The Palm Coast City Council is not excited about allowing chickens in city backyards. But it may enact a strictly limited pilot program involving a few households, or set aside some public land for a community garden where residents could tend their chickens. There’s also the possibility that backyard chickens could be on the 2024 ballot as a referendum.
“The push for backyard chickens is not new. It’s been around Central Florida for at least 10 years,” Code Enforcement Manager Barbara Grossman told the council Tuesday.
It’s also been gaining new adherents, particularly as the price of eggs rose sharply a few months ago, as did the price of food, though both have been coming down significantly. “The city of Orlando conducted a pilot program into backyard chickens, and it was successful, so they codified regulations,” Grossman said. The city was ready to issue up to 100 permits in certain city districts. Not all permits have been used up.
In Palm Coast last spring, Eric Olsen established the “Palm Coast Chicken Alliance” political action committee in an effort to get a measure on the 2024 ballot. “We believe that keeping chickens in one’s backyard can be an environmentally sustainable and ethical way to source fresh eggs and promote local food production,” the committee’s website states. It has no reported contributions so far.
Council member Theresa Pontieri is championing the proposal. “I’m an advocate of: if you own your home and it’s not a nuisance or you’re not conducting anything illegal, that you should have great discretion as to what occurs in your home,” Pontieri said. “This is a step in that direction. And being that a municipality like Orlando does it, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that Palm Coast is considering this. There’s incredible benefits to backyard chicken. So I really hope that council looks closely at this and that we have a robust discussion on how we can regulate it in a responsible way.”
The discussion was robust. The push back against the proposal was almost as robust.
The council had directed the administration to study the matter and report back, as it did Tuesday. The city analyzed eight communities that allow back-yard chickens outside of homeowner associations. (A chart summarizing the findings includes Flagler Beach and Vero Beach, where chickens are not allowed.) All allow it in residential zones, though most also require a minimum lot size of some sort and limit the allowance to four female chickens–no roosters. Most require permitting when chickens are housed in backyards. Some require a class with University of Florida extension agents. All forbid the commercialization, breeding or slaughter of backyard chickens. Only three have a manure-management requirement, only one regulates noise, and only one requires a permit.
Backyard chickens afford residents a measure of self-sufficiency. Chickens produce fresh, quality, steroid-free eggs. They help combat backyard pests. But they also draw more raccoons, coyotes, snakes and the like, and could potentially create unsanitary conditions. Chickens are also vulnerable to certain diseases, and they can be a nuisance to neighbors.
Rogue chickens can be a problem, adding burdens on animal control officers, so the consequences would fall on building, zoning and code enforcement officers, since the building department would have to permit chicken coops and code enforcement officers would have to follow-up on complaints.
The city’s code enforcement department has collected evidence of chickens in Palm Coast, what amounts to violations of current code, with sanitation issues, coops so low to the ground that they are invitations to predators, or to next-door dogs barking incessantly. “So there is a domino effect sometimes if you don’t know how to responsibly take care of chickens,” Grossman said.
Some coops are professionally built, and expensive (one image Grossman showed lists a $600 price), some are do-it-yourself.
But Pontieri discovered that there is little appetite on the council for the proposal, which may have little chance of success when both Council members Ed Danko and Nick Klufas, usually the council’s polar opposites, find themselves allied against it.
“My own personal feelings right now is this is not Mayberry RFD. This is a community of residential homes,” Danko said, preferring it to go on a ballot as a referendum (where its chances of success in a city of fussy retirees are dubious.) Alternately, he suggested using public property owned by the city to cede to a non-profit where people interested in having chickens could have a “community chicken garden.”
Council member Cathy Heighter is also opposed, calling backyard chickens “a nuisance” that would open the way for other animal husbandry, though only moments before that possibility had been essentially neutralized. “I don’t want to see farms in backyards,” she said.
Klufas recalled his experience in New York with 20 chickens and other animals on sizeable acreage. “It is a different area around here where you can’t have free range per se, but that’s not necessary for chickens to be happy and be successful,” he said. “With that being said I do not foresee just allowing chickens in the city of homes because I don’t think that’s something that would be overall beneficial.”
But he was open to a pilot program with “vigorous” regulations that would weed out people who are not entirely committed to having chickens. It would have to be “a very elaborate pilot program that is very rigid, gets rid of the vampire rules for code enforcement where they don’t have to invite you out to the backyard,” he said.
Danko is also looking for answers from the real estate community. “Wouldn’t allowing chickens and backyards increase the value of our properties or decline the values of our properties? And I think that’s something we need to think about.” (There is plenty of anecdotal evidence on the question–supporters say it doesn’t hurt property values, opponents say it does–but reliable evidence is scant.)
Palm Coast Mayor David Alfin, a Realtor, has horses, not chickens. He worried about opening the door to other animals populating backyards. “This is somewhat precedential, and are we willing to consider all of these animals as a group” as opposed to singling out chickens, he asked.
The existing ordinance needs some amendment to start with, Pontieri said. For example, the current ordinance doesn’t allow for rabbits. But there are plenty of rabbits running around in people’s homes and backyards. “We can certainly single out certain animals without it becoming a slippery slope,” Pontieri said. (The city had to deal with a “rabbit mill” in a house, Grossman noted, but that was a different issue.)
The administration gave the council three options. It could develop a pilot program. It could write an ordinance that would allow for backyard chickens. Or it would leave the code as is: no chickens. The council added two more: the community chicken-garden possibility, and the possibility of a referendum. But when the council discusses the matter again at an August meeting, it’ll only consider the pilot program and the community garden. Meanwhile, the administration will be responsible for crafting those proposals in concrete terms, while the city attorney will study the community garden approach, since it’s not a common one.
Alfin complimented Grossman for “a rather masterful but balanced presentation, and yet another example of listening to the public when they come in and talk, so the turnaround time on this has been quite, quite spectacular.”
Pontieri had to resign herself, for now, to a pilot program as the best hope for the initiative.
“With regards to the possibility of a nuisance, we’ve had a lot of fodder about Airbnbs in our city yet we still allow them,” Pontieri said. “So I think that we need to yes, recognize that anything can be a nuisance. I get emails and calls on barking dogs. So to to disallow a homeowner the responsibly have chickens because we’re afraid it could be a nuisance, I think is a slippery slope especially when we have ordinances in place to regulate other pets.”
Correcting the Record on “A Chicken in Every Pot”
It was a matter of time during the Palm Coast City Council’s discussion on backyard chickens before someone mentioned “a chicken in every pot,” at once one of the most famous phrases in American political history–and one of the most mis-attributed.
“Wasn’t that Harry Truman that said a chicken in every pot?” Mayor David Alfin asked at one point, as Council member Ed Danko was discussing the potential effect of backyard chickens on home values.
Danko began saying Herbert Hoover, then conceded that he did not remember. He was a bit closer to the truth than Alfin.
The phrase was mis-attributed by Democrats to Herbert Hoover, a Republican, because of a 1928 campaign flyer produced not by Hoover’s campaign, but by a political action committee called the Republican Business Men Inc. The flyer, written with the same flair for black-and-white exaggeration, boasts and smears, indeed referred to “Republican prosperity” building better homes, better roads, better jobs and so on. It claimed that Republican prosperity “put the proverbial ‘chicken in every pot.’ And a car in every backyard, to boot.”
The proverbial nature of the phrase goes back to King Henry IV of France, as celebrated for his phrasemaking as for his enlightened tolerance, who’d said: “I wish that there would not be a peasant so poor in all my realm who would not have a chicken in his pot every Sunday.”
The closest Hoover came to saying anything like it was toward the end of a very long Oct. 22, 1928 speech before 22,000 people at Madison Square Garden–a year and three days before the Great Crash–when he said: “Today there are almost nine automobiles for each ten families, where seven and a half years ago only enough automobiles were running to average less than four for each ten families. The slogan of progress is changing from the full dinner pail to the full garage.” Though it became one of his most famous lines, the New York Times did not quote it in its long article on the speech, leaving it to the full text transcript (back in the days when newspapers filled pages with speech transcripts) to carry the line, if readers got that far.
Four years later, Democrats would not let Republicans–or Hoover–live that phrase down, first by falsely attributing it to Hoover, then by repeating it derisively every chance Democrats got, starting with Democratic presidential hopeful Al Smith in 1928. Smith held up the Republican Business Men flyer without attributing its words to Hoover directly, but by 1932, Democrats had combined the garage and chicken imagery and were piling it all on Hoover.
They wouldn’t let go. John Kennedy in a 1960 campaign speech in Tennessee again falsely attributed the phrase to Hoover.
Andrea Palmieri says
Interesting so my neighbors should not have a chicken coop and 10 chickens in their backyard
The Sour Kraut says
With the tiny sized lots that have become common in Palm Coast, I can’t believe there would even be room for a chicken coup. Have anyone on the council SMELLED a chicken coup? If they had they certainly would not want one next door.
Atwp says
Chickens freaks eggs. Chickens fresh meat. The Repubs are not going for that, that would be too healthy for the people. Home grown fresh eggs will probably hurt the big chicken farms there by decreasing the money the Republicans will get for their party. Anything good for the people the Republicans are against. Anti abortion, anti African American Study in schools, high insurance premiums, anti people of color voting, cutting social security, Medicare and Medicaid they are for those things. No chickens in Palm Coast backyards anytime soon. Why vote for these anti help for people.
John C. says
The article is about chickens, not Republicans. If you don’t like Republicans move to NY, NJ, Ma, Ct, need I say more . They will welcome you with high taxes, poor roads, high crime, you would be right at home.
An actual Floridian says
Hey John, you don’t own Florida so stop acting like it. I was born here, in a swing state. If you like dictatorships maybe you should move to Russia or North Korea
Ron says
Chickens are for real you want chicken go to a fast food joint. Aldi. One dozen eggs 1.11 this past Sunday!!! Code enforcement ??? They can’t handle their work load now. Look around Palm Coast cars park. Trucks pared in their Front yard boats campers YOU. Name it . After living here for twenty years , my wife over 25 years. It used be be a great place to live.. now we have a new garbage company?? Look at the trash on the streets, It is disgusting we don’t need need chickens WHAT WE NEED is people to take pride in their homes front yard etc . Look around open your eyes I will get off the soapbox
TR says
Ron, what are you talking about. I drive the streets of Palm Coast (in all areas) on a daily bases and do not see what your describing in your comment. I have lived here since 1989 and I don’t see what you’re talking about. Oh before you tell me to open my eyes, they are open and they are open wide.
Stuart Tick says
I totally agree with you Ron. Just had 5 pine trees taken down, urban forestry approved it, s0 we have to put something back in, Crape Myrtles, so, my point is, we cannot put in Sabal Palms, we already have 6, but, only one of the Palms counts as a tree. lol. You can put in a sabal palm, if one does not exist, sabal palm is the Florida State Tree, leave that up to the City to f…k that one up. However, you can grow, vegetables in your front yard, chicken shit or what ever you want to call it, natures way of productive vegetation. Or go and waste your money, lowes, home depot trying to keep your vegetables alive. Jees, I grew up on a farm. WTFUP, Palm Coast, stop all the dam shit you do, about time to get and live in the real world. Anybody out there? Where can I get chicken gizzards from, seems like they have no gizzards when they come to life.
tulip says
It costs money to buy the chicks and then costs money to buy the feed for them to eat, also you have to get rid of the chicken poo, make sure they don’t get a disease and all the work it takes to clean the coup and supply water. Easier and cheaper to buy the eggs. No roosters should not be allowed because their loud crowing would wake the neighbors every morning at 6 or 7 every morning. Not appreciated
bob says
the sky will not fall
Old Guy says
Chicken coops and backyard bird feeders can draw rats. I learned this lesson the hard way when a rat nested up under my truck bed and caused over $4,000.00 dollars in damage to the vehicle electrical systems. Luckily insurance covered the repairs. That was the end of my decades of back yard bird feeders. Also, they had a chicken program at Old Kings School some years back that had to be shut down when the buildings became infested with rats.
Bill C says
Were they good rats or bad rats? (joke)
YankeeExPat says
I was considering getting instead getting a Wildebeest…….You know, for the milk, dung and horns
Denali says
Please tell me I did not just read an article about backyard chickens in Palm Coast, please! What’s next? Hog wollers and a couple of dairy cows? If I wanted to live around farm animals, I would move back to our farm up north. Chickens are filthy animals. 90% of these folks cannot take care of a gold fish and now they want chickens? OMG. Who is going to fed them, muck out the coops, gather the eggs, repair the coops, keep out the Lynx, fox, snakes and what-not and then doctor them when they get sick – ’cause Lord knows in this urban environment they will get sick. Regardless, it will not be the parents because they are too busy and little Johnny cannot be bothered to get his lazy butt outside to play baseball let alone do chicken chores. And Suzy will give them all cute names and cry her eyes out when one becomes a Saturday night fryer. Then there will be the “EGGS FOR SALE” signs in every other yard because people bought ten chickens and cannot eat that many eggs per day.
Sure, there are some responsible folks who will become wonderful examples of urban chicken ranchers but the majority will end up with a stinking, diseased mess (chicken poop in a Florida summer?) that will have the neighbors up in arms. Please do not even think about relying on Code Enforcement to lift a finger; they can hardly be bothered to do their jobs now.
This is full-fledged insanity. If somehow the city goes down this road there will need to be sizable bonds required for property /nuisance maintenance; a hefty permit fee and regular inspections by qualified persons to ensure the health of both the chickens and the public.
Good citizen says
Boy you people just love government intrusion into your lives. What happened to the days when your home was your castle, and property rights? Frankly, a deeded owner of a property should have the right to do as he wishes with or on his property, palm coast is not a “Stepford Wives” community.
Really, we have rules about our trash cans, rules about our air conditioning units, rules a bout what can be parked on our driveway, we have rules about boats on our properties, we have rules about trailers on our property, we have rules about how we maintain our lawns, we have rules about what colors we can paint our homes!
Do we really own our homes or does the City own our homes, because if it is the latter I will be happy to send the city the mortgage bill every month. People claim it will cause a nuisance, how is that different than a neighbors dog who barks incessantly?
Have you ever tried to get code enforcement to deal with a dog issue, they are powerless. This issue is not the dog or the chickens, it’s the owner of these animals who are the problem. These same people are the ones who allow their kids to grow up without supervision or guidance, as the parents have the mentality less than that of a child.
I have no issue with backyard urban farming so kind as chickens are not allowed to roam the neighborhood, and must be kept in a confined space. Just as dogs are required to be leashed. But you have people who disregard responsible ownership and allow their dogs to wonder freely. It not the animals, it the animals (people) who own them.
For those who wish to have every aspect of their property ownership regulated by some authority, why don’t you pony up the extra money and buy into a gated community where you will be regulated to death. As far as an open and unregulated community as Palm Coast should be.
It’s only a question of time before these community code enforcement board are challenged in court, and these municipalities learn what property rights are, they are all ileagal and unconstitutional.
TR says
IMO chickens allowed in residential backyards in PC is not a good idea. We have enough problems in my area with stray cats, and loose dogs. I do not want the smell from the chicken coops, nor do I want to wake up any morning and find that my neighbors chicken(s) got loose and the bobcat in my neighborhood killed it and left it in my yard. Someone wants chickens, let them by property out west or go buy a farm somewhere.
Lisa Says says
While some towns let you keep chickens on less than a 1/2 acre lot, that does not really allow enough distance, from neighbors for noise and ammonia smell. Having grown up in a rural area that would be entirely too close. Other things to consider, eagles, owls, hawks, and vultures can and will carry them away, or you can leave them out and hope for the best. Chickens are pretty much defenseless. Then there’s the raccoons, skunks, possums, rats, and snakes which all love eggs. Not to mention the snakes, dogs, coyotes, foxes, weasels, cats, bobcats, and even alligators will eat chickens and not just at night. You will probably also need an electric fence for the larger predators, though nothing will keep the snakes and rats out. Oh, and rats are bold! Day or night, makes no difference to them. Do you really want to attract these kinds of predators to your yard?
Jane says
I don’t think anyone should tell you you can or can’t have chickens in YOUR yard. I do nothing everyone should have a tightly manicured lawn either. This is a dumb rule I hate aesthetic rules for rules sake
Denali says
Chaos and anarchy in an urban environment – always a good mix. Next you will be yelling “FIRE” in a crowed theater.
Doug says
[Please comply with our comment policy. Thank you.–FL]
Why does almost every Yank who moves here have to reference New York in one way or another? Hence, Nick Klufas. Why did you ever leave if things were that good in New York? We don’t need your regulations here because everything was great until the significant exodus came to our beloved state. You did us no favors by moving here. None.
Direct says
Stop blaming others and those from up north, get the chip off your shoulder that is what’s wrong with this country. Let me guess you voted for Donald so that gives you the right to blame others.
RAW says
NO! NO! Chickens. Eggs are $1.95 a dozen at Dollar General and all you have to do is buy them…having been eating them for years…and still alive.
Jason says
I completely agree with you. If people want food they should be buying it from properly licensed, regulated, and most importantly TAXED businesses. The only reason these people want to grow their own food is because they want to destroy our democracy by forming a multi tier system of food production and robbing the government of tax revenues. We shouldn’t allow these people to eat food that isn’t regulated by the FDA and robs us of government control of the food supply. Not in our city!
Roy Longo says
I do not care if they allow chickens or not, but you are against it because the government will lose their egg money and the less eggs bought will somehow destroy our democracy? What?
Denali says
While I feel that chickens in Palm Coast is a bad (terrible) idea, your reasoning is way off base. We have a small farm in another state. Our rural mid-American farmer-type neighbors have dairy cows, beef cows, chickens and hogs. Many are raised for personal consumption with no interference from the government. They have fresh milk, butter and ICE CREAM, do not know anyone currently doing cheese. They butcher the beef cows and pigs. They sell a few eggs. Oh yeah, these same folks grow all kinds of veggies and fruit that is sold on the roadside in front of their houses under the shade of that huge silver maple that has been there 100 years. Many a farm kid supplemented his college education working the family veggie stand. Ever had corn fresh off the stalk? Didn’t think so. It beats the snot out of any two week old stuff you get at the grocery.
By the way, what we have now is a multi-tiered food supply system. People growing their own have made it a single tier system by cutting out the middle man.
How is raising your own food ‘destroying democracy’? I do not believe that I have seen any rends in the fabric of democracy created by someone growing their own food.
As for government control of the food supply – what is this? 1984 or Soylent Green? My Lord man, get a grip.
Pedantical says
Wow, so eggs are not taxed. Look at your grocery receipt next time and you’ll see that food items are not subject to sales tax. I can’t believe I have to explain this to an adult.
More importantly, “backyard-chickens” are not an agricultural operation and will not produce waste beyond what any other pet would produce in a yard. Many cities allow for the keeping of chickens in backyards, no roosters allowed.
I think what I am seeing here in the comments is a very classist response to a hobby many people enjoy. Keeping chickens is not akin to poverty and many people derive pleasure from growing their own vegetables as well, even though they can buy them cheaper at the store.
Chickens attract predators, chickens attract rats, and chickens will run wild in the streets- I rather enjoy the turkeys lurking wild around palm coast, we already have bears and bobcats spotted regularly, and rats are attracted to any kind of food left out, including the old lady who thought she was feeding her outside cat but it turned out she was just feeding rats.
Laurel says
Jason: You are joking, right?
harry m says
talk about dumb stuff , NO WAY ! we have bigger stuff to worry in this town then chickens , this not the country- its a city , what next roosters howling all night , will have people shooting at them at night , because they can’t get sleep , once you start one thing it will be another thing asking for cows for milk , when will it stop ?
Vincent A. Liguori says
Chickens! Totally Amazing! Code enforcement difficulties, swale and flooding problems, massive road repaving expenditures, traffic congestion, suppression of wildfire mitigation efforts, high crime, overnight swale parking, commercial signage vehicles parked in residential areas ,plethora of auto accidents, vacant lots with uncontrolled bush and tree growth in high home density areas, a rising tax burden on citizens, lack of common sense. The above problems are bad enough-so the solution is let’s make it worse. Selling your house-chickens next door-GOOD LUCK!
Fernando Melendez says
I see from reading all the comments that consensus tilts towards most of the residents not approving chickens in backyards. I have to agree that chickens have no place in our city. I understand it’s a land-use issue, counties and cities are responsible for regulating and enforcing backyard chickens. I can see this not going forward and can not understand why would any of our council members would champion this cause.
Karl says
Don’t fall for the rhetoric. This has nothing to do with chickens and is instead all about ensuring PoC are further discriminated against because PoC have been economically suppressed and cannot raise and/or grow their own food. This is just more white-supremacist ideals being wrapped in the cloth of magAT ideals and slogans. These people want a two tiered justice system, two tiered social system, two tiered school system, and now are trying to create a two tiered food system where they can avoid eating the big farm poison that the rest of us have no choice but to eat. No thanks!
Ah, Laying Hens says
The worlds most expensive way to get free eggs ever!
David S. says
Chicken poop who needs it except the mayor and city council they are not worth anything else.
oldtimer says
What’s next, goats? Then pot bellied pigs then …… Move to the country if you want livestock
cgm says
Being a PC resident who has a backyard neighbor who has a chicken coop I have to say no.
Nobody has told on them yet but its only a matter of time.
The hens made more noise than the roosters, all day long clucking around.
Chicken poop.
They also bring in other animals that want to eat them, raccoons, bobcats …etc
Dead eaten chicken in next store neighbors yard last week- can you say Bobcat!
Nephew Of Uncle Sam says
This Council can’t even figure out how to have a smooth transition to a new refuse hauler and recycling bins, I don’t think they can even handle a chicken ordinance now. The Pontieri statement “I’m an advocate of: if you own your home and it’s not a nuisance or you’re not conducting anything illegal, that you should have great discretion as to what occurs in your home,” then the Council needs to work on that. Example: stop stuffing money in the storage yards hands and let residents have boats and camper trailers less than 20 feet parked in their own driveway, longer if they have a larger driveway. If it’s in someone’s own backyard don’t come snooping around if no one is complaining and it’s behind a privacy fence. It’s a city of almost 100,000.
Mike says
Got a chuckle from all the chicken chatter!
Thought it was a little out of balance and sadly amusing that folks are quick to want to regulate with permits and training etc to have a chicken in your backyard. You want to go around carrying a handgun, no need for any of that permit, training or registration hassle. Just a thought.
Jay Tomm says
Why is this even a discussion? How many people in PC want to have chickens in their yards? If it was 100 people I think that would be a high number.
This seems again like a dumb PC thing that someone is getting kickbacks if approved.
Palm Coast Citizen says
Having a limit on chickens (no more than 2, for example), and regulating roosters (like, no roosters), chicken coop size, fence, etc. would be advantageous.
We lived on the west side and moved to PC only to learn my son wanted to raise a chicken for a school program, but couldn’t do it once we moved to Palm Coast. We weren’t “chicken ready,” anyway, but we’ll still gleefully blame Palm Coast! :)
Most people don’t want chickens. What we don’t want is chickens in the road, too many chickens, the smell, the noise. We can live with each other with reasonable code to allow for some chicken-ness. We can be reasonable yet not overly restrictive!
Laurel says
This is too funny! Palm Coast problems. Maybe people can make nice chicken nests out of Waste Pro bins.
Anyway, raising chickens is expensive. It’s not a cheap way to get eggs. Also, chickens make your dog bark? Shut your dog up! Shesh, people!
Tim says
Just adding some truth here, rental properties with multiple cars in swales and front yards, landlords collecting huge rents, poor landscape and exterior of rentals left unattended, property owners with poor landscape and exterior conditions including those that like living in the projects and could care less about those of us maintaining our properties, horse size dogs and yards covered with poop, the constant smell of weed in the air and dog poop while sitting in your evening lounge chair and then add chickens and livestock on postage size lots and it won’t smell like Cheeseburger’s in Paridise! Not to mention our property values.
Just the facts and nothing but the facts.
tulip says
I had a friend whose father raised chickens. It was time consuming and costly. You have to build a chicken coop with a roost because that’s what they do at night, a supply of water and food., have their wings clipped and it cost money to buy the chicks, which means about a year before you get eggs. In 2 or 3 years, the chickens stop laying and you have to either just keep them or kill them.also a few other things I have forgotten. Their food and scent attracts raccoons, rats and other vermin. The chicken poop has to be cleaned daily. If the city decides a person can have chickens, the city better make sure they have a permit and have the proper building and area for them to live and roost in. In actuality, it probably cost more to raise the chickens for the eggs than buy them, especially when the prices are dropping. I think too many people just build a fenced in area and throw the food and water in, they need to get educated first.