It was a Thursday evening last February. K.C., 14 years old, was being disagreeable around dinner time. Her father called her defiant. She described herself as merely sarcastic. As she continued to talk back, her father had her stand up. He grabbed her arm and spanked her once on her butt. The girl didn’t notice marks left on her butt, though there were marks on her arm. She called her older sister, who called her mother, who called the police.
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The parents of the 14 year old are divorced. The ex-wife filed an injunction against her ex-husband, charging domestic violence. Circuit Judge Karen Gievers of Tallahassee granted it, saying state law doesn’t make exceptions for parental discipline in case of domestic violence. State law defines domestic violence as meaning “any assault, aggravated assault, battery, aggravated battery, sexual assault, sexual battery, stalking, aggravated stalking, kidnapping, false imprisonment, or any criminal offense resulting in physical injury or death of one family or household member by another family or household member.”
The question was whether a single-smack spanking fit any of those definitions. Last week, a three-judge panel of the First District Court of Appeal in Tallahassee said no. Common law, the court ruled, recognizes a parent’s right to discipline his or her child in a “reasonable manner,” while corporal punishment “by a parent or legal custodian for disciplinary purposes does not in itself constitute abuse when it does not result in harm to the child.” One smack did not amount to abuse, the court ruled. But it left unsaid what would amount to abuse.
The court relied mostly on a 2002 precedent, a unanimous decision by the Florida Supreme Court, which found that parental rights did not have “absolute immunity” from charge abuse charges, but that a line could be drawn against child abuse charges as long as the force used was “reasonable” or “non-excessive.” In that case, a man was charged with aggravated child abuse by repeatedly hitting his girlfriend’s 8-year-old child with a belt. The court found the violence excessive, and the man’s conviction on a felony abuse charge was upheld.
“Courts and legislative bodies have repeatedly recognized the difficulty in delineating a precise line between permissible corporal punishment and prohibited child abuse,” the court said in 2002. “However, we conclude that this difficult task is principally a legislative function,better left to the Legislature. As the Fourth District has previously observed: ‘Cases like this should stand as a warning to those, parents and others alike, who quickly turn to corporal punishment as a solution to child discipline problems. It is apparent that there is a serious risk of ‘going too far’ every time physical punishment is administered.'”
“In the case under review, however,” the appeal court ruled regarding the February incident, “looking at the facts most favorable to K.C., we conclude that, as a matter of law, the father’s conduct constituted reasonable parental discipline and not domestic violence.”
The court did not make a distinction in the ages of victims being spanked. Studies have been divided on spanking, with some finding that spanking led children to be more antisocial, to lie, to cheat and to bully other children more, while others found that children would get in fewer fights. Researchers have routinely found that up to 90 percent of parents spanked their children at least occasionally, but pediatricians have cautioned against spanking children younger than 2 or spanking adolescents, in whom spanking could lead to aggression and dysfunction.
nina says
I think our country has gone too far in criminalizing parental discipline. Parents whose rebellious children threaten them with calling the police, can no longer discipline effectively. Occasionally it’s necessary to spank, and nothing else will work for some children. We are raising a generation of kids who don’t have respect for authority in school or at home, and it should be criminal to allow kids to grow up this way. Kids discover early on in our permissive society, that it’s OK to talk back to their parents or teachers. A kid needs to be told ‘No’. and there has to be consequences for disobedience and disrespect. These same children will grow into disrespectful, self-centered adults. How will they learn to obey laws if as kids they were taught there is no painful consequence for disobedience and rebellion? I think it’s cruel to raise children without discipline.
Pete V says
Physical abuse never gets goods results. I have 6 children and have never had to physically hit my kids to be obedient. I have had a great relationship with my kids, not perfect but still good. As all children do, the misbehave and when they did, and this is where most parents fail, you must address the first time it happens. You must pull the child to the side and speak to them firmly. Ask the child questions to see if the understand. Kids will respond to your words more so than spanking. After a while spanking get them knumb and they just dont feel physical pain, just emotional. If you as a parent allowed them to be disobedient at home, than you have yourself to blame when the do it in public.
Bob says
Pete,
Just be grateful you have children that resond to your kind of parenting. Six is quite a few to think you have a good “experimental group” to observe. But I will tell you, there are children who will not listen, who will not mind, and who will spit in your face when you try to talk to them. Swatting them once on the behind, not for pain, but to get their attention, is the only thing some children will respond to. I have never abused my children, but giving them a swat on the behind lets them know I am serious and has worked with my children.
William says
“there are children who will not listen, who will not mind, and who will spit in your face when you try to talk to them. Swatting them once on the behind, not for pain, but to get their attention, is the only thing some children will respond to’
Bob. That’s blatantly incorrect. No child REQUIRES physical pain to correct their behavior…even if studies reveal some benefits to physical discipline—NO STUDY ON THE PLANET ASSERTS THAT ANY ONE CHILD EVER REQUIRED/REQUIRES PHYSICAL PAIN TO CORRECT THEIR BEHAVIOR.
it is a quick and LAZY alternative to REAL parenting.
real parenting takes PATIENCE.
I cant believe people still justify the idea that having your child attach physical pain to misbehaving is a good thing.
My children attach negativity to misbehaving—you better believe—-but never do they think I will cross their boundaries and inflict pain on them merely for my own selfish desires. (because its a terrible lesson of boundaries as well)
the only time physical violence becomes necessary is when a parent cares more about the “good” behavior of their child more then their actual happiness and emotional well being.
it is selfish—all children misbehave—-you cannot stop this. Much of it is evolutionarily ingrained in them. Like testing boundaries. The only people who think their children need to be heavenly angels at all times are people who literally have no idea about the physiology nor psychology of a human child.
if you think you EVER NEED TO HARM A CHILD TO DISCIPLINE THEM—then you have already admitted being a terrible parent.
Jade says
I think you take your judgment of other parents a little too far. Remember that kids grow up engrained with what their parents teach them, so the adults here probably had the same type of discipline that they give to their own children. It’s unfair of you to judge people so harshly when I highly doubt you are mother of the year. I have spanked my son and afterwards felt so horrible about it I just decided to stop the chain. When I was younger I was abused. And though I always told myself one spank was no where near the abuse I received as a child, I have come to realize that my son doesn’t deserve to be put through what I went through and it’s not fair of me to make that the only option when he does something wrong.
Remember that your experience and life are not the only ones on this planet.
Jade says
Ha, I don’t look at dates… oh well
Xavier Smythe says
If you are so passive that you can’t bear the thought of spanking a child who is being a little sh@t then you should have used birth control. You aren’t parental material. Words only go so far with an unruly child and a good spanking usually wakes them up and makes them think about about the downside of being a little sh@t. Amen and hallelujah.
Neil S says
Libertarian rubbish, whether a child needs to be smacked to be disciplined is down to the nature of the child, some kids (most) don’t need this, you can reason with them and use alternatives to smacking, some kids (like me) needed to be physically chastised, if I knew all you were going to do was to try and discipline me via shaming, removal of privileges, enforcement of punitive activities I simply wouldn’t have stopped.
At school where physical punishments were allowed but were used only in extreme circumstances I was much worse behaved than at home where a swift clip round the earhole / smacked backside were handed out much more readily, it was the threat and fear of physical punishment that kept me in line.
If you take this option away and kids know it they know they can keep pushing, it’s the kids that act on that information that you need to apply the physical punishment to, the ones that heed the warnings it never has to come to this.
Last resort, but it must be an option…!
Mark says
you can’t paint with such a broad brush. as a child I was ferociously independent and surrounded by bad apples. both my parents were very good examples. my older brother was a perfect child and I was a rebellious middle child. one and only things that would cause me to give pause was the contemplation of corporal punishment. this was true in school and out of school. I was in the top 10% of my class, but I was afraid of nothing and wanted to try everything. had my parents not been firm with me and as a last resort, used corporal punishment, there’s no telling what would have become of me. I’m thankful for every spec and I got and wish I had gotten more. I might’ve gotten one twice a month, and needed one about twice a week at times. I dated a girl who never got spanked nor did her siblings; just like your kids Pete. but there are those of us who do need it.
harry says
That sounds and reads like someone with-out children, Spear the rod, Spoil the child..Its in the Bible, but again we in America give people that don’t know us or our children the right to make decision in telling us what to do with our own kids, and No one see anything wrong with this? wow!, Judges playing God, and yes we will have adults with no respect for law, or anything else, the Government is setting up, and breaking down Family’s, so they can keep the JAILS full, as well as there Pockets…
Cece says
In short, I agree. The occasional swat on the bottom is not abusive and is a completely acceptable form of discipline.
Drew says
My son was was just slapped in the face this evening and then slammed against the wall. The investigatnig Fort Lauderdale Officer stated that Florida law allows parents to hit their kids. My son was trying to wake his mother because my daighter had expressed interest in harming herself. The mother decided sleep was more improtant. My son began to yell at his mother and state that they need to talk. The mother rose from the bed, slapped her son then slammed him into the wall. She left marks on his neck and face. The officer said the physical violence was authorized under law and there was nothing he could do. The officer had NO regard for my daughter being in a state of potential suicide. He made no remark to my daughter wanting to kill herself. So now I wait in mystery. I was forced off the phone with my kids as the officer supposedly had this under control. Violence does not solve anything with kids. Neanderthals hit kids. When I ahve my kids I never have to hit them to get what I need accomplished. I have been a soldier for 21 years and have never had to hit one of my soldiers to get what I need them to do.
William says
also I forgot to add in the beginning a very important part:
physical discipline requires pain…if you aren’t inflicting pain on your child then it is pseudo-physical discipline—because it goes against the very definition of corporal punishment which is: “the deliberate infliction of pain as retribution for an offence, or for the purpose of disciplining or reforming”
However, my comment was a generalization—Bob—just in case some of it sounded like it was directed at you—it wasn’t.
I have no idea of your personal parenting skills—-but stand by the fact that even the swat on the butt is not a required parenting tactic.
In fact, the concept of “drug resistance” is very similar to physical discipline.. obviously the smack on the butt will not work forever—as children both mentally and physically build immunity (the mental being much more prominent—however if extreme force was used, the child would develop a callus—-which is the physical immune response to repeated friction or damage of the skin.)
meaning that only a person who uses physical discipline could be at risk for taking it “too far” as naturally you would NEED to increase the level of pain inflicted as time went on. In order to be consistent and further the goal of the original intention.
Kiana says
I think that hitting your child is wrong. If its illegal to hit an adult, it should be illegal to hit a child. If they did wrong, talk to them. If they continue, ground them, or take something away from them. The more they do it, the longer you should ground them. Physical harm isn’t teaching them anything but: “if someone does something wrong, or gives you attitude, hit them.” I thing hitting your child isn’t a good way to discipline your child at all.
Sarah says
I have 2 kids I like to think I am a great mom we spank our son then we tell him why he got a spanking and he Is so we’ll behaved he is not scared of us we give him love along with discipline there is a difference between beating a child and a spanking we don’t spank when we are mad and we have never left bruises parenting is about a balance but there are too many kids that back talk and dress like they belong on a street corner and its a shame!!!
Benjamin Sarver says
sometimes you have to spank them, tough love. yes I did get my share of spankings and it made me a better person. for that perfect parent who never will spank their child .. talk to you in twenty years!! I agree with (Bob and Nina) Discipline is very necessary in this day and time. So is LOVE i see it every time i go to a public place to shop, kids acting out saying things to parents in public that should NEVER be said by a child… Lack of discipline is a hugely bad thing…
Benjamin E. Sarver says
sometimes you have to spank them, tough love. yes I did get my share of spankings and it made me a better person. for that perfect parent who never will spank their child .. talk to you in twenty years!! I agree with (Bob and Nina) Discipline is very necessary in this day and time. So is LOVE i see it every time i go to a public place to shop, kids acting out saying things to parents in public that should NEVER be said by a child… Lack of discipline is a hugely bad thing… Think about this, child vs hot stove.. you can tell them not to touch. but if they do it anyway when you are not looking, that fire/ heat sometimes is the best teacher.
Stevie says
To those saying that spanking is not necessary, let me ask you this. What happens when you as an adult are told to stop by authorities and you refuse? That’s right, you get tazed. What happens when you break the law and attack an official for repremanding you? That’s right you can get shot. So I ask you, isn’t it important that these children understand that there are physical consquences to their actions? My children get spankings, and they will continue to get them as long as they are rebeliouss and disrespectful, as these are the only things that I use spanking for. Any other infraction gets their freedoms removed (playing outside, video games, television, spending the night anywhere, etc.) I am not raising criminals. I will not see my children in jail, and if by some chance I do, there they will stay until their time has been served. I am not going to allow my kids to think that they are above the law. It is as simple as that!
katie semore says
A child who doesn’t respond to verbal discipline will not respond to one swat to the behind. Really, this is ludicrous to believe that it makes the difference.
Take away the 14 year old’s phone and see her straighten up right away.
When we hit a child to make them do what we want we only teach them that hitting is how to get people to do what we want.
charlie says
When I was a kid my wardens, I mean parents were true believers in corporal punishment. They believed in hit first and ask questions later. Everyone of my older siblings were out of the house by age 18. I was the exception. I was out on my seventeenth birthday. I was in the U.S ARMY trained disciplined and on my way to VIETNAM By my 18 th birthday. I was an only son and did not have to go to vietnam but with the way I was raised I volunteered to go and I think I really wanted to die. I came home ok and married the love of my life. We had three children and raising them was not a joy ride, we did however did it without abuse. People should understand that abusing your children is for a coward. Being hit all the just breeds hate and mistrust, my father passed way in July and I didn’t even attend his funeral, I am 63 and still have hatred for the way I was raised.
Sarah E says
I don’t abuse my kids but I do spank them! There is a difference my daughter doesn’t listen if I put her in the corner (trust me I have tried) but me popping her butt makes her think twice. My son is 4 and I hardly ever spank him because he learned right from wrong so I really don’t need to spank him and he does not live in fear he is well adjusted, smart, and he knows he is loved so much as does my daughter. I think unless there are marks left on your kids they need to let the parents do the parenting and worry about more pressing issues.
Sarah E says
Oh and this country needs Jesus! so if the government would start seeking Gods will for America we would see some serious change in the world. We need God fearing parents that are willing to stand up and raise their children in a Godly manner. I know these days Christianity is a thing of the past but God is still the same even if America has changed! So until then America is just gonna keep on getting worse! We all just need to pray for America.
Chloe says
I don’t agree. Their are other ways to punish a child without hitting them…………if they are so bad, perhaps you should think of counseling……….
I also don’t have any respect for any mother who lets their live in boyfriend, fiancé or just a boyfriend hit her children…………the men ought to try that with another man…………
Do we have to wait until more children die or are so emotionally damaged to have the laws changed?????
The Dude says
Kids these days are soft, defiant, irresponsible have this insane (parent awareded) sense of self entitlement and most of all LAZY! I’m not an advocate of killing ur kids, but at some point a good ass kicking is what some kids need. Also, mothers of America, take your tit out the kids mouth and let em grow up! Seems like “counseling” is the norm now a days. Talk is cheap. I’m not religious but i agree, “Spare the rod, spoil the child.” Parents and teachers have had our hands handcuffed for far too long and the result is what you see everyday all day, lazy, arrogant, ignorant kids. Our future leaders! Unbelievable. You people that claim that hitting a child is never an option and that talking to them is the best option are taking the cowards way out of doing your job to raise a child. Talk is cheap and laziness breeds stupidity.