Ray Stevens and Andrew Warner, the two candidates in the runoff for the District 3 seat of the Palm Coast City Council, faced off on WNZF’s Free For All Fridays this morning in a more focused and spirited discussion than candidates typically do at soporific and rarely challenging forums. The two candidates tangled for 65 minutes over development, their past, their associations, the reason they’re running, and why they’d be a better councilman than the other guy.
Stevens often challenged, attacked and baited Werner while Werner, who–ironically for a school psychologist–continues to have trouble expressing himself clearly and directly, parried, demurred and appealed to a higher road while managing to slip in a few sallies of his own against Stevens. “He’s focused his entire campaign on basically just attacking me,” Werner said. “I focus my campaign on on getting to know people, getting out there in the community, attending events, and doing, doing what I can to get to know what’s important to the city.”
A picture host David Ayres took of the two candidates–the picture at the top of this article–told the story: Werner projected the conventionally cheery demeanor of a candidate more eager to please than explain as long as he gets to play on the team. Stevens was coated in almost spiteful jade–his career in policing was in the shadow of one of the nation’s most notorious prisons: Ossining, N.Y.–and ready to challenge for the sake of challenging, his crustiness sometimes getting the better of him to the point of obscuring his shoot-from-the-hip pragmatism.
Other than Werner’s briefer residency of two years in Palm Coast compared to Stevens’s 20 years–a difference that lends itself more to prejudice than reason in a city where almost everyone is a transplant–Stevens never made clear why he has such animus for Werner, or why he felt compelled to conduct what he called “opposition research” on Werner. Werner described it as “doing an investigation on me, everything in my life, and my family, interrogating people that have donated to me.”
Stevens went as far as questioning the veracity of Werner’s claim that he spends time in Flagler County schools. “Nobody knows him,” Stevens said, “at least nobody that this person who was on the inside made the inquiries and nobody knows.” Stevens, of course, did not say who “this person who was on the inside” was, making his accusation close to scurrilous when referring to an organization with 1,600 employees, not counting contractors, most of whom will not know each other, the less so if the contractor is working remotely.
Werner handled the accusation sardonically: “Sometimes at school, they do take your kid to school with you, and they can see what you do during the day,” he said. “I would propose maybe take a Mr. Ray Stevens with me to school one day, and he can come and follow me around. And just because his friends don’t know who I am, I mean, what he’s accusing me of is lying. So Mr. Ray Stevens, I don’t know if they let you in the door, but you’re welcome to come to school with me in the morning on Monday if you want to and see what I do be a fun exercise for both of us.”
Werner has in fact been remarkably cagey about his employment, refusing, after repeated questions in his FlaglerLive interview, to say who he worked for, never saying so in forums, and not even answering the Observer’s question about how long he’s lived in Palm Coast. Today he was pressed on that question. (The show was co-hosted by Palm Coast Observer owner Brian McMillan, while McMillan and Ayers fielded questions from FlaglerLive’s Pierre Tristam and WNZF’s Rich Carroll.) Werner again answered generally: “I worked in school in Hawaii, and I worked in a school in the Midwest, but when I came here, initially I was going to work in the Flagler County schools, but I ended up taking a remote position. So I work through a contract company that I provide services to schools, predominantly in the Midwest. I also do some contracting work here in Flagler County.”
Ayers had to ask him to specify who those companies are. Only then Werner answered: “Okay. So there’s a group called the Stepping Stones Group, and they they hire people all over,” he said, dropping in a snide aside against Stevens for having investigated all that. “I’ll go ahead and say that my position is, you know, my paycheck is paid by–it’s called the Stepping Stones Group. And I think the corporate office is based out of somewhere out in East, I think in Massachusetts. But what they do is they contract people all over the country. My particular position is in a very shortage across the United States, so that’s why they provide virtual services, and that’s what I do.” He said he evaluates students through various types of testing, including IQ tests “to see if they qualify for certain services that may help support them in schools.”
Stevens disputed Werner’s claim that he’s “attacked him personally in any way.” He said he’s analyzed Werner’s campaign donations, which he said “is not an attack. It’s information that the voters should have.” He then sought to make a distinction between one type of campaign donation and another, as if there were differences. To Stevens, there are. The contributions to Werner are targeted with a single aim in mind, he said: to buy his votes in favor of the so-called westward expansion.
More disturbingly: Stevens did not deny contacting–and apparently pressuring–a couple of donors to the Werner campaign. Steens said he’s known the woman for 14 years and has had numerous email exchanges with her. He did not explain why he felt compelled to do so. Here’s that particular exchange between the two candidates:
That was the exchange that led to Stevens’s tirade against Werner’s PAC support.
“These are PACs, real estate and development PACs that are targeting and looking to buy three seats on the city council,” Stevens said, referring to political action committees, “and it’s all revolving around the so called western expansion, patriotic name, reminiscent of the in 1845 of manifest destiny. This is not manifest destiny. This is to turn multi millionaires into billionaires, and they need three seats, and he’s one of them, and that’s why. And if you look up who’s behind the PACs, and if you read the article online by AskFlagler, he did the research perspective.” He added: “This is not because they believe in his philosophy and what a great guy he is. They expect something. And you don’t donate $35,000 in cash and mailings to somebody and not expect something in return. Period.”
As at the Tiger Bay forum on Sept. 25, Werner did not challenge Stevens’s claims, though they’re not quite accurate. Stevens said his figures were based on Werner’s publicly available campaign finance documents. So far, Werner has taken in just over $11,000. But Stevens is right: the bulk of it is from development-focused political action committees, with few individual donations.
Werner is interested in growth’s effects on the city’s infrastructure. “On the second day that we have the city council meeting that I get in,” he said, “I would like to do to ask the rest of the council if they’d be interested in doing a big evaluation of our infrastructure, finding out where the big needs are, how many years out we are from certain things, of needing major repairs, so that way we can prioritize and plan.”
Of course, the city administration has done that, and has presented those plans. It has done it with roads. It has done it with utilities. It has done it with parks. It has done it with its own public works needs, among other analyses. At almost every turn, the council has either discounted the analyses, challenged the priorities, or cut taxes in such a way that it’s hampered the administration from keeping up with infrastructure demands. At next week’s workshop, the council will again face major infrastructure choices, including a significant step toward expansion of the city’s wastewater capacity, which is critically needed–and now mandated by the Department of Environmental Protection.
Werner’s answer may have been intended to show a candidate ready to get to work. Instead, it showed a candidate out of touch with the council’s very recent history, which Werner does not appear ready to change: while Stevens said that raising taxes may in some cases be necessary, Werner continues to insist that that will not be the case.
Toward the end of the show Stevens was asked about his continuing association with Dennis McDonald, the background GOP operative who rose to prominence running for local elections he’s never won, filing frivolous and maliciously false ethics complaints against local officials, getting declared in contempt by the Attorney General over unpaid fines, and running up those fines, with interest, past the $100,000 mark (they are still owed). In this election, McDonald worked to close at least one of the two Republican primaries for the County Commission by fielding a write-in candidate with no intention of running an actual campaign. Stevens and McDonald were fellow-members of the Ronald Reagan Republican Assemblies a decade ago (it disbanded in 2016), the far-right group that did likewise in 2012 races before some of its members morphed into what became a local Trump club.
“I know Dennis McDonald for 15 years. I haven’t been to his house for dinner, and he hasn’t been to my house for dinner. Are we friendly? Yeah, we’ll have lunch sometimes,” Stevens said. “Do I listen to what he has to say? Yeah, well, just because I become elected, or once elected to the City Council, I have to terminate some friendly relationships, I think that’s unfair. I’m not anybody’s messenger. I can’t be bought. I’m not for sale. And to sum it up, no, I will not terminate a friendly relationship.”
Hear the full show below.
Samuel says
No to any Republican candidate, had enough of the Trumps lies and corruption.
Willy Boy says
Good ole Ray! This guy is a bad penny and should not be elected to any government position. He is a true muckraker with questionable morals. This wanna-be sheriff has been soundly defeated in past elections at the county level. Let’s send him back to Ossining, N.Y.! Any friend of Dennis McDonald is not a friend of mine.
Joe D says
Fortunately I own my retirement home in Flagler Beach, so the Palm Coast City Council election doesn’t TECHNICALLY affect me. But as we’ve all learned in the past, the situations in one of our County jurisdictions DOES affect life in other jurisdictions. Look at the Beach conditions, or the MASSIVE proposed Westward Expansion. Not to mention waste water and storm water management, and road infrastructure.
Unless you are going to drive in and out of Flagler Beach only using A1A, overcrowded County road systems go through ALL of our local jurisdictions. In one week I found myself having to drive into Palm Coast 7 times!
I know the candidates we have are choices Palm Coast must make, but are these candidates the BEST that Palm Coast has to offer? The City Council makes financial and life altering decisions every day, not only for now, but can set policies affecting ALL our Communities for years to come. I would like to think that our choices of candidates would be the CREAM of the CROP.
Unfortunately given the general negative and severely polarized political climate, I can see why many more qualified applicants don’t want the subject themselves (and their families and friends) to almost 24/7 exposure of the most private areas of their lives…I know I wouldn’t want to deal with it, I’m sure many other interested citizens wouldn’t want to deal with the current political climate either, even if they feel they have something to offer in the way of COMMUNITY SERVICE.
Still I’m hoping for the best…as long as there is SIGNIFICANT voter turnout.
Josh Fabean says
To me one of the more important parts of the interview was left out of this summary. Ray Stevens and defended the fact that he is harassing people who donate to Andrew Werner. Andrew mentioned Ray has contacted his donors, and Ray defended it by saying he emailed a widow and he doesn’t know why she felt intimidated and felt the need to contact a lawyer over it.
Jim says
Is it too late for a third candidate?
I like living here in Palm Coast. I like the weather, being close to the beach, local restaurants, my neighbors (most of them…) and many other things.
However, clearly there is either something in the water, or how hot and humid it can get here, or something else unidentified that causes the craziest of our citizenship to run for public office. Here we have another Trump Republican ex-cop or a guy who is all for continued expansion all the way to Daytona Beach as our candidates and can’t articulate what he does for a living (is he ashamed?).
I’d rather just see the seat remain vacant.
Backslapping Commission says
WERNER: THE MAN DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH, METHINKS:
Andrew Werner who is running for District 3 City Council seat
should be totally transparent about his former employment and
the states he lived in from the beginning of his campaign for
office. In his recent radio podcast with candidate Ray Stevens,
Werner was evasive and opaque and stated that he was under
attack. As a school psychologist, “he seemed to have difficulty
expressing himself clearly and directly.” In the postcast, he seemed
extremely concerned with evaluating the city’s infrastructure needs
which was already evaluated and which he was obviously unaware
of. From his responses Werner sounds like a man who has a lot to
hide. Otherwise why would he be reluctant to answer basic questions
about personal nformation that a candidate should be required to
submit. His interest in improving infrastructure seems like a cover
to hide his real plans to increase the building of homes by a candidate
who is heavily backed by realtor and developer interest. We believe that
Werner revealed alot about himself by what he REFUSED to reveal.
And it’s not that good for the future of the Palm Coast Community.
FlaglerLive says
You are correct. That segment should not have been left out. The article has been updated with that segment, including an audio clip of the exchange. Thank you for pointing it out.
Nathan says
Don’t your have an 83 year old widow to get revenge on, Ray/Dennis?
Nathan says
I think there’s a bit of important information left out where Andrew provides some clarification on how the PAC money came into being. A lot of people have been wondering how he got so much money as an unknown but that interchange is excluded from this article.
Backslapping Commission says
Nathan: I don’t know why you put your negative
comment below my comment as this is not Ray/Dennis
making my comment, Your conjecture concerning the
comment is incorrect and made by a resident of Palm Coast,
You cannot silence my 1st amendment right to critcize
any individual running for office, RESPECT OTHER
PEOPLE’S OPPOSING POSITIONS! We the people
are sick and tired of people like YOU gaslighting and
twisting with your totalitarian state of minds of which
people like you think we have to live by! So don’t think you
know who we are with your one liners, we know more
about who you are.
Backslapping Commission says
Mr. whoever you are. A word of caution, accusing someone of commingling a crime without any evidence exposes you to a civil action taken against you. I have spoken with Mr. Stevens and he informs me that he has proof that the allegations are lies. He informed not to be concerned about a political hack that is grasping at straws in hopes of disparaging him. If the women you mention is who Mr. Stevens believes it is, they have the same attorney, so be careful.
Fernando Melendez says
My vote goes to Stevens as I really have a problem with carpetbaggers. Say all you want to say but he’s lived here for 20 years and that’s all I need to know. Werner is barely two years in Palm Coast, if it were at least 5 and something to show for then maybe. Say NO to all CARPETBAGGERS!!
Celia Pugliese says
Ray Stevens is the one funding his own campaign and his loyalty will be first to us residents and no to special Pacs, developers and other interest. I have known Ray for many years and he is affected by the same problems we have and will lobby to resolve them. I believe the only good old boy posting against him here is you Willy Boy. No bootleggers just arrivals in Palm Coast in our council that know nothing except for chicken coops on every residential Palm Coast lot and not real credentials background!
palmcoaster says
Maybe the 83 year old widow that exchanged emails for years with Mr, Stevens since he run for sheriff then and documented, contacted (if so as is typical excuse often, show me the papers) an attorney over the fact that maybe she broke elections laws while donating?
Interesting claim says
Who are you going to vote for then????
I guess you’re not going to vote.
Lets get the facts and forget mudslinging says
FACTS:
STATE OF FLORIDA ADMINISTRATIVE RULES . . . (DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION REGARDING CERTIFICATION AS A SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST) . . . which is what Andrew Werner claims to be:
By the way, if Werner doesn’t meet any of the following criteria, and can’t get certified as a school psychologist in the State of Florida, what’s he doing working in Flagler County Schools, and what is he actually doing while he’s supposedly working in Flagler County Schools? Has his online employer “Stepping Stones” verified his credentials.
I thought he’d worked as a “physical therapist” in another lifetime in another state.
No one can pin this man, Werner, down as to who he actually is and what he actually does for a living. Many, many different variations of his story yet he has yet to produce any concrete evidence in the way of present or past credentials and licensing.
Unless Werner can PROVE he meets the following criteria for becoming a certified school psychologist in the State of Florida, he’s basically lying about his background. Forget about all the other mudslinging.
6A-4.0311
Specialization Requirements for Certification in School Psychologist (Grades PK-12)–Specialty Class
(1) Plan One. A doctorate degree with a specialization in school psychology which includes a twelve-hundred (1200-hour), supervised internship with at least six-hundred (600) hours completed in an elementary or secondary school setting; or
(2) Plan Two. A degree from a specialist-level program of study (e.g., EdS, PsyS, CAGS, Master’s) from a National Association of School Psychologists (NASP) or American Psychological Association (APA) accredited or approved graduate training program in school psychology that includes the following:
(a) A minimum of sixty (60) semester hours of graduate credit in school psychology;
(b) Completion of a minimum of three (3) semester hours of supervised and sequenced practical experiences prior to the internship in paragraph (2)(c); and,
(c) Completion of a twelve-hundred (1200) hour, supervised internship with at least six-hundred (600) hours completed in an elementary or secondary school setting. No more than six (6) hours of internship credit may be applied to the sixty (60) semester hour requirement in paragraph (2)(a); or
(3) Plan Three. A valid credential as a Nationally Certified School Psychologist issued by the National Association of School Psychologists (NASP); or
(4) Plan Four. A doctorate degree or a degree from a specialist-level program of study in clinical psychology or counseling psychology with a non-degree respecialization in school psychology. Respecialization must include:
(a) Completion of an individualized plan of study and supervised field experiences in a NASP-approved graduate preparation program in Florida that grants recognition for previously completed, relevant coursework and field experiences , and identifies additional graduate courses and supervised experiences consistent with the NASP Graduate Preparation Standards. A minimum of fifteen (15) credits must be completed in the school psychology training program that documents eligibility for non-degree certification.
(b) Completion of a twelve-hundred (1200) hour, supervised internship with six-hundred (600) hours of a supervised school psychology internship completed in an elementary or secondary school setting. Supervised internships previously completed as part of the health services psychology graduate training program may meet up to six-hundred (600) hours of the school psychology internship requirement.
(c) Documentation from the school psychology graduate training program that the candidate demonstrates the competencies of a professional school psychologist across the NASP Domains of Professional Practice and meets the criteria for non-degree certification as a school psychologist.
Rulemaking Authority 1001.02, 1012.55, 1012.56 FS. Law Implemented 1012.54, 1012.55, 1012.56 FS. History–New 7-1-92, Amended 10-27-20.
Just an opinion says
Ray Stevens has shown during this campaign, that his time has passed.
He has went around telling people he’s going to “punch out” Werner.
He has cussed out volunteers at events.
Meanwhile, he falls asleep at City Council meetings sitting in his chair.
Stevens would be a disaster.
Voting for Ray Stevens says
After listening intently to the whole Free for All Friday radio show yesterday (Friday October 5, 2024), and listening to Andrew Werner’s word salad answers as well as his defensiveness regarding his educational background, his current and previous employment, if he’s actually working in Flagler Schools and in what capacity, I got the feeling that he wasn’t able to shed any light on who he is or what he actually does.
Plus, he’s a carpetbagger and has only lived here 2 years. Hell, he barely knows how to get from point A to point B via back roads in this town.
I’m voting for Ray Stevens. I’m very clear on that.
The people backing Andrew Werner (once again, Flagler Republican Executive Committee) and others in this town will be posting negative comments about Ray Stevens.
Again, I AM VOTING FOR RAY STEVENS.
Backslapping Commission says
It’s easy to make canards and unsubstantiated statements
about somebody especially in writing. It’s harder to say
these things to a persons face because a feckless NINCOMPOOP
like you would fold like a cheap camera.
Just my educated opinion.
Mike says
Your comment alone will make me vote for whomever is running against him!
KKelly says
It’s an untrue and ridiculous statement. Have a nice day.
Celia Pugliese says
Ridiculous lies from your undisclosed ID here. I been at the same events candidate Ray Stevens attended and he never cusses or is uncivil with anyone to the contrary has been cordial and ethical. His credentials schooling and experience at work. We have many here punching from the shadows and supporting dark money for candidates and inventing lies.
Willy Boy says
Is this the pot calling the kettle black? Excuse me but aren’t you a carpetbagger? Seems that you moved her from New York in 2017 or 18. If memory serves me correct, I believe you ran for office a few times and was soundly defeated!
Celia Pugliese says
Hey Willy Boy are you with the Klan? What is your problem with people moving here from NY, NJ or anywhere up north? A carpetbagger per your description is not a just arrival? Did you forget that ITT came from NY to develop the largest ever in USA community then, Palm Coast? Because good candidates get “soundly” or for few votes defeated by dark money supported ones or the political clicks brainwashing the voters, is why we are in the condition we are because what Palm Coast have become today! We are working hard to get the candidates seated that will work for us the residents first! Ray Stevens is what we need. The toxic pots of coward like you that hides behind and alias should not count! Typical activities in this area of those trying to defeat our good candidates working from the shadows while favoring dark monies supported one’s.
Celia Pugliese says
Hey Willy Boy are you with the Klan? What is your problem with people moving here from NY, NJ or anywhere up north? A carpetbagger per your description is not a just arrival? Did you forget that ITT came from NY to develop the largest ever in USA community then, Palm Coast? Because good candidates get “soundly” or for few votes defeated by dark money supported ones or the political clicks brainwashing the voters, is why we are in the condition we are because what Palm Coast have become today! We are working hard to get the candidates seated that will work for us the residents first! Ray Stevens is what we need. The toxic pots of coward like you that hides behind and alias should not count! Typical activities in this area of those trying to defeat our good candidates working from the shadows while favoring dark monies supported one’s.
Celia Pugliese says
In the City of Palm Coast elections this time we better go across party lines and vote the right candidates like Ray Stevens, Jeffery Seib, Mike Norris and in the state Adam Morley a friend and great Floridian a family man that will work for us while preserving our pristine coastal region and will lobby to bring Tallahassee taxpayers funds here. No more carpetbaggers.
No for nothing our city seats are non partisan. Also to those trying the mudding of Dennis McDonald while hiding under an alias I can tell that you do it, as you really work for special interest and those that hear your lies and believe you at the ballot box, are who keeps us here in the status quo of outdated infrastructure in need of expanding and repair before they keep using the utility funds as cash cow to benefit developers something that Dennis knows well in every detail. If Dennis would have been elected to county or city seats we will not be having this mess of ill growth without the proper infrastructure water, sewer, storm water in place and the current lack of sufficient roads widen and with turn lanes! We would not have had to spend in lawyers to keep the city IT’s trying to install 150′ tall cell towers 150 feet from our homes and our yards and homes will not be flooding due to higher built infill lots! We would not have a Wawa approved in Florida Park Drive that already has over 8,000 speeding vehicles a day compromising the safety, health and home values of the 1.9 miles road front residents. City would not have ever approved the expansion of so many more restaurants and stores in the original Island Walk shopping center given the local lawyer original owner greedy interest, by paving over for more maze parking without sufficient sewer and storm water service, that is the reason why now their stinky poop overflows with every rain and smells in the insufficient pond in Florida Park Drive and causes flood in that corner of Palm Coast Parkway and also in the corner of Clubhouse drive. We are driving thru poo in those two corners of the PC Parkway…no matter how many times I called the DEP. If Dennis was in the city seat we would not have ever lost our beautiful old Oaks canopy in Palm Coast Parkway and inside Island Walk renovation as he even spend in lawyers fighting for it without success due to insufficient support of the residents. If Dennis would have been in the city seat they would not have continued putting the cart before the horse in all these city council and even county approvals to benefit developers on our backs! So for those that don’t know better start paying attention at what Dennis says at the city council 3 minutes other than paying attention to ill intended alias hidden scumbags here. Dennis may not be perfect but as a retired developer from up north all his life, he sure knows where our elected and administrators fail us and how to prevent it. I am done defending what I have known since 1991 that I move here. Stop bad mouthing the residents that work hard for us and concentrate in the ill intended one’s instead.
Backslapping Commission says
CHICKENGATE: or perhaps we should rally for chicken coups since
those people have “property rights” while the flooded victims homes and
property have none. Get your damn priorities straight!
Celia Pugliese says
Hide under “Just and opinion” as your lies are obvious here about Ray Stevens a composed, cordial and civil candidate then of course you do not disclose your ID, coward. I never heard and as he never does cuss or threats anyone and also he does not violate his opponent FB account to request his friends to join it for God knows what purpose. Yes do away with the just fraudulent opening in Fb of a “Ray Stevens Jr” as is not Ray Stevens but a fraud and was reported to FB already. Unfortunately one candidate fell in the trap already accepting the friend request that I received as well. Dirty tricks now? Then imagine if elected to office. So lets vote for Ray Stevens and Jeffery Seib.