Calling the proposal an effort to “remove the government permission slip,” House Speaker Paul Renner on Monday announced legislation that would allow people to carry concealed weapons without licenses or currently-required gun-safety classes.
6Renner, R-Palm Coast, was flanked by Republican lawmakers and county sheriffs who backed the 63-page proposal, which would create what supporters call “constitutional carry.”
“Central to the idea of freedom is the right that we can defend ourselves against physical attack, as well as defend those that we love. The Constitution did not give us those rights, the creator gave us those rights. But it does put it down on paper in the Second Amendment. And the courts have interpreted that to mean an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense,” Renner said.
Under current law, people who want to carry concealed weapons need to apply to the state for a license and go through a process that includes passing criminal background checks. More than 2.8 million people had concealed weapons licenses as of Dec. 31, according to the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, which administers the program. In Flagler County, 19,485 people–more than a fifth of the adult population–had concealed carry permits.
Current law also requires that those acquiring a permit complete a gun-safety class. That requirement would be removed.
Kirk Chong, who manages Larry’s Guns and Ammo in Bunnell and teaches gun-safety classes several times a mont to new permit holders, says he understands where the permitless-carry initiative is coming from: ““I don’t need permission to purchase my gun, and everybody has free will, so if you want to get training, the training is there, if you don’t want to get training, that’s up to you,” Chong says. But he says he’ll have to wait and see whether the bill makes it through, though he expects it would have an impact on the number of people who take his classes (15 did so last Saturday).
“I tell people in my class all the time: if you don’t know what you’re doing, who’s the person most likely you’re going to shoot? It’s you,” Chong said. He recommends training of some kind for all new gun owners, even if it means going online to watch videos. And he cautions: even those who think they know the law will end up having to deal with the justice system once they use lethal force in self-defense. “With or without the bill you’ve got to be confident in your skills,” he said. “If you’re not confident, then you shouldn’t even be getting a gun.”
But classes help individuals determine their level of confidence, and with that requirement gone, it would be one less check on potentially lethal overconfidence. In 2021, 20 Floridians died as a result of accidental shootings, according to the Florida Department of Health, and 1,924 died of suicide by gunshot, almost twice the number of those who died in a homicide by gunshot.
Lawmakers will consider the proposal (HB 543) during the legislative session that will start March 7. Under the bill, a person would need to “carry valid identification at all times when he or she is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or concealed firearm and must display such identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.”
Also, current prohibitions on carrying guns at places such as schools and athletic events would continue to apply.
People who are not Florida residents could carry concealed firearms if they are 21 or older, according to the proposal.
Rep. Chuck Brannan, R-Macclenny, and Rep. Bobby Payne, R-Palatka, are sponsoring the House measure. A Senate version, which had not been posted online as of early Monday afternoon, is expected to be sponsored by Sen. Jay Collins, R-Tampa.
A House news release included a statement from Senate President Kathleen Passidomo, R-Naples, supporting the proposal. Also, Gov. Ron DeSantis has expressed support for the idea in the past.
“This bill is a big step to help the average law-abiding citizen to keep from having to go through the hoops of getting a permit from the government to carry their weapons. It is also not going to change who can and cannot carry a gun — people who are prohibited now will still be prohibited,” Brannan said.
But Democrats quickly criticized the proposal and pointed to issues such as the elimination of the training requirement that is part of obtaining concealed weapons licenses.
“This is not constitutional carry, this is untrained carry. We have to be very clear and specific as to what the legislation actually does, and that is to remove the training requirement, and you will no longer have the check if you have something disqualifying you in your criminal record,” Rep. Christine Hunschofsky, a Democrat who was mayor of Parkland at the time of the 2018 Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School mass shooting, told reporters Monday.
The group Prevent Gun Violence Florida vowed to fight against the legislation and cited “a clear link between lax gun laws and increased gun violence.”
“In an era of increased mass shootings and rising gun crime, it is outlandish that our Legislature is being asked to loosen gun restrictions rather than strengthen them,” the group said in a prepared statement.
The House news release said the proposal “does not affect laws relating to the purchase of a firearm and will not allow anyone prohibited from possessing a firearm to carry concealed.” Renner said it is “important but not required” for gun owners to take courses on things such as firearm safety.
Hernando County Sheriff Al Nienhuis, who is president of the Florida Sheriffs Association, and gun-rights groups touted the bill.
“We see incidents everyday where law-abiding citizens that are armed with the ability to protect themselves interrupt active shooters, interrupt armed robberies, are able to protect themselves in all sorts of different scenarios,” Nienhuis said during the news conference at the Capitol.
Art Thomm, Florida state director for the National Rifle Association, said in a prepared statement that the gun-rights group “looks forward to welcoming Florida into the fold of freedom that constitutional carry provides.” Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are blue states that allow carrying a weapon without a permit. The rest of the states, with Arizona’s and Georgia’s purple exception, have been red states. Florida, Louisiana, South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia are the southern states without the allowance.
“Half of the country currently recognizes the fundamental right of law-abiding gun owners to carry a firearm for self-defense as enshrined in our Constitution,” Thomm said.
Meanwhile, Renner said that the House will introduce additional legislation in the coming weeks to “go after gun crime” such as stealing firearms out of cars and using guns in gang violence.
Renner also took jabs at local officials for “creating an unsafe environment.”
“We don’t operate in a vacuum. What’s happening in our society right now is ‘defund the police 2.0,’ with these cities and counties and woke prosecutors that are advocating for no bail on third-degree felonies. So, I don’t think there’s ever been a time in my history here on earth that we’ve needed the right to bear arms for individuals more than we do now,” Renner, who was born in 1967, said.
Florida’s crime rate is at or near a 50-year low, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
–FlaglerLive and News Service of Florida
Rick G says
Insanity continues to reign in this state. Banning books, creating a more difficult environment in which to advance critical thinking and now allowing weapons everywhere. Yeah, Florida the free state… what a frigging joke. More like welcome to the home of fascist and head up your ass thinking.
Doug Brown says
Absolutely a bad idea. Carrying a firearm of any type without proper instruction is a recipe for disaster. I like and support DeSsntis, but this is a very bad idea.
S. Peters says
THIS IS COMPLETE MADNESS!!!!
G A says
The republicans never fail to amaze me. I could swear there must be a contest amongst them to see who can be the biggest moron. Sadly, I don’t see this changing any time soon.
Michael Cocchiola says
This is pure insanity. Per the CDC, suicides and homicides by guns have been on the increase for years. Florida is already #22 of the 50 states in gun deaths,
Are we going for #1?
Jim says
I am a gun owner and I have a concealed carry permit. I am a believer in the 2nd amendment.
But where I can agree with this kind of “law” ends right there. You can’t drive a car without a driving permit (well, you can but if you get caught, there are consequences). Everyone has the right to drive a car (at 16) and (I think) everyone agrees you need a permit to do so.
So I cannot understand why anyone would think it’s okay to carry a gun without a permit. Don’t we want to feel that a person carrying a concealed weapon has been vetted by the police? Have we reached the point where we are okay with guns being carried by people with mental issues or serious run-ins with police? This is not a “freedom” issue. It’s a public safety issue. I know that any idiot can carry a gun without a permit but when there is a law that prohibits that, it gives society a legal method to deal with those people if/when they get caught doing it. Apparently we’ve reached a point where we are willing to sacrifice community safety and claim we’re enhancing freedom. This is just incredible.
The people pushing this are ignoring the multiple incidents where people have been shot by people that shouldn’t have guns.
There is something seriously wrong with politicians who live in a state where multiple incidents of mass shootings have and continue to occur but can stand up and claim allowing anybody and everybody to carry concealed is the right move for society.
This bill will not make Florida better but it will make Floridians better armed. And it’s got absolutely nothing to do with “defunding police” or woke. Name one police agency in this state that’s getting it’s budget cut.
Joan says
100% agree. Thank you for speaking out as a responsible, law abiding citizen. While I choose not to carry a weapon, I respect the right of those who choose to do so as long as they are willing to be trained, background checked, and are willing to do so lawfully. This has become madness with politicians saying that people need more and easier access to weapons when we already have multiple mass shootings across this nation each week. This policy has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with elections and greed. There is no common sense involved when nearly 20% of the population carrying weapons isn’t enough.
DMFinFlorida says
@ Jim
I completely agree with your statement, as well as that of “Joan says.” Thank you for being a responsible citizen and speaking out against this absolutely insane proposal. I choose not to own or carry, but many family and friends do, and do so with the utmost of care and responsibility so I will respect that.
If you think violence in the schools is a problem now, go ahead and implement this ridiculous policy but make sure plenty of ambulances (or hearses) are on standby.
Paula says
Not even a safety class required? Wow.
Let’s do away with licenses for cars as well.
They are both machines capable of injuring/killing someone.
Truth be told says
Thousands have been driving around Florida with NO INSURANCE and NO DRIVERS LICENSE. That’s why YOU pay for NO FAULT INSURANCE on your premium.
And Thousands have been concealed carrying firearms for years in Florida without a Permit. You better hope to Hell you have a concealed carry person next to you when Juan and Huleo jump your ass in the packing section of Walmart.
Jp says
Your racism shines through despite your poor attempt at spelling. Amazing.
Pat says
Kirk Chong: “I tell people in my class all the time: if you don’t know what you’re doing, who’s the person most likely you’re going to shoot? It’s you,”
As a former military firearms instructor and current concealed carry permit holder, all I can say is “He’s right”
Donald J Trump says
40 other states have receptacle agreements with Florida that would nolonger be valid. LEO’s would have to assume everyone is armed and the state will lose millions in license fees, required training goes out the window. This will turn Florida into the new wild west. Maybe there will be benefits if it allows more people to protect themselves against corrupt politicians and other government officals.
DMFinFlorida says
@ Donald … that would be “reciprocal.” Although Florida does seem to be the receptacle of a lot of the dregs of society and crooked politicians.
marlee says
If you are against this, please go to:
Giffords Law Center/Against Gun Violence
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/states/florida/
Deborah Coffey says
How many dead people do these Republicans need to feel happy? NO! NO! NO! No more guns!
Anthony says
Deborah,
Good question; however, shouldn’t you be asking democratic mayors why their crime and death rates are so high when they have some of the strictest gun laws in the country? For the record, I am opposed to the proposal as well.
Jp says
Highest rates stop regurgitating lies.
According to Everytown’s analysis of FBI data, the cities with the highest gun homicide rates in 2020 were all in states with lax gun laws:
Jackson, Mississippi — 69 gun homicides per 100,000 people.
Gary, Indiana — 64.
St. Louis — 50.
New Orleans — 48.
Memphis, Tennessee — 47.
DaleL says
The type and manner of ownership of firearms in developed countries is nearly uniformly severely restricted. The two most gun friendly countries in Europe (Finland and Switzerland) closely tie gun possession with the militia/military.
Taken in its entirety, our Second Amendment also associates the keeping and bearing of arms to the militia. It states: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,…” The reciprocal to a well regulated Militia (gun ownership) is logically one with no regulations. A reciprocal which endangers the security of a free State and its citizens. Allowing untrained people to purchase, keep, and bear arms is the opposite of well regulated.
While they are at it, why not do away with troublesome building regulations and driver’s licenses? If citizens don’t need training to carry, why do police need training? Back to reality, the highest law of the United States is The Constitution. It is above all the various religious “laws”. Elected officials, including Renner, should be aware of that. Renner: “The Constitution did not give us those rights, the creator gave us those rights.”
Renner’s claim that his religion (creator) gives us (everyone) the right to own, keep, and carry (bear) a semi-automatic weapon, equipped with a bump stock and a 30 round detachable magazine without training is both insane and anti-American.
Jonathan says
One of the many reasons I didn’t vote for him. With all the mass shootings in our country Renner’s proposal will add to the problems of gun violence in our country. As usual the cult GOP party is not a party of solutions but a party that adds more problems to our country.
If gun violence hits their family then you will witness how fast their tunes change. Until then they will still get their financial kick backs from the NRA.
Skibum says
I’m with Orange County Sheriff Mina, who understands the very real danger this proposed legislation will pose for everyone in this state. He has stated publicly that this is a horrible idea. Not only is it an asinine idea to put guns into the hands of everyone and anyone without even making it necessary that someone knows how to use a gun, when NOT to resort to using a gun, and how to safely secure a gun so kids or anyone other than the person who owns it can NOT access it, it will also make law enforcement’s job even more difficult and dangerous when an officer arrives on scene where even more civilians are armed with a weapon. How are they supposed to be able to tell a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun? This will most likely pass because our current makeup and leanings of the state legislature and governor pander to the very extreme elements of right-wing conservatism, and they have the votes to put this into law. Deathsantis will sign it because he has shown us who he really is. He will play to his base, and cares only about those red votes, not the lives that will be lost. And we all can be certain of one other thing as well. Right now, state sanctioned efforts are currently underway to ban books from school libraries, stifle any and all curriculum that pertains to black history, whitewash this country’s real history that doesn’t show our American Caucasian forefathers and ancestors in the best light, and bury any mention of LGBT, gay, transgender citizens in our schools and society despite same sex marriage being the law of the land. I don’t know about you, but if this proposed law instead was specifically to allow 1) blacks, or 2) LGBT citizens in the state to carry guns to protect themselves from the open and pervasive discrimination that is so profoundly and often orchestrated on these citizens, I have no doubt in my mind that our “wonderful” legislature and “excellent” LOL governor would throw such a proposal out the window of the state capitol so fast nobody could believe it. There, I said it. So much for this state’s legislative “protectors” enacting laws that will actually do something to protect its citizens and make Floridians’ lives better.
James says
Well written and thank you officer for your service.
DeathSantis will sign anything that hurts the safety of the people of Florida. Look how he ignored the COVID virus that killed so many people in Florida. He tries to do everything that Donald does looking for whoever will vote for him so he wants all of Donald’s supporters.
He is a true real con man, Donald taught him well.
freedomliberty says
That Governor, AND Paul Renner, passed a bill to reduce staff care hours for nursing home and assisted living residents just last year. They do NOT care about the citizens or elderly in this state, which has one of the highest rates of retirees in the nation. Governor DeSantis also is against Social Security and Medicare – as he proved while a congressman who created The Freedom Caucus – a congressional super conservative minority who wants to destroy the very successful Old Age and Survivors Retirement System that is Social Security, which was created after the horrors, utter poverty and desolution of the Great Depression (caused by years of republican congressional and White House neglect). He also wants to destroy all the regulations he can. Think about how unsafe everything would be if there were no regulations. Think about the poisoning of the air and water, the foods we eat, etc. without regulations, which these republicans want to kill off for profits. Vote for Adam Morley in the next election.
Oliver's mom says
Bravo Skibum!!! But looks like we’re on track for the illeterate to shoot librarians, the mentally unwell to gun down their therapists and the religious fanatics to barrage congregations of faith who don’t share their dogma.
Lynne says
SO – instead of enhancing gun control regulations, we are going to toss them out the window –
What we called, back in the day, NUCKING FUTS!!!
Bill C says
This idea works great in El Salvador, a country at war with itself. Renner is punking voters, he knows this will never pass congress and would be vetoed by Biden. But it does get him the rapt attention of the Governor DeSenseless supporters.
G A says
Nope. Renner is speaker of the Florida House. Biden has nothing to do with it. And since each republican is signing onto this crazy train these days it most likely will get passed. The voice of reason has left the building
Bill C says
Thank you. I made a mistake. The idea is so incredibly off-the-wall, it made me lose my mind.
Bill C says
PS Think of this- DeSantis runs for President in 2024, Renner runs for Congress, or even as the running mate for VP.
Jane E K says
Is there anyone dealing with a full deck here??? This is true insanity.
Shark says
It’s obvious that the nra owns the republican party – this is a prime example. Why don’t they do something about homeowners and auto insurance ???
freedomliberty says
Next to go will be drivers licenses and required driving classes/training/tests. Anyone, even the 10 year old child, or the blind, will be allowed to drive. Who cares if it causes more deaths? Eh – FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Renner needs to lose his next election. Vote for Adam Morley, someone who TRULY is for the people, Florida, liberty, freedom and our safety.
Skibum says
I can just see it now… Florida will be the first state in the nation to do away with drivers licenses and replace them with a state issued library license which citizens must possess and show at every library in FL, the self-proclaimed “freedom state” LOL, if you wish to check out or read books, all of which will have to pass the state’s banned books censors.
Atwp says
Republicans crazy white republicans, what else can I say!
palmcoaster says
And the nuts cases in Floriduh keep voting these extremist other than electing Adam Morley a Floridian that cares for our environment and coastal waters protection, our gun safety for our families and creating jobs and livable wages. This criminal proposal loosening restrictions any further and against gun safety proposal attempts against the safety of our residents families and those tourist as well to visit Florida. Does nothing to promote tourism the main staple of this estate that creates and sustains jobs! What is wrong with Renner doesn’t he have enough positive work to do in Tallahassee than this dangerous proposal instead to help us all in Florida, like increased growth without sufficient infrastructure, schools and services?
Robert Joseph Fortier says
Bad idea, probably for political reasons as well.
There is nothing difficult about getting a license to carry…if you qualify…and not all people qualify.
Floriduh says
Does anyone else see the irony in this photo? Let me get this straight. Our newly elected ultra conservative school board member Christy Chong’s husband manages a gun store that would most likely see record profits if this legislation passes resulting in an increase in gun related deaths? Because that’s what Jesu$ would want right?
Laurel says
The CDC states that the leading cause of children’s deaths in this country are guns, which surpassed Covid-19. Man, those right to lifers, anti-abortionists, pro anti-gun controllers sure can talk out of both sides of their mouths.
How conveeeeeeeeenient.
David Schaefer says
What a sick SOB…..
The Unvarnished Truth says
ROFL! I just LOVE reading these comments from people that don’t have a clue about the state of the world beyond their gated communities, formulated opinions from mass media, and look at the world as “Kumbaya”. There’s no such thing as “gun control” because the people that will kill you already have a gun. Do you think a criminal is going to comply with your laws? HELL NO! A gun is not a “magic talisman” whether you have a license or not, whether you carry it or not. The people that would do you harm certainly don’t need one. Ask yourself, what are you going to do when an armed person runs up to you at the gas station or coming out of Walmart to your car? Are you gonna “quick draw” and shoot the gun out of his hand? Are you gonna hope he stands there and allow you to go to your glove box, retrieve your gun and make it a fair fight? HELL NO! You gonna “bitchup” like everybody else and become another victim complaining about “gun control”. You really can’t say what you really think until you get around your “like-minded friends”.
Ask yourself a few other questions, “did you wake up this morning willing to car-jack”? “Did you wake up this morning willing to rob”? “Did you wake up this morning willing to murder someone you didn’t know? Guess what? The person you need protection from DOES and wouldn’t hesitate to do so. Whether this law passes or not. Whether you have your “magic talisman” or not. None of that shit matters when you are face to face with the people willing to do to you what you would hesitate to do to them. These wanna-be-tough internet thugs whose only weapon is “blah-blah-blah” never faced a REAL “tough guy” or thug with a gun because if they had, they wouldn’t be online with this “blah-blah-blah”. They’d be dead or too ashamed to let people know that another man made them their bitch.
To all of you, “nobody should have a gun, people”. Just remember that “the people willing to do you harm already has one and WILL use it”. Your being armed will at least give you a fighting chance in case you meet the indecisive criminal or one that has a toy gun – but IF that M-EFFER wanna “do you” …you are DONE
Boomhauer says
“YoU forGoT Yer CAPs “LocK!!!”
The Unvarnished Truth says
Seeing as how the “CAPS” were sporadic for emphasis, I refuse to be moved by your feeble insult. If you wanna insult me, DO BETTER…
blerbfamilyfive says
So if some nut job is not happy with their meal in a restaurant or the grocery store does not have their favorite product they can just take out their gun and shoot the server or grocery manager. But wait they can already do that can’t they? So what difference does it make whether you have a permit and training or not.
The Unvarnished Truth says
MY POINT EXACTLY! It happens almost daily. Remember that guy in the “taco shop”? He had a gun and had to wait for the inexperienced criminal with a “toy gun” to get the drop on him. Now imagine if it was two guys and one was robbing people and the other was training his gun on everybody else. What good would his gun be? Having a gun guarantees you absolutely nothing but a fighting chance with low odds. I’ve been there. Done that. I know others that have also.
However, back then ain’t NOTHING compared to what’s out there now. I am an “OG” and even I just shake my head and hope I’m never in that situation again. I am old and at this point, I’m definitely “drawing on the drop”…
Laurel says
Unvarnished: Your logic has merit, but it is the same logic as locks keep out only honest people. Do you keep your doors unlocked? If somebody wants to get in, they will get in, but the odds are in our favor if we make it harder for them.
Celia Pugliese says
Remember next time around vote Adam Morley versus incumbent Renner and this is from a still Rep registered. For worst Renner is a Palm Coast resident and this are the proposals he brings to us? What about seat down to work in more Fed aid to rebuild our beaches destroyed by hurricanes and more funds to widen our desperately needed and permanently delayed of Old Kings Road and build more roads with speed control devices on them like speed humps tables or circles to safeguard residents and less houses till then? Neighbors with same problem Mr. Renner instead of gun madness do something about this in Holly Hill and Palm Coast: https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2023/01/23/traffic-inbox-calle-grande-st-speeding
JOE D says
I grew up with my father’s hunting rifles and shot guns ( locked gun cabinet/no hand guns). Even though (50 years ago), there were no gun regulations like now, at age 16 and 17, he took my brother and I out to a shooting range to teach us how to shoot SAFELY. There was no formal training classes for us, but my machinist father knew TRAINING was essential! My brother at the time got a BOY SCOUT shooting safely merit badge (sponsored by the NRA if you can believe it). Even though I currently own no guns, I appreciate the right of VETTED ADULT citizens to own one ( although I can’t in good conscience see why AR-15 ASSAULT rifles would be needed for simple self defense, when 10-15 round semi-automatic hand gun would be the MOST you would ever need for PERSONAL or FAMILY safety)
?
With Renner’s proposal of no permit/no required training for carrying a concealed weapon/ no background check, exactly how would the “people who shouldn’t be carrying guns now”…..be screened out in the new permitless process. Are Gun Shop employees to now “EYEBALL “ a customer to decide if they fall under the “old” exception list for not legally owning a gun….GOOD GRIEF!
Instead of the WILD WILD WEST, It’s going to be the WILD WILD BEACH! Although Concealed Carry might be a bit difficult in a Speedo or a bikini!
The legislature has TRULY lost its MIND…..
DaveK says
Rep. Renner, please do the same for car owners, restaurant owners, and beauticians. Thank you.