Palm Coast government is moving toward relaxing prohibitions on commercial vehicles parked in residential driveways while still maintaining relatively strict regulations.
In sum, small work trucks and vans typically used for services such as air conditioning, painting, pest control, plumbing and the like will be allowed to park in driveways, uncovered. So will trucks with racks, as long as the racks are modest and part of the truck’s tools. Only one truck would be allowed in a driveway.
Vehicles within the allowable size and passenger vehicles with commercial messages will also be allowed to keep their messages uncovered. Those messages will not be policed.
Larger commercial vehicles, including box trucks like dry cleaning vehicles, passenger vans, small and large trailer trucks, actual trailers of any kind, limousines or taxis, and of course dump trucks or larger commercial vehicles will continue to be prohibited.
Based on a discussion at Tuesday’s Palm Coast City Council workshop, the proposed measure, which would be up for a vote later this month or early in October, has the support of Mayor Mike Norris and council members Ty Miller and Theresa Pontieri. The initiative was originally proposed by Pontieri. Council member Dave Sullivan said he will oppose the measure no matter what. Council member Charles Gambaro was skeptical about the proposal but did not show his hand.
“This is a good middle ground here. This has been kind of an issue for a very long time,” Miller said. “It’s not allowing these large vehicles in driveways, but it is allowing kind of the working class to do their job and go home.”
There is also a benefit to the Code Enforcement division: commercial vehicle enforcement and swale parking enforcement are among the division’s top offenses. Not having to cite for a certain class of commercial vehicles would lighten code enforcement’s workload.
“How much will this change of complexity or the look of the city of Palm Coast?” Gambaro asked. “It’s not what happens here in the next year or two. How does the city of Palm Coast look 20 years from now?”
Gambaro was also curious about loosening language allowances. “Just for example. Let’s say Ty Miller was announcing that he had a strip club business, and parked that van next to me, let’s use it as an example, with whatever vulgarities or whatever, that would be allowed?” Gambaro asked.
“That’s correct,” Code Enforcement Manager Barbara Grossman said. “I cannot read the content. That’s per the Supreme Court,” Grossman said.
“Not that Ty would run that kind of a business,” Gambaro said. (He does not.)
The concern may be overstated: the city currently does not police the signs on anyone’s property. Those signs are not restricted to politics, nor to political seasons. Anyone can put a sign, commercial, political, ideological, religious or otherwise on a front lawn, facing the public right of way. The content may not be restricted by the city. The only thing the city may regulate is the location of the sign, the number of signs, and the size of the signs. The freedom has not provoked a rash of unseemly abuses.
The proposed allowance for “ladders or other attachments which do not exceed the height of the highest point on the vehicle by more than two feet or does not exceed the length of the vehicle’s length by more than two feet” drew the most concern, even from Pontieri. “This is more than I had bargained for when I suggested we relook at this code,” she said.
“If we allow vehicles that have a lot of things piled on top of them, we are going to see more swale parking,” Pontieri said. “I would get rid of these exceptions.” She has no problem with ladders. But she does with “other attachments,” especially if materials can be piled for up to 2 feet. And a line about attachments having to be “kept in a neat, clean and well-kept manner” worries her for its subjectivity. One worker’s neatness can be an OCD-addled neighbor’s abomination.
To Miller, the allowance is not for extraneous materials that would not be on the truck as it is driven, in compliance with road rules, around town.
Alternately, Pontieri said, commercial vehicles could be cited when in swales. “ I don’t want to not be business friendly. Obviously, that’s why I asked for us to readdress this code,” she said, “but I do feel that business owners need to be responsible for the way their employees, I guess, behave when they’re driving their businesses’ vehicles.”
Citations will go to the owner of the vehicle–the bearer of its registration–and not necessarily to its driver.
City Attorney Marcus Duffy cautioned: “I’m not going to be able to have language that doesn’t catch all.” And Sullivan will not change his mind: “I’ve thought about this a lot, and I’m not going to be in favor of any changes to the current regulation, no matter what,” he said. “I think it’s going to be too hard. You’re going to create a new code that will force just as many problems into the future, because people will be pushing the limits of whatever code we come up with,” Sullivan said.
Curiously, the item drew only two public comments. In the past, the proposal has drawn public reactions in droves, with passion on both sides. But as with the relaxing of outside paint colors, the longer the matter was discussed, the lesser the public response. That may yet change when the council votes on the proposal’s first reading.
john stove says
Stupid Stupid Stupid
Now we will have trucks with ladders and lumber hanging all over the rack and we will be calling Code Enforcement to measure the height of the stacked material.
Then, Mr. Plumber/Roofer/AC guy will decide to do some advance work in his/her driveway and pull some material off the truck and saw/weld or put together the items in the driveway, so basically a work area….again calling Code Enforcement.
Also, if you park your work truck in your driveway in Palm Coast and you come to work on my house in Palm Coast you better not even think of charging me a “Travel Fee” as you basically are in the same area.
DC says
According to the code, a 1.5 ton pickup truck is a commercial vehicle.
Mr. Reddington says
This would be a fair outcome to all.
Considering that many people are trades and commonly drive their work truck as their other vehicle.
Under no circumstances should a trailer or commercial vehicle be allowed like the ones in the not allowed pictures.
Good job City Council!
Deborah Coffey says
Just what we need. In Toscana, we’ve got a newly painted bright ORANGE house. This is a lesson on how to devalue neighborhoods. What else can they do to cause us to lose our investments in our homes? Chickens?
Kevin says
Glad I live in an HOA, where none of this will be allowed.
Long-time resident says
There was a time, not too long ago, when Palm Coast was a community of the affluent. It was a very nice upscale community with 2 swimming pools: Belle Terre Swim & Racquet Club and Freida Zamba. Not only that, there were tennis courts where the likes of Andre Agassi came to play. The retirees moving here for the most part had money from retirement savings plus government pensions. It was a very happy community. It was upscale in every sense of the word. (What’s wrong with that?)
Now we have a Palm Coast City Council lead by Mike Norris, Theresa Pontiere, and the very weak personality, Ty Miller. These 3 are determined to speak to the masses of lower middle class residents who come to Palm Coast with no avenue for gainful employment and therefore have to start a “business” to survive financially. These are the people crying about the lack of affordable housing. These are the people crying about there being “no jobs”. These are the people crying nonstop about taxes. These are the people crying about the price of food.
Why any elected person would want to cater to people who can’t afford to live here is beyond me.
Why any elected person would want to take the City of Palm Coast from an affluent thriving community down into a place with garishly painted houses and work trucks parked in residential driveways is beyond me, I don’t know of any living entity that strives to continually go backwards and go lower. Except Palm Coast.
I don’t know anyone who consciously strives to go backwards into a lower socioeconomic class, yet this is exactly what this current city council is doing. First, its giving almost free reign to house colors (with a few caveats), now it’s parking all kinds of work vehicles in residential driveways. Usually trucks backed into the driveway. Do you think it’s going to end with this? No. Then the incessant loudmouths will want to park their boats in their driveways. Then it’ll be bigger work trucks and RVs. The loudmouths always win.
I’ve never experienced a town being in such a rush to destroy itself.
Think about this when it comes time to vote for Pontieri as she tries to move up the political ladder into county politics.
Here’s my warning: Sooner rather than later the affluent who remain here will get sick and tired of their neighborhoods being destroyed by turquoise, black, purple houses next-door to them with work trucks backed into driveways and masses of rentals with unkempt yards. Then all that’ll be left is the lower middle class who won’t be able to afford to live here and who won’t be able to afford the taxes to keep the community going.
All you have to do is drive down to Port Orange to see what’s happened to that community. If you’ve ever taken a sociology or psychology course in college, it’s inevitable that the people with money will end up moving out and the only people left are renters and people who can’t afford to leave. Just like every other place, it’ll become a cesspool of rentals and unkempt properties along with the never ending loudmouth complainers who always seem to get their way.
I feel sorrow for Palm Coast because it didn’t have to end up this way.
I’m ashamed I ever ascribed to being a Republican. I’m ashamed I ever belonged to the Flagler County Republican Executive Committee.
JC says
Long-time resident statement to me reads NIMBY 100% and is anti-working class folks. Gotcha
Knightmomoftwo says
WOW Long Time Resident, who are you to decide who is worthy to live in this so- called affluent community.
Dennis C Rathsam says
Ignorance is bliss… The wheel is not broken, so dont try to fix it! We all new the rules before we moved here! Let the cry babies move to Bunnell! Sick of this discusion all ready…. WHO,s the moron that keeps this crap going? Palm Coast is turning into a shit hole, code inforcement is like a 3 stooges comedy. Your not suppose to park in the streets over night, wheres code? wheres the sheriff? Do they real patroll the streets at night? If they do they must be blind! When I first moved to town 14 yrs ago. At 1:30am one morning a deputy rang my bell about a car I left in the street. He told me that the streets were too narrow, in case of an emergency. He was & still is right! GEEZ… Your all hellbent on turning P/C into Holly Hill, with shitty water & high taxes! How do you sleep at night!
Capt Bill Hanagan says
LOL @ long time resident if you had any real $$ when you moved down here from the rust belt you would have gone to Boca or at least Jupiter… spare us peasants the theatrics..
With some of your ample free time you may find it edifying to look into the psychological concept of Projection
JimboXYZ says
This is what the charter review committee was all about forming. Revoking the charter was dissolution, Amending the charter for it’s ordinances is not an outright dissolution of Palm Coast as a city to become unincorporated Flagler County. It even states in the charter how anything like this would happen. They’ll have to put it on the next ballot for the masses to approve by vote. And it may or not succeed in becoming new ordinance. That’s why the charter review committee was formed. Other topics ? They addressed the HOA-like for allowable paint colors for home exteriors. we shall see if the vote allows this to happen, whether the council would risk being sued for not placing this level of ordinance change on the ballot for voters to approve/disapprove. End of the day, Palm Coast as a city is State of FL corporation of governance. That means the State of FL’s laws apply & override City Ordinances & Laws.
https://library.municode.com/fl/palm_coast/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=CITY_PALM_COASTCH_ART._IXGEPR
https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0166/0166ContentsIndex.html&StatuteYear=2022&Title=%2D%3E2022%2D%3EChapter%20166
https://docs.palmcoastgov.com/council/charter.pdf
Karen says
I think previous businessmen “offenders” with trucks/vans in the driveway with their business sign on their vehicle should be reimbursed for the dollars they had to pay once upon a time ago.
Mark says
Now if they’d only work on letting campers, boats and trailers no closer than 10 feet of the road we might start looking like a city of 100,000+ and growing instead of what some think the city was supposed to look like stuck in the 70’s.
JC says
Dennis C Rathsam also hates working class people and is a fan of NIMBY. He is no different from the folks who are also NIMBY in California, which is a state he can’t stand. You can’t make this up folks.
ANON says
Palm Coast is a HOA.
Taxpayer says
Another great reason to vote these people out of office. No one is going to follow this now and let’s not forget you can paint your house pink now if you want.
Lee says
City code enforcement has allowed all these work vehicles in driveways & parking on grassy islands for the several years I’ve been here.
They only target certain neighborhoods & ignore others.
I have to laugh at the so call codes…
Wish they would do something about the swales now with all the New Duplex’s built with NO front yards as the entire fronts are driveways on my street. We had one day of hard rain, flooded the entire end of the road here again few weeks ago…nothing is done yet with shallow Swales and your allowing more vehicles in driveways & grass areas instead of fixing the over building of Duplex’s to close together & no drainage.
Dennis C Rathsam says
Captain Jack & J.C….NIMBY my ass! When I came to P/C I bought 3 houses! One to live in, a duplex, to put my daughter through UF, & the other for my other daughter. I have since sold the duplex. pd & 117k sold it for $ 405k I still own the 2 homes on Luther Dr, & I bought the lot next door, so the animals had a place to hide, I feed my deer daily! We moved here because of the rules & regulations!!!!! Capt, you go to Bocca, or Jupiter! Ill spend my money where I want! I retired at age 57. So don’t lecture me!
Long-time resident replies to Hanagan,JC, and Knight says
To “Capt Bill Hanagan”: First, you don’t know when and where I moved from. However, it’s easier to jump to conclusions because something in my comment touched a nerve. Maybe you don’t like being called “working class”. By the way, lived in BOCA before moving to Palm Coast. Boca Raton is where I originated. Never lived “up north” or in the “rust belt”. So how’s that for projection? Look in the mirror. I’m a lifelong Floridian. Moved from BOCA because it was becoming a hell hole of construction and bumper to bumper traffic, all the signs I see in Palm Coast now. Started my college education at Florida Atlantic University in BOCA (while working full-time by the way). So would you care to retract your comment, or are you going to continue the bullying?
To “JC”: NIMBY is now being used to demean and bully anyone who actually dares to make any type of comment against the onslaught of destruction of wildlife habitats, wildlife in general, nonstop construction and common decency towards man. Just like my comment above to “Capt Bill Hanagan”, something touched a nerve when you read my comment. Look in the mirror baby. It you don’t like being referred to as “working class”, do something about it. I worked like a dog 7 days a week most of my life. Started my first business in my 20s. Paid ALL my student loans without bellyaching about it. I worked my way out of “working class” and don’t choose to be surrounded by Holly Hill neighborhoods. I see you’ve made other bullying comments towards others on this feed. Why so sensitive about “working class”?
To “Knightmotheroftwo”: It’s okay to be “working class”. I just don’t choose to be around it any longer. Again, another very touchy person ready to pounce on someone for expressing their opinion. Your true colors are showing. Another jump on a comment bully.
Bottom line here is that heaven forbid anyone make a comment on this website that doesn’t align with the current bullying mentality. Palm Coast is full of bullies these days. I’m sure I’ll hear more anger and hatred.
tulip says
Good going council people! (not) Houses close together and commercial vehicles in driveways, which would wind up in the street because people need to get in and out of garages and would be blocked, especially on weekends when the trucks are there all day. I do not think all the fancy colored trucks and signs should be allowed either. Now it will also look like a carnival. Look out your windows or stand in your front yeard and picture a variety of trucks clogging everything up. Also, there are familys with more than two cars, where do the the cars park if the driveway has trucks in it. This is a bad idea.
I understand there is a space where commercial vehicles can park for a fee. Why not just charge a VERY MINIMUM fee instead of a lot like the owners of the vehicles say it is. Maybe then the service trucks, etc could eliminate the rip off prices they charge to drive to our homes because they wouldn’t have to pay high parking lot fees. In some cases you could get a shuttle van to take you to the airport for less than the service people charge to drive a few miles to a house! JMO
Pogo says
@Finally
… the Grey Poupon shortage is explained. Oh, the humanity!
JC says
Dennis C Rathsam: Rich you said don’t lecture me when you are trying to make a lecture over my comment to you. Half of your comments here at FlaglerLive are mostly just you “Screaming” on your keyboard with the usual Left-Wing Progressives = bad and Right-Wing Republicans = good copy/paste comments with your using tons of “!” and spelling errors with your post history. Sorry, but your position is ultra NIMBY and is part of the problem. Nobody gives a shit on how many homes you own and that you retired early. Also the “problems” Palm Coast have is not even close to the bigger cities problems. You are an angry boomer that need to learn to touch grass. You keep complaining about FlaglerLive but you keep posting here, seems like you are an ultra toxic person in real life.
Long-time resident: You are the one who are against the working class, it seems that you can’t read. Hate to break your bubble, but Palm Coast was not for the affluent before it came a city and after it came a city. The people who came to Palm Coast were retirees with limited incomes but had enough money in savings to buy a cheap house, not for the affluent. The affluent retirees I know who retired in Northeast Florida moved to St. Johns County, not here. Now with the steep increases in housing prices, we are finally getting more affluent retirees. If you got a problem with the folks of Holly Hill, I think the problem is you. No one cares about how much you work your butt off like any other boomer story that’s here on FlaglerLive. T
Roger Williams says
There is little enforcement. We’re in the S Section and there have been commercial vehicles parked in driveways overnight for years. Cars continuously parked in the swales RVs and boats in driveways gor extended periods.
This lack of enforcement falls on the “Leaders” (and I use the term in jest) our elected officials. It’s typical that they make promises yet fail to follow through yo the detriment if the citizens.
I’m glad that some of them are running for other office for then perhaps we’ll be rid of their ineptness. Hopefully they’ll lose those races or others will suffer as we do now.
Cindy Jameson says
This is crazy. You can’t post a “Garage Sale” sign on a pole or on a city sign I see code enforcement taking them down all the time but yet a basketball hoop is allow to be tied to a city sign in the middle of the street on an island and when the city comes to cut the grass they go around it. SMH…… I have no issues with working class residents, I AM a working class resident and so is my husband a working class resident in fact he is a tradesmen. The problem I have is what it’s going to turn into in a year. Whatever rules and regulations the city assigns this GREAT idea will be taken advantage of and then you won’t be able to do anything about it. Example, a home on my street (corner) started out with a pickup truck with a hitch on the back of it in the driveway, then came another pickup truck none of which had a sign on it just a plain ole truck, then came the trailer, then came the concrete pump then came the two boats and the larger of the boat parked on the swale around the corner.
With all due respect to us working residents I hope the city will post Code Enforcement jobs so this won’t happen and not only that but maybe it will open up some jobs for the folks who LIVE in Palm Coast who are loosing their Boston Whaler jobs!!!! You don’t need a CDL to apply for a City Code Enforcement job.
Taxpayer says
The City of PC changes their mind like the wind and doesn’t address issues they need to like traffic, empty store fronts, over building with house values falling. Before long there will be the huge trucks a long with pink houses and overgrown lawns. But you can be sure the City of PC won’t want to hear a word of your concerns.
Would be nice if they got their priorities straight for the taxpayers.