U.S. Democratic representatives characterized the state-run immigrant detention center in the Everglades as a cruel and wasteful political stunt following a guided tour Saturday.
Members of Congress and state legislators who visited the site described seeing bugs on mattresses, toilets and showers that lacked privacy, small food portions, and temperatures between 83 and 85 degrees in the air-conditioned areas.
“There are really disturbing, vile conditions, and this place needs to be shut the hell down,” said South Florida U.S. Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz of the detention center at the Dade-Collier Training and Transition Airport.
The South Florida Democrat said 32 men slept in each of the cages with bed bunks and three sinks attached to the toilets. Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier announced hundreds of people started arriving on July 2.
Democrats labeled the tour as sanitized because they couldn’t speak to any of the detainees or staff. Detainees have told the Miami Herald and CBS News that they hadn’t been able to shower, the toilets didn’t flush, and that the food had maggots.
Anna Eskamani, a state representative from Orlando, said Kevin Guthrie, director of the Florida Division of Emergency Management, led the tour. The agency is in charge of the site.
“It was just incredibly dystopian, and a lot of lack of clarity on what rules and procedures are actually being followed as it pertains to those being detained, as it pertains to what their status is,” Eskamani said in a phone interview with Florida Phoenix.
Eskamani is one of five Democrats in the Florida Legislature suing the state after they weren’t allowed to enter the detention center on July 3. FDEM invited Congress members and state lawmakers on Wednesday for the tour Saturday, when U.S. representatives said they were already planning on conducting an oversight visit.
Meanwhile, Kristi Noem, secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, defended conditions at the detention center during a press conference in Tampa on Saturday, saying it was held to the same standards as federal facilities. However, she sidestepped specific questions about the site because it is state-run.
“Any issues that were there have been addressed,” she said. “It’s a fantastic resource for us to be able to utilize in order for a detention facility to repatriate people back home to their home countries.”
Governors in five Republican states have told Noem they want to build detention centers like the one in the Everglades, Noem said. She refused to say which governors expressed interest.
Spring Hill Republican Sen. Baise Ingoglia, an ally of Gov. Ron DeSantis, also visited on Saturday. The senator, possibly in line as DeSantis’ pick as chief financial officer, wrote on X that Democrats’ rhetoric about the detention center didn’t match reality.
“I actually laid down in one of the beds and it was really comfortable, Ingoglia wrote. “So, any complaints about squalor conditions is nothing more than bullsh*t and political theater.”
“Alligator Alcatraz” is the name Florida’s Republican leadership have give to the camp.
Despite the poor conditions Democrats described, South Florida Democratic Rep. Jared Moskowitz said the detention center shouldn’t be compared to a concentration camp. Moskowitz served as the head of FDEM for two years under DeSantis.
“Listen, it is as bad as it can be, but it is not a concentration camp, and people should not use Holocaust references to describe what’s going on behind us,” he told reporters following the tour.
–Jackie Llanos, Florida Phoenix
don miller says
the disturbed lawmakers don’t get it. they made laws others broke and want nothing done about it. the whole idea is to make AA so uninviting the illegals will self deport rather than chance a visit there. Dems would like that we leave lawbreakers here, support them monetarily or spend millions trying to round them up rather than scare them out.
Jackson says
How much is this costing the US taxpayers? And who is behind the for profit companies running these facilities?
Wow says
Concentration camp. How is this not cruel and unusual punishment? Which, if I remember right, used to be against the constitution. It’s sick that MAGAs get so much glee from being hateful.
It reminds of that experiment I learned about in college where they had people give someone else “shocks”. Which were actually fake but the “victim” would pretend to be hurt and scream. The experiment found that some people refused to continue administering shocks but others ENJOYED IT. And happily continued past the point where they were warned they might kill the “victim.” This is sick behavior.
Dennis C Rathsam says
As usual the cryers are all TRUMP hating democrates, the fools that created this mess! I dont see anyone a cross the asle with a better plan.There plan is to create violence, bloodshed in the streets. The JACKASS party cares more for Bidens invaders than Americans. Biden was the master of child trafficing into the sex trade, & sweat shops. ICE has already found 10k of these kids. 9 were found working illegally in Newsomes Ca pot farm. I guess its working, none of these mental giants have tryed to escape. Someone has to stop this madness,& TRUMP is the man to do it.
FlaPharmTech says
Due process?! Color of skin?!
I am SICK to witness what’s happening to the USA.
No Kings!
Kat says
Don Miller, I don’t think you can see the forest for the trees. The point is not to make it so uninviting that people self deport, the point is cruelty. The entire immigration system is broken and rounding these people up and putting them in concentration camps is not the answer. This is all political theater, it’s going to come back to bite America in the ass. It’s going to affect everybody’s bottom line, which is probably what you’re most concerned about because I don’t see much empathy in your post. My heart is breaking for the way people are being treated, both Americans and people who are not US citizens. Under no circumstance is this humane. Nothing about this administration is humane.
Own it cons says
the lawmen that built the concentration camp don’t care if people die, cruelty is the point! Just more republican terror of other humans! Literally let kids go hungry for another dollar for Elon! Sad and pathetic! Let’s let racist ron and his boot licking followers go there for the next hurricane hahaha! Live stream it !! I’m sure conditions will be totally normal haha for a concentration camp! Own the deaths r cons you made it happen!!!Republicans for Hell on earth 2026! Burn baby burn!!
JimboXYZ says
I thought “Gator Gitmo” was a good alternate name for the facility. At any rate, what did the Democrat lawmakers expect South Beach Miami 5 star accommodations ? Didn’t read anything about children, family separation, just that detainees for deportation had toilets & sinks. Kinda like what anyone has in an apartment Not sure what the bog deal is about the fenced cages, what’s the difference between that and a cubicle wall or drywall beyond the privacy ? You know, rumor has it that Obama & Biden built cages, separated children/families, deported their share. That is until Biden-Harris felt that putting illegals up in hotels & using schools to house, spending hundreds of millions thru FEMA was the humane approach as the solution to it all. Biden’s redo as POTUS of doing it wrong as Obama’s VPOTUS ?
Makes me wonder what kind of squallor for conditions the illegals lived in when they weren’t housed at Alligator Alcatraz ? Anyone’s guess what the inside of any rental looks like once the clutter starts to accumulate ?
Plastic Tide says
Doesn’t the Bible say capture any immigrant kids at their kindergarten graduations and separate them from their families and send them to such concentration camps???the kids there are gonna love the mosquitoes and the size of the cage the get to share with only what 100 other adult people? I guess the concentration of people thin out over time at the camps. ….And if you believe “conservative“news don’t forget to drink your bleach this Covid flu season to prevent the virus!!
la salida says
Who is behind supporting someone breaking the law and who profits from that?
Endless dark money says
Sad, you all see the video of kids in chain gang in LA ? They like 7 years old. Sure the proud boys are treating them well! Your pretty sick if you like that or support that evil!
Impeach that mango!
Greg says
If you believe all the democrat political crap, I have some land for sale cheap. Most Florida prisons have NO air conditioning and they are complaining about 83 degrees. They just want another 4 star motel like NY City paid for.
GetALife says
Of course the Democrats would find it ‘vile.’ Everything they stand for is the complete opposite of everyday life. It was the illegals who “illegally” crossed our borders, and hence, that’s a CRIME. FYI, in case they didn’t realize, prison isn’t a Waldorf Astoria.
Local double taxpayer says
Same old same old blowing things out of proportion. This is practically a brand new facility. Sure they’re going to have a few kinks in the beginning but that will be ironed out. I’d be willing to bet $1,000 there were no maggots in the food. State prisoners don’t even have air conditioning. Where is the outcry for the Americans with no air conditioning when you have a legal people in this country that get air conditioning when they’re detained? You think these Democrats would get on board with the way 80% of Americans think.
Mr Crowley says
Aligator Alcatraz is so insensitive. Perhaps it should be renamed The Okeechobee Señor Living Center instead.
youmm ama says
Stop defending these depraved individuals being escorted out of a country they had no business entering the way they did. It’s a way station, not a permanent stop. Shameful BS and grandstanding by the “opposition party”. So completely tiresome yet predictable.
Deborah Coffey says
So, it’s okay with the MAGAs that the United States of America is now an SS police state complete with concentration camps? Sure, because they’re more interested in the Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies. @ don Miller: Do you remember when Senator Rubio put forward a comprehensive immigration reform law that was more than acceptable to both sides in Congress? Then, Trump called his loyal Senators and told them to drop it because he needed to run in 2024 on runaway immigration? Blame TRUMP, not Congress!
Laurel says
The fact that a U.S. Senator is taking a selfie in front of a state paid ridiculous sign, is clear evidence that our state, and our country, is run by immature people who shouldn’t be in power. The “Grand Old Party” is no more. Now, it’s a sham.
There is no way that John McCain would have ever sanctioned such childish foolishness. All that he fought for, literally, stood for and worked his whole life for, this country, is now being shown to the world as a joke.
It is an internment camp. It is a disgrace.
Marlee says
and…..no one answered the question about plans for…… hurricanes?
Maybe they didn’t think about that?
Pierre Tristam says
Not nearly as depraved as the prejudicial depravity of a comment like this, considering how many of these individuals are nowhere near the “criminals” the criminal administration makes them out to be.
Laurel says
Pierre Tristam: It’s not about criminality, about legality, it’s about Trump, and DeSantis, triggering reactions in their base. Just the same as anti-abortionists are not about babies, they are about controlling women. That was made clear when the current administration took money away from programs that feed children.
It’s about controlling the masses, done through theater. That’s it, and that’s all. It works. Power for power’s sake. The base buys it, as you can see in some of these comments.
Pogo says
@Laurel
The bald-headed anal sphincter you refer to is a state senator, not a U.S. senator; both of Floriduh’s U.S. senators are no better, so a tiny error indeed. Maybe you mistook it for Moody sans wig.
All in all — your comment is 100% on point. And entirely better than the wet fart that came out of Ingoglia’s face.
Skibum says
I would love to hear one single, rational response from any of you maga supporting commenters above who said that the people being locked up in this “detainment” facility committed a crime and you support anyone who has committed a crime being locked up.
1) If that is in fact true, how do you explain, or more precisely, JUSTIFY locking up an undocumented immigrant who is presumed to have crossed the border into the U.S. illegally – which is a misdemeanor federal offense, and treating them like a dangerous, hardened criminal who needs to be deported based solely on that misdemeanor crime that has discretion whether to put such a person in custody or merely give them a hearing date to appear?
2) If you believe undocumented individuals in the U.S. should be locked up based on their minor offense of crossing illegally into the U.S., wouldn’t you be even more in favor of those who have committed serious FELONY criminal offenses? Like the convicted felon Trump, who was tried and convicted of all 34 felony counts against him, in a unanimous verdict by a jury of his peers? How about the more than 1,500 insurrectionist rioters who were convicted of misdemeanor and/or felony crimes for their involvement in the Jan. 6 attempt to overthrow an election, and were subsequently pardoned by the felon president who keeps railing on about how immigrants who have committed no more than a misdemeanor are much more of a danger to our country and need to be locked up than serious violent offenders who have committed felony crimes in support of the felon president?
You cannot claim to be for law and order, or pro-law enforcement when instead you are in support of locking up and sending people who have done nothing more than commit a minor misdemeanor offense… and then turning around 180 degrees in the opposite direction and supporting letting violent, convicted felons out of prisons and jails and having their crimes erased simply because what they did was in support of a criminal in the WH!!!
So, give it a shot if you dare… please tell us HOW IS IT THAT YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF SUCH HIPICRITICAL AND NONSENSICAL ABUSE OF OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY?
PaulT says
Florida law enforcemen’s definition of ‘criminals’ includes traffic offenders and anyone traveling with them in a vehicle with a broken tail light. And FHP troopers have stated ‘If you look Hispanic we will follow you’.
As for whether the hastily thrown together swam located confinement camp is inhumane. Our MAGA friends seem to think lockking human beings in cages, inside tents where the lights are on 24hrs a day while denying them showers and feeding them bug infested food once a day is just like a fun camping trip to the Everglades.
Skibum says
There are a number of photos from above showing the entire grounds with the many various tents and “temporary” structures built along the airport taxiway in the Everglades swamp. From the moment that the so-called “Alligator Alcatraz” detention facility was announced by DeSantis, he flatly stated that the state was starting to move all of the pieces into place and that the facility would be up and running in just two weeks time. If a normal review and construction timeline had been followed, there is NO WAY any type of infrastructure to house immigration detainees with approved, permitted water, plumbing, electrical and sanitation to properly dispose of sewage could possibly have been accomplished, not to mention all of the environmental permits necessary to build anything in that environmentally sensitive area. It is undeniable that this was rushed, and more importantly that the state and federal authorities who have oversight to allow and permit such construction projects down there just turned their heads and ignored every code and every legal hurrdle in order to fastrack this process.
Nobody can tell me that everything there is up to code, that there are NO sanitation or safety concerns, that there are adequate fire safety precautions and plans in effect in the event of an emergency in that extremely remote location, not to mention the ever present hazard mitigation process that should have preceeded this to address hurricane damage.
We all know how dangerous it is, how foolish it is for anyone to decide to live in mobile homes or “trailers” anywhere in Florida because they are always deemed to be unsafe during a hurricane, especially in the southern part of Florida where the danger of hurricanes is more prevalent. So how in the world can the governor, or the federal government for that matter, be allowed to build “temporary” tent confinement structures in the swampy Everglades and confine hundreds of immigrant detainees in chain link cage like secure enclosures inside these tents, especially right now during hurricane season? It not only makes no sense except for the purpose of intimidation and intentional cruelty, but even more importantly from the standpoint of how human beings are supposed to be humanely treated when incarcerated, this facility is a danger to their very lives by being locked up in such a desolate place… as well as the lives of those officers and other staff who are assigned to work there!
As far as I can determine, there is not even one positive aspect of siting a detainment facility there, but there are many, many negatives that would have, and SHOULD have precluded such a horrible decision if proper vetting, permitting and environmental reviews had first been undertaken.
Rob says
I don’t hear and Senators or any of Congress talking about the conditions of our service members. Living in barracks or on a navy vessel is far worse than this. These are ileagals who are leaching off every tax paying citizen. Come in the right way . And work for everything you deserve. No free ride. There leader Joe Biden opened the door for the trash to come in. Now the trash is being dumped back over the fence. Guess the Dems like to live in the trash they created.
R.S. says
It’s amazing how many people think that these people are correctly placed there without judicial review or proper investigations. But then, I suppose that many Germans believed that Hitler was just a law-and-order dude who cleaned up the country of all the bad people. It’s another instance of human, all too human!
Land of no turn signals says says
So sad, they should be held at the Hilton until deported and enjoy the buffet every night.Yes they are criminals that ‘s why they are called illegal aliens.They can head back to the homeland if they want and take the family they made with them,then can come in legally.
Ray W, says
Does every FlaglerLive reader recognize that Greg, when he claims that inmates are complaining about 83-degree heat, is laundering a lie?
Inmates are complaining that heat levels inside Florida prisons can approach as high as 100 degrees in summertime, with little or no ventilation. Temperatures at that level induce heat exhaustion, heat prostration, and should such conditions last long enough, they can lead to physical injury, organ damage, or at worse death.
Perhaps one day people like Greg will recognize that spreading disinformation is not a virtue, that lie laundering is not a virtue, that our founding fathers knew that there would always exist in every society people like Greg and that those who would spread falsehoods as he does were best described as “pestilential” to the proposed Constitutional form of government they had created.
But Greg’s comment does, by inference, raise an interesting issue.
Under the law, there are crimes involving moral turpitude and other crimes that don’t. Moral turpitude has been an amorphous definition from its inception, and it has changed over the years.
Today, Florida cases define all felonies as crimes as acts of moral turpitude. But not all misdemeanors fit that definition. Filing a false police report is a crime involving an act of moral turpitude. Writing a bad check involves a crime of moral turpitude, as the act involves fraud, which is an act of dishonesty. Larceny involves a crime of moral turpitude, as the taking of another’s property is an act that involves dishonesty.
I hope FlaglerLive readers are sensing a trend. Dishonesty is at the heart of the concept of moral turpitude.
I looked to legaldictionary.com for guidance.
In what I consider a coincidence to the subject matter of this article, in 1891, our nation’s first immigration statute contained a reference to the concept of moral turpitude.
That first immigration statute required applicants to list any crimes that they had been convicted of in their native country.
If the immigrant admitted to having committed a crime deemed as one involving an act of moral turpitude, the immigrant would be turned away.
If the immigrant admitted to committing a crime that did not involve an act of moral turpitude, he or she might still be admitted into the country.
But that first statute did not offer a definition of what constituted moral turpitude. In time, moral turpitude came to be defined as “conduct that shocks the public sensibilities, and is contrary to the rules of morality and duties owed between two people or a person and society.”
But the idea of moral turpitude is not limited solely to the arena of immigration.
“In a legal sense, moral turpitude affects a wide range of activities, some of which are unlawful, and some of which are not. In many areas, conduct of moral turpitude may be used to determine the honesty or trustworthiness of a candidate for office, and applicant for certain types of job, and witnesses at trial.”
Regarding the last of the three concepts listed above, witnesses at trial, in Florida criminal trials, after the close of testimony and before closing argument, every Florida juror is told that he or she can disregard some or all of any witness’ testimony if it has been shown that the witness has been convicted of either a felony or a misdemeanor that involves dishonesty or false statement, i.e. an act of moral turpitude. I have read and heard this particular instruction perhaps hundreds of times.
In essence, every Florida juror in a criminal trial is told that he or she does not have to disregard the witness’ testimony, but he or she is given authority to disregard it should the issue become relevant to their deliberations.
Legaldictionary.com holds that moral turpitude originated in the 15th century, derived from the Latin “turpitido”, which meant vile or base.
Legaldictionary.com defines moral turpitude as”
1. Conduct that is believed to be contrary to community standards of honesty, good morals, or justice.
Make of this what you will.
Me?
There is a sickness upon the land, and it isn’t immigration. The sickness is an effort by many to rewrite our community standards for the meaning of moral turpitude.
Under this diseased version of community, lie laundering is no longer a “pestilence” to us all as, to some, it is now a virtue.
Our Vice President once told a reporter that if it took him lying to get the press talking about Haitian immigrants who, in reality, were not eating pets, then he said that he would continue to lie. Our Vice President was not just lying to excite his base to the point that they would willingly launder his lies; he was trying to rewrite the community standards of honesty, good morals, and justice.
When our president repeatedly tells people at his rallies that gasoline is selling at a price point below $2 per gallon in three states, he is not just lying in hopes that his followers will launder the lie, he is trying to rewrite the community standards of honesty, good morals, and justice.
Trying to redefine the definition of moral turpitude is, in and of itself, a dishonest, immoral, and unjust act.
There is a rule of statutory construction that goes as follows (paraphrased):
The legislature is presumed to have known what it was doing when it wrote the statute at issue.
Using this rule of statutory construction as a guide, it is presumed that the federal legislature knew what it was doing when it chose to describe crossing the border as an “improper entry”; it is presumed that the federal legislature knew what it was doing when it classified improper entry as a minor misdemeanor offense; and, it is presumed that the legislature knew what it was doing when it elected to exclude the crime of improper entry from the class of crimes defined as involving moral turpitude.
Long ago, I responded to Ed P’s original comments on the quantity of crude oil under American soil not because I disagreed with his interpretation of the facts, but because what he wrote was false. But I thought at the time that he was capable of so much better.
At first, Ed P. reacted to my comments by insisting he was right. Then, out of indignation, he accused me of disinformation. Then, he started calling me names. Not once during his initial responses did Ed P. wonder whether he was wrong.
Finally, he checked for himself and then admitted that what he had initially claimed was not accurate. I appreciate his honesty.
This process repeated itself a number of times on other inaccurate claims.
But perhaps an epiphany occurred to Ed P. He decided to start checking things out before he typed a comment. While I still disagree with some of his points today, I seldom respond to what he is commenting about. I appreciate his new efforts. The quality of his commenting has significantly improved.
I have written this many times. I seek quality conservative voices on the FlaglerLive site. Well-reasoned perspectives of any stripe help us all. A helpful viewpoint that differs from mine, to me, is an act of virtue.
But lying never helps, it can never be a virtuous act. Lie laundering never helps. Spreading disinformation never helps. Spreading misinformation never helps.
In most of my comments, I lay out my arguments in a particular form.
First, I list my source.
Then I structure a fact pattern using quotes and relying on the reporter(s) and the sources they cite.
Then I ask everyone to agree or disagree for themselves about the fact pattern.
Then I set out my own perspective, often in the form of questions. I know that my perspective might be wrong, might be incomplete, might be less accurate than it could be. And I keep looking for better sources.
Any FlaglerLive commenter can just say things to just say them. Yes, such comments are often of questionable worth. As my mother would sometimes say during speeches televised live into my childhood home: “He’s just talking to hear his head roar.”
I thank her for the legacy of her assessment.
I will always want well-reasoned voices of all kinds, based on the strict exercise of intellectual rigor. I will continue to oppose the vengeful among us, the liars among us, the lie launderers among us.
joe says
@GetALife—“It was the illegals who “illegally” crossed our borders, and hence, that’s a CRIME. ”
Fact check: Being in the country without proper documentation is a CIVIL offense, not a criminal one – therefore, not a crime.
Sherry says
Absolutely sick, depraved and inhumane!!! Simply because they haven’t executed anyone. . . yet. . . does not mean it isn’t a damned “Concentration Camp”!!! Hate filled Maga comments about the Waldorf Astoria. . . may you despicable people reap the hatred you are sowing!!!
Jake from state farm says
@Debbra Coffee — Are you referring to the immigration bill that President Biden claimed was essential to stop the unchecked flow of people crossing the border illegally? The same bill that, apparently, wasn’t necessary when President Trump was in office and managed to drastically reduce illegal border crossings without it?
If Trump was able to achieve stronger border control through executive action and policy enforcement, then what does it say about the current administration’s true priorities? It seems like the issue isn’t about needing new legislation — it’s about whether the leadership is willing to enforce the laws already in place. That raises a serious question: is the problem really a lack of tools, or a lack of will?
To those here lamenting “inhumane conditions” and repeating the talking points of Debbie Wasserman Schultz — let’s take a step back.
Oh and I thought WWIII was supposed to have started weeks ago? I have been sitting here waiting for the end of the world because I am sure Flagler will be taking a direct hit.
Please stop with the fear mongering and doom and gloom.
You’re the same group that bought into the media narrative (with a few exceptions like FlaglerLive and Pierre’s two minutes on the radio) that Joe Biden was competent, fully in charge, and capable of leading the country effectively. You believed — or at least pretended to believe — that Kamala Harris was a serious contender, with a real chance to win over the American people.
Now, as the consequences of these decisions become harder to ignore, it’s convenient to shift focus and blame everyone but the people actually responsible. Maybe it’s time to reckon with the fact that you were misled — not by facts or performance, but by partisan spin and wishful thinking.
Big Mike says
Maybe the person who wrote the banner headlines should know what a “prison” is. Prison refers to a confinement facility for convicted felons sentenced to more than one year of imprisonment. “Alligator Alcatraz” is not a prison. It’s a facility for detaining migrants, not for housing convicted criminals. The facility is primarily funded by FEMA’s Shelter and Services Program, which is designed to help communities sheltering migrants, not the Bureau of Prisons. The facility is designed to hold immigrants who are awaiting the outcome of their immigration proceedings or deportation, NOT for serving time for convictions and sentencing for a specific sentence of time. Sorry to bring light and some truth the the left.
Pierre Tristam says
Big Mike’s Brave New World.
BillC says
To quote a typical MAGA sentiment: “the whole idea is to make AA so uninviting the illegals will self deport rather than chance a visit there.” Translation- make conditions worse here than in the murderous drug cartel controlled countries and the terror from which these people flee for their lives. Sadistic cruelty is the goal and MAGA is proud of it.
If it wasn’t for American demand for drugs there would be no ‘border problem’. 70% of the guns in Mexico come from the US.
Skibum says
Big Mike, your fairytale description of the detention facility doesn’t pass the straight face test. Your travelguide review of Hotel Everglades apparently forgot to include the sunbathing patio, the bikes in the recreation area for use by guests to exercise around the grounds and take in the scenic beauty of the area and the extraordinary wildlife viewing opportunities that migrant guests have while waiting for an opportunity to helicopter out at some point to Miami International Airport when their relaxed stay has completed. Nor does it mention the five course meals, the extensive wine list or the attached day spa for soothing back rubs for all those sore muscles that need tending to after guests have taken their daily nature walks.
Get read, dude! There are no detention facilities anywhere in the U.S. that are being run by FEMA! Sure, the drumph administration might certainly be sucking up critical emergency management funds that are needed for disaster response and unethically funneling that money allocated by Congress to lock up immigrants instead of helping people recover from heartbreaking disasters such as are happening in many states right now including Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and elsewhere. You seem happy that those dollars are now ripped out of the federal disaster program, probably because it is not YOUR family that is in dire need of the help and assistance of the federal government disaster programs at this point in time.
Are you sitting there reading this and laughing at the indifference, the callousness, the cruelty of the federal government and drumph’s incompetent sycophants who are happily cutting disaster assistance and using those necessary dollars to lock up people in cages? Wow, another humanitarian of the year nominee… NOT!
Bo Peep says
Contrary to some of what is written in these comments crossing the border illegally is punishable as a felony not a misdemeanor. However, Biden did tell them they were welcome but alas we now know that he was a vegetable when he said it.
JC says
Jake from state farm says: “Now, as the consequences of these decisions become harder to ignore, it’s convenient to shift focus and blame everyone but the people actually responsible. Maybe it’s time to reckon with the fact that you were misled — not by facts or performance, but by partisan spin and wishful thinking.”
I have no dog in this fight but the user above when reviewing their previous posts does the same thing he is claiming another user is doing. The difference is that his posts are moistly conservative partisan spin and also wishful thinking. Someone does not have social awareness that they are being hypocritical.
Laurel says
Just the sign alone stating, “Alligator Alcatraz” shows the lack of sophistication I would expect from elected leaders.
Pogo: I know it’s really hard to believe, but I do screw up on occasion! 🙂 However, I am open to correction, and appreciate it. Thank you! 😁
Sherry says
@big mike. . . OK, if it’s such a great place why don’t you volunteer to spend just 24 hours there to prove your point? Come on “big man” with that “big mouth”. . . you can do it! NO? Why not?
OK then, post a link to “credible facts” proving that it’s not such a bad place to be at all. Maggots are a delicacy in big mike’s world, right?
Regardless of “who” built that “HELL HOLE”, it is “UN-AMERICAN” and “INHUMANE”!!!
Each and every one of you who supports such a thing should suffer 10 times worse than you are wishing on others. Karma is waiting for you!
Big Mike says
Thank you for allowing my opposing post getting through “moderation”. Opposing viewpoints may not fit the narrative, but are part of a healthy discussion.
Ray W, says
This is just a thought exercise.
In my 30 or so years of practicing both prosecution and criminal defense law, I attended hundreds of first appearances in many different counties. From the beginning, prosecutors, including me, would offer time served plea offers, plus costs and perhaps fines or probation, to defendants standing in front of a judge who had been in jail 24 hours or so or less.
Disorderly conduct, disorderly intoxication, public intoxication, public affray, trespass after warning (7-11s and other convenience stores and laundromats), open container, possession of alcohol under 21, indecent exposure (of a woman’s breasts amidst a crowd of onlookers) and many other similar minor misdemeanor offenses might bring an immediate plea offer, plea acceptance, and sentence. Within a few hours, booking would complete the process, and the defendant would leave the jail.
Indeed, one of my favorite stories about Bike Week and First Appearance over all my years in the system occurred during funeral services for Judge Norton Josephson. One of his golfing buddies eulogized the good man (disclaimer here: in 1971, before he became a judge and when I was 14, he employed me as a busboy in the Shrimp House, which he was running as the executor of the estate of the owner who had died). The golfing buddies told synagogue attendees, including me, about “Nortie” once sentencing a woman who had been charged with Bike Week indecent exposure to time served, plus a $50 fine. She protested, saying that she had exposed only one breast. According to his golfing buddy, Judge Josephine responded: Okay, $25 fine.
But there are other ways to handle minor misdemeanors. During the peak of Bike Week and Spring Break in Daytona Beach, a tent complex called Fort Crow was erected each year for several years in a parking lot behind the Civic Center; it was set up to handle the many hundreds of people arrested each day for all kinds of offenses. Prosecutors were assigned in shifts to the tent complex, equipped with a stack of what was called “one-day PTI” forms. They would interview those who had been arrested for a minor offense. Some would then be offered time served, plus the payment of a set police department cost of investigation and a separate set of state attorney cost of prosecution, if they would agree to sign a promise to not be arrested again while in town. Once the costs were paid, the inmate would be released unless he or she was too drunk to be safely released. Many arrests a day might be handled in this manner. None of those whose cases were handled in this manner ever had to appear in a courtroom unless they were rearrested. None of them were formally charged with a crime. A signature, a promise, and the payment of costs sufficed.
Few of these quickly handled misdemeanor crimes, to my understanding, involved acts of moral turpitude.
Why can’t we handle “improper entry” in the same manner? Any immigrant who has been in the country without documentation, say for more than a year, could go to an office, either ICE or Customs, turn themselves in, go before a magistrate the next morning at first appearances, enter a plea to the minor misdemeanor offense of improper entry, receive a sentence of time served, and pay a fine. Double jeopardy would then prohibit the immigrant from ever being prosecuted again for improper entry. Problem solved.
The gullible among us could no longer twist what is in fact a minor crime into something bigger; they could no longer type in all-caps that it is “A CRIME” to be in the country without documentation. There would be no further reason to deport these, because they had been honest in trying to settle their offense. There would be no need to attempt to fix our broken legislative scheme that requires an undocumented immigrant to self-deport to their home country and wait two years before applying to reenter the country through documented means. With waiting lists being several years long or more, it might be as many as 10 years before they could return to their families, which seems draconian for someone who merely improperly entered the country. The punishment could actually fit the crime.
Is that minor offense of improper entry any worse than a woman exposing one breast in front of a jeering crowd of onlookers who were not harmed by her act, as many or most of the jeering crowd had been hoping she would respond in that way to their jeers.
I characterize the offense of indecent exposure this way because I am an old broken-down motorcycle racer. For years throughout the 80s and early 90s, I traveled the AMA road-racing circuit as a crew chief and reserve rider on an endurance racing team, which travels included many trips to the old Loudon track in New Hampshire.
Perhaps as many as 50,000 or so people would jam into the grandstands and into the infield in those days. During races, roars would commonly cross the track between the stands opposite to the pits, but it wasn’t because of action on the track. Women were baring breasts over and over again in different parts of the stands and infield. Race goers would rush over to get closer to the exhibition. Rarely did women bare breasts in the pits, as special credentials kept the crowds out of the pits. One year, as I recall (it might have been two consecutive years), as I entered the track on the way to the pits, I saw bare-chested women standing atop a box truck parked at the side of the entry road; they were donning t-shirts that they were selling for $20 a pop, a significant sum back then. Buyers standing below them would flash a $20 bill and they would take off the shirt and drop it to the buyer. Men sitting in the back of the truck collected the money. The women would then don another shirt picked out of boxes. They were selling shirts about as fast as they could don and then disrobe. “Animal Hill”, rising high above the rear of the Loudon pits, was appropriately named for the various acts displayed day and night to all.
Why would improper entry ever be considered more serious than this behavior? We need immigrants in their millions to fill the difficult jobs few disabled Americans who qualify for Medicaid would likely ever take. From a study reported in the news, 13% of people on Medicaid have three or more serious disabilities. Many are old, but not old enough to qualify for Medicare. 38% are children. 70% of Medicaid recipients are already working. Just how many disabled people are able to pick watermelons or tomatoes or lettuce or cabbage day after day under the heat of a ruthless Florida summer sun? Was it a fever-induced dream for a Trump administration official to say that we have plenty of disabled Americans physically capable enough to replace the young undocumented immigrant watermelon pickers the administration is deporting?
Ray W, says
I erred in my comment about Judge Josephson. I must have transposed Josephine Davidson, whom my father greatly admired and whom I met but barely knew, in my mind with Judge Josephson when I typed Judge Josephine into the comment.
Oh, well.
Ed P says
Ray W,
Your logic of handling “improper entry” is truly baffling especially coming from you.
How can we compare a woman flashing adult men to illegal border crossings?
Am I to believe both are similar, victimless adult fun? True that both actions are wrong and both have laws and penalties for the offense. However, punishment is quite different because each has different effects on society.
Illegal entry carries lots of baggage. The 4 year open border debacle stressed out resources in multiple sectors of society. From housing, medical care, unlicensed drivers, school over crowding, security, and on and on. It is not a victimless crime. It’s not.
Then you refuse to accept the reality of how do we support theses millions of “new comers” as they age and do not have retirement benefits or social security and Medicare.
Do we assume the need to exploit this group as low educated, shit job qualified, will be the responsibility of our children to deal with in 30-50 years? That’s supposed to justify the short term need to fill those jobs?
It’s financially impossible to wave a magic wand and grant amnesty. Once the left accepts what the truth that immigration is absolutely necessary,( everyone agrees) as long as it’s an organized, pragmatic system. It must bring in people who want to be “part” of the United States and add to our resource pool. We have millions here that we cannot verify their birthdate, name, or even their country of original. The flood of illegal migrants was just too vast. Their intentions are unknown. There was little if any vetting.
The reality is the problem exists and deportations will continue. To suggest otherwise is not only myopic, but grossly unfair to our children and grandchildren. Many of which already believe the “baby boomers” stole their American Dream.
Ray W, says
Thank you, Bo Peep, for allowing me the opportunity to correct your inaccurate comment.
It is, indeed, a misdemeanor under 8 U.S. Code, Section 1325, to improperly enter the country a first time without documentation, with a potential incarcerative sentence of up to six months.
If after an undocumented immigrant is convicted of the misdemeanor offense of improper entry and deported, he or she then reenters the country a second time without documentation, the second improper crossing is reclassified as a felony offense, with a potential incarcerative sentence of up to two years.
I don’t want FlaglerLive readers to be misled by Bo Peep, however vengeful her intentions.
Ray W, says
It’s okay, Ed P. You have baffled yourself so many times on the FlaglerLive site by arguing inaccurate positions, you should be used to being baffled by now. You actually infer in this comment that the undocumented might be stealing the economic future from our children.
Study after study shows that immigration, documented and undocumented, carries more economic benefits to us all than it does economic detractions. And, yes, Ed P., I haven’t forgotten your comment on the two economic studies that show otherwise. Yes, two economists were paid to produce a study in which only two economic factors were to be studied. When their findings were published, they were both approached by reporters. One refused to be interviewed. The other agreed to an interview, during which he said that he knew that he was being hired to produce a limited economic report. When shown other studies that incorporated multiple additional economic perspectives, he told the reporter that his study was accurate for what it was, but he also said that the other more comprehensive studies were more complete than his.
My position is straightforward.
Fed Chair Powell is on record as saying that it is still possible for the American economy to outgrow the debt, but there may soon come a time when it becomes impossible for that to happen. Powell’s position means that we need productivity growth to exceed the inflation rate for decades. This can best be assured by careful monitoring of the economy and maximizing the number of jobs that are created, which happens to be the Fed’s mandate from Congress.
In Powell’s reasoning, if the inflation rate can be kept at the target level of 2% for the long term, and if GDP growth can be kept at 3% or more for the long term, we could by sheer growth slowly lower the ratio of our debt to our GDP to a more manageable level, but his idea also requires that we bring the deficit in line. And we can’t bring the deficit in line unless productivity growth provides enough additional tax revenue into the Treasury to reduce the deficit or we raise taxes, or both.
The best way to ensure consistent GDP growth of that level is to provide business owners with enough bodies for them to grow their businesses when they need to grow them. Simple productivity gains from technological improvements alone is only half the argument. When I repeatedly write that we have needed immigrants in their millions, I am channeling Fed Chair Powell. I am not just saying it to say it.
Study after study shows the negative impact of a declining work force on a national economy. Japan is a good example, as is Korea.
The Russian economy is close to collapse. Its unemployment rate has been as low as 2.1% in the last year, though it is now at 2.5%. Inflation runs rampant in many sectors of the economy. The official inflation rate is claimed to be around 10%, but many economists believe it to be around 20%.
The Russian central fed has set the lending rate at 20%. Bank loans carry interest rates of a much higher level. Russia has a declining population, and it recently kicked out hundreds of thousands of Tajiks after a terrorist attack blamed on Tajiks. Hundreds of thousands of deaths, plus many more wounded, have taken some of the most productive laborers out of the labor pool. Hundreds of thousands of the best educated of the young Russian population have fled the country to avoid the war.
According to a Wall Street Journal article from late last year, milkmaids in Russia were commanding salaries consistent with IT personnel, simply because there weren’t enough milkmaids and the nation needed butter, cheese and milk. Butter prices had risen so high that a wave of dairy store robberies prompted owners to put butter under lock and key. Yes, people were entering dairy stores and scooping up as much butter as they could hold and running out with it. Potato prices are up over 150% in the last year.
Many European countries face population declines greater than ours, and their economies are somewhat stagnant, too.
Has it been lost on you, Ed P., that since the onset of the pandemic our economy has significantly outperformed every other developed economy in the world? When will it dawn on you that the major difference between our economy and those of the rest of the developed world is that we have had an ample supply of labor throughout the recovery from the pandemic sufficient to meet business needs and they haven’t?
Yes, I agree with you that it would be better if we had all along accepted more immigrants into the country each year through programs that would allow us to better vet them, but Congress has known of this problem for 30 years and done nothing.
The last major immigration law rewrite occurred, as I recall, in 1996. We have had at any time since that time millions of undocumented immigrants in the country who could have been more productive had they been offered a pathway to citizenship. It wouldn’t now be such a massive enterprise, as you correctly put it, if Congress had acted long ago. But it didn’t.
As for the comparison to nudity at a racetrack, you just don’t get it and perhaps you never will. We as a nation tolerate all kinds of minor misdemeanor offenses, and we have done so for decades. In these cases, a minor punishment, if any at all, fits the crime. But if an undocumented immigrant commits the minor misdemeanor offense of improper entry, he or she is twisted from what they really are into being a part of an invasion, and he or she is then said to be vermin who need to be crushed. So sayeth our president, but not the law. In no way can it be said that the punishment of snatching people off the street and deporting them without court oversight fits the crime, unless the immigrant has committed certain other misdemeanors or any felony while here.
In reality, in every jurisdiction throughout the nation, minor criminal offenses are commonly handled at first appearances, often with sentences of time served, plus costs. But should some undocumented immigrant who has no other legal violation on his or her record than improper entry be snatched off the street, there is a chance that he or she will be flown to Eritrea or to El Salvador to be imprisoned in a land not of his or her birth without a court appearance, much less a trial.
The political twisting of the truth needs to be stopped.
Laurel says
Ray W: The bare breasted women didn’t pick our vegetables or hang our drywall. I would give the immigrants more leeway in that argument. Ed P seems to think bearing breasts to sell tee shirts is adult behavior. I see it as immature foolishness. Alligator Alcatraz is equal to immature brats pulling the wings off flies and getting rewarded for it.
It’s not a good comment on our society that this brattish behavior actually is rewarded by some.
Ed P says
Ray W ,
Summary according to you….
Illegal border crossing should be a minor infraction similar to public nudity.
We can outgrow the debt without reducing spending, just balance inflation and GDP.
The economic stress/ burden caused by illegals on resources or future generations is nonsense and hasn’t cost taxpayers a dime. In fact, nothing is being spent.
And finally, all these people will be super in their golden years not costing future generations anything. They will be fine and self sufficient in retirement. No societal burden.
Think I got now….
So, we need more non English speaking, low educated, minimum wage talent to fix the entire situation?
Dang, I just didn’t understand.