly my previous posts show my lack of knowledge. If I were to maybe write a list of valid questions and/or concerns, would it be safe to assume that your “knowledge of the fire service” and experience from those oh-so-informative commission meetings would enable you to answer them?
I mean, after all, clearly people such as Rick and myself have no knowledge of the fire service, right?
Former FCFR Vol FF says
@Money — I agree with you 100%. One thing that I will add that has not been mentioned (at least not that I saw) is that not only would it be a front line truck and used in Mutual Aid responses. Flagler Beach has quite a few high rise condo’s, not to mention Palm Coast and even our neighbor to the south Ormond By the Sea and Ormond Beach. Quints or Aerials may be an “expensive & useless” investment to some … That is until they, who live in one of the many High Rises located in Flagler County suddenly have a fire at their High Rise and really need the Quint but is only met with an Engine.