The Bunnell City Commission, the Flagler County Commission and the Flagler County School Board should take note: the Brevard County Commission on Tuesday agreed to pay out $490,000 in a settlement to end a lawsuit stemming from the commission illegally starting its meetings with Christian prayers.
They should take note, because just as Brevard is discovering that it doesn’t pay to break the law or play footsies with Christianity under the guise of pandering to the god crowd, Bunnell continues to break the law as it’s done for years, and the Flagler County Commission, under the chairmanship of Dave Sullivan, just started doing so. The school board tried almost exactly what Brevard was doing, but thankfully, more sober heads prevailed.
Before you panic, I’m not saying that all prayers in all circumstances are a bad idea. Well, at government meetings, I am: if we are to stick to the First Amendment in the spirit and the letter that, say, we now stick to the Second, no prayers of any kind would be allowed, no invocation, no moment of silence. Government is secular. End of story.
But that’s not where the courts are. The U.S. Supreme Court has been slouching toward this Gomorrah of beliefs in public settings for a couple of decades, chipping away at Jefferson’s church-state wall every chance it gets. So sticking to where the constitutional line is drawn, the courts have made this much clear: non-denominational invocations at government meetings are OK, and even denominational prayers are OK if the government presenting them does so in a neutral way, meaning that anyone from any belief system, including atheists and Wiccans, are given the chance to present their own invocation if they so choose. It’s not a bad compromise, though it lends itself to the absurd. Look at the beer-canned Festivus pole that goes up next to the nativity scene at the capitol in Tallahassee every Christmas.
That’s where the Brevard commission went wrong. It not only favored Christian ministers. It barred clerics or religious representatives from belief systems it disagreed with, including atheists. In other words the commission was playing god with God, a losing proposition when neither Pope nor mufti nor commissioner nor the cohabitating atheist and rabbi next door know more–or less–than anyone else does about God. Various organizations and individuals sued, the 11th Circuit of appeals ruled for the plaintiff, prayers ended, and now Brevard’s taxpayers have to pony up the damages. All of that could have been avoided had commissioners in Brevard stuck to business and rendered unto their agenda the things which–well, you know the rest.
The chairman of our own school board last August tried to pull a fast one when she invited a pastor to offer an invocation. There was no system in place. It was as arbitrary as it gets. Of course the chairman pretended to be as shocked as Captain Renault by the reaction, which was not favorable–not even by her fellow board members, who had not been informed of the pastor’s near-miraculous appearance at the beginning of the meeting. And when board members further discussed what process they could put in place, the board’s attorney outlined the law’s parameters, and one of the board members suggested, correctly, that maybe this wasn’t the time to turn board meetings into a circus. Bullet dodged.
From every indication West of Eden, God isn’t any less popular in these pastures.
Here’s where the courts have also been very clear, and where Bunnell and now the County Commission are breaking the law: an elected official speaking from the dais at a meeting may not himself, or herself, proffer an invocation, a prayer to God or a screed about atheism’s wonders. That would be placing government in the role of sponsor of a religious point of view, because on the dais, that’s what these officials are: they’re not citizens speaking for themselves but representatives of all the citizens of the jurisdiction they were elected from. Yes, all: heathens, commies, Muslims, Jews, Shintos, vegans and any one of the lost tribe of Democrats in Flagler included.
For several years now Bunnell commissioners have reveled in sticking it to the courts by taking turns at the beginning of meetings and proffering a prayer–not just any prayer, but a Christian prayer. The other day when it was Commissioner John Roger’s turn, he said “god” more times than even God could count in so short a span. But that’s how it is in Bunnell: they do things differently from time to time, and no one is about to sue because the place has fewer inhabitants than Flagler Palm Coast High School.
Not so at the county commission, which still represents about 110,000 people. So it was a surprise when, soon after taking over the chairmanship, the otherwise well-centered Dave Sullivan decided to insert the words “god” and “prayer” into his opening remarks about first responders and servicemen. When I asked him about it he said he wanted to recognize citizens, too, not just first responders, which I thought was a nice touch. But why the god thing?
“I believe that we have a supreme being that we base our moral values on,” he told me, “It’s the same reason it’s in the pledge of allegiance, same reason it’s in Congress, they use the word god, when the chaplain starts the session, that kind of thing.” (Never mind that the God insertion in the pledge is younger than Sullivan himself.)
But he’s missing the point. A chaplain or an invited cleric or non-cleric is not proffering the prayer. Sullivan is. And his belief that “we have a supreme being that we base our moral values on” is his belief, not that of every citizen of this county. He is speaking as a commissioner, and he is praying as one. However well-intentioned, It’s patronizing. It’s pandering. It’s illegal. And it’s an invitation to a costly, unnecessary lawsuit. I don’t think the county attorney, who’s entombed under enough county catastrophes as it is, can handle another detraction, especially not from God–or the ACLU.
It has nothing to do with freedom of religion and everything to do with favoring one particular kind of belief. Put it this way: imagine if Joe Mullins, Sullivan’s fellow-commissioner and resident mullah, suddenly fell off his jackass on the way to Damascus and decided to convert to Islam. Then, in a particularly fluvial commission hearing on Plantation Bay’s sewer plant, Sheikh Mullins announces that the chamber should take a moment of silence while he spreads his little carpet behind the dais, points it to Mecca, and puts in one of his five required prayers to Allah, capping it off with a Georgia-accented Allahu Akbar. I’m not sure that would go over very well, though there would be absolutely zero difference between that stunt and Sullivan’s. It’s a difference of posture, if that.
The only reason the scenario sounds absurd is because Christian prayers as presented today by our own politicians are presumed to be universal and unchallenged. Both are gravely mistaken presumptions. The prayers are most definitely not universal. Our county is full of Hindus, Muslims, Jews, atheists, agnostics, not to mention hell-encircled Catholics like me and blessed pagans like a good friend of mine. And the assumption that the prayers are unchallenged is a bet, and a reckless one at that. Just ask Brevard county commissioners.
And God bless.
Pierre Tristam is FlaglerLive’s editor. Reach him by email here or follow him @PierreTristam. A version of this commentary aired on WNZF.
Steve Robinson says
A column that should be required reading, especially for those who are somewhat selective about what parts of the Constitution they like.
Outsider says
As long as they read these quotes from the founding fathers:
https://www.lc.org/Uploads/files/pdf/flyer_founding_fathers_disagree_obama.pdf
Who said our country was not founded on Christian principles? Let there be no doubt it was.
Vincent Lyon says
That would be John Adams who said it, with the unanimous consent of the second Senate.
E Earls says
People might find the attached cite informative:
https://www.oyez.org/cases/2013/12-696
Clearly the Supreme Court does not feel sectarian prayer is out of bounds or illegal.
I note both the Court and Congress begin their sections with prayed.
Boxcar 749 says
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Say the pledge Twice at every public meeting. Just for good measure.
Maxi says
Under God was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954. It was just fine without God for the first 50 years of being recited. And it was written by a Batist minister and a socialist. Hahahaha
Merrill S Shapiro says
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It did not contain the words “Under God” as Bellamy, a Baptist, was an ardent supporter of the separation of church and state. Boxcar 749, we hope you will pray for the restoration of the Pledge of Allegiance to its original form!
B from PC says
I don’t think taking God out of our public lives is the right thing to do. How about signing up before the meeting and then being invited up to give a 20-30 second invocation of your own. Then maybe no one would have anything to complain about. This problem may go away and not have God taken away and not make money for someone who isn’t even at these meetings. How can anyone profit by suing municipality? Municipalities are short on funds and deserve better use of the taxpayer dime. Figure out a way to fix the problem where everyone has their equal time. The guys with the beer can poles will fade away.
Just a thought says
No one is saying take God out of your public life. Just abide by the rules regarding separation of church and government.
Merrill S Shapiro says
B from PC, who is suggesting that we take “God our of our public lives?” No one, absolutely no one! Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Roger Williams, Anne Hutchinson, John Adams are saying that we need to take God out of government. No one is suggesting taking God out of our public lives!
Dave says
I am, please remove all faith from the public view and especially children.
Our youth should not have to be subjected to these sick religous ways.
Kepp prayer at home or secluded in a building designated for such activities. Not out in oublic where others must endure your treacheries.
Dave says
Please please please keep the praying away from us decent folks and our children. If you want to partake in that kind of environment, do it inside a building designated for such activity and keep it out of the public eye.
We do not need nor should we be expected to be subjected this type of prayer and behaviour. We work too hard to not let our childs minds fall subject to the teachings of such.
Mike Cocchiola says
At the last meeting of the county commission, chairman of the board David Sullivan clearly broke the law by offering a verbal prayer to his Christian god during a supposed moment of silence. No government official may offer a prayer to a specific religion in a public setting. That violates the 1st amendment and 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution and subsequent case law reaffirming that the government may not establish a state religion. This is the latest attempt for elected government officials in Flagler County to force their religious beliefs on our citizens. Should they continue to attempt to establish their state religion, there will be legal consequences that will cost Flagler taxpayers the fines they will inevitably pay. There will also be social consequences as those citizens opposed to having a specific religion forced on them will not be silent.
I trust the perpetrators of this attempt to politicize religion – Chairman Sullivan and Commissioner Mullins – will see the issues they raise are not worth the cost or the anger.
Dennis says
The democrats will only be happy when they have driven God out of America and when they control everything. Then they can tear up the constitution.
Edith Campins says
Considering trump’s faithless behaviour and his complete disregard for the Constitution your comment is totally out of touch with reality.
Lorianne Lucienne says
The constitution you love to cite specifically calls for the separation of church and state – I would have imagined you’d embrace such. Unless its simply a piece of paper to you, not to be read or listened to but just used as a bludgeoning tool.
JimB says
Must be a trumpeter. Blame everyone but themselves. There is no place for religion in government. That carnival barking clown of a president doesn’t even know what religion is.
Sheila Zinkerman says
———- Forwarded message ———
From: Sheila Zinkerman
Date: Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 1:01 PM
Subject:
To: Sheila Zinkerman
Dennis: Democrats will not tear up the Constitution. It contains our most cherished First Amendment Establishment Clause that guarantees the Separation of Church and State. Judging from your comment, I believe you are confusing Religious Nationalism with Faithful Patriotism. Democrats can be faithful patriots as well as Republicans, Independents, No Party Affiliates NPA,) apolitical American citizens, and members of a military operation of the same name. We come from multi-faith, secular, and multi-ethnic backgrounds. And yes, there will be unpatriotic citizens in all backgrounds from time to time. We are human after all.
Religious Nationalists, on the other hand, focus on passing laws through their Project Blitz Agenda that malign the First Amendment to our Constitution that guarantees the Separation of Church and State. They infiltrate Government Policy with their laws under the banner of patriotism while selectively “crossing” out and ignoring the Constitution’s First Amendment’s Establishment Clause with their Christian Right Agenda.
https://www.au.org/tags/project-blitz.
Dennis: Democrats will not tear up the Constitution. Religious Nationalists have been tearing it up one law at a time and they will continue to do so until citizens who honor our First Amendment’s Separation of Church and State vote them out.
Edith Campins says
Those thinking that mixing government with religion is a good idea are obviously not students of history. I have religious beliefs which I wouldn’t dream of imposing on anyone else. What I find ironic is all the trump supporters that claim to be “Christians” and yet excuse his behavior. I have never found a religion that embraces serial cheating on your wives, consorting with prostitutes, cheating small businesses, name calling, “pussy grabbing” and constant lying as part of its dogma. Lastly, a momnet of silence should be just that, not a prayer by a commissioner according to his beliefs.
The Realist says
That religion would be the muslim one Edith. Read some of the Quran and you might be shocked.
There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
Allah provided a cover in the Qur’an for sex-on-demand. It is called “Temporary Marriage” or “Nikah Mut’a,” where a fixed-time arrangement and payment are both agreed upon in advance between the man and the woman. The “marriage” automatically dissolves once the duration expires. It is nothing but a form of prostitution legalized by Allah in the Qur’an.
This post could go on and on, but I think you should delve further into this religion if you really want to know what goes on in the minds of its faithful followers.
Pierre Tristam says
I see The Realist once again finds a way to take other people’s thoughtful observations as springboards to his alternative facts, especially when it comes to race or, in this case, Islam. As if you couldn’t cherry-pick your way through the bible to find justifications for kidnapping and rape, misogyny, eye-gouging, the severing of hands, the stoning of women (just about any woman that breathes the wrong way) and men (gays of course), genocide, slavery, the bashing of infants against walls (“Happy is the one,” no less, “who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks,” the exalted psalmist tells us) and at the genesis of it all the Abrahamic murder and incineration of one’s own child. Deuteronomy alone is the Illiad of sadism. This post could go on and on, Realist, but if you want to play that obnoxious game, which no Bible-thumper will ever win–Islam has a long way to go to catch up to Christianity’s killing fields–I think you should delve further into this religion if you really want to know what goes on in the minds of its faithful followers. Or you could stick to the topic at hand and not unnecessarily expose your magic-marker realism to Colonel Buendia’s fact-checkers.
Trailer Bob says
Sweet how you were able to bring Trump into this…very ignorant I must say. This story is about God, not Trump.
John R Brady says
Edith, Edith, Edith, what are you going to believe your lying eyes or what you are told. Of course this is fake news. The real news is the President is a God fearing family name who is honest, kind and above board in all his dealings.That is not hate he is spreading it is alternative love and decency. Can you see it now. He also has apostles here in Flagler County but he hasn’t reached 12 yet. One of his disciples , in a private conversation with me said he realized his rhetoric maybe a bit over the top and promised me to tone it down. So we shall see if he follows the false god or the teaching of Jesus Christ. Anyone who needs a refresher can see me I had a theology minor from a Jesuit college. It is all pretty simple as stated in Mathew 22: 36-40 Love thine neighbor as thyself.
;
Trailer Bob says
I agree with the author. A belief in a God is personal, unless you are a priest or such. A relationship with your personal God is just that…personal. No one is comfortable when someone is pushing their religious beliefs on them. God is a personal relationship, as it should be. And personally, I am still, at 65, trying to figure it all out.
Name (required) says
Wouldn’t that be hilarious if a commissioner said a Muslim prayer at a meeting… everyone’s heads would explode!! LOLOLOL
Well... says
The same people that don’t understand why this is an issue are the same people that cherry-pick verses out of the bible to support their racism, xenophobia, homophobia and the like while ignoring the rest making excuses why it’s okay to “fill in the blank” because that’s an old archaic “rule.” Uh huh. Sure–just more hypocrisy from those self-proclaimed righteous individuals that want what they want for them, but no one else deserves the same.
bobg says
A well written piece.
bob says
The following is an actual Joe Mullins weird and rather snide email to me after I pointed out to him the illegality of Christian prayers in Commissioner meetings and the related court rulings the Commission should tune into. He doesn’t have clue… and he actually expects us to believe he chats regularly with Donald? Very scary guy!
“I appreciate your opinion and not sure how you base that comment. I can assure you I spoke with the White House today and the President will be addressing this issue soon With the incredible judges he has put in place.
We all have our opinions and are certainly entitled to them.
God Bless you.”
William Moya says
From the beginning, let’s call it Mesopotamia, State and Government (not synonyms) have struggle to give their existence, legitimacy,to do so they created some divine entity to accomplish that goal. In doing so, they also give man immortality, i.e. you don’t cease to exist you go to a parallel universe, where all earthly struggles will be gone .
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
Friedrich Nietzsche
Keep your god at home out of the public arena, politics.
snapperhead says
I wanted to believe in the sky wizard if the effort was worth the payoff but no one can answer my questions. This “heaven” place…what’s it like? How’s the climate? What’s the housing arrangements? Condo’s, apartments, single family, dormitories???? And do I have to work for eternity? What’s the cuisine like? Can I be kicked out for bad behavior? So many questions….can a sky wizard believer please answer so I can get in line before my day of judgement. If declined who do I appeal the sky wizard’s decision to?
NPA Pushed to All Blue says
The same people who use the Constitution to hold onto their guns ignore it to try to force us to listen to their prayers.
They want to be free to practice their Christian religion by praying at government meetings and then say that Muslims should not be allowed to exist in our country because they want to impose their beliefs on everybody.
“America is a nation of laws” they say to justify cruelty to people who wish to enter this country from the southern border (whether seeking asylum legally or sneaking in), yet it is okay for them to break a law that says that prayers are forbidden at government meetings.
“Saving babies” is so important to them when speaking about abortion, but actual already formed humans do not get viewed with the same compassion, especially if they are on any sort of public assistance.
I just can’t anymore with these people. Their hypocrisy no longer astounds me because, frankly, I expect it now.
Larry Bell says
Politicians from Washington to Flagler county are proselytizing Christianity and using it as a hypocritical cover for greed and power.
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Nones or Americans not affiliated with any religion is around 26% and growing. This group is an important voting block mostly unrecognized by small minded politicians at their own peril.
Keith Sullivan says
After reading your column it amazes me about the wholesale ignorance concerning the Constitution of the United States and the founding of the United States of America you people should really go back and verse yourselves in the founding of the United States of America and the Constitution. Also the volumes that have been written by the founding fathers on what this country was supposed to be and where they had the vision of it to go. As it was surprised many of you you like to quote Thomas Jefferson by the separation of wall between church and state as to just what he was talking about. Just as a thought for you people who are wholesale ignorant about the founding of this country Thomas Jefferson while he was the president of the United States attended church services in the United States capitol
Boxcar749 says
Question: Are the progressive/liberals who are rallying for separation of church and state, the same progressive/liberals rallying for a quasi-homeless shelter run by a Methodist church in bunnell?
While I’ve never claimed to be a devout Christian, religion is one thing in life I’d hate to be wrong about.
Nunyabizness says
The second amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. It appears so many of the people posting here quit reading at the comma. There is a difference between allowing prayer and requiring prayer. To require it would be a direct violation of the establishment clause. To prohibit prayer would be a violation of both the second part of the establishment clause in the second amendment as well as restricting freedom of speech. That being said, advocates for the prayer need to understand that under these amendments ALL religions would be free to be represented at these meetings. Yes, even the ones diametrically opposed to your own professed religion. It’s a double-edged sword. If you allow it for one, you have to allow it for all. Is prayer at a school board meeting or city council meeting the proverbial hill you’re willing to die on?
Christopher T Lemke says
God will always prevail. You know that. That is why Trump will be your next President. Same reason he was elected in 2016, despite all odds. Think about it.