For at least the last four or five decades meetings of the Flagler County Commission began either with the pledge to the flag or with the pledge and a moment of silence. The days of sectarian piety had given way to more respectful deference to our rich diversity of beliefs, doubts and disbeliefs, and to the law: if the First Amendment is to mean anything, Government doesn’t get to choose one over the other.
A year ago Dave Sullivan, newly named chairman, broke that precedent by invoking “God” in the faintest way, to “bless all the citizens,” as he put it. He’d carefully checked his wording with the county attorney beforehand. His few words were in fact quite neutral and especially inclusive. But he’d breached the wall (and drawn the threat of a lawsuit).
Last Monday, that wall came crashing down as his replacement in the chairman’s seat, Donald O’Brien, passed a very lengthy, unquestionably Christian and sharply exclusive prayer to Commissioner Greg Hansen, who read it. “Dear God,” Hansen started, the Calvinism in his voice as if warming to the indictments, “not everything that happens in our world reflects your goodness and grace. You’ve given us freedom to choose and with that freedom sometimes we choose to do evil.” The clunky, weirdly craven sermon went on from there.
The county attorney knew nothing about it. Commissioners hadn’t discussed doing this ahead of time. It certainly wasn’t on the agenda. Even O’Brien says he didn’t know about it until moments before the meeting started, when he found it on his stack of things to read out or pass to other commissioners–a stack Cameron controls, as he does the agenda–like announcements and proclamations. A prayer at a public meeting is neither. In some circumstances, like Monday’s, it’s illegal.
It was the sly handiwork of County Administrator Jerry Cameron, who fancies the demeanor of a patrician prelate whatever the subject, though it wasn’t his place to change commission policy, nor was it one or two commissioners’ place to impose it by fiat, however noble the impulse: the “prayer” was intended to commemorate the 79th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Prayers at government meetings have often exploited the grays of legal penumbras. The First Amendment seems clear enough, as it was to Justice Hugo Black when he wrote the 6-1 decision in 1962 that ended the widespread practice of starting school days with non-denominational prayers: “It is neither sacrilegious nor anti-religious to say that each separate government in this country should stay out of the business of writing or sanctioning official prayers and leave that purely religious function to the people themselves and to those the people choose to look to for religious guidance.” But we’ve never been much as a nation for abiding by Matthew’s admonition against show-off piety. Courts’ more thocratic misreading of the Bill of Rights in recent years has amplified the muezzins.
Seven years ago the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the Lakeland City Commission’s habit of opening its meetings with a prayer, but by relying on the city’s willingness to invite any and all denominations to do so if they choose, and abide by a rigorously formal process. Of course, the Flagler County Commission has no such invitation, let alone a process. The U.S. Supreme Court in 2014, in a more divided opinion that’s now controlling law, also approved of opening invocations at meetings, “so long as the town maintains a policy of nondiscrimination” and “any member of the public is welcome in turn to offer an invocation reflecting his or her own convictions.” We don’t know what the Flagler commission would do if a member of the public asked to offer, say, a Muslim or pagan or atheistic invocation. But we do know that it’s never extended the invitation, except to itself. That’s what makes its prayer discriminatory and illegal. After-the-fact correctives don’t cure the presumption of intoning a denominational prayer as an elected official, under the supposed banner of a government for all–not just for Christians who “keep on babbling like pagans” (to quote Matthew again.)
The most objectionable part of the prayer was the wording, which imperiously refers to the concept of “grace” three time, culminating in those final words about the men and women of Pearl Harbor and World War II: “May we never forget them, and may you honor them according to the grace you gave in those days and according to their response to that grace, then and now, in your holy name, we pray, amen.” (I shudder to think what grace Cameron is imagining in firebombings, massacres and holocausts.)
The words resemble those spoken at the school board a little over a year ago when that panel’s chairman ambushed everyone by inviting a pastor who also broke precedent there and delivered a Christian invocation, though a much tamer one than what Hansen read. She claimed it was non-sectarian. But as Palm Coast’s Rabbi Merrill Shapiro, a member of the national board of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State wrote a school board member at the time, “The inclusion of the words ‘May the educators be filled with your grace’ raises a concept that lets each and every non-Christian connected with Flagler County Schools know that they are out of the mainstream, second class citizens. The concept of ‘Grace’ is complex and even some Protestant denominations have different understandings of the nature of Grace.” Cameron wasn’t going to let complexity or respect get in the way of a good snub of people like Shapiro (who, as a matter of disclosure, also chairs the FlaglerLive board of directors).
At least when the school board chairman attempted her little revival her fellow board members, especially Andy Dance, spoke up, and soon rallied against going back to those Christianized openings of meetings, in the name of diversity and inclusion. Dance is now on the county commission. He didn’t say a word this time. He, too, knew nothing of it ahead of time. “From time time even during school board meetings,” he told me, “instances of prayers in memory of lives lost have occurred.” Yes, but in the briefest, most generic, most non-denominational way possible (“we pray for so and so’s family,” etc.). Never in any way that would be mistaken for a specifically Christian prayer, as was the case Monday.
One other disconnect with Cameron’s text stood out, this one not just uncomfortable but rankly crude, considering the proximity of the carnage not invoked: 2,400 American servicemen and civilians were killed at Pearl Harbor in 1941. But on Dec. 1, anno domini 2020, more than 2,600 Americans died of Covid. On Dec. 2, nearly 2,900 died. On Dec. 3, another 2,800 died. On Dec. 4, 2,600 died. Two days after the remembrance of Pearl Harbor, more people died of Covid than on 9/11. Yet to this day the county commission has not once had a word of remembrance for the victims of Covid, and the Cameron encyclical on Monday certainly didn’t.
By all means, remember Pearl Harbor (as it hasn’t been for years, not just on this commission). But it’s not as if there’s a dearth of grief and memory to go around these days, down to our own neighbors, parents, grandparents, spouses, friends, colleagues. Or do they count less–do they garner fewer brownie points to the pious babblers–because they weren’t soldiers? Because some of our own county officials buy into the conspiracy devaluation of Covid? Because it’s easier to mouth medievally-worded commemorations to settled events as distant and placid as the oil supposedly still seeping up from the USS Arizona than it is to reckon with the casualties of a plague here and now that before next year’s 9/11 anniversary will have claimed many more lives than all those lost in World War II?
The school board learned its lesson quickly after that clumsy end-run around pluralism. It self-corrected and resumed its business for the good of all. The way this commission is going, Monday’s born-again guile forebodes a lot of dismantling ahead. And that’s under the chairmanship of Donald O’Brien, the seemingly reasoned moderate, though he assured me that he would “not support it being a regular thing.” That also doesn’t explain how a county administrator is allowed to play fast and loose with county procedures. And Cameron or not (he’ll be gone before long) imagine what it’ll be like next year when Mullah Mullins takes over, or the imam they’ll hire to replace this one.
But that’s what we get when we have militant sanctimony and a jihadist administrator presuming to define our beliefs, our evils, our griefs and our graces. All of which could be avoided by respecting the original moment of silence for what it is intended to be: a meditative moment that leaves us all free with our own thoughts and, if we wish, our prayers. It’s as American, as respectful as it gets. Instead, we get chest-thumping arrogance to the bi-weekly rhythms of Onward Christian Soldiers.
Dear god.
Pierre Tristam is FlaglerLive’s editor. Reach him by email here. A version of this piece aired on WNZF.
Richard says
Pierre, prayers do work! Try it sometime, you just may be surprised.
Pat says
Because he can.
And with no objections.
Except for you Pierre.
Sorry.
It must have been a slow news day if you have to depend on God for an article…
Pat says
Hey Folks!
Please stop shooting the messenger! (Although what he says is also blasphemy.)
Remember, it’s our “pal” Jerry Cameron who authored the missive presented at the meeting. He is to whom our anger and frustration should be directed. A young whipper-snapper who could benefit from from serious reprimanding!
Cindy says
Why does that hurt you so much Pierre? Did you die? Did you blow up in flames?
Krissi says
Agreed. Who hurt you, Pierre? Seriously, an article this long over what YOU deem was a “clunky, craven sermon?” I’m disgusted that America has come to this. This nation was built on GOD! Like it or hate it – THATS your choice and that’s YOUR ass that will burn in flames.. Dear God.
Anonymous says
I am a Christian who is tired of other “Christians” believing they have the right to force their beliefs on others. The USA does not have an official religion, and for a good reason: So everyone that comes here has freedom of religion, not just you. Keep it out of politics.
Mike Cocchiola says
This country was decidedly not built on “god”, We are a secular nation built on religious freedom. Freedom to practice religion if we please… or not!
The first clause in the Bill of Rights states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” Subsequent SCOTUS decisions have upheld the concept of “separation of church and state”. Government officials should not be forcing citizens to endure specific religious proselyting while attending government meetings.
John says
Ostentatious praying in public is not Christian behavior. At least not according to Jesus.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Matthew 6:5-6
Bill C says
George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and many of the founding fathers were Freemasons and didn’t believe in the concept of salvation by works, by secret knowledge, or by any other means. This nation was built on the Constitution, not Christianity.
Denali says
Please support your claim that this nation was built on god. And even if you can perform that task, which god, yours, mine, the Muslim’s down the street or the Buddhist’s across town?
Looking forward to your reply.
The pure simple fact is that the Flagler BOCC did not comply with the law when they offered up a christian prayer.
James M. Mejuto says
I think any move to support the separation of church and state is vital to our ‘democracy.’
What kind of nutcase would allow the continuation of a prayer in local government meetings?
The question should be: Why does the separation of church and state ” hurt you so much,” Cindy?
Ben Hogarth says
Cindy, are you sure your name isn’t Karen?
Inferred ad hominem and satire aside, diminishing legitimate concerns with the pretext of prayer in a public meeting as a “didn’t kill you” defense don’t hold water (whether holy or not) in a debate about protecting secular integrity of free government in a liberal democracy. It’s more than disingenuous – it’s an argument lacking moral integrity and merit.
In other words, why does this article hurt you so much Cindy? Did you die? Did you blow up in flames?
Get it?
John says
Your Jesus had something to say about praying in public. You should listen to him and follow him:
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Matthew 6:5-6
James M. Mejuto says
re: Prayer . . . Great article, Pierre on the principle enumerated in the 1st Amendment of the Constitution regarding
the separation of church and state, regardless of the Court’s 2004 decision but yet, a different one in 1962.
There is no one to oppose these political hacks simply because we have no democrat party with a spine.
This leaves it up to citizens to interrupt these guys and protest for fair government.
This is exactly what happens when one political party controls the government.
Now what? says
This is so wrong. You want to pray? Fine, do it at home or at church or any other religious gathering, but there’s no place for it at a public meeting.
C’mon man! says
Who cares if they say a quick prayer. Weren’t yours answered when Trump lost?
Jp says
If a Muslim had a prayer before the meeting would you feel the same?
Mike Cocchiola says
This is outrageous. It seems I’ll have to start attending meetings and using my three minutes to refute the objectionable exclusion of other faiths or the nonfaithful in Flagler County.
Linzey Chaffin says
It would help this world if we had more Christians praying for the people.
Try getting your heart right with the Lord and you may have something to be thankful for
Ask God to forgive you of your sins ,John 3:16
We might have less murders and crooks if we had more born again Christians.
Heaven is real and hell is hot forever
L.Chaffin
me too says
It’s about time we start to bring God back into our lives. They should do it at all the meetings. Without God in our lives we’re just nothing.
Jp says
Whose god?
Wow says
What many if you are missing isnthat it was a Christian prayer. It’s not that aindon’t want to pray, I don’t want my joining in prayer to finish up “In Jesus name WE pray”. Don’t include please and thanks. It has nothing to donwith whether or not I “like” God. It has to do with I would like officials to acknowledge (or maybe realize for the first time) that not all residents are Christians. It’s about respect and honoring the American value of religious pluralism.
Pierre Tristam says
I’m officially Wowed.
Dennis C Rathsam says
Only fools dont belive in god,,,after most of your bias comments in the past on Flagler live, we all can see what an athiest u are. Here in the south Pierre,we are big on religion…in god we trust, it is even on our money…God bless u ….what ever country u come from!
Jo says
Which god?
Concerned Citizen says
As an adult regardless of religious or political affiliation I’m ashamed of some of these comments on here.
This is another example of the division that is rampant in our country. Anytime political or religious issues are brought up you folks turn the topic into a 5th grade sand box pissing contest. And get completley disrespectful with one another.
The 1st Amendment and the Constitution seems to only fit when someone agrees with your views.
People are still dying of Covid19. And we have homeless with no place to go during the holiday’s. But hey let’s spend all of our energy hating on each other over a person that has zero influence in our lives.
Kindness and respect are free. What a different place it would be if we utilized it more.
Trailer Bob says
Thank you Concerned Citizen. It is sad what people are saying, writing, doing lately. Life is precious, but we don’t realize it many times until we are on our deathbed. Social media and fake newspapers and “leaders” have done much destruction to our society in the recent past, and only getting worse.
Hate is a disease and it is getting worse. Shut off the news and do something nice for someone today…SMH
ASF says
Maybe the ghosts of our constitutional fathers should rise up from their graves and explain to the good people of Flagler County what the concept of “Separation of Church and State” entails…Followed up by a few history lessons as to why this concept is crucial to the proper workings of a true Democracy. I don’t think the actual Jesus would have too much of a problem with that.
Rick G says
You want to worship and enshrine your own god… fine you are free to do it at your local church, synagogue or mosque. Government meetings should not be subjected to anyone’s belief in a cloud being. This is not disrespect to those religions. I just don’t want those who believe in those religions to shove it down our collective throats.
Steve says
IMO Cameron’s just trying to stay outfront be significant in the game disruptive because he can get away with it. He doesn’t care one iota about bettering peoples lives here in FPC it’s about him always has been.
Pat says
I agree.
I wrote him asking for assistance on removing the parking lot construction so us old folks could vote more conveniently. His reply was rude, disrespectful towards a woman old enough to be his grandmother, and quite arrogant, especially for a member of community.
Shame on Cameron!
palmcoaster says
Pat he is just another bully in the county government and imposing his religion on these county meetings now.
Flagler Local says
There are more important things happening in this world right now for people to worry about than whether or not a prayer is or isn’t said before a meeting. I’m not Jehovah Witness, Jewish, Catholic, whatever, but if someone said one of their prayers before a meeting I wouldn’t be offended. We are not all the same, we don’t all believe in the same things but there is one thing everyone should believe in and it’s respect. Respect for each others beliefs. It’s just words people, who really cares either way? Not me. Just saying.
Nancy N. says
A whole lot of the Christians commenting on this issue need to reread Matthew 6:5-8. Apparently they missed the part about not praying on street corners and to do it in your room with your door closed.
What Else Is New says
Brilliant as usual Pierre. Yes! Nancy got it right. You prayer people need to understand the Supreme Court ruling. Go look it up. Cameron is a nut, though a nut who clearly understood prayer did not belong at the BOCC meeting. Folks, prayer is fine and wonderful…. Just go get in your closet to accomplish the deed.
Erobot says
Separation of church and state works. Pray all you like even at a government meeting, but do it silently. Why can’t people understand that. Arguing about it when our country is being stolen from under us is too ridiculous for comment. Stop it and start working to restore our constitutional republic before it’s too late.
B&B says
Really all this ?
Try a moment of silence.
Merrill S Shapiro says
The Constitution of the United States has taken a beating lately. But there are still patriots in every corner of our country who will rise to its defense and not rest until the Constitution’s enemies are banished!
The Constitution in its first and fourteenth amendments forbids legislative bodies from establishing religion. Courts have held this principle sacrosanct.
While invocations offered by clergy who are NOT on the government payroll and NOT elected officials may, due to poorly decided court decisions, neutral, non-prosletyzing invocations, members of a county commission may NOT! When a county commissioner offers an invocation it is impermissible “government speech.
There are patriots among us who will rise to the defense of our Constitution.
By the way, this applies to legislative bodies, bodies, like the county commission, make laws. School boards are NOT legislative bodies. Invocations of any kind are constitutional violations.
As a member of the clergy, I wholeheartedly and without reservation support the idea of prayer, the idea of our Flagler County Commissioners praying. I hope they do so regularly. In fact, I urge them to spend the half-hour before each meeting on their knees calling upon their respective deities. But the U.S. Constitution has meaning, significance and importance. Invocations offered by members of the County Commission are simply wrong.
Zachary Scott says
10/1 if it was a muslim prayer you wouldn’t be writing this article.
~ZS
Pierre Tristam says
You’re right. I’d be writing an article about hell freezing over. Then I’d write this same article, though thankfully the concept of grace is not part of the Muslim liturgy.
The White Horse says
Sorry but this country is done. There’s no prayer by any denomination that’s going to bring it back.
The 4 Horsemen ride……….
TIMES UP
Been There says
“not everything that happens in our world reflects your goodness and grace. You’ve given us freedom to choose and with that freedom sometimes we choose to do evil.”
Sounds to me like a confession of all the commissioner’s, administration and counsel’s unethical and illegal misdeeds. There is no Sunshine under the big green dome.
Sheila Zinkerman says
Any flagrant display of religiosity within public spaces by a public official is an offense of our country’s laws and commitment to the separation of church and state. Contrary to some commenters beliefs, liturgical and other official worship in public spaces IS a big deal for some religious skeptics, other religious denominations, atheists, and the like. Public officials who are intent on reciting their adulation of their own divine being in public spaces thumb their noses at “the others.”
Furthermore, the pandemic carnage numbers as reported in the article have been attributed in part to the lack of national leadership and lack of public response to CDC guidelines, including mask wearing. That inaction morphed into a political ideology and science skepticism. Indeed, trust in science “was by far the lowest among the religious” (AEON.Co. Bastiaan T. Rutjens.) 297,501 dead recorded as of 12/12/2020. It is time to believe in science, wear a mask, and to put our public officials on notice: do not invoke the adulation of your divine being in the people’s public spaces!
Jane Gentile-Youd says
And not one word about Chanukah which began 3 days after the religious Christian speech. Ignorant and rude in my opinion
Bluepaws says
Pierre if you knew anything about US history you would understand the divine guidance and protection we have been graced with since the beginning of our country. Our forefathers always thanked God for his blessings and guidance in all matters. ” In God We Trust” sound familiar ! I have no problem with our elected officials saying a prayer or invocation. It should beats the vile language and acts of your leftist anti- social brethren in todays society ! As for you Pierre you should grow a brain and do something with your 8/th grade education ! Go sit with Mike Cocchiola next to his pool and both take your take your blue pills ! Better yet try being a respectful member of society !
Chris E says
” In God We Trust ” had nothing to do with our forefathers , So Blue Paws I suggest you do your homework .
” A law passed in a Joint Resolution by the 84th Congress (P.L 84–140) and approved by President Dwight Eisenhower on July 30, 1956, requires that “In God We Trust” appear on American currency. The following year, the phrase was used on paper money for the first time—on the updated one-dollar silver certificate that entered circulation on October 1, 1957.[5] The 84th Congress later passed legislation (P.L. 84–851), also signed by President Eisenhower on July 30, 1956, declaring the phrase to be the national motto.”
We actually came to America to get away from being told what religion to follow, We also has the freedom to keep religion out of our lives if we choose !
Denali says
Get your historical facts straight. “In God We Trust” was not coined by founders. The original motto of this country was “E pluribus unum” which still resides on the Great Seal of the United States. If you will recall, the Wizard of OZ told Dorothy that he was from Kansas, “the land of E Pluribus Unum” – not the land of ‘in god we trust’. It was not until the mid-50’s when the whack-a-nut McCarthy-ites in Congress decided that they needed to bolster “God” in the face of the Red Scare made it our “Official Motto”. SCOTUS has left this alone for, as they stated, the term ‘GOD’ is not definitive of any specific religion.
This country was not founded on “Christian principals”, While there is mention of ‘Nature’s God’ and the ‘Creator’ in the Declaration of Independence, there is no mention of any god or Christianity in the Constitution or any subsequent amendment. What is said, quite prominently, in the first amendment is that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”. SCOTUS has used this statement to rule that if a governmental body desires to have a prayer, that an open invitation must be made for any and all prayers to be offered. Fairness and equity under the law. It really is not that hard a concept to grasp. As applied to this situation, the Flagler BOCC broke the law.
As for your other comments, you and many other commenters here, have anger issues. Perhaps you should spend some time with that Christian God of yours and re-learn Christ’s thoughts on welcoming those with different thoughts than yours. While at it, a few moments reflecting on the Great Commission might help you get your head straight. Both can be found in the Book of Matthew, that guy had a lot of great thoughts. Remember, Christ was a man of peace, to to honor Him with anger and hate is blasphemy.
I know that for many of the bible toting, wanna-be Christians today the concepts of E Pluribus Unum, inclusion and acceptance are beyond comprehension. What I do not understand is why you are so afraid of folks who are different than you . . .
YankeeExPat says
FESTIVUS FOR THE REST OF US !
Dick Abbott says
Based upon this article, we need some prayers. Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.
Heywood Jablomi says
Freedom of religion means freedom to discriminate. More Christians should read their bible, especially the nuggets of wisdom from Matthew. In so many words he told the sheep praying in public is hypocritical, and that they should go to their rooms and pray in private. Over the past four years Christians had the bully pulpit, but no more. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the U.S. and will continue to grow as more people become disgusted with Christian arrogance. Better yet, the white population here is in decline and within the next twenty or so years it will be the in the minority. E pluribus unum bitches. Out of many, one.
Dick Abbott says
And a very Merry Christmas to you too Heywood.
marlee says
How fitting…the week of the beginning of Hanukkah!
Dennis says
You chase God and Jesus out of America and then you pray fir their help. Then you wonder why God and ajesus has deserted America. They left it to the corrupt politicians.
Tina says
Once again Christians fail to realize not everyone is Christian.
Jane says
Nothing says they (non-Christians) can’t take that moment to pray/meditate to themselves in their own way. Praying is a way to open oneself to divine intervention. It can also make all people welcome, provides comfort and hope to people.
C Culpepper says
I always wonder who the intended audience is for public prayers such as this. God doesn’t need to hear it spoken aloud; He hears silent prayers just fine. Public prayers are more about the pray-ee than the pray-er and are often a miscalculated attempt at virtue signaling or even religious intimidation. Pray all you want in your car before the meeting but save the public display for church.
Public officials are to represent ALL of their constituents — not just those who share their religious beliefs.
Been There says
How insightful you are. The only reason this was done was to demonstrate to the right Christian base what a good Christian this HUGELY venial man is. Smoke and mirrors, folks. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Cameron serves noone but himself and the almighty dollar that can be put into his pocket.
Mark says
Keep your prayers hidden from public sight! They are not to be heard outside churches and homes!
Jordan says
I like how climate change, covid, social media, guns and freedom of speech get put under the same umbrella to enable full control over the human race. How do they convince us? They say WE are the problem, WE cannot travel, WE cannot own things. WE are not responsible enough to make decisions. we are facing a massive change to our very existence, and they are not even hiding it.
Sad citizen says
Our public officials have proven how inept they are again!
Stop playing church and start learning how to govern.
Mary Christmas says
God bless you all.
Stephen J Smith says
Whenever I hear anyone saying we need to put God back in schools, politics, or business. I have to ask. Whose God. Yours’s ? Mine?, Someone else’s ? We all have different visions of God and his/her words. Religion is a private matter between a person and their god.
Pierre Tristam says
You echo words argued (successfully) before the Supreme Court: Henry Sawyer III, the lawyer for Schempp in School District of Abington Township, Pennsylvania v. Schempp, arguing that case on February 28, 1963, before the Court on the second day of arguments, which you can hear here:
“… but let me say this very candidly. I think it is the final arrogance to talk constantly about our religious tradition in this country and acquaint it with this Bible. Sure, religious tradition, whose religious tradition? It isn’t any part of the religious tradition of substantial number of Americans of a great many — a great many things and really some of the salient features of the King James Version or the Douay Version to that matter. And it is just to me a little bit easy and I say arrogant to keep talking about our religious tradition. It suggests that the public schools at least to Pennsylvania are a kind of Protestant institutions to which others are cordially invited.”
starryid says
America is ONE NATION UNDER GOD and may He bless Jerry Cameron for opening that meeting by mentioning Him!
God Bless America & Merry Christmas!!
Jp says
The phrase “under God” was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance on June 14, 1954, by a Joint Resolution of Congress amending § 4 of the Flag Code enacted in 1942
Dedicated American says
Jerry Cameron had and has every right to say a prayer at any Meeting. Pierre you speak in your statement our country. This is not YOUR country when you report like an atheist. Our country iwas founded on Christian Judaea values. You come from a foreign country and have very bias opinions on our country and our county, right down to our President Trump. We all can categorize you with all the lying news stations reporting ALL untruths about our elections etc. We The People do not need people like you in our country. It would be nice if you went and worked for on of the Communist news stations.
Denali says
Holy Smokes, you must have gotten a double dose of that Kool-Aid. Of what are you so afraid? Someone who may hold different ideas that you? Are insults your only response? How about a well reasoned and refined statement of thought?
Who are you to say “we” do not need “people like you in our country”? You are but one voice in a shrinking number of individuals scared of no longer being the majority. The day is coming when we shall truly see equality and justice for all . . .
And please, do not lump all of us into your “we all” category. You do not speak for all of us.
American Born Patriot says
Shrinking number of individuals scared of no longer being the majority………….. You better research again cupcake. The “Silent Majority” is alive and well. And WE didn’t abort our babies. They will grow up to be fine outstanding PATRIOTS for America well into the 22 century …………..
TRUMP / GOWDY 2024
Eva says
What!! WHO do you think you speak for when you say WE THE PEOPLE? It is about time “you people” figure out that it is all of YOU who do not speak for ALL the people. Separation of church and state was established for a reason, go and study it! When you really are a “Dedicated American” you RESPECT that WE THE PEOPLE are from many backgrounds, many religions, many countries. You need to figure it out or back off while the rest of the real Americans welcome this diversity, and respect the LAW. Stop the juvenile name-calling and trying to distract by attacking media again, YAWN.
You, thank God, are a shrinking breed, get used to it.
Doug says
Jerry’s World…everyone else is just passing through.
capt says
What this word does need is a little more prayer. So much hate, so much dislike for anything these days. So much negativity in the press. Just so much negative PERIOD !. Give it time and those people whom seem to hate everything will have Christmas removed or re-written. But don’t worry it will only get worst.
snapperhead says
No need to worry….Christmas is too big a business for it to be removed any time soon.
Anthony McHale says
People write about America being founded on Christian beliefs and yet they worry that Christmas will somehow be taken away from them. They should be reminded that the Pilgrims (Puritans)…those very same people who first “settled” America and who had fled religious oppression in England felt somewhat different…
“Christmas celebrations in New England were illegal during parts of the 17th century, and were culturally taboo or rare in former Puritan colonies from foundation until the mid-18th century. The Puritan community found no scriptural justification for celebrating Christmas, and associated such celebrations with paganism and idolatry. Indeed, Christmas celebrations in 17th-century England involved Carnival-like behavior including role inversion, heavy drinking, and sexual liberties.”
Aside from being frivolous and entirely unnecessary for the salvation of true Christian souls, Christmas from the Puritan point of view was a source of ‘mischief’ for a variety of reasons. At best, it was a festivity with Catholic overtures, preserving as it did the “trappings of popery.” These ‘trappings’ were a reference in part to the central role of the Holy family in Christmas celebrations and in particular to the Virgin Mary who Catholics viewed as semi-divine but who the Puritans viewed as a complete irrelevance.
The pious Puritans who sailed from England in 1630 to found the Massachusetts Bay Colony brought with them something that might seem surprising for a group of devout Christians—contempt for Christmas. In a reversal of modern practices, the Puritans kept their shops and schools open and churches closed on Christmas, a holiday that some disparaged as “Foolstide.”
Just a little bit of history…
A.L. Ien says
Yea, like you GOD is so much better.
NEWS ALERT: GOD IS AN ALIEN
Craig Lee says
Neither Christian or not! I once held beliefs and convictions based on The Bible and it teachings. I still hold the beliefs, however the practice is not there. What amazes me most about this article and many of the follow up comments is that we are all free! Free to listen or not, free to attend or not, free to vote or not, free to watch or not. You get the message.
Now I watch TV for entertainment and over the years that entertainment has been highjacked by political and social issues, it no longer is about entertainment, but about a social message. What message? The message that normal is no longer normal, that in fact you should embrace everything as one’s choice and diversity is tantamount. Well if you mean that I must except (acknowledge, agree, accept or even nod with approval) everything that is portrayed is anything less than American or just demanded, then I contend that, no I do not conform. Without exception shows today included same sex lifestyles, semi pornographic content, blatant disregard for truth and honor, etc.. You can’t even get through one show today without someone forcing another drug to protect yourself from sexually transmitted diseases, ED, and other crazy lifestyles in the commercials. I long for the day (it will never happen) when entertainment returns to that, entertainment.
Now as to the prayer, who really gives a damn? If you don’t believe, then just ignore it, it can’t hurt if the prayer is prayed to someone that doesn’t exist as you suggest. Just do what I do with the entertainment, ignore it!
Mr. Editor, your eloquent portrayal of your views is commendable, but why not just lay low and report on the real issues in our community? Rape, Incest, Porn, Child Abuse, Wife Abuse, Hunger, Homelessness, Government overreach, Socialism, Extreme taxation and the like. I am sure there is so much more news your outlet can cover in an attempt to grandstand!
To those of you who replied with your negative voice about separation of church and state bull, get over it. If this is the only concern you have with our government operations you are misguided and confused. As I stated above if you don’t believe then what harm is it? Just don’t listen. Oh and if you haven’t attended a meeting and have decided to attend now that someone has presented a prayer, don’t waste your time. Find another cause and get behind it. Most likely you are a transplant that moved here because you hated where you lived in the past, funny if it is that bad here the road has a return lane. You will never find the perfect place.
These are just my thoughts, can’t wait to get blown up, but hey isn’t that the fun of this? You are afforded your thoughts, views and ideals, shouldn’t I be afforded mine?
Ben Hogarth says
Craig, your comments substantially disenfranchise millions of Americans with the idea that enshrining one religious belief over another in a public forum is something to simply “ignore.” Imagine if you would, a Muslim prayer being offered in the same context and setting… how about a Satanic (or pagan) one? Do you truly believe that the Christians proclaiming “religious freedom” would suddenly have the same opinion if they were forced to listen to something that doesn’t resonate (or stood in radical opposition) with their belief paradigm every time they attended a public meeting?
The point of Pierre’s article, and many many that have come before it on this issue, is that freedom “OF” and “FROM” religion are not exclusive. To believe in any one God, or no God at all is still a religious belief that has no business directing or influencing public business. The Bible’s use in the oathtaking process of public office or within a courtroom have also been criticized for the same reason. While it may be legal to swear on the Constitution over the Bible if one so chooses, there is a reason we take an oath to the Constitution and NOT to the Bible. We place our hands over the Bible (when we so choose) to affirm our desire to represent just causes and to have the blessings of divine providence in our actions and intentions. Obviously not all who swear such do. It is, however, a crime against the Constitution that is prosecuted under law – not the Bible. I wonder why that is?
Again, the implications of your “look the other way” approach are that some actions are acceptable in public forums simply because we can choose to ignore them freely. This argument fails on its face because the very act of embellishing one religion over another within a public forum IS forcing a people to listen to a message they may not want to hear. And in the context of public business, they have the right to NOT hear it if they so choose. You are taking that right away from them when you tell them “get over it.” In other words, you cannot legally redress an utterance once it has been uttered. Many courts have affirmed this notion.
So let it never be uttered in a public forum and thereby retain our secular designs. To “hell” with non-secular traditions in public forums. As a Christian, I see the veil of public actions interpreted as “Gods will” as a blasphemy against all. And it needs to end.
You are afforded your right to believe as you wish, but you do NOT have the right to enshrine your beliefs in a public forum.
Craig Lee says
Apparently you didn’t read my thoughts, I didn’t condone or condemn the practice just stating facts about the outrage. I could care less what kind of prayer you have, it’s not about the prayer as much as it is about the Karen’s who complain about everything.
Sir I do accept your rights and also my rights, but where does the censorship and complaining end. This slippery slop is out of control, the “woke” movement ruling the majority.
Good day sir, we agree to disagree, although you didn’t read my response, maybe try again.
Fernando Melendez says
I’d rather they stick with a moment of silence. This is the best way to protect everyone’s own religious beliefs. Respect all! And why is it so hard to understand or know what the meaning of a Public meeting is?
Mythoughts says
If County Commissioners want to open meetings with a prayer they need to take their positions elsewhere and go preach and say their prayers in a church.
I am a Christian but I don’t instill my beliefs on others. I pray at home or in the church of my choice.
So County Commissioners do your job taxpayers are paying you to do and that is to improve Flagler County and there is plenty of work that needs to be done.
Pogo says
@Pierre Tristam, and everyone speaking so well in agreement with him
Thank goodness for all of you.
When Republicans prey (speak of love of God, country, etc.) – count the silverware and hold on to your wallet. Always. Every time.
Follow the money:
VA News Releases
VA announces joint final rule on Equal Treatment of Faith-Based Organizations in VA-Supported Social Service Programs
12/14/2020 09:24 AM EST
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) today announced a joint final rule with eight other agencies – the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Labor, the Department of Education, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Department of Agriculture and the Agency for International Development – to implement President Trump’s May 3, 2018 Executive Order No. 13831, on the Establishment of a White House Faith and Opportunity Initiative.
https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USVHA/bulletins/2b10272
Allyn Feinstein says
General Rule of Thumb: The showier the prayer display, the less Christian the performer.
Pogo says
@Pierre is right
Flagler County and Palm Coast are world-famous for insipid, vacuous “Christ-shun-inanity”
https://www.google.com/search?q=better+caul+saul%2Bpalm+coast