Once a year Palm Coast’s government spends nearly $11,000 on a survey to better grasp how residents judge living and working conditions in the city. The 2014 results—based on 361 responses, a low sample–were presented to the Palm Coast City Council Tuesday. They paint a bright picture. They paint a dull and sometimes bleak picture. And yes, a contradictory picture, too, depending on how the numbers are interpreted. Discussions among council members themselves reflected those contradictions, though most numbers were blacker than gray.
In some ways, the 2014 results are a marketer’s dream. Eighty percent of respondents would recommend living in Palm Coast. Ninety-two percent felt safe in their neighborhood. Eighty-seven percent said they were not the victim of crime (though if the flip side of that is that anywhere near 13 percent were the victim of crime, it would equate to almost 10,000 victims, an entirely improbable number: the whole county’s crime rate is about a fifth of that).
Well over 80 percent rate positively the natural environment, and 70 percent or more gave good marks to the city’s trails or ease of bicycle travel. Police, ambulance and fire services get some of the highest approval ratings in the survey, though ambulance services are in considerable part provided by the county and police services by the sheriff, neither of which a city service. City residents are happy with their garbage and recycling collections, their parks, their public library (again: a county service, though the survey does not make that distinction in its questions), and when they interact with government employees, residents by large margins find them courteous, prompt and knowledgeable.
In sum, in a town rife with anti-government rhetoric, what residents find most to cherish, appreciate and recommend is in one way or another made possible by their government. And yet, in one of the pronounced ironies of the survey, just 46 percent of respondents gave positive marks for the value of services they get in exchange for their taxes, a number that more likely reflects the trickle down rhetoric of national alienation from government than actual opinions about specific government services, as reflected by numerous specific questions.
There are warning signs: overall quality of life, while still rated positively by 73 percent of respondents, has declined from 82 percent 12 years ago. Palm Coast’s image is also declining, but at a slower pace (that question has only been asked in the past five years), and the city’s overall appearance has improved by 10 points in that 12-year span.
Beyond that, the responses are not so enthusiastic, especially when it comes to Palm Coast’s sense of place, its economy, its shopping opportunities and its traffic.
In terms of the economy, a dismal 6 percent respond positively when asked whether Palm Coast has employment opportunities. That may have been expected as a consequence of the Great Recession, which struck Palm Coast and Flagler more severely than most counties and cities in the country. But the 6 percent response is actually a decrease from a peak of 13 percent positive response in 2013, the most positive mark that question has elicited in the past 12 years: Palm Coast has never been seen as a place of opportunities. Just 18 percent have anything good to say about Palm Coast as place to work.
“What would be interesting though is,” council member Bill McGuire said, “how many people moved to the city of Palm Coast because they felt there were employment opportunities here. I didn’t.”
“I ask that question all the time when I talk to groups,” Landon said. “Some people moved here because they liked the quality of life, they like the neighborhoods and they work elsewhere.”
Council member Steven Nobile was surprised by what he was hearing. “Are we satisfied with this? Is that what I’m hearing?” he asked.
“I don’t think I’m saying satisfied or not satisfied. I think it’s a fact of life in Palm Coast,” Landon said.
“If we’re OK with that, that means it’s not going to change,” Nobile said. “If we‘re not OK with it, if we believe this is an issue, then we’re going to do something to try and get those numbers up.”
“You’ve got the economic opportunity council at the county working on this, you’ve got the business assistance center working on this,” Netts said.
Nobile wasn’t convinced. “And apparently what’s the trend?” he asked. “It’s showing that maybe they need a little dicing up, because 6 percent for 10 years?”
Another poor mark: the cost of living, long considered a selling point for Palm Coast, is rated very low, with just 37 percent responding positively. Health care gets relatively fair marks, mostly in the 50 percent range, but the quality of mental health is seen as very poor, with just 31 percent responding approvingly.
Residents find some of Palm Coast’s selling points not convincing, either. The council has been making much of the increasing shopping opportunities in town, and in terms of sheer number, those opportunities have indisputably increased over the past few years. But residents don’t consider the increase as significant as the council does. Just 23 percent of respondents considered shopping opportunities good or excellent 12 years ago. That number went up well into the 40 percent range in the past few years, but was down to 36 percent in 2014, a year that saw the closure of the city’s only real book store and the temporary dislocation of shopping opportunities created by the reconstruction of the Palm Harbor shopping center into Island Walk.
“I don’t think that matches up very well with what’s actually happening because we know from our sales tax revenue that there’s more businesses and services now than ever before,” council member Jason DeLorenzo said, though the fact that residents shop locally—and 99 percent say they do—does not necessarily mean they are satisfied with their choices.
Palm Coast rates low in two other significant indicators of quality of life: just 41 percent of respondents gave good marks for the city’s cultural and artistic offerings. Just 25 percent said the city has anything like a vibrant downtown area (Palm Coast has no such thing as a downtown area), and just 46 percent gave higher marks for social events or activities.
Council members were critical of the low sample of 361 respondents, even though the city mailed out surveys to 1,200 randomly chosen residents (in a city of between 75,000 and 80,000 residents). Landon said a larger sample would not have significantly changed the results. Nobile pointed out that, according to the survey, 87 percent of respondents had voted in “local” elections. That’s never happened, of course, and when local elections alone have been on the ballot–as when, for example, city council ,members or the mayor were in play–turnout was well below 20 percent until the city had its elections coincide with general election cycles. Netts suggested that people who respond to survey tend to be more engaged, and may well have been the lilier voters.
“How can I delicately say this? The people that show an interest in what the city of Palm Coast government does isn’t very big,” he said. “If you get four or five citizens at a workshop and five at a council meeting, these are people who care about what we do. Why do we not automatically include anybody that’s ever been to the citizen’s academy as part of this survey because they’ve already demonstrated that they’re interested in what the city does, they know how the city works and they have an opinion that would be relevant, because a lot of the citizen’s survey questions are not real focused.”
But the survey, Landon said, is “actually intended to do just the opposite of trying to get the opinion of the people you talk to on a regular basis because they show interest. This is more of a general population, it doesn’t usually communicate with us, and it gives them an opportunity to express their opinion.”
“You give as much credence to this as you feel it deserves,” Mayor Jon Netts said, though he considered the response rate too low, “understanding that you are getting a response from people who are not familiar with—but I think it’s important to understand what they think. Perceptions are reality in Mr. Landon’s famous tagline. So if this is their perception, well, is it something that we need to deal with.”
Landon returned to the notion of perception versus reality to dull the harder edges of the survey results, as in matters of job creation over the past several years, which Landon says has been in the thousands in Palm Coast—only to get a rebuke from Nobile.
“Let’s be careful,” Nobile said. “I don’t think it’s perception. I think it’s reality. We can’t count people working at the 10 McDonald’s we have, or at the Dollar stores. When I hear and when most people I talk to hear the words employment opportunity, they mean livable employment opportunity, not just a job. They’re talking about a job that I can support my family on.”
The survey is part of the city council’s annual exercise in determining what matters most to residents and how to address it when the council sets its goals for the coming year. “I’m sure every council member gets phone calls, emails, at home, on a daily basis, identifying issues,” Netts said. “This is just one more piece of data that we receive that helps make doing our job better.”
The full survey results appear below.
Palm Coast Residents Survey (2015)
Joe says
So what are you going to do about the lack of sustainable jobs ??? I have been here for almost 15 years, my kids have moved on because there are no decent opportunities here. Nobile, here is your chance to redeem yourself, get some jobs that pay a decent wage in this city!!!
I/M/O says
My Grandfather always told his Grandchildren “You have to go where the jobs are the jobs don’t come to you.”
Two years ago I was in a hospital and watched a news story how South Dakota was looking for just about every type of worker. The woman who worked in the hospital taking care of the rooms and who delivered the snacks at night had told me her son was out of work. That he was a welder by trade.
I told her about the news report and that the Dakota’s had a website up where one could look for a job. Two nights later she came into the room and said “I just have to thank you; my son called the people in South Dakota and they hired him over the phone. He leaves tomorrow.”
Somehow my Grandfather who had often left this country during economic downturns to work in Panama or Chile smiled down on us.
Seriously says
I/M/O stated:
My Grandfather always told his Grandchildren “You have to go where the jobs are the jobs don’t come to you.”
And historically that has been true, but Obama stated in a speech the other day at Georgia Tech, the opposite. Obama, said the jobs always go to the area’s where the workers are.”
Someone is lying is it your grandfather or Obama? I’ll think it is Obama!
tulip says
361 people out of the thousands we have people is a ridiculously low number to use for a survey! You could take 361 from another area and get a different result.
I think Palm Coast overall is a nice place to live
.
However, I think they require too many trees on a small house lot, there is too much trees and shrubbery concealing businesses and not enough signage and I don’t mean we should have neon all over the place. There are many businesses here that people don’t know about because they are so hidden. Shopping is okay, especially in the last few years. A lot of businesses don’t list in a phone book, which is strange. I like the code enforcement although lately they’ve been very lax, I like the trash pick up, the trails and parks, the red light cameras and the pretty places to drive around in. The water quality is good.
People that moved here without checking out the job situation were very foolish. If people have to make a living and support a family, the job opportunities should be #1 priority before purchasing a home here. Although as stated in the article, people live in PC and work elsewhere. Its like that in most places.
There is no utopia anywhere and each place has it’s pros and cons. With all the new people moving here, it cant’ be too bad.
All in all, I like Palm Coast, even if the traffic is getting heavier andheavier.
Nikia says
Working elsewhere doesn’t sustain the quality of life. It gets old after awhile and people end up moving on and moving out. So many people I know have come and gone in the 10 years I have lived here because there is no stability. Even if you are retired there is always the question of family being able to be together.
Groot says
I’m confused. If these results are accurate, why do we have such low property values? Why are there so many renters in homes that used to be owner occupied? Why can’t I and many of my neighbors sell our homes for a fair price and move on from this paradise if we so desire and many of us do want to move on? It seems skewed. It’s just not reality.
ted bundy says
sounds about right!!!
Lin says
While I agree and disagree with the survey respondents, their opinions should certainly be respected and the responses taken seriously by the Council.
Far too few surveys were sent out. I have never gotten one and don’t know anyone personally that has.
In short, I think our quality of life is slipping here in Palm Coast and I think the 46% value for our taxes has to do with the Council’s decision of what to spend our money on such as City Hall, debt for Sewage Plant, Tennis & Golf money losing courses, etc. in lieu of fixing the swales that residents complain about and in my own case, getting water rates into a range of normal instead of ridiculous.
If the Council wants to take credit for the good stuff here in Palm Coast, they must take responsibility for the failings.
Mr. McGuire, just because we don’t attend the workshops or council meetings does NOT mean we don’t care. A lot of us CANNOT attend because we have jobs, family responsibilities, etc. even though we would like to be at the meetings. Oh, isn’t that what we hired you and the other Council members for?
To choose the recipients of the survey and limit it to those YOU choose are worthy such as Citizen Academy grads or others you can influence is kind of defeating the purpose. Just pat yourself on the back, say everything is perfect and get on with your business.
Vincent says
When I moved to Palm Coast 20 years ago, I was told that this is not the place to come if you need to work
It is basically the same 20 years later. If the rest of our country was waiting for innovation and inventions to come from Flagler County we would be as a country maybe in the early 1900’s. The money that has allowed Flagler County and Palm Coast to even be on the map comes mostly from the north. Areas like this that do not have a sufficient amount of jobs that can support families have very weak economies. The economic multiplier effect of good paying jobs is just not here. The outcome in the decades I have lived here of all the politics , meetings, and elections in solving our job problem is that we still do not have good employment for our residents. We need leadership that understands how far behind we really are before it is possible to even be brought into the 21st Century. Where is Flagler County and Palm Coast in Technology and Tooling? Well we need to look no further than our poor quality cell communications. This is a nice place to visit, get a good laugh ,and then go home to reality.
I/M/O says
Reply to Groot….Palm Coast is no different as to the rest of the nation when it comes to jobs and home ownership.
52% of Americans that are working today are earning less than $30,000 a year.
Home ownership is down to 20% of the national population.
97 million people in this nation are not working or refuse to work.
You see Mr. Grott every dime of the 4 trillion dollars in new money that has been printed in the last 10 years is either going to social services benefits or to prop up phony stock market prices to give the appearance the economy has rebounded.
We both know the economy has not rebounded. Today money is flowing up not trickling down.
As to living in Palm Coast I suggest we all get down on our knees each day and thank
God that Palm Coast has excellent God Fearing hard working parents raising wonderful children.
Good schools full of great and well behaved children. .
An excellent Sheriff’s Depatment.
Personally I find the shopping more than adequate and just love the demeanor, personal appearance and courtesy of those who work in the stores.
Not sure if you were born here or where you may have come from but where I came from there is nothing but deterioration since 2008, rising crime, self indulgence and a lot of rudeness.
I give our new home Palm Coast a Great Big A+!
Michael says
People think they do not get enough for their tax dollars, we pay next to nothing here in property taxes, so what do you expect. The City and its council are lead around like a blind dog by Manager Landon, he has always done what he wants and until Netts is gone that will never change. It is time for a shake up at city hall, get rid of the highest paid city manager around and bring in new ideas on how to make PC a better more economically stable city, or leave Landon here and get the same results 10 years down the road again.
Ray Thorne says
I agree with McGuire. I didn’t move here for the employment opportunities. There were none 20+ years ago (pre city). I had a short commute to Daytona for work. I moved here because it was a nice little town away from the hustle and bustle. We were kind of hidden away from it all. We werent even on the map. We were a quiet peaceful relaxing town with wild life abound. We were friendly. All that is changing. We are no longer the place to escape to. No longer unique. No longer the place where when you visited other towns you were thankful your town wasnt so built up and didn’t have the traffic issues they had. It was nice to come home to after a days work. We had a small town feel, one of the better slices in the pie. This is still a great place to live but change seems inevitable as people move here and want to make this town like the very one they left behind.
Brad W says
I like the idea that the City seeks t get feedback each year. It’s a good investment. I think the method and sample size of the population is too small. I agree with Mr. Landon that it should definitely be an approach to hear from people you normally wouldn’t hear from. To put it in business terms – your best customers are not always the best to provide a snapshot of your business. You want to hear from the people who aren’t your customers and find out what they think.
When it comes to the economy and jobs, Steven Nobile is misguided. Mr. McGuire and Mr. Landon are correct, people aren’t (and the good majority haven’t moved to Palm Coast for employment opportunities. They moved here because of quality of life (higher) and cost of living (lower). If they did move here for employment opportunity, it has mostly been because of jobs that existed outside of Palm Coast. Most job loss has been from jobs lost outside of Palm Coast. Steven Nobile believes we can create the jobs here, but has no plan to do so. His plan is to create a Economic Council just like the County has and use our tax dollars to fund the duplicate effort. And who do you think will be on that Council? Look no further than the RRA people.
In addition, Nobile has spoken about te same failed plan as seen with every other community throughout the country . . . get big corporations to relocate here. The problem with “just get businesses to move here” is that it assumes we have the workforce with the skills to meet every employment situation. The reality is that we do not. Therefore, we would see businesses move here and simply hire outside the community which happens time and time again. The real problem that Nobile (and everyone else) never addresses is what does the industry picture really look like in Palm Coast? This ain’t New York or a big City suburb in Ohio yet people think that we can make it be like that. And there is no mention of the strong and vibrant local small business community here. Many many people are making there own way and doing well without expecting others to provide their way. FlaglerLive is a prime example of that too.
ryan says
actually, we do have the big city rudeness and very unneighborly people.
David S. says
How long does Netts have in office? The majority of people who work here have to travel to other towns or cities to work . There has always been a problem in Flagler County for good employment ,i feel that its the governments falt for not promoting jobs for this area there is plenty of room on US1 and other areas for this ,they have had plenty of chances to do this and have failed,its a shame that Flagler County still has the higest unemployment rate in central Fla.
Groot says
Agree David but it’s the City Manager, not the Mayor who is responsible. How long does Landon have to go on his current contract? When it’s up, we need to dump him.
Anonymous says
how long has it been since city employes got a raise other than the uper class people witch they get a raise every year.If Landon got paid what city employes make he would already be gone
confidential says
Many jobs will be recovered and or created I of our tax generated contracts other than being outsourced out of this county will be assigned right here. Nope, majority go out of our area based in frivolous excuses like well that (fishing hooked) bid for a whole year supply or service was $800 or so cheaper elsewhere…but also creates year around jobs elsewhere while the rest of the work then is assigned to the same outsider contractor without bids. Always excuses to assign our tax payers funded contracts to some (city conveniently connected entity) to be manufactured outside the county or even outside Florida. We have millions in local tax funded contracts generating wealth elsewhere. All county and cities government do that, and some semi private or private entities like the Flager Chamber, Hospital were our citizens volunteer, schools etc. By the way when these developers come to our local government asking for special exceptions for a project we should have an special requirement to be complied with as “that they contract local” if they want the special exception passed. Nope we give them all what they ask and request nothing in return….”that at least we know”. Probably what is asked is just to benefit some on the approval entity.
Rob says
You’ve got the economic opportunity council at the county working on this, you’ve got the business assistance center working on this,” Netts said.
Well what are you doing and what have you done? Palm Coast is the leader in Florida’s unemployment; and it is sandwiched between two prosperous counties. This area is low income with the median incomes below $23K. So you have a family with two wage earners having to work 4 jobs part time to gain full time incomes. Don’t count Hendy County it’s in the middle of nowhere. Palm Coast/Flagler is right on the interstate.
It was told to me that the reason there is little to no gainful employment here is because that is the way the town councilors wanted it. I am beginning to believe that theory. If they didn’t want a condition to exist the condition wouldn’t exist. The theory is that the reason there is no gainful employment is as follows. If this area becomes a viable area for employment that means there will be an increase in employable people, families and younger people. That would upset the status quo, the retirement community image. Furthermore, in the past most of the town councilors were retired. So why would a person who is retired, and has retirement incomes care about the fortunes of someone who is not and does not. They more than likely don’t and the proof is in their inactions. If there is no economic vitality or meaningful business growth (not McDonalds, Chick-fil-A, or mobile phone store) in this city the retirees will continue to bear the cost of government and as we know or should know governments exist to grow.
A previous poster asks how long does Netts have in office? I believe he is out next year. It would be nice if he could take his red light cameras with him. And Jim Landon is not the problem. Remove him and another one with a different name, with the same inordinate compensation will appear. It is the system/form of government that is the issue.
George says
“What would be interesting though is,” council member Bill McGuire said, “how many people moved to the city of Palm Coast because they felt there were employment opportunities here. I didn’t.”
“I ask that question all the time when I talk to groups,” Landon said. “Some people moved here because they liked the quality of life, they like the neighborhoods and they work elsewhere.”
Comments like this confirm to me that we need new younger blood in these seats. These statements may have held true 30 years ago when families were moving into Palm Coast, but this isn’t the case any longer. There are children that were born and raised here heading off to college. They did not chose to live here, they were born here. Is the message to them “Go to college and stay gone?” These children have been raised into Adults in Palm Coasts and the city should be growing up right besides them. These children should be able to find a reasonable job in their city to raise their children too. Does Palm Coast like being known as a transplant city? No. These families that moved here 20-30 years ago should be able to plant roots for generations to come. I’m very happy that you all moved here 20 years ago because you liked the area. 20-30 years ago it was more on a retirement community, but it is NOT now. Open your minds to all ages and generations, don’t just cater to one group.
Brad W says
It’s interesting you say that “we need new younger blood in these seats”. Why do you think we don’t? Because younger people don’t care? No, the answer to that is simple . . . make all of the business meetings in the evening. Younger people are working and can’t be at Council meetings and business that takes place from 9am – 5pm. And among all of the “geniuses” who complain, no one ever raises that issue.
Mike Baker says
I think the one thing that everyone agrees on here is the need for more higher end shopping and dining. I see Daytona has figured this out with the things that they are doing on the beach and around the track. Its time to move on from Motorcycles and car races. Great for the economy for a few weeks a year. People move to other areas in Florida to live. We have trails and parks. That’s great but not a drawing card for upscale buyers. The buildings (restaurants) along A1A look like crap, but that’s another story. Not inviting for dining.
So I hope we fix it. But I think we are not seen as even a medium end consumer to the people to build new restuarants and shops. Also I hear that we are not Friendly to business. (retailers) might not be true.
Anonymous says
“What would be interesting though is,” council member Bill McGuire said, “how many people moved to the city of Palm Coast because they felt there were employment opportunities here. I didn’t.”
“I ask that question all the time when I talk to groups,” Landon said. “Some people moved here because they liked the quality of life, they like the neighborhoods and they work elsewhere.”
SERIOUSLY? Excuse me Bill McGuire, but the current generation looking for jobs in Palm Coast were RAISED here. We didn’t move here by choice! Our families are here, we have been here since we were young children. Are you saying we should move now that we are in our 30’s and looking for “real” jobs since Palm Coast has nothing to offer? Please look at the amount of families that moved here when Palm Coast had its big BOOM….from lets say 1995-2005. Yes, maybe the parents moved here at that time because they had a grandparent here, or because the liked the neighborhood….but those people have had children since then, or moved young children with them and those children are NOW ADULTS! LOOKING FOR JOBS! Wake up Palm Coast.
Palm Coaster since 1996 says
“What would be interesting though is,” council member Bill McGuire said, “how many people moved to the city of Palm Coast because they felt there were employment opportunities here. I didn’t.”
“I ask that question all the time when I talk to groups,” Landon said. “Some people moved here because they liked the quality of life, they like the neighborhoods and they work elsewhere.”
SERIOUSLY? Excuse me Bill McGuire, but the current generation looking for jobs in Palm Coast were RAISED here. We didn’t move here by choice! Our families are here, we have been here since we were young children. Are you saying we should move now that we are in our 30’s and looking for “real” jobs since Palm Coast has nothing to offer? Please look at the amount of families that moved here when Palm Coast had its big BOOM….from lets say 1995-2005. Yes, maybe the parents moved here at that time because they had a grandparent here, or because the liked the neighborhood….but those people have had children since then, or moved young children with them and those children are NOW ADULTS who are having their own kids who will be raised in Palm Coast! Wake up Palm Coast.
Ray Thorne says
How do we go about blaming the city because parents chose to move here and have kids? I say that as someone who moved here 20 years ago and as a parent of a high school student. I have worked outside of Palm Coast for most of the years I’m here and was always glad when I got home to a quieter less congested place.
Groot says
Sadly for some, this is and always was a retirement community with some tourism. Jobs that are here are ancillary to the retirement community. This means the jobs here are service industry type jobs like health care, restaurants, grocery, retail, entertainment, etc…The boom jobs that were here earlier were construction related and the place is built out. It’s just not likely that those boom jobs will ever come back. While there are still realtors and developers pushing for more houses, it’s pretty much done here. The building boom was over a longtime ago. Now if the city manager would be creative and take a problem like unemployment and create an opportunity with some creative thinking, it would sure help the situation.
Brad W says
I disagree. It’s not just “retirement”. Palm Coast is a “bedroom community” mostly. People live here but most don’t work here. It’s not uncommon at all here or in many part of the country. Yes, this type of community does create mostly service-related jobs. This is not a bad thing. This is a pretty nice town with affordable housing, good schools, and pretty low taxes.
When it comes to growth, it is far from over. It’s not being (and never was) driven by developers or realtors. It’s driven by consumer demand. Housing sales have been increasing significantly for a few years now, inventory of existing homes for sale is way down, and new builds has picked up dramatically. The local population is growing significantly every year. Land is far from being in short supply and Palm Coast is far from being “built out”. If we were “built out” vacant lot prices would be in the 6-figure range but they still remain around the $10k – $15k range for 10,000 sqft lots.
Many jobs have been created, and many have created great local companies surrounding construction and housing industries. I think it’s important to make assessments based upon facts.
tulip says
Some have mentioned that they were here as children and are now raising their own children here in PC. and are concerned about the job market. If that is a big concern, wouldn’t it make sense to check out other cities and towns to see what the job market has to offer and, when you find a good place, you should move there where things would be “better?”
ryan says
To be honest, I have been all over the country and world, and out of everywhere I have been, I have never met so many rude and selfish people in my life. Finding a job here has been almost impossible, and the increasing crime rate has got to be dealt with.
tulip says
Even if all the council meetings were held at night, it would make no difference to the younger group of people. If it did, you would see them there on the times the meetings were at night. And if they were really interested,could watch replays on the tv. Heck, even the people who graduated from Citizens Acadamy leave the meeting after they received their certificates—they don’t even stay for the rest of it! What’s with that?
The younger generation is too busy raising families, playing video games, social media and just not interested in what’s really going on amongst the leaders who run things, and only respond with negativity to things they don’t like or repeat what someone else says. I’ll bet the majority of them don’t even know the names of the council people or Bocc people. They don’t even read the paper, or watch news about local politics. It takes a few years for these people to mature to that level.