Driving gas-powered cars will eventually be considered as damaging and irresponsible as smoking cigarettes. So my next car will be somewhere between hybrid and fully electric. My PlugShare app mapping out where I could power it up outside of my home shows all of six locations in Flagler County, four of them in Palm Coast, within a small radius of City Hall, like AdventHealth and Wawa: not exactly hangout type places. There are none in Flagler Beach or Bunnell.
No wonder the two spots at Palm Coast City Hall are always in use. They make me almost nostalgic for the days of Jim Landon, who had the foresight to put them there. Tesla’s Model Y, an electric vehicle, is the fastest-selling car in the world. But Flagler County, this self-deluded mecca of economic development, is not only an electric vehicle charging station desert. It is actually hostile to electric vehicles.
It is sending a loud and shrill message to tourists and forward-looking businesses and the residents they’d bring along: we like to fossilize. Progress is elsewhere. No wonder all we’re attracting are Medicare mendiants whose prime hummed to the knocks of leaded gas and tailfinned Eldorados.
In March Palm Coast hired Maeven Rogers as its first chief sustainability and resiliency officer. Rogers got to work applying one of the city’s own goals: to improve the city’s electric vehicle infrastructure. Yes, it’s an actual goal. She developed the Flagler Regional Electrification Coalition, involving Palm Coast, Flagler Beach, Bunnell and the school district, all at the staff level, to take on what she described in her report as “a transformative journey towards a cleaner and more sustainable future.”
She found a federal grant that would provide up to $15 million to build charging stations in the county, and got administrative agreement to locate those new stations in Flagler Beach and elsewhere, on public grounds. Customers charging their vehicles would have had to pay. The local governments would not, unless they chose to shoulder a 20 percent match and take revenue from the charging stations themselves–not a bad way to start generating new revenue.
Getting the grant was almost a certainty. The Biden administration is making it extremely easy to secure them. But that’s the rub. When Rogers presented the plan, first to the County Commission, then to her own City Council, both snubbed it and her. They said the city shouldn’t undercut private business. They said gas stations will build charging stations. Two county commissioners actually said that no one is buying electric vehicles, and one of them said they’re dangerous in big storms. (He was referring to the cars, not to commissioners.)
What all of them were saying, what all of these Republicans were saying, is that they didn’t want to participate in a Biden administration grant program. It was as simple as that, even though they had no problem devouring tens of millions of dollars in Covid aid, back when they could confuse it with left-overs from the Trump administration.
The argument about not undercutting the free market was a cloak, at once the strongest-sounding reason, because no one looks past the bumper-sticker sloganeering, but also the weakest on every count. Governments not only undercut the free market at every turn. The free market, especially the fossil-fuels free market, would not exist without government. It is neither free nor much of a market. It’s an organized set of monopolies ultimately dependent on government oiling the profit machine with public money.
You don’t even have to look to the billions in subsidies that federal and state governments give the oil and gas industries. Every time government builds a road, paves a road, enlarges a road or adds a beltway, it’s using tax dollars to make sure all those gas guzzlers have a place to go. Car makers, gas stations, auto part stores and their many other co-dependent industries don’t have to lift a finger: government does it for them. It’s assumed. That part of the market is as socialist a covenant as it gets. We just don’t define it that way.
In Flagler County, we’re obviously stuck to that model. Palm Coast is burdened with something like a $50 million backlog to keep its streets in good repairs. Flagler Beach has no idea how it’s going to keep accommodating onslaughts of tourists and visitors on its sliver of an island. But here’s an opportunity to adopt a new revenue model–to start seeing electric charging stations as both a boon to business and tourism and to government revenue, and what do Palm Coast and the county do? Rear back to the equivalent of horse and buggy thinking as they moan about not wanting to undercut gas stations’ chance to have EV power stations.
Gas stations will be a thing of the past because gas will be a thing of the past (as will the massive pollution they entail). There will not be power-up stations. There will be parking spaces with power stations for parking meters. You could have them all along portions of A1A in Flagler Beach. You could have them along the entirety of the downtown core. You could have them on every public ground. You could conceive of an entirely new way to generate revenue, cutting out emissions and space-guzzling gas stations. That’s not undercutting them. It’s moving toward a cleaner, more responsible future while exercising a government’s right, finally, to its due share of revenue to keep those roads and rights of way in good order.
Getting a cut from electric charging stations would be no different than the current franchise fee structure that allows governments to take a huge cut from the revenue of electric or cable or any other companies that use public rights of way. The grant Rogers was proposing would have been an infinitesimally small but keystone of a step toward that future, opening a door for governments to recast the way they generate revenue for roads and other public works needs while moving the nation toward its goal of lower carbon emissions (assuming the current administration’s goals aren’t nullified by the next president).
As grants go, the city and the county could hardly have done better than the EV charging initiative. All they’d have had to do is devote a couple of parking spaces at the library, at the new southern recreational facility, at Holland Park and a few other places. They could have even partnered with private companies to give them a share of the goods. It would have been a boon to the local economy, making Flagler more attractive to the increasing number of tourists who drive electric vehicles, and would have invited more local residents to adopt cleaner habits, in a state where we see the effects of global warming and rising seas daily.
Instead, our local elected officials armed themselves with all sorts of luddite misinformation about electric vehicles and set Flagler County back many years because they couldn’t see past ideology.
Maeven Rogers of course was stunned by that outcome. But she’s new to Flagler County. She’ll get used to it, assuming she stays. Then again, given our embrace of backwardness, she may not have a future here anymore than the future does.
Pierre Tristam is FlaglerLive’s editor. A version of this piece aired on WNZF.
Shelly says
Keep spreading propaganda about electric vehicles instead of the truth. EV’s didn’t work in the past.
Pierre Tristam says
You’re right. But we’re in the present now.
The Sour Kraut says
Well, SOME us are anyway.
RUSSELL A SMITH says
I don’t think EV’s are the answer. Too many problems. Battery materials for example. How do we get rid of used batteries? Fire and HAZ MAT during collision. Frequent charging, electric is not free. I know that is all the Rage but…?
Pierre Tristam says
Those are valid snd serious problems, but they’re solvable, technological problems. We’re not talking fission here. We’re dealing with a developing and developable technology. The more important focus for our local governments, I think, ought to be on recognizing the strategic shift under way, and capitalizing on it rather than obstructing it with sticks-and-stones (or fossilized, outdated) thinking.
oldstone17 says
Even e-bike lithium batteries are being banned from being brought into multi-unit buildings. i.e. NY fires. your right solvable, but not ready for mass indoctrination. everyone keeps mentioning backwards and lack of forward thinking. Has anyone looked around and seen the impact of progress for progess. There is a whole generation lost to social media which will dramatically change over the next 5 years because of the emotional and educational impact it has had on the test generation. They say believe in the science but can’t define a woman? Not trying to turn this political but everyone needs to take a step back and really understand how the whole EV industry works. And if everyone is not for it, it is ok, slow progress is good. Don’t kid yourself the environmental impact:
https://jpt.spe.org/greenland-says-no-to-oil-but-yes-to-mining-metals-for-evs
Scott Massey says
Most of those fires were caused by user not reading their manuals. They leave the chargers online all the time and the battery overheats. True, smarter chargers are available to prevent overcharging but most don’t read warnings or perform due-diligence research before they buy.
Just like Model A Fords that had the gas tanks just behind the dashboard caused many fires in seemingly minor accidents, these problems are easy to fix. By the way, car overcharging fires are next to nil. Their chargers are much better.
oldstone17 says
Not true at all. You are right there are idiots out there but most of the fires were caused by thermal runaway which is a inherit problem with lithium batteries. This is why NY is putting a ban on e-bike storage and charging within multi unit buildings and it can not be carried as cargo on planes. It is not always the users fault!
Bartholomew says
Tesla is making non rare earth batteries now, according to Musk. That is coming from Elon and he says a lot of things that are kinda wishful
Bill C says
Lithium batteries from EV’s are up to 90% recyclable. The insurance site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100k sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles. Then there’s all that gasoline, oil, antifreeze, emissions…
Oldstone says
Where does the electric come from to charge your “electric vehicles”? Pretty sure a majority comes from a coal burning plant somewhere. Have you seen the mines they have to dig to get material for lithium batteries? Much worse than fossil fuels. Electric cars are a joke. Just another blip on the screen. The real future is traveling like The Jetsons. Also your political slant in this brings into question your judgement. That’s what I love about Florida. Rules by the people not big brother 😁
M.N. Stevens says
Two Letters of the alphabet describes the E.V.
DEMOCRATS theory.
B.S.. Enough said.
Kenneth J Stowe says
Hurray go you, nothing to add really just insults to hurl. Forward thinking, is not theory, it’s currently achievable reality. 2 EVs + 1 solar array to supply all the power I need for both my house and my vehicles. Nay sayers seem to me to be just, keep payers. Keep enriching the oil and power companies genius.
oldstone17 says
can I ask what you have invested into these 2 EVs and solar array? is it 150k, 250k, 300k. Just because you have them doesn’t mean it made financial sense. Please explain the numbers for us all to understand?
Sherry says
@oldstone. . . you are certainly right. . . the “Power Plants” absolutely MUST catch up and use CLEAN RENEWABLE power instead of ANY fossil fuel! Let’s not blame electric vehicles because the power plants (often controlled by local political governments) are corrupt, and stuck in the last century, in their decision making.
Sherry says
Priceless Pierre! LOL!
Robjr says
MAGA hat must be on too tight.
M.N. Stevens says
The Government does not have a job, it relies on tax payers. We pay for all these grants and dept you Democrats expend. You need to study history and not ideology. Where does the electricity come from on your fantasy asinine thoughts.
Sherry says
Hey shelly tell that completely foolish drivel to the over 1 million Tesla owners. . . who are laughing at you who cannot get out of the 1950’s! You are just so mindless and “last century”! LOL! LOL! LOL!
@ mns. . . That apparently also goes for you as well.
Sherry says
Hey shelly tell that completely foolish drivel to the over 1 million Tesla owners. . . who are laughing at you who cannot get out of the 1950’s! You are just so mindless and “last century”! LOL! LOL! LOL!
R.S. says
Neither did gasoline burners until the infrastructure of filling stations was developed. I fact, I think that was the last comment of the horse and buggy owners about automobiles also, wasn’t it? Thank you for your insightful and realistice essay, Pierre.
Rookie says
EV’s will never work. The damage to the planet created in the manufacturing process is worse than any gas powered car will ever do. How do you propose to pay for roads with an EV since roads are paid for by gas taxes? How do you propose to dispose of the batteries of an EV when needed? No questions have been answered but a rogue Federal Government has lied to you and once again you believe it hook line and sinker.
Dennis C Rathsam says
Not a fan of electric cars, I will never own one. By the time thier perfected…I.ll be dead. America like the rest of the world relies oil! The only thing these cars do is make China rich. Wheres the plan after the batteries are dead? These cars are heavy, they tear up the roads with thier extreme weight. Its a novel idea for a grocery getter, but not as a family traveler. Our electric grid as it stands now, can not withstand all these plug in cars, unless you want rolling blackouts, like California. I guess Im old fashion, but its not my cup of tea. And since they dont buy gas, they dont pay toward the road taxes. And besides who,s got 60 grand now a days to piss away on a car? We just trying to servive, with the cost of everything doubling, putting food on the table is more important than keeping up with the Jones,s!
DaleL says
The Inflation Reduction Act provided strong incentives for electric vehicles to be manufactured in North America. The drive batteries must also be manufactured in North America and the critical materials must be from our free trade partners in order for the vehicle to qualify for the $7,500 tax credit. Rather than make China rich, the IRA is expected to have the opposite effect. Politico: “Forget tariffs. Biden’s actions to crack down on Beijing’s tech development will do more to hinder the Chinese economy — and divide the two nations — than Trump ever did.” https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/26/china-trade-tech-00072232
oldstone17 says
The Inflation Reduction act is a joke. No car manufacturer can meet these demands. How can we manufacture batteries in North America if China has all the natural material needed to build them? Woohoo $ 7,500 tax credit to make China the most powerful country in the world. That’s a win for us?
DaleL says
All Tesla Model 3 and Model Y cars fully meet the requirements. The Ford F-150 Lightning fully meets the requirements. The Ford Mach-e qualifies for 1/2 of the $7,500. The Chattanooga built ID.4 fully meets the requirements. For the full list, go to: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml
Interestingly, Cars.com has released its list of “most made in America” vehicles based on point of assembly and the content of the vehicles. Tesla and Honda dominate. There isn’t one GM or Ford on the list. https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/
Oldstone says
Hmm. CNN says the number of cars able to qualify will actually go down and the bill is very complicated and probably won’t ever meet it’s goal. Not great bill, that will have no impact because when the subsidies stop so will building of taxpayer paid for EV cars. Also the price of EVs has gone up more than the tax credit sine the introduction of the bill so the only one really benefitting is the manufacturers who are building these cars for massive losses.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/31/business/biden-ev-tax-credits-explained-climate/index.html
Sherry says
@oldstone. . . you do realize that all you are doing is “mindlessly” posting FOX disinformation, right?
Oldstone says
Fox. Lol. I haven’t watched Fox in years. It is more left than CNN at this point. Again if these things made sense they all wouldn’t need massive bribes to push an agenda that is inefficient financially and functionally at this point.
Ford cut an additional 3,800 jobs in Europe in early 2023 as a cost cutting measure to support its electric vehicle pivot after missing its earnings expectations by $1.1 billion in the fourth quarter of 2022.
Ford’s electric vehicle division lost $722 million in the first three months of 2023, costing the company more than $60,000 per car sold. The company’s electric vehicle division is on track for roughly $3 billion in yearly losses
Mischa Gee says
I am with you on this. Lithium mining is polluting the areas where it is mined and the water it pollutes doesn’t stay in one place.
The batteries add excess weight to the vehicles, and the more of those vehicles that are on the roads, the more wear and tear to the roads. Our infrastructure is falling apart nationwide, and repairing it comes with it’s own set of problems including pollution and covering costs.
Next, when you plug in your car, you are simply relocating the pollution coming out of the vehicle tailpipe, to the higher level of pollution being spewed into the atmosphere at our energy plants, which burn coal, natural gas and fuel oil. Those plants will make living near them a “deadzone” where higher incident of respiratory illnesses will increase.
Many of those plants are already being maxed out by increases in all types of chargeable devices from phones, tablets and laptops to lawn and construction equipment.
It takes much longer to charge an all electric vehicle than it does to add gas then the tank, so people will have to know how far they are going before they leave their home and be sure they have time to stop and charge their car if they deviate and go farther than expected. Otherwise they will be stuck, losing valuable time, waiting for their vehicle to recharge.
I am all for protecting the environment and reducing our carbon footprint, but electric vehicles that don’t self charge while in operation are a joke, like recycling plastic has become.
Yo says
You are a serial complainer.
Please stop
Monica Campana says
You would rather support the murderous Saudi’s and Russians when there are alternatives being developed that could make the US economic energy and innovative leaders?
Mischa Gee says
Dear Monica, we export our oil for a larger profit that it costs us to import oil. It’s a capitalist world we live in. We turn our heads when it’s profitable to do so. Reality can be very unattractive.
Jackson1955 says
These idiots always vote against their interests. SMH.
jeffery seib says
When the country moved from the horse and buggy to the Model-T all the nay-sayers said it wouldn’t last. Early versions of EV vehicles are like a horse and buggy compared to the newest models. Efficiency in charging, safety, and long-lasting batteries the new EV’s are rolling off all the automakers assembly lines. Recently, GM and Tesla agreed to utilize the same charging mechanism, and soon all EV’s will be able to charge anywhere. This is a no-brainer, going forward EV’s will be making up an increasing share of all vehicles out on the road. The grant would have paid for the installation of the charging stations and the city would receive revenue from vehicles charging up. Oh, and by the way, our air would be cleaner as time would have gone by. The cities Beautification and Environmental Advisory Committee presented plans for multi-family developments and businesses to receive incentives for installing EV charging stations and city staff quickly buried those plans. It’s not political, it’s environmental.
oldstone17 says
Again where does all the electric for these charging stations come from? COAL PLANTS. And why should the government receive revenue from this or any commercial venture. That is not their job. Solar is decades away from making any impact, wind power is a joke (dead whales on NJ beaches), so reality check, your battery operated cars make the coal plants burn, burn, burn for your charging stations and still need fossil fuel to be fully functional. If it made sense they would not need a 15 million dollar bribe. Can’t wait to pull over for 25 minutes to charge my car when I can fill my tank in about 4 minutes start to finish. The hype is here but the science is light years behind.
The Fastest Electric Car Charging
Hands down, the quickest way to get your electric car charged up and back on the road is at a public DC Fast Charger station or Tesla Supercharger station (that uses the company’s proprietary plug and isn’t compatible with other brands). Both options rely on high voltage direct current using 120 kilowatts (around 600 amps) to get your car juiced up as quickly as possible. Though you’ll probably have to pay up to $20 per hour of charging, these stations will charge your vehicle anywhere from 16 to 32 times faster than at home. Fast charging will get most electric cars from 10% charge to 80% in 25 minutes or less.
DaleL says
Ford, GM, and Rivan have reached an agreement with Tesla and adopted the NACS (Tesla plug) for their future EVs. Existing EVs will be able to use the Tesla Superchargers with a plug adapter. Tesla is making available CCS compatible adapter equipped Superchargers in some locations.
Most electricity in this area of Florida (FPL) comes from natural gas (68%), nuclear (20%), and solar (3.7%). Very little is from coal.
People with electric vehicles never go to a public charger unless they are on a trip. People with gasoline fueled vehicles have to stop by a gas station every week or so. It may take just “4 minutes” to fuel up, but it takes time to drive to and into the station, even if it is along a regularly used route.
Denali says
Get off the coal train ! ! ! In the the years from 2011 to 2021 the number of coal fired power plants decreased by over 40% (290 plants closed) Coal accounts for 19% of our energy production, down 4% in the last 2 years. Natural Gas is at 38% with the balance from hydro, wind and solar. Coal is dying a long overdue death.
oldstone17 says
Is it. Are you sure about that? The US will be moving back in this direction also. Maybe not as many but new more efficient ones will come online eventually, like it or not. Don’t shoot me, I’m just the messenger.
https://www.wqln.org/npr-news/npr-news/2023-03-02/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-finds?gclid=Cj0KCQjwy9-kBhCHARIsAHpBjHigrTVGwq23ak56pgRl3qz_jDaJdayax32bQKBSugWlETxJ12CNWPEaAiSwEALw_wcB
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/18/business/coal-power-climate-crisis/index.html
DaleL says
oldstone, did you actually read the stories that you linked to? Neither one supports your claim that coal is going to be the major source of electricity in the future, even in China.
From the npr-news story on China: “Champenois says the surge in permits last year could be China’s coal industry seizing upon a last chance to get financing for new coal plants, which are increasingly uneconomical compared to renewables.”
From the two year old CNN story: “The EIA said the rise of coal generation in the United States “will most likely not continue.” The report forecasts a 5% decline in US coal-fired generation in 2022 due to the retirement of coal-fired units and slightly lower natural gas prices.”
Ray W. says
Thank you, DaleL.
A simple review of various sources shows that the most recent coal-fired plant to be built in the U.S. opened in 2013 in Texas. There are zero U.S. coal-fired plants in the works. None in the application stage. None in the permitting stage. None in the financing stage. None in the construction stage. The simple truth is that in America, coal-fired plants are no longer economically feasible.
The most efficient coal-fired plant in America converts 42% of the energy it burns into usable electricity. The overall U.S. coal-fired fleet averages a 37.4% conversion rate. The most efficient coal-fired plant in the world (China) converts 47.82% of the burnt coal into usable electricity. In 2020, a brand-new Japanese combined cycle natural gas plant opened with a provable 64% conversion of the energy contained in the gas into usable electricity. These latest model combined cycle Mitsubishi J-frame turbines, in testing, are approaching 66% conversion efficiency.
Many of the least efficient coal-fired plants in the U.S. that have not yet been shut down operate only during the two peak electricity seasons – June through August and December through February. Why pay more to use coal-fired plants in the off-season when it is far cheaper to use natural gas?
Perhaps, a little history might help clarify the long and accelerating decline of coal-fired plants in America.
In 1988, when total U.S. electricity production was at 2.708 billion kWh, coal accounted for 57% of the total.
In 2007, when total U.S. electricity production had climbed to 4.157 billion kWh, total coal production peaked at 2.016 billion kWh, or just under 50% of the total. The decline had already started.
In 2022, when total U.S. electricity production had climbed to 4.243 billion kWh, total coal production provided 19.5% of the total, which is a statistically significant decline over just 15 years.
The EIA predicts that approximately one-third of current U.S. coal-fired capacity in America will shut down by 2029, mainly due to economic inefficiencies. When FP&L advertises that it charges 30% less per kWh than the average U.S. utility charges, it is because FP&L began shifting away from coal towards natural gas some three decades ago. Several years ago, FP&L faced a one-time economic choice. It held long-term contracts with four coal-fired plants, signed before advances in combined cycle gas turbine plants made the contracts prohibitively expensive. Bound to the contracts, FP&L simply bought all four plants and shut them down.
Combined cycle gas turbine efficiencies will continue to improve (current experiments involve mixing hydrogen with natural gas to improve efficiencies), wind turbine efficiencies will improve, utility-grade solar panels will continue to drop in price (they are already cheaper than natural gas plants and far cheaper than coal plants).
Perhaps in China, with a somewhat centrally managed economy, those new coal-fired plants on which oldstone17 builds his or her argument can be built and operated, regardless of the economic cost when compared to the alternatives.
From that perspective, oldstone17 might be right, if only barely so. But what if oldstone17 is missing the entire premise behind China’s decision to build coal-fired plants?
China has significant coal reserves (4th in the world) and the infrastructure to utilize coal purchased from abroad. What China does not have is ample domestic supplies of natural gas; it has to import much of its LNG from abroad (Yes, one Russia to China natural gas pipeline exists, and a second one is in the discussion phase). When any new electricity generating plant opens, regardless of type, it is likely to operate for 50 years or more, so long-term availability of fuel is important in the planning phase.
What if China actually carries through on its open and repeated threat to invade Taiwan? China cannot predict or control what might happen if it builds too many natural gas plants and then can’t obtain enough LNG on the world market if it acts on the Taiwan scenario.
It makes far more sense for China to build numerous new coal plants and mine its domestic coal or import it by an existing rail infrastructure from Russia (2nd largest coal reserves in the world behind the U.S.), if it is actually planning to invade Taiwan.
In that setting, the gullible oldstone17 just might be missing the entire point of China’s long-term energy plans when it announces plans to build significant numbers of new coal-fired plants. Cost-efficiency just might not be the most important factor in China’s long-term plans.
DaleL says
Very good, if perhaps a bit long analysis. It is interesting how the anti-EV crowd will point out the environmental damage that can be caused by lithium mines or uranium mines, and completely ignore the enormously disparate environmental damage caused by coal mining.
One rather alarming fact is that “Coal Ash Is More Radioactive than Nuclear Waste”. Yet coal ash is not regulated as a radioactive waste! http://large.stanford.edu/publications/power/references/hvistendahl/
Mark says
Thank you Ray!!
Skibum says
It is delusional for anyone to think that the oil and gas industry owners and operators of gas stations are going to somehow sign on to providing EV charging stations for alternate energy vehicles that will eventually result in the potential demise of that very industry, or at least the internal combustion engine powered vehicles the industry and all of its associated business rely on for their very survival. As the infant EV market grows and becomes more of a threat to the conglomerates of the oil and gas industry, you should expect that industry to respond by becoming more hostile to anything that appears to be EV related, just like it did in the early days of Henry Ford when automakers acquired the rights to electric vehicle engineering and technology, and then promptly buried it to save their own asses. But getting back to the heart of this article, I agree that it was a bone-headed, backward thinking move for the city council to refuse the federal grant to provide new EV charging stations. The city might just as well have put up billboards along I-95 telling anyone not from around here to just keep on driving, nothing to see here in Palm Coast. Wow, what a missed opportunity when instead of that, Palm Coast, as this so-called hub of technological innovation and forward thinking, would have been positioned to be included in the EV charging station apps on EVERY Android AND Apple smartphone, not to mention the vehicle navigation systems for every electric vehicle manufacturer in the western hemisphere. But instead, the City of Palm Coast chose to be like Ma and Pa Kettle back on the farm. You guys probably didn’t even finish reading this because you needed to get up off your rocking chairs to go feed the chickens back yonder.
Jason says
I have a Tesla, and there are chargers at Wawa off 100, there are charge point chargers at the city building, and a lot of gas stations have chargers and the expected gas pumps. I drive down to bucees in Daytona and now up to Bucees in st Augustine because they have Tesla superchargers now. All gas stations with the exception of maybe the smaller mom and pop ones will likely have at least one chargepoint charger in the near future. Hell all they really need to provide is a 50 amp breaker and a pay as you go power meter like they have in Europe and I can use my adapter to charge lol.
oldstone17 says
so what your saying is we don’t need a 15 million dollar grant because you can go to a commercial enterprise and get the same thing? wow. revolutionary!
djwhite077 says
Except for your grossly biased and misinformed statement for which I think you should apologize “No wonder all we’re attracting are Medicare mendiants whose prime hummed to the knocks of leaded gas and tailfinned Eldorados.” you are 150% spot on with everything else, Pierre. I and my 42 year old EV owning son were especially offended, as were some of the other EV owners I chatted with while charging at Wawa…all of whom were obviously much younger than me and even my son!! The real shame of it all is that besides the ideology our local elected officials all seem to be stricken with, the EV revolution is no longer a revolution…not when so many EV’s are now being sold much cheaper than the soon to be extinct petro guzzlers https://www.autotrader.com/best-cars/10-cheapest-evs
Our politicians apparently don’t read the news and keep themselves informed very well either or they would know that according to an article on Inside EVs, the following automakers have announced plans to be more than 50% electric in sales by 2030: General Motors, Ford, Stellantis, Volkswagen Group, Volvo Cars, BMW Group, Daimler AG . Ideology comes first.
And while in many ways, some other states and locales are even more conservative and backward in their ideology, some–like Kentucky and Tennessee–are leaving Florida in the dust and forever dependent on our low wage tourist and retiree driven economy by looking forward to and embracing the future. Ford and SK Innovation are building two electric battery plants in Glendale, Kentucky, as part of a joint venture called BlueOvalSK. The plants will supply batteries for Ford’s electric vehicles, including the F-150 Lightning, E-Transit, and Mustang Mach-E. The project will cost $5.8 billion and create 5,000 jobs. https://www.wuky.org/wuky-in-depth/2021-10-11/what-ky-did-right-to-land-5-8-billion-ford-sk-battery-deal
But this didn’t just happen overnight: the State of Kentucky purchased this 1600 acres of land back in the 1990’s and attempted to incentivize Hyundai to build there. Those politicos decided that it was much better to build their economies permanently rather than build them by pushing down trees and destroying habitat and building condos’s and duplexes in order to pack more people in with their build it and they will come mentality. Unfortunately, politics got in the way there, too, and Kentucky was a little too slow and ultimately lost that deal to Montgomery, Alabama. But they learned from their mistakes, held onto that property and yippee…fast forward to today.
Sadly…this area that has been my residence all my life–Volusia and Flagler–is still in so many ways as backward in its thinking and politics as when I was growing up and I don’t expect that to change before I meet my Maker.
Waiting for your apology, Pierre, I am grateful to you for once again, calling it like you see it and telling the truth that will surely offend many!!
Pierre Tristam says
I don’t make it a habit to report or write anything for which I should apologize. The proportion of 65+ in Palm Coast/Flagler has increased from around 24 percent to over 30 percent in the last decade or so. The Medicare generation—this Medicare generation—is the greediest generation: it has benefited the most in government largesse but from the Reagan follies to their flowering in the triple cocktail of the Bush years, the tea parties and Trump, it is the most anti-government generation we’ve ever had, a hypocrisy that now powers the sort of reaction we saw from our all-Republican elected on those two local governments: mendiants indeed. They take, take, take, only to spit and sneer at the very things that seek to make a difference for us all. We owe the endless regressions on climate change policy, tax policy, education policy etc. to them in large part. Of course and thank heavens the greediest aren’t a monolith. But their political obtuseness and selfishness is damaging enough even in parts. These Wall-e like graspers are the only ones who owe an apology.
Ed says
How can you group all 65+ “seniors” as greedy and benefiting the most from government. We built upon the foundation of freedom and fought and died for what you hate so much about this country. We did not control anything just like you don’t.
Here’s a fun fact. I raised 6 children and put all of them through college including a couple of maters degrees and a PHD without any loans or government help. I never received any government rebate or give away. In fact the tax codes of the 70s and 80s were such that high income earners were excluded from most tax breaks or right offs even for dependent allowances for children. If you were housing, clothing, and feeding 8 people in your household do you think $300,000-$400,000 a year makes you rich? Look at the per capita amount.
Here is my point, I paid in the maximum social security amount for 48 conservative years and since there is no max for Medicare, paid way more then I should have had to pay. (It is not capped)
Hence, I can not live long enough to greedily claw back my fair share from social security…if I could have invested those same dollars, I conservatively believe it would now exceed $10 million.
And check with your financial advisors, anyone with large 401k or iras will pay income taxes along with Irma for social security benefits when the RMD kicks in when it is mandated you have to take our money out of the retirement accounts at age 73. Meaning up to 38 percent taxed plus $576/ month for Irma. Greed?
So anyone who did everything right, saved and scrimped and took nothing and put away a large nest egg is now financially penalized. Please follow the money and just maybe your lopsided view may change. Ask an expert about my post. Edify yourself.
We are not all the same. I’m not offended, just amazed every day I wake up.
Al says
Wow, just wow sir…your animosity toward ALL people over 65 is troubling….thanks so much…holy moly
Pierre Tristam says
No, not all. Just those civic-busting hypocrites that gave us Reagan and that sclerosis-addicted cocktail that followed.
Jan Manilla says
I beg to differ, Mr. Tristam. You apparently have nothing but disdain for senior citizens. In your opening paragraphs you did not qualify that the comments toward the “Medicare mendicants” were only geared toward the “civic-busting hypocrites that gave us Reagan and the sclerosis-addicted cocktail that followed”. No, instead you said “No wonder all we’re attracting are Medicare mendiants whose prime hummed to the knocks of leaded gas and tailfinned Eldorados.” I certainly did not see any qualifiers in that sentence. I hope and pray that when you are in the 65+age bracket, people don’t paint you and your cohorts with the ugly, arrogant broad brush that you seem so eager to do.
You could have made a very strong point for EV charging stations and the lack of forethought in the county, one in which most readers would wholeheartedly agree with. But instead you sidetracked your assessment of EV charging stations by insulting a generation of people as though we ALL drank from a corrupt cup.
djwhite077 says
Thank you, Jan. Agreed!! I learned early in my youth that it is always dangerous, wrong and unfair to lump everyone into one pot regardless of the issue(s).
Tom says
Shouldn’t the word be “mendicant” (a beggar) not “mendiant” (a traditional French confection)? I belong to that generation and could not agree more with you.
Pierre Tristam says
Mendiant can be used either way, and is both French and English for beggar. To get into the stylistic weeds, I didn’t use “mendicant” because the alliteration would have been too cute by half, and a tongue twister, though mendiant is more archaic and–all told–quite pretentious. Incidentally, when I was growing up with French as my mother tongue, mendiant had only one meaning (beggar, as in Hugo’s line, “Un mendiant déguenillé, qui ne pouvait faire recette, perdu qu’il était au milieu de la foule, … sollicitant l’attention et la pitié de la multitude avec ses haillons…” “A tattered mendiant, who could not collect any coins, lost as he was in the midst of the crowd, … soliciting the attention and the pity of the multitude…”). I had no idea, until you brought it up, where the English got their mendiant from for French confections. A quick glance at the OED suggests that it’s an extremely recent vintage, at least in our current language: the OED doesn’t recognize it even as a word for French confections, though the Petit Robert (Webster’s French brother) does note that the word applies to a dessert made of four specific dry fruit: figs, raisins, almonds and hazelnut.
Mischa Gee says
My goodness Pierre, you really are too, too much.
Mary Fusco says
I am a Medicare recipient. However, I have never been greedy or have benefited from the government. Between my husband and I, we worked a total of 100 years. We had 4 children without government assistance. Schools did not feed our children or provide cheese blocks or formula or anything else. We had health insurance, not medicaid. We did not take, take take anything. Yes, I do have medicare. However, I also have supplemental insurance which I pay for each month, in addition to the amount taken out of my social security, which I worked 50 years for. With due respect, I think you are addressing the wrong age group here.
Scott Massey says
Bravo! Well said.
Dismayed says
Well, it’s not surprising, just disheartening. This lack of foresight is why people call it FloriDUH.
Jan says
Have been in many countries where EV’s are everywhere as well as charging stations. Even the CEO of Ford Motor company said the US is far behind the rest of the world on technology. Get your head out of the horse and buggy world.
Deborah Coffey says
The virus today’s Republicans have is worse than AIDS or Covid. Theirs is a spiritual disease…one of hate, fear, mistrust, stupidity, White supremacy and self-hate. They won’t survive it; I just hope the end of it comes sooner rather than later.
PeachesMcGee says
These idiots don’t like cell towers either.
We’re headed back to the stone-age citizens.
Celia Pugliese says
Please get a cell tower in your front lawn if you want it so bad.
I am not for us forced funding what is not necessary when can be done and better by the big boys, Tesla, GM, Ford Wawa, Shell and the like. I am not either for donating our scarce public parking spots or paying for free EV owners charge like currently was or still is in City Hall parking at the two EV charging stations that probably cost us the taxpayers $350 or more each in consumed energy a month. Good and congratulations to all EV owners…but please pay your own way like we have to with our gasoline fuel vehicles until we can afford an EV. We elderly Medicare recipients have not been handed anything that we do not deserve…we earned it.
I own an electric car too...... says
Both the City of Palm Coast and Flagler County would have been fine if at the end of the grant they just put the EV charging stations out to bid by the private sector.
The grant writers don’t do their homework on the liability at the end of the grant.
Also these EV stations may lose money until they are found by the EV car owners. If they lose money us the taxpayers would be holding the liability.
Could have been a good project………….
oldstone17 says
“Also these EV stations may lose money until they are found by the EV car owners. If they lose money us the taxpayers would be holding the liability.
Could have been a good project………….”
Those two statements seem contradictory?
Taxpayers shouldn’t lose money for any political party or governmental agency beliefs. Leave progress to the people.
The Sour Kraut says
https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/
https://li-cycle.com/
https://recellcenter.org/
https://www.aceleronenergy.com/
Yep. I guess the EV battery problem is not solvable.. oh, wait.
oldstone17 says
“Also these EV stations may lose money until they are found by the EV car owners. If they lose money us the taxpayers would be holding the liability.
Could have been a good project………….”
Those two statements seem contradictory?
Taxpayers shouldn’t lose money for any political party or governmental agency beliefs. Leave progress to the people.
DaleL says
FPL does NOT generate significant amounts of electricity from coal. 2.8% does come from coal plants outside of Florida. Most of FPL electricity is from natural gas (68.2%), nuclear (19.5%), solar (3.7%), and the rest purchased. So it is a lie that most electricity comes from coal. Even outside of Florida, coal makes up less than 20% of electricity generation. https://www.fpl.com/content/dam/fplgp/us/en/news/2022/energy-news-q1-2022.pdf
Electric vehicles are by far the least likely to catch fire. (25 per 100,000) Hybrids are the worst. (3,475 per 100,000) Non-hybrid gasoline vehicles have a rate of 1,530 per 100,000. https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicles-involved-in-fewest-car-fires/
Commercial electric DC fast chargers are profit makers. They typically charge 2.5 to 3 times the rate per kW as residential electricity rates. The major North American EV makers (Tesla, Ford, GM & Rivan) have all settled on the NACS plug, aka Tesla plug.
The drive batterys on all new EVs sold in the USA are warranted for at least 8 years or 100,000 miles (Tesla batteries 120,000 miles). The actual design life, if not abused, is the life of the vehicle.
Those who claim they will never own an EV should drive one sometime. I love mine.
Mischa Gee says
I plan on owning my vehicles for long periods of time. 10 years on a conservative $60,000 is $6,000/yr plus interest, insurance, the cost to run the vehicle and maintainable.
If you’re retired, that is a big chunk of change. I don’t want to have to buy a new vehicle every 10 years or lease it, constantly making payments. Plus where do all the cars that are no longer on the road go.
The other processes involved in extracting lithium to make batteries and the recycle them in s costly and heavy on the pollution side
Just like plastic, where almost none of it actually gets recycled, because there is only one plant that does and it’s expensive and has its own pollution problems, lithium is a boondoggle.
We don’t know what health risks are involved in mining lithium, and manufacturing and recycling batteries on such a high level to those who are involved in it. Like PVC by-products, before you jump in touting the benefits of electric cars, you need to carefully consider ALL the costs.
DaleL says
A Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD costs $50,490 plus $250 order fee and $1,390 delivery fee. That is just over $52,000, not $60,000. But wait, if your income is not over $150,000 single or $300,000 married, you can claim a $7,500 tax credit. The effective cost to such a buyer is then about $45,000. That is still a chunk of change, but think about it. No oil changes. No engine maintenance. Zero to 60 in less than 5 seconds.
The actual design life is much greater than the warranty. No manufacturer wants to get stuck replacing a bunch of EV batteries under warranty. “The U.S. Department of Energy, meanwhile, predicts today’s EV batteries ought to last a good deal past their warranty period,…” https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31875141/electric-car-battery-life/ Basically, an EV battery has the same life expectancy as a modern gasoline engine and transmission.
Mischa Gee says
If your income is over $150,000 and you’re single, why would you live in Flagler County, if it’s so backward? I currently own a 2001 Hyundai Sonata and a 2016 Santa Fe. As a person who came to FL because it was a place I could afford to live, I find the arrogance of people who think we should want to give up $45,000 to buy an electric vehicle, when environmentally we are no where near being as “Green” as they would like to believe, just plain funny.
Mining lithium is costly, and a very damaging act to the environment. Making lithium batteries is also not green. Even recycling them, comes with environmental risks.
Nevermind the fact that nuclear power plants are very dangerous and getting rid of nuclear waste is still a big problem. Why mention nuclear power plants – because they have been touted as safe, too. Just ask about Chernobyl or Fukushima if you don’t know or remember, how safe they are.
Then we have the fact that fossil fuel burning power plants are often the other source of energy being used to charge the EV in the first place. If you are unlucky enough to be part of the working poor in America you may be living under the cloud of air pollution coming from these plants. The damage that you or your children might sustain to just your lungs is untold for a reason. Afterall, those haughty Americans, who blame poor people for their position in life, think they’re expendable anyway. And, I haven’t even touched on the “junk” yards, of no longer viable vehicles, that still riddle the country.
I have been environmentally aware since I was a little girl who would pick up garbage in the gutter and carry it to a garbage can, and the first present I made for my kindergarten teacher was a personalized litter bag for her car! I care about the environment.
The truth of the matter is we are fooling ourselves if we ignore the Real Environmental Impact that EV’s are having, while forcing people to buy them, regardless of affordability and the true cost to the environment.
If we were to focus more fully on improving solar energy buy making it available in a building to building basis, while making the panels , etc. Environmentally sound, then we might actually reduce our carbon footprint and improve our world. Until then, I will consider a hybrid vehicle as close as we have technically gotten to reducing our carbon footprint for the time being. And hope that our engineers come up with a battery that charges itself while it’s running.
Denali says
Interesting. Six charging stations in a county with over 100K residents. Our backwoods, ‘rural farming community’ county 1100 miles up I-75 with 35K residents has sixteen charging stations. And one of the major crops grown there is corn for the ethanol industry.
My nephew ponied up for a Tesla a few years ago and quite honestly I have not had so many ‘smiles per mile’ for speed since my ’65 Dodge with the 426 wedge. (Of course that was when I smoked cigarettes and sniffed leaded gasoline all day long.) Ran like a scalded cat and handled better than any ‘sports’ car I have driven and there have been many.
Now, come with me on an imaginary drive from this EV hell-hole called Palm Coast to our farm up north. I will be driving my Chevy Colorado which gets 25 mpg (525 EPA mile range) on the highway and my nephew will drive his Tesla with a range of 420 EPA miles. First stop Forsyth, GA, 345 miles. Takes us about five hours to get there and my old rump needs to get out and move a bit. I fuel up the truck, park and go inside the station for a pit stop and a plate of good old gas station sushi. The nephew plugs in his Tesla, hits the can and joins me with his culinary selection of an egg salad sandwich and a bag of Doritos. He gets to multi-task with fueling, peeing and eating. I have to take it one step at a time. Total time when we get back to the cars is about 30 minutes. His battery is now at 80% and good for 336 miles. We plan our next stop around Nashville, TN – about 300 miles up the road. My butt and bladder need to stop every 4 1/2 hours so it just does not matter that my range is almost 200 miles more than his, I cannot do the seat time. We stop in west Knoxville for a repeat of the last stop sans the sushi, my gut has been talking to me for a couple of hours. I settle for a large order of fries from a fast food place. Never said this trip was to be an epicurean delight. It is basically wash, rinse and repeat here and two more times before reaching the lovely rural smells of manure and confined feeding farms. In a nutshell, we have paced each other over 1100 miles, stopped at the same times and left at the same times. I could have left him at the charger for maybe a 30 minute total advantage but in essence over 18 hours it was a dead heat. Fact is that I make this exact trip at least once a month and see dozens of Tesla’s with plates from all over the country. These ain’t your grandpas EV’s.
Say what you will and think whatever mindless political tripe the party of orange has fed you but EV’s are here to stay. Just like wind generators and solar panels. Unfortunately there way too many ignorant souls out there touting their antiquated tales of unpaid gas taxes, road damage, they are too expensive and being limited to short trips. If the EV’s are not paying road taxes it is because the politicians have failed us. If they are causing added road damage, it is up to the politicians to repair those roads with the funds received through road taxes, and again, the politicians have failed us. Expensive? Maybe – but so is any other new vehicle in the same class on the market. If you still believe that long road trips are not possible, just open your eyes to the facts.
Now the $64,000 question (you had to smoke cigarettes and drink leaded gas to know what that means), would I buy one? No. I need and drive pickup trucks and while I hate what society has done to them with 4 doors and no bed space, I need a pickup. Right now, nothing fits my needs. Even the new Silverado will only have a six foot bed but it will have all the needs of the urban cowboy; leather seats, wifi, more whistles and bells than a steam calliope and those lovely 4 doors with a full size back seat. No bed capacity but it does have that back seat. When they make a real truck, I will buy one.
Pogo says
@Denali
MOPAR baby! (with torsion bar front suspension)
Right On says
Loved This review
Bill C says
Perhaps consider the Ford F-150 Raptor. It gets 12 MPG. That’s right 12. Why no discussion about conservation? It’s not just about EV’s vs gasoline.
Jane says
Backward thinking? Yes that’s you Flagler County!!!
Jason says
Is it really backwards thinking though? I drive a Tesla and the only fast charger in town is the Supercharger at Wawa off 100. There is another at the Bucees in St. Augustine and at the Bucees in Daytona. There are 8 total chargers at the Wawa that can do 250KW. There are also Charge Point chargers at the city building and at the hospital off 100.
A quick search of google maps shows there are 16 gas stations in Palm Coast. Now here is where this article really shows its just being sensational instead of a true analysis of this issue. Why didn’t the author of this article take the time to gather the info on how many pumps there are in Palm Coast for Gas, Diesel, Ethanol, and chargers for EV’s then show you the ratio of pumps to registered vehicles in Flagler County that use that fuel type–because then you’d see that Flagler County doesn’t actually have a need for EV chargers on every corner of the city. This article also doesn’t cover the infrastructure requirements to support a massive number of chargers and if FPL could even support it for one of the smaller counties in FL.
I’m honestly disappointment in this article because it is just a smear against the elected leaders and offers no true analysis of whether the need really exists and what the economic benefits would be from it and what the maintenance costs would be long term. You can dislike the elected leadership because you choose to be affiliated with a different party but your arguments go a lot further when they have something other than emotion in them.
oldstone17 says
AMEN! Need vs Speed is not the solution. Leave the county the way the residents want it not as the Federal Government thinks it should be. If there is a need or demand for charging stations it will be filled by the private sector for profit just like gas stations. Anything short of that is a fail. Big brother and personal ideologies is not the answer.
dave says
I own a Tesla Model S, have since 2021. But it’s not my only car or truck. We have a Lexus or our SUV for long trips, why, lack of charging stations and the long delay in charging. Fun car yes, is there any quality in it, kinda. Would I take off and drive on a long trip in it, NO. When I travel I want to get there, not set at level 2 charging stations for 8 hours or if I can find a Supercharger and get that 200 miles in 22 mins.. Will EV’s take off, one day but the power infrastructure, and charging stations have got to be pretty much like “Gas stations” today and the range needs to improve. For around town, or short trips, its a blast if you have a full charge. Oh and charging your car in a Fla downpour ain’t fun either and few of these charging stations have covers like gas (convenience stores) stations. A lot more thought has got to be put into it and not just push for EV sales, ensure the infrastructure will support the growth along with safety and the necessary tools for firefighters and tow companies .
Jason says
Tesla’s goal is to have chargers every 50 miles. That density isn’t everywhere but I own a Model 3 and I can drive the entire state and use Superchargers and not have to use the Chargepoints or other slow chargers. Never been in a Model S but when I set my destination in my Model 3 it plans out my charging stops for me and all you have to do is follow what it says! I have to laugh because about a month ago I saw a Model S getting put onto a flatbed on the exit for the Bucees in Daytona. They then drove to the Supercharger at Bucees and dropped the car then plugged it in. Somebody needs to learn how to follow the maps instructions lol.
oldstone17 says
nothing like having to plan your trip around fueling your car? or you could just drive like a normal person and not have to plan out your charging points and just fuel up at your local gas station. but you my not like my choices either so to each their own. lets level the playing field, no subsides for either industry and lets see who wins out? Innovation always changes the day not government!
Jan Manilla says
Dear Mr. Tristam,
I agree with your assessment of EV charging stations and Flagler County not embracing the federal grant.
However, I would like to say that your arrogant comment on Medicare recipients was completely uncalled for and untrue. I am neither mediant (beggar and/or indigent) nor have I ever used leaded gas nor owned or even ridden in an Eldorado with a fin. And bonus, I have owned a hybrid since 2020. So the next time you want to make a point, do a little homework before you insult an entire segment of the population who still pays taxes and even own hybrids or EVs!
Thank you.
Denali says
Not to pick nits, but something just does not add up here. Even if 2023 were the first year of your medicare enrollment, you would have been born in 1958. That would have made you 16 – the age most of us started driving – in 1974. Unleaded gasoline did not hit the pumps until 1975 when auto manufacturer’s started installing catalytic converters in many but not all models. Leaded gasoline was available most everywhere until 1996 when it was finally banned for road vehicles. (It is still available but hard to find.) So unless the first car you drove was a ’75 or later with a catalytic converter I would be willing to suggest that you did use leaded gasoline.
As for never experiencing a tail-finned Eldorado – all I will say is that it was your loss . . .
Jan says
You are fortunate that you were permitted to drive when you were 16. Some of us were not that fortunate. We rode bicycles to get where we needed to go. Not to pick nits, but don’t assume.
Realist says
Nothing to see here, Just Tree hugging snowflakes EV car fuel heading to the electric plant.
jeffery seib says
It’s a good thing that we have so many Palm Coasters weighing in on this issue. The more we communicate, the more we express ourselves, right or wrong, helps us to establish a threshold where we can move the city forward. The Palm Coast city council had expressed the desire to tax or fee the EV charging stations now around the city. Perhaps FPL could supply the power, charge the customer, and deliver a tax or fee to the city, a win-win for everybody. But, Pierre, your wrong to make that blanket statement about the ‘Medicare generation’. Yes, most, but not all, are only interested in the next thrill, the next dinner out, fancy car, or vacation to some exotic location. But there are those, albeit few, that heard the civil rights, heard the peace, heard the Earth Day, as a movement to better us all. They believe that selfish and self-centered are not the way to live a life and followed that calling. There are those…
Nephew Of Uncle Sam says
“In March Palm Coast hired Maeven Rogers as its first chief sustainability and resiliency officer.” I do not know Maeven yet she might want to find a new employer, this Council will just make her job harder to do and be stuck in their ways. Why did they even come up with that department other than to lie to the populace that they care about the environment, a Tree City USA, HA!
As for those naysayers about electric vehicles the first one was developed way back in the 1830’s and became popular in the 1890’s well into the 1920’s when oil companies started to push harder for gas automobiles. Sort of like what they did for trolleys and interurbans. Electric vehicles have been around now in one form or another for almost 200 years so their not going away. You know what went away during that time…the whale oil salesman who people thought would always be around, replaced by new technologies.
oldstone17 says
200 years in development? something must not be right?
Celia Pugliese says
This time I kindly have to disagree with Pierre. My reasons are that we have to let the big boys do what they do best… Tesla, GM Ford, Wawa and all the other gas stations or car manufacturers that can get our government support to build the EV charging stations. We financially are in NO condition to receive a 15 millions grant with a matching local fund of 3 millions…we need those funds for our traffic and services priorities now. Also we can’t afford to loose our very scarce public parking spaces to these EV stations. Let the big boys buy land or install them in their already built gas stations and profit from them. The government aka us never ends up really benefitting from getting into private business. The two EV charging stations in City Hall are probably always busy/used as I believe there is free charge there and then why to charge at home? Unless they decided to meter them for a fee. If still free means that all these years we the city taxpayers been forced to subsidize these EV owners, one a councilman, at a rate of $350 cost at least per month each. The serious side of it is “when did the city residents were asked /voted to pay for this subsidy?” Instead those funds how many Cimmaron life safety sidewalks could have been built with, or the two speed calming islands in Florida Park Drive or secure funds to save our Fire Station 22 from maybe become dust? Hope not.
I am all for EV vehicles and support and admire all those pioneers buying them but not when we are forced to pay our millions in matching the grants, loose our scarce public parking spaces or like in city hall pay for their free charging…we all sure have to pay for our gas fill ups! We have big priorities to fund, other than the EV stations. I stress that I have no political reasons for my view as I admire Bidens good intentions that overtime will benefit us all…but locally we can’t afford now the reported matching items.
Celia Pugliese says
Furthermore maybe is not entirely Ms. Maven’s fault this search for the wrong grant as happens in the city administration. I would say her bosses in Community Development and or Engineering Dept…suggestions to research. But maybe I am wrong.
Pierre Tristam says
“… not entirely Ms. Maven’s fault”? In what regard is it in the slightest degree Maven’s or the administration’s fault? The city’s strategic plan is as explicit as it gets. She and the rest of the administration followed it. The council decided against it, undermining the credibility of its own document.
Celia Pugliese says
Hi Pierre in my kind disagreement with you I believe that the city strategic plan is far from perfect and I do feel that partially is not agreed by the majority of the Palm Coast residents taxpayers, being myself one of them. I explained in detail my reasons above. The council and mayor surprisingly voted with common sense this time and not as usual and mostly agreeing, furthermore appreciating the controversial and unsupported work by us affected residents “of all ages”, in some cases, of our city administrators. This EV charge stations proposals is another case that can turn out like the Hollands splash pad so much opposed by councilman then Jack Howell and many residents like myself, also the expense incurred on the city own Fiber Optic that never brought in the sold out “revenue” now outshined by big boy Metronet. Don’t even let me start with Jon Netts studies cost of his mirage ocean water desalinization at least $750 billions plant in our shore. Those funds could have been used instead in real priorities needed by the residents. This is one could be also a case of biting too big and chocking. Why the government decides to buy a Cadillac when yet have not paid off the old Pinto? Anyone in office voting no to this has my applause! By the way Palmcoasters have a pretty good idea who runs the show in this city by now and is not Ms. Maven. Hope your question answered.
Ray Klimasewski says
I am not much of a fan of elec. cars. Just bought a ’23 gasoline fueled car. However, people do have them so we should take the money and build the charging stations to attract more people to visit the area too. I didn’t want to even touch on political agenda with my statement. Thank-you…
oldstone17 says
How does an EV station attract more people to the area when such a small percentage of people have EV vehicles? If there is a need, it will be filled by capitalism and does not need to be done by government. Ideologies do not need to be pushed, demand will fuel the need when and if there is one. But right now I see a lot more pick up trucks in town then Tesla’s. :-)
Jason says
I have a Tesla and there is a Supercharger at Wawa off of 100. I don’t use the Supercharger in town at all because unlike all other vehicles, I can re-fuel my EV at my house each night by plugging it in. So the chargers are mostly there for trips where going there and back would require me to “re-fuel/re-charge”. The cost per KWh is also cheaper at home than using the Tesla Supercharger–but the Supercharger can take me from ~10% to 90% in about 20 minutes and that amount of charge is good for roughly 200 miles. The Chargepoint chargers that are around Palm Coast are very slow comparatively and I would only use them if I could leave me car there all day. The Orlando Airport has them and they work great to leave your car plugged in while your gone for a short trip.
I mentioned it before, but the author of this article really failed to do and/or provide any actual analysis of this issue. There are 16 gas stations in Palm Coast, how many of those pumps are Gas, Diesel, Ethanol? How many vehicles are registered in Flagler County that use each of those fuel types? What is the ratio of pump type to ratio of registered vehicles? Does the city, county, state provide any incentives to those gas stations now or in the past to provide more capacity? What is the ratio of EV chargers to EV’s registered in the county and how do we adjust that for being able to charge at home? What was the ratio of fuel pumps to vehicles in Flagler County/Palm Coast at the same adoption rate as the number of EV’s that are in the county today in the 1900’s? What is the impact to the power grid to add millions worth of chargers where the demand doesn’t exist? How does that infrastructure maintenance get done? Does FPL have the capacity to deliver it without their own upgrades?
These are all relevant questions to have answers for but instead we have people just wishing we’d spend millions of “IRA” money because “its already allocated”.
Sherry says
@oldstone17. . . you do realize that there is life beyond Florida, right? Flagler county, in particular, is stuck in the last century. Why not try to think beyond what you watch on FOX and towards the future. This planet simply cannot sustain itself with what “we” are pouring into the atmosphere. Please “try” to pry open your mind to accept new technologies and new ways of living to preserve earth for future generations.
Pierre Tristam says
As a postscript on this curiously revealing discussion on the Medicare generation—divorced as Medicarocrats are from the extent to which their generation is thriving at the expense of their own children and grandchildren—John Updike wrote this in 1992 (in Forbes, in a piece called “State of the Union”), just before the internet. I think it’s even more apt today, since the wealth and benefits shift favoring the old has only accelerated: “ In the middle class, the young, reared on seven daily hours of television-watching, are simply less educable, as slumping SAT scores show. Their high schools no longer look like castles but like second-rate airports, low-slung and cut-rate, while the society’s riches are reserved, in a curious gerontocratic shift, to the old, with their Social Security, their pensions, their Medicare, and the government entitlements that account for a third of the national budget. A nation where the old are coddled and the young are deprived of both purpose and means is surely one where people are entitled to feel bad.”
Cars Cache says
To extend the life of an EV battery, there are several effective strategies to follow. Firstly, avoid frequent full charges and deep discharges, as this can stress the battery cells. Instead, aim to keep the battery within the recommended state of charge range. Secondly, minimize exposure to extreme temperatures, as high heat or cold can accelerate battery degradation. Additionally, utilize smart charging practices, such as avoiding fast charging unless necessary and using a slow or level 2 charger whenever possible. Lastly, regular software updates and adhering to the manufacturer’s recommended maintenance guidelines, including cooling system checks and periodic inspections, can contribute to prolonging the battery’s lifespan.
Cars Cache says
To keep your EV battery maintenance at its best, regular maintenance is key. Follow manufacturer guidelines, maintain proper charging habits, and schedule professional inspections. Prioritize battery health to extend its lifespan and enjoy worry-free electric driving. Take action today for a smoother and more sustainable ride.
Ray Klimasewski says
Even my tiny town back home in Connecticut of less than 30,000 are putting in 2 charging stations. Ohhh, I realize Connecticut is blue…..