Palm Coast City Council member Steven Nobile wants a broad review of the city’s charter. Why he does so, other than that the city hasn’t had such a review in 15 years, and what exactly he would like to change, isn’t clear, at least not overtly. And the more his council colleagues pressed him on it, the more upset he got today.
people aren’t remembering the fact.”
“Can you tell us what it is in the charter that’s got you concerned?” council member Bill McGuire asked him, about 35 minutes into the discussion Nobile had started on the matter.
“Nothing’s got me concerned,” Nobile said.
“You’re obviously agitated about it,” McGuire said.
“I’m agitated because we’re trying to leave the people out of the process of them making a decision on their charter for how their government works, that’s what I’m upset about. I’m not upset about anything in the charter.”
“You represent a sizeable amount of people, you’re their mouthpiece,” McGuire said. “So what’s bothering them?”
‘They want a charter review,” Nobile said.
“Because?”
“Because there are some things that they potentially would like to see changed.”
“What would they like to see changed?” Mayor Jon Netts asked.
“Again, I will bring them here. I will get them and I will bring them here for you to make the decision whether we do it or not,” Nobile snapped, his voice rising to within a whisker of a shout. “And that’s what I’m against, is that you’re going to make the decision, see? You’re not getting it. You’re not getting it. I am not upset about what the people want changed, if they want something. I’m upset that we’re not giving them the opportunity to do something that—”
“That’s not true,” Netts interrupted him. “Why are we discussing Richardson Drive at all? Because residents came to city council, said we’ve got an issue.” Netts was citing an issue that just last month Nobile himself had raised on behalf of residents—tensions that have again risen in the neighborhood around Ralph Carter Park, in Palm Coast’s R-Section—and successfully steered the council toward addressing.
And still, Nobile would not say who or what his constituents had a problem with in the charter: in the history of the council, and certainly in the past five years, hardly anyone has appeared before the council to suggest a change, let alone push for one, in the charter. There’s been allusions to a referendum on red-light cameras, but that never amounted to more than claims.
Deciphering the political motives behind a charter review no resident has asked for in years.
And a 50-minute discussion of the matter at a council workshop today only tangentially prodded the unpredictable elephant in the room when Netts said: “I have heard one person one person and one person only stand up at a city council meeting and say, I want to change the charter. I’ve heard one person out of 78,000. There may be hundreds of others. I heard one.”
Netts was referring to Dennis McDonald, Nobile’s fellow-member of the Ronald Reagan Republican Assemblies, the hard-right Republican group. In the fall of 2012, McDonald pushed the notion of a petition-driven change to the charter. He wanted to change the form of government from one employing a city manager to one with a strong mayor instead. (McDonald and Jim Landon, the Palm Coast manager, are as close to sworn enemies as there are in Flagler’s government dynamics, and McDonald’s feelings toward Netts aren’t much warmer.)
In an interview late this afternoon, Nobile clarified as much: “From salaries to the type of structure we have, like we have a mayor-manager” form of government, Nobile said, “is that still how people wants us to work, not how the council wants it to work?”
Several people he has spoken to, Nobile said, want to lower the threshold where the council gets involved in approving contracts’ dollar amounts. People, he said, “are a little concerned that the manager has too much leeway into getting things done on his own and they want to bring that back to the council, I hear that a lot—not displeasure with Mr. Landon, but if we’re going to have a council and the council is going to manager the decisions, the council should be involved in the decisions. That was the gist of what they would like to see.” But switching to a strong-mayor structure is “not what they want,” Nobile said–merely altering the involvement ratio between council and administrative decisions.
Asked for other specific changes he was inclined to ask for or he’s heard his constituents ask for, Nobile cited two: younger adults are asking for higher council member salaries (currently just under $10,000 a year) so the elected position would not be held only by those who can afford it, or by those who are retired. And his constituents want all business meetings to be held in the evening, rather than one in the morning and one in the evening. The council has two such meetings a month. There is no issue with morning workshops, Nobile said. The discussion never got to those specifics today, he said, because he got disturbed by the council’s push-back on the notion of involving the public without council filter.
Nobile conceded that such changes may not rise to the level of charter amendments, and he plans on proposing them himself at some point, but he repeatedly stressed that he wanted the public to have its say without council interference when it comes to devising how the council governs itself.
Nobile won’t say so, but it is likely that the push for a charter review originates again with McDonald and the Reagan group, which could change the charter in such a way as to make it easier for its members to win seats—as, for example, by making city elections partisan, as opposed to the current non-partisan system. Partisan elections would enable closed primaries, vaulting the GOP’s more extreme candidates (that is, the Reagan group’s choices) to the fore.
That’s why Nobile wasn’t wrong today when he sensed—and repeatedly complained about—the council’s resistance to his proposal. Council members don’t want the charter radicalized. They’re going to use what means they have to hedge against such a possibility, though state law, the current charter and any review process inherently guards against radical changes: even if Nobile were to succeed in getting a charter review commission established, the commission would have to be made up of one member from each of the council districts, and an at-large member designated by the mayor. The make-up would more likely than not neutralize Nobile’s choice, and refract the council’s desire for a more cautious than radical review.
That’s assuming there is a palpable wish for a charter review among Palm Coast’s voters. For now, there clearly has not been. The council wasn’t blunting Nobile’s efforts, but making the point that if there had been a movement to change the charter, it would have heard about it—and acted on it.
Nobile today sought to project a different narrative, and at least in this respect unfairly so (if the last many years’ record of silence on the charter is any indication), by portraying the council as a barrier against a citizen-initiated review.
“It’s unfortunate but if we don’t do it, that’s what I’m going to push,” he said, referring to a citizen-driven petition to review the charter. “I’m talking about the people making the decision.”
But that would be very difficult.
As City Attorney Bill Reischmann outlined the process, state law and Palm Coast’s charter control how the charter may be changed. Council members could change the charter by ordinance then submit the change for approval in a referendum. Or 25 percent of the city’s registered voters could petition a specific change to the charter. That approach does not mean a wholesale re-writing. But it does allow the submission of an unlimited number of specific changes.
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State law requires just 10 percent of registered voters to petition for a charter amendment, but state law defers to city charters when it comes to which of the two prevails. Palm Coast’s charter on that sore states specifically: “At least 25 percent of the qualified electorate of the City shall have the power to petition the Council to propose an ordinance or to require reconsideration of an adopted ordinance, or to propose an amendment to this Charter. If the Council fails to adopt such ordinance or amendment so proposed, or to repeal such adopted ordinance, without any change in substance, then the Council shall place the proposed ordinance or amendment, or the repeal of the adopted ordinance, on the ballot at the next general election.”
The city’s charter does open the way for a charter review at least 10 years after the original charter was adopted. But it does not require it.
Reischmann cautioned that any charter review could result in an innumerable number of recommended charter changes, all of which would have to be submitted to voters. It could just as well result in two recommended changes. (Bunnell’s charter review process resulted in nine recommendations two years ago, all of which voters approved.) To have a better product, Reischmann said, the charter committee process must have enough funding and staff, including an attorney always present, so they have a “targeted overhaul,” avoiding a scattershot approach. He projected a more controlled process than what people at large may assume such a review entails, riling Nobile.
Should a charter review committee be organized, it would not automatically mean that its recommendations would go before voters. “I don’t read this to say that we have to put those recommendations on the ballot,” Reischmann said, referring to the city charter as it now is.
That position may be in dispute: the charter’s wording strongly suggests that what recommendations the committee proposes would have to go before voters. The charter reads that after the committee completes its work and present any recommendations for change no later than 60 days before the general election, the council “shall hold a minimum of two public hearings on the proposed changes to the Charter prior to placing the proposed changes on the scheduled general election ballot.”
City Manager Jim Landon spoke of his own past experience, in previous cities, of seeing the review process in action. “It’s intended to be a framework that lasts a long, long time, but they always have to be tweaked,” he said of charters. But he recalls an occasion when the charter hadn’t been reviewed in decades. The city thought of starting over. It hired a facilitator and an attorney and presented either 34 or 43 ballot measures to voters. “It went down big time,” he said, with every proposal, the preamble included, rejected at the polls.
“What I’m really going to strongly suggest to you is, our charter is not that old,” Landon said. Several years ago council members rethought the charter but the only item they thought needed changing was the timing of city elections, changing it from odd years to even years, to coincide with general and state elections and save money. Voters approved. Landon suggested the same incremental approach could be implemented again.
“If city council wants a review of the charter, then you have work to do first,” Landon said, “and that is do your own review as to what issues you think should be evaluated. If you take people who haven’t been involved in this and put them in a room and say, go do something, without any guidance as to what specific issue, what targeted issues you would like them to look at, it will be a long, usually very frustrating process. If you have specific issues you want them to look at and come up with a recommendation, give them that task. But I think you have to give them a task and not just tell them throw out our charter and start over again, because that’s really not what it’s intended to be.”
Netts suggested that as the council does its homework, its members should speak with members of the original charter commission such as Palm Coast historian Art Dyke, Arnold Levine and Vincent Liguori. (Liguori later noted that neither he nor the other two men had been on the charter panel. He had served on the Home Rule Coalition.)
“I think the issue though, with a charter review is,” Nobile said, “a major majority of people who are here today don’t know those people, because the city has changed, and that is the purpose of a charter review. Is the charter in line with what the current constituency wants, not what we want. We don’t sit here and say, we want this. If we’re going to do a charter review and we’re going to sit down and make suggestions, I’d say forget it. It’s not worth it. This is not about a council. This is bigger than—this is, how does the city want us to function, not us.”
To Landon, what Nobile was talking about had little to do with charter review and a lot to do with “visioning,” which Nobile in turn batted down, saying that process is taken care of by citizen surveys.
“Now, do I want a rewrite? I don’t want a rewrite,” Nobile said, rejecting the notion of throwing out the charter. “I’m saying go through the charter with this committee and find the points that someone on the committee has contention with, and then work it out.” He stressed his opposition to the council serving as a filter or arbitrator of issues that get to the committee.
If that’s the approach, Netts said, then 25 percent of the city’s registered voters could petition for a charter change. (He estimated the city’s registered voters at around 30,000, which would require 7,500 signatures on a petition. In fact, there are about 55,000 registered voters in the city—there are 74,000 registered voters in Flagler County as a whole—so the requirement would be closer to 14,000 signatures, a very high hurdle for any charter change initiated by voters.)
“Steve I’ve got to tell you, I think I could ask 100 people over the next couple of days that I don’t know, and they will have never read the charter, they wouldn’t know what’s in the charter, and they would have absolutely no opinion on the type of government we’re running,” DeLorenzo said.
“Really?” Nobile said. “OK, it’s fine.”
“My family doesn’t have a clue. They still don’t know what a city manager does,” Landon said.
Landon and DeLorenzo are very close to the truth: even judging from the responses to routine or controversial government stories on this site, from residents who show at least some familiarity with the process and sustained interest in issues and voting, misunderstandings are rife about the city’s authority, the lines between city and county jurisdictions, the scope of state law on local governments. As to any familiarity with the charter, it is extremely unlikely that most people, council members among them, know even its basic parameters without having to look it up—if they know where to look, or if, as most residents likely do not, if they know that there is a city charter to start with, or know what it means.
That’s when Nobile began losing his patience, speaking of his constituents who work and can’t be at council meetings, and whose ideas should be heard more intently. He again stressed that a majority of council members should not block an independent review. But other council members rejected the notion that residents were not aware of council proceedings: they listen to meetings, they said (and they follow the news, presumably).
What became clear after today’s discussion is that Nobile is isolated on the larger question of a charter review commission.
“What I’m saying is, one more time, that what the people come up with goes on the referendum. It is not subject to the council to decide,” Nobile said.
In a brief interview after the meeting, DeLorenzo compared the city’s charter to a constitution that should not be altered lightly. “I have not had anyone come talk to me to say something is amiss with the charter,” DeLorenzo said. “I’m not familiar with anything that needs to be changed with the charter. So unless someone explains to me what the problem is or some citizens give me some guidance on what needs to be changed, I don’t find it necessary to have a charter review.” He added, “If a group of citizens comes and says this should be changed, it would be something the council would consider, and we do that all the time, we do that just about every meeting.”
Nobile in the interview said he would be seeking out input from people he’s discussed charter matters with previously. “If I get that feedback then I will bring it to the council and say, this is what my constituency is asking for,” Nobile said.
A.S.F. says
The Ronald Reagan Republican Club…The monster that the Tea Party created…and as close to a facist minded organization than anyone is likely to see this side of Mussolini’s grave.
Tom Jacks says
Do you even know what fascism is? It is government control of privately owned business. Or in other words the modern democratic party platform.
A.S.F. says
@Tom Jacks Says–“Do you even know what Fascism is?” Let me clue you in, T.J.. This definition comes straight from the pages of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary– “FASCISM: A way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government. : very harsh control or authority.” Perfect definitions for the mind-set and conduct of the Ronald Reagan Republican Club. I rest my case.
Local says
Yep, Obama’s America.
Virgil F says
The march to 2016 elections begins with Nobile’s weak transparent opening shot. Nobile seeks to create an election issue beneficial to his Reagan Assembly masters and the queen of the RR nuts Mdm. Shaffer. Shaffer is already lining up right wing support but needs other unsuspecting voters to run for mayor and needs some issue, any issue, to become controversial that can provide a public platform to make herself as famous as McDonald. RR’s want to take over the county and Palm Coast governments to inflict their pure politics on the rest of us. RRs will run their puppets for every city and county office in 2016. Unfortunately, they already have Nobile. A bad start Mr. Nobile. VF
Layla says
I think I have to agree with Councilman Nobile on this one. We have unelected officials making key decisions for the voters here in the form of a city manager. When the city manager took $8.5 million from the city storm water fund to help finance the new location for The Walmart center at the corner of Old King’s and 100, he did so illegally, I believe. I was present at the council meeting where he stated he did not realize his mistake, that it occurred on the first day of his employment with the city. If these facts are correct, the law was broken, mistake or no mistake. Did we ever get that money back? IIf he was hired as the city manager shouldn’t the residents have the right to expect he would know the law? Under the current system, the voters have no recourse and the council is not accountable.
I think most residents here would like to see our elected officials held more accountable for their actions, such as building a new city hall when the voters voted it down. Politicians at all levels don’t seem to be listening to the voters much anymore.
There have been many rumors that the city manager makes more money than the Governor. Is this true?
I am not sure as to why the council would object to this or get so angry at Councilman Nobile. I think he does a terrific job for Palm Coast. I am also not sure why this would alter the system of voting here. Is that not a state law?
Keep up the good work, Councilman Nobile. This voter appreciates what you are doing on our behalf.
NortonSmitty says
Un-Elected does not mean un-corruptable, but there’s a better chance of noticing the slime..
Brian says
Um ;pretty much 70% of the people were against red light cams , even the county asked for them not put on their road , the people said they didnt want you building a new City hall use one of the hundreds of empty buildings in town , people don`t want notices and fines when you guys think our lawn is an inch too long, we didnt want you to build two pools down in Seminole woods and raise our water bills so US 1, wont get water on it , but now we know that is because you sold land to dig in , and make a lake that will prolly flood US1, everything you ;people decide to do you do it against our will even when we vehemently tell you NO That is what Mr Nobile is talking about , your not listening to a thing we say your lining your pockets with dirty money
Wayne Perry says
I do not want to see the strength of any political party sway the goings on of city matters. The city is not a Republican/Democrat public arena. Part of this story made it sound like the Ronald Reagan Republicans were trying to take over Palm Coast. While it could be exaggerated journalism, I am sure there is some truth to it.
I would say that a charter review on what the city mgr does may be warranted. Perhaps that position could be eliminated and one created that will help make Flagler a great place for the working man and woman.
Dave Wettlaufer says
Steve is on our side and the rest of the council wants the same ol same ol. The town has grown like 5 times over and we should be looking at things. We have a rep of living in a bit of a prison town….aint that a bitch?
Bon Bell says
Oh boy, knew a rock was being lifted….but “living in a bit of a PRISON town”… OH the humanity…living in Palm Coast.
NortonSmitty says
I just read a list of the 10 Worst Places to Live in Florida. Palm Coast was #10. Opa-Locka was not on the list. Havimg lived in Opa-Locka, I question the validity of the list. Having lived in Palm Coast, I’m not proud of this defense.
Terry Peres says
It is called continuous improvement. If you are not regularly reviewing processes, they become stagnant. Claiming citizen ignorance should not matter. That is a justification for keeping the status quo, when there is always room for improvement. Politics, it is like a self-licking ice cream cone.
Ron Hertel says
What exactly does this review entail? How much does it cost to do this review? I can pull up the charter on the Internet, so something’s clearly not being said here. You can’t claim conservatism, then insist on an expensive project for an inexplicable reason.
Layla says
Yet you have no problem paying an unelected official more than the Governor makes?
Martha Merriman Barberino says
Dennis McDonald/Ronald Reagan Republicans… say no more except no! The City Charter is fine.
Dave Wettlaufer says
Really? LOL
Ryan Drinkhahn says
According to the article “the city hasn’t had such a review in 15 years”, and since the City of Palm Coast is only 15 yrs old, it may be time for a review. When the city was voted into being, Sept 1999, the population of the city was around 12500. Now ti is closer to 100,000. There may be some things in the charter that it is time to adjust, but we will never know without a review.
Ray Thorne says
In 1999 the population was around 30,000 in Palm Coast. The 2000 census showed 32,832 people in Palm Coast (and not the 12,500 you’re stating). Today there are 75,180 people in Palm Coast. You get close to the 100,000 mark if you included the county population in your math.
Dave Wettlaufer says
Tell them, Steven Nobile!
Mark Tiger says
No, No, No Steven Nobile, Crazy Ronald Regan Right Wing Nut Job. Nobody but you and your loony cronies want this change. Did not vote for you and would never vote for any RRR candidates
Rob says
The I want to keep things just as they are crowd will push back on any changes to the charter.
There is a reason meetings are held during the day. It keeps certain demographics off of the town council.
Darn right this city has the wrong form of government and just because those who believe it don’t stand up at a council meeting and say so doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Ralph Belcher says
Good luck, councilman, on the City Charter. Clearly a political club’s axe to grind. I have no trust in this group at all. Being an American, I support their right to exist, but they have as much right to govern me as they have the right to insist I practice a particular faith or a particular sexual orientation.
I feel that the good of the public is not served well when a rather narrow segment of the populace tries to “impose” its’ ideals and try to overrun the government. I don’t want to be governed by them. I am confident that they do not have my interests at heart. It’s just that simple.
Bon Bell says
City Council / Palm Coast: you really should have read this extremists posts on a blog or two. He LOATHES our City Mgmt & any non-extreme right-wing Tea Party ideology. So…this is what you get…a living hell for Palm Coast. Hope you like Green Eggs & Ham and closing down government.
Will (#1) says
“If I get that feedback then I will bring it to the council and say, this is what my constituency is asking for,” Nobile said.
I thought his constituency was DISTRICT 4 for which he was elected. I live in that district and haven’t heard a word for an urgent need for a charter reveiw. Here’s the current city district map: http://maps.palmcoastgov.com/Ex_FlexViewer_AGISO_VoterApp1/
What constituency is Mr. Nobile talking about? Is there a secret – or not-so-secret – agenda in play here? Are the RRR folks calling the shots, or some other group like left handed New York people west of Belle Terre?
Anita says
“Is the charter in line with what the current constituency wants, not what we want.” Based on Mr. Nobile’s premise that ‘newbies’ to Palm Coast don’t know those who enacted the current City Charter, why not re-write the Constitution while we’re at it since none of us were around when it was drafted (and term limits for the SCOTUS sounds like a nifty idea to me). But, Really. Mr. Nobile! With all of the problems facing Palm Coast, rewriting the Charter is what keeps you up all night? Moreover, your mentor, Dennis McDonald is no poor, “working” man by any stretch of the word, nor are most of the Reaganites, so whose interests do you really serve? No one, other than your radical, right wing cronies are concerned with the City Charter.
ZS says
Actually right wings are reactionists, and the left are the radicals. So if you’re saying he wants change, a radical change at that, you’re basically calling him a liberal. He is only reacting to his constituents, I have emailed him and asked for a review, as I’m sure countless others have. If he were more clear about what he wanted and wanted it done fast, that would be more radical. However, he has only suggested the charter be reviewed and if anything is out of date or needs to be changed, the people should know. Basically someone should break down the charter for the general public and outline any concerns they may have, as long as it’s in a way a regular person can understand.
Mike says
Steve
We all have your back, great job today never give in and keep fighting for us. The Mayor needs to step down, he has a failed history of leading Palm Coast. He comes to us as a Master of Industry from up north and can’t get the basics done here in Palm Coast. Time for a Charter Review and time for the Mayor and City Manager to go. Nett’s won on a sham election primary anyway, he is the clown of clowns thinking all the residents are buying tickets to his show. He needs to step down now.
I love reading his BIO and Resume on the city web-site, the greatness he brings and thinks of himself is off the chart, and yet he can’t get the grass cut at Matanzas Woods. Beyond the scope of his abilities. And he thinks he can tackle major city issues with the ring leader city manager.
Mike says
Everyone in the city of Palm Coast should watch the Mayor do business at these city meetings, watch the tapes, he always keeps running his mouth about side meetings and talk about it after the meeting. He never wants anything on record and will not answer on record. I am just very curious how much city business gets done without the city residents in the loop. Jon the great pontificator Nett’s who knows all as he beats his little gavel and barks orders to no one who will listen. If he could ever get over his own self importance and get down to business we might have a chance to save Palm Coast from himself and his puppet the city manager. When you are so far out of touch with the town there is nothing else to do but believe your own fantasy of how great you are.
Groot says
Forget the right wing, left wing junk and just focus on a charter review. I mean why not, can’t hurt. Maybe pay the city councilmen as full time elected officials and hold council meetings when all can attend? I like it, it levels the playing field and invites participation and inclusion.
Lin says
It sure sounds like the others on the council would like to keep the citizens silent in the charter.
When the council, under cover of the unelected and extremely well-paid city manager, can push through an agenda and keep their hands clean of it all — a review of how the Charter represents us
all is a great idea. We don’t need a ceremonial mayor and council to cut ribbons at restaurant openings. We need those elected to council to represent our views
I agree with Nobile on this one. That there hasn’t been demonstrations at meetings doesn’t mean we are at all happy with the current state of the city representatives. Don’t know who has been surveyed — in 12 years here I have never gotten one and don’t know anyone who has. RRRs? Nothing to do with it Nobile is bringing up something lots of us have talked about — the almost absolute power of an unelected person to affect policy. I’m for review and change of this system.
I remember attending those city hall presentations of Landon — smoke & mirrors, numbers that did not make any fiscal sense. But a city hall for a pretty city is in the works anyway. Don’t let the fact that Nobile has an RRR connection keep citizens out of the process. That is not the issue.
Ok goodnight
Brad W says
“a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidding appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.” – The Federalist Papers (1787)
This is exactly the kind of stunts that should cause everyone in the City and County concern. Steven Nobile isn’t sitting on the Council to “serve the people”. He’s sitting on that Council to serve McDonald and Ronald Reagan Assembly. Nobile and this group are seeking to control and they will use the political process to do just that as we see here in this weak attempt.. IF Steven Nobile really has SO many people coming to him concerned about the Charter then he need to have that crowd come forward to meetings and explain their concerns. NO council person has the right to demand changes and reviews that could have far-reaching implications for all residents simply because they want. That’s the reason there is a council of several rather than one. And any council making a claim that reviews and change are necessary should very well come with real evidence to support that need.
What is more concerning than anything is that we live in a county that has extremely low voter turnout for local posts (often under 20%). Yet so many want to exclaim that our local posts are negatively impacting their lives and are riddled with corruption. The real truth, as history has dictated, is that the RR group is a prime example of how a radical political group using the political process for their personal gain can be far more dangerous than a militant terrorist group. There is a shining example of the result that can be found by simply looking back to pre-WWII Germany and a radical political party that rose to power and wreaked havoc on personal liberty everywhere using many of the same tactics we see here with Nobile and his group. And that German political group was also considered “conservative”.
Look what they have done with the REC and now are seeking to systematically change our local government for more power. People should be concerned and the best way to stop them is at the ballot box by rejecting every single candidate associated with them.
LOVEPC says
So Nobile wants to be involved with City contracts and wants to police the City Manager’s decisions? City Council members can be from any profession; would you really want a hair stylist or a tow truck driver deciding on City contracts and other City items? There are employees specifically educated to make the decisions. The City Manager is educated to be a City Manager. The Charter is working and has been working for 15 years, there is a reason for that, it works. Think about your own business, would you grab people off the street that may know some of your operations and have them make big decisions for you or would you rely on your educated employees who live the job 5-7 days a week and absolutely know the workings of your business?
tulip says
Nobile is speaking for the Reagan Rats, and it’s infamous troublemaker whose wife is on the school board. this group is slowly getting their people elected into various positions and have been for the last few years but nobody pays attention to who ‘s who,and the more of them that get elected for something, the worse off we are going to be. Yes,here are people who don’t like Landon or Netts, and there are people who do like them, even if they don’t like everything they do. In any case, they are better than the RRR people will ever be!
No city or county government will ever be able to please all the residents all the time, but at least keep the close minded, dictatorial RRR people out of it.
confidential says
I am NOT a Ronald Regan or Tea Party member I am just a resident taxpayer in Palm Coast to make my next words clear.
The number one issue that I always had with the city charter since 1999 and that asked to be resolved without success is; why we pay the county (in our homes yearly taxes) double of what we pay the city of Palm Coast when the county only provides us with maybe 30% of our services within the city and the City of Palm Coast provides us with the 70% or more of our services?. My home taxes show line by line; County general Fund $1,016 plus 3 lines of county bonds (Taj Mahals in Rte 100) total $72= total $1088, then my Palm Coast City line only gets $541 when P.C supplies probably 70% or more of my city dweller services. When I asked several times about it I was referred to our goofed city charter…Maybe was done under duress then in 1999 given the strong opposition of the county against Palm Coast incorporation. We really got a raw deal on the charter and even our neighbors in the western part of the county know about it.
Also I have to agree with Councilman Nobile here regarding the bypassing of Palm Coasters in decisions like building the 15 million so far City Hall anyway in spite of a redundant and thundering NO by referendum. Like Lyla above knows using our utility reserves for the South Old Kings road infrastructure for Walmart and also the purchase of private lands and the infrastructure of Boulder Rock to benefit the Town Center Developer, as well the used and never returned over 5 million for the Town enter CRA. All those millions instead should have been utilized to repair and improve our decaying storm water system and a much needed 2nd sewer plant. When we supported our city government to buy out our utility for us we did it knowing as promised that our rates will remain under control without skyrocketing increases….and the opposite took place because city wasted utility reserves to benefit developers and then raised our rates to make up for that.
If Mr. Nobile can tell me that the charter can be redone and we force the county to give us city residents and not only Palm Coast but all city residents (as actually FB residents pay even higher share to the county than we do in PC) the fair share of the taxes we pay in our homes for sure he can have me and friends on board for change. Prevailing that this greedy county will not raise its taxes on us after the redistribution. Also if no longer city administration can dismiss the peoples choice by referendum, that will get my support as well and this council will need to support you Mr. Nobile.
I totally disagree with the uninformed majority of Palmcoaster’s mentioned by Councilman DeLorenzo…of course after his wife head of the FCCOC hurdle their members to support, vocalize and be present on city council meetings (when most affected Palmcoaster’s are absent at work) giving outstanding Yes to all those city decisions mentioned above, then the absent majority don’t count. Mr. McGuire words not a surprise as usual. I love Palm Coast and I do not hate its administration or council to the contrary, I think our current manager is an upgrade to us from his predecessor (Mr. Kelton) this man is very savvy I just wish he will work more for us, the city taxpayers and council has the key to that. Current charter as per FL posted before: https://flaglerlive.com/wp-content/uploads/palm-coast-charter.pdf
Emile says
Hmm, I think I was snookered by Steven Nobile’s claim to represent the all citizens of Palm Coast. He was careful to show that he was not beholden to the Ronald Reagan Republicans before the election. Now this?
Will says
Steven Nobile has no claim to fame other than being the spokesman for the RRR. He won his seat by beating a sick person who didn’t really campaign for the position.
For those who feel all meetings should be held in the evening, you are either ill informed or short-sighted.
Many older citizens have difficulties attending evening meetings. The Charter addressed the issue by having one meeting in the daytime and one in the evening. And I don’t see large crowds at most evening meetings.
The writers of the original Charter were wise in making the Council non-partisan. The object was to have councilmen deal rationally with issues, and not be unduly pressured into towing any radical party line.
Layla says
Councilman Nobile has lived in this area for over 25 years, I believe. He owns and operates a business here. That is why I voted for him. He has a history of being involved in his community.
After reading the comments here, small wonder people here don’t vote. You are not informed enough to do so.
YankeeExPat says
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx
Gia says
Charter is here to stay as it. I’m from district 4 & never heard anything like the yoyo said. Nobile you just make noise for nothing as usual. Go buy yourself an ice cream or lolipop
a tiny manatee says
And pretty much everyone under 60 is working, and can’t attend meetings during the day. Maybe turn off Matlock twice a month and attend a meeting in the evening instead of complaining about it?
carol mikola says
Nobile is incapable of dealing with anyone who questions his point of view without getting angry; he is thin-skinned and cannot bear any criticism. This is one reason that he should never have run for office. The reasons that he should never have been elected are too numerous to count. He is ruled by the Ronald Reagan “Republican” Assembly who have inflicted untold damage on the community and on the Republican Party. Rumor has it that he has been selected by the RRR’s to run for mayor in 2016. So in addition to bringing up bogus issues before the council, wasting their time and the city attorney’s time, he pretends that it’s all for the people. Perhaps worst of all, he seems to lack even the most basic understanding of how representative government works. He might want to consider resigning from the council for his own sake and for the sake of the people he supposedly represents.
tulip says
If it’s not convenient for a person to attend a PC city council meeting, they can either watch it on tv or watch it’s rebroadcast on Thursday early evening. The schedule is on the city website, palmcoast.gov
It’s interesting to see how many people make it to a meeting when there is something on the agenda that really has their sincere interest. The rest of the time, they don’t bother. I think most of us are that way though.
Rich Mikola says
Why won’t most people write comments under their own names? Are you afraid your neighbors will find out that your a right wing nut job? Grow up!!!
confidential says
If now council is “Non Partisan” why Mayor Netts as I benn told years ago, changed from original Dem in NJ to Rep to run for mayor, just like some in the county government done? Also why then you allege the RRR affiliation of Nobile is influencing his request of Charter review by the citizens? Please do not politicize what is not. Also Nobile won in good terms not because he run against a sick person…C’mon and not because was voted only by the RRR. Cut the Kool-Aid please
LovePC says
A prospective city charter review is not the real issue here. This is another step in an ill-disguised, persistent and pervasive plan by the Ronald Reagan Republican Assemblies to take over the Palm Coast city government. To what end we don’t know. What we do know is that the RRRA believes, with no hint of evidence, that we live in the “most corrupt city in America” and that all of our local council members, the mayor and the city manager are absolutely corrupt and should be “hauled out in shackles”. Like their national counterparts, the RRRA is working hard to undermine cooperative government by promoting doubt and dissention.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a charter review. But if we do it, I’ll wager that the RRRA will fire up their small but vocal minority of voters to co-opt the review, change the charter to eliminate the nonpartisan city manager’s position, then elect their candidate for mayor (Dennis McDonald?) and rule the city. That would be the end of grass, flowers, trees and shrubs, walking paths, parks, golf courses and most other amenities that make Palm Coast a great place to live.
All reasonable Palm Coasters need to be very wary of the radical agenda of the RRRA and their personal councilman, Steve Nobile. If he wants a charter review, be very afraid! We have a great city here. We are peaceful, cooperative and friendly. We don’t need radical, divisive politics in Palm Coast.
PROPC says
A prospective city charter review is not the real issue here. This is another step in an ill-disguised, persistent and pervasive plan by the Ronald Reagan Republican Assemblies to take over the Palm Coast city government. To what end we don’t know. What we do know is that the RRRA believes, with no hint of evidence, that we live in the “most corrupt city in America” and that all of our local council members, the mayor and the city manager are absolutely corrupt and should be “hauled out in shackles”. Like their national counterparts, the RRRA is working hard to undermine cooperative government by promoting doubt and dissention.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a charter review. But if we do it, I’ll wager that the RRRA will fire up their small but vocal minority of voters to co-opt the review, change the charter to eliminate the nonpartisan city manager’s position, then elect their candidate for mayor (Dennis McDonald?) and rule the city. That would be the end of grass, flowers, trees and shrubs, walking paths, parks, golf courses and most other amenities that make Palm Coast a great place to live.
All reasonable Palm Coasters need to be very wary of the radical agenda of the RRRA and their personal councilman, Steve Nobile. If he wants a charter review, be very afraid! We have a great city here. We are peaceful, cooperative and friendly. We don’t need radical, divisive politics in Palm Coast.
Out with the old and new with the new says
There is no justification for Mc Guire to conduct himself in such an unprofessional manner towards another councilman. Since when does Nobile have to answer to McGuire, he is only responsible to answer to those who elected him! Sounds to me McGuire and other council members and the Mayor, City Manager and Reischmann (Attorney) are concerned and doing all they can to prevent this. One thing for sure is the charter needs to be changed to allow the voters to vote (preferably by an all mail election) to replace a city elected official if they leave office within the first 2 years of their term, and NOT allow an appointment. As we can see Nobile is outnumbered and we would be sure to get more of the same ol if the current charter language remains. It is insane to think that the charter shouldn’t be reviewed after 15 years of not doing so. It would be irresponsible of the elected officials to not do so.
PJ says
A Charter review? Why not? It takes a long time but why not have some folks that are willing to volunteer their time to make recommendations that the Council has to vote on?
Why is the rest of the Council so standoffish?
Its just a check and balance no need to fear it, simply embrace it………….PJ