Palm Coast government is getting ready to build a 30,000 square foot YMCA on a 12-acre city-owned parcel on Central Avenue in Town Center, next to what used to be the Palm Coast Arts Foundation’s stage and a 5-acre parcel that had been dedicated to arts and culture. The combined 17 acres had previously been leased to the foundation for arts and culture.
The Legislature has appropriated $8 million for the YMCA in the last two years. Absent a veto by Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has yet to sign off on this year’s budget–his signature is expected at the beginning of June–the city-built, YMCA-run facility is all but ready to be designed. That would take a year. If enough funds are secured–a big if: $8 million may not cover the cost of a 30,000 square foot facility–construction would follow, and would itself take a year to a year and a half.
Plans at the moment do not include a pool, Jason DeLorenzo, chief of staff in Palm Coast government, said in a lengthy interview detailing the city’s plans, as a pool would add significant cost. “We don’t believe we have enough money to build a pool with the $8 million that we have now,” he said, “but we have discussed with the YMCA a strategy to for them to invest in the pool.” That would be part of a YMCA capital campaign. “Both parties are very interested in having a pool. We just have to figure out how to get there.” The pool would be part of a second phase of construction.
Pools are a signature of Y facilities. In Palm Coast, a pool would have a disproportionate benefit in a community chronically short of pools, with the school district’s Belle Terre Swim and Racquet Club now closed to general public access, the city’s own pool having its own size limitations, and local swimming teams and organizations struggling for training time. One such conflict was the main topic of discussion at this week’s ASchool Board meeting. (See: “School Board Appears Clueless as Unexpected Conflict Over Fair Use Emerges at Belle Terre Swim Club.”) The last time Palm Coast had a Y was in 2011, when it was run out of what is now AdventHealth Palm Coast–without a pool.
Plans for a Palm Coast YMCA were announced two years ago, when the city and the Volusia-Flagler YMCA pursued a first round of state funding. (See: “Volusia-Flagler YMCA and Mayor Alfin in Big Push to Open Y in Palm Coast in About 2 Years.”) The city has since considered locating the YMCA on city-owned land at the entrance of Town Center on Bulldog Drive. But the Y was concerned about that parcel’s proximity to Planet Fitness in a strip mall across the street, which could potentially affect the Y’s bottom line: it’s still a business, which the city will not subsidize past the land grant and state construction funds.
So among the different locations that were considered, the one next to the arts site proved most attractive, especially with several existing and coming apartment complexes and housing developments within walking distance, DeLorenzo said. That had always been the intention of Town Center: to make it as walkable as possible.
But for Sam Perkovich, who for two decades led the Palm Coast Arts Foundation and is now a director on the board of United We Art, the non-profit overseeing the hoped-for development of the city’s arts district in Town Center, the city’s plan signals a direction conflicting with previous pledges, among them to devote that location–the entire location–to the arts. DeLorenzo presented the plan for a YMCA to the United We Art board earlier this month, with Council member Nick Klufas among the board members. There was some surprise around the table, and disapproval from Perkovich, who would later tell Mayor David Alfin that she was reserving her blessing for the plan.
“I’m all for the YMCA. I don’t want anyone to think I’m not. I think that’s great. The fact that it can be in Town Center is a great draw,” Perkovich said. “I’m all for that. But I’m not for it on that site. Plain and simple. And I indicated that to the mayor that if that’s what he was looking for, he wasn’t going to get that for me.”
To Perkovich, the city is not taking the arts seriously, even with plans to hire someone in the parks and recreations department to devote 15 hours to arts and culture (Perkovich says that’s a minute amount of time compared with the demand of such a job, if conducted appropriately), with the siting of the Y emblematic of the city’s attitude. Part of the Y plans would include playing fields that would be in back of the existing arts parcel–fields that would be removed once the arts center is built. Perkovich says she’s been in real estate long enough to know that once such things are in place, they’re not going to be removed. DeLorenzo says that wouldn’t be the case, especially since the fields would be built on land the city will have graded appropriately for a future parking lot–on land that can’t be used for that purpose now. So it would be a bridge to an improvement for the arts center.
Last year a city-hired consultant presented the concept of a $73 million, 76,000 square foot arts and culture center that would eventually hold up to 230 events a year at the location of the arts foundation stage. The city council embraced the idea, which clearly had support from the arts community, but was more reserved about its financial viability at the moment, even as arts advocate urged the city to start small, just put a roof over the existing stage, which would not be costly, and nurture the location with events. None of that has happened since. (See: “Palm Coast Council Embraces Idea of $73 Million Events Venue in Town Center’s Arts District.”)
DeLorenzo considers Perkovich’s fears unfounded. “We have reserved the area for the event center. The performing arts center doesn’t seem to be gaining any traction,” he said. “The city doesn’t have the funding. I think the estimate was $70 million dollars, or something really big number for this community to support. That doesn’t mean a performing arts center can’t happen in the future. But this site has been sitting empty, primarily empty for 20 years and this opportunity came to fruition. It’s a really good opportunity for the community as a whole, not just for youths. There’s a big community benefit to having the Y in the community, and then if they are able to raise the funds to build the pool, that’s another need in the community as well. So as city administration, we need to balance the needs of the community, and we felt we should not pass on this opportunity. I don’t think this crowds out the arts.”
He noted a different location feasible for an arts center location on private land, owned by Allete Properties, a 6-acre parcel at the corner of Park Street and Town Center Boulevard. Perkovich had been part of those conversations. She said the parcel wouldn’t have sufficient space for parking.
All that has Perkovich questioning the city’s commitments to the arts and the viability even of United We Art. “Does anybody in this city and the council and everybody, do they take the arts serious? I’m not really willing to put in much more work after 20 years without without some indication that there’s support at least for the roof and having events on that site,” she said, referring to the existing site. “I’m very skeptical that it can move forward.”
Alfin, the mayor, has other ideas. “I’m going to speak to Sam about a potential collaborative effort to fulfill her dream as well as perhaps the city and the county’s dream for a YMCA. So I’m going to see if there’s a finish line that works for everyone.”
Bill Lyon says
We old folks need a 365-days-a-year pool available to strengthen our old bones and backs in pool therapy! For a community with as many retirees as we have here, it is not wise for the YMCA to even think about a YMCA building without a pool and the staff to lead us oldie-but-goodies in exercise water aerobics. The School system, which was given a pool by ITT for the use of the community has now shut out the community. Not sure what that original contract stated but wonder if the school board is complying with the wishes of ITT when the pool was given to the School System.
Mark says
From day one this has been wrong from every angle. Tax dollars paying for Christian values through mind, body and spirit along with City land put up for said Cristian Organization. Asking them to set up shop here is one thing providing money is another of which they will most likely come back when construction costs go up asking for more tax dollars.
Chris says
More more more build build build, doesn’t matter what, just so we can look like Jacksonville
Frank Nogueira says
A YMCA without a pool is like a garden without plants. That’s where many kids learn how to swim.
Yes! we need a YMCA with pool in Palm Coast.
Joe D says
I’m also going to be a bit concerned about the final outcome of having a limited YMCA next to a designated ART Center, along with the ART program director’s reservations.
Palm Coast ( and Flagler County in general) have GENERALLY only paid LIP SERVICE and minimal financial contribution to prioritizing and supporting the ARTS (Visual Art/Digital Art/ Music/ Performance). The immediate RETURN on INVESTMENT isn’t as tangible or as immediate as investing in a Real Estate or Business project.
The ARTS stimulate creativity, and exploring the world around us in INTERESTING and UNUSUAL ways. As the adoptive father of a Graphic/Digital Artist, a touring musician, and a musical production technician I can see first hand how much of a CHALLENGE it is to make a CAREER using my youngest son’s considerable TALENTS to support himself. But he LOVES what he does, and is able to find groups of other who share his talents and love of the ARTS.
As a person with no REAL biological ARTISTIC talents (except school band programs), I am in AWE of those that can express their vision of the world with their own individual creativity.
However (except for some highly respected, mostly DEAD famous artists), a career in the ARTS doesn’t seem to command the same level of respect and FINANCIAL reward, as someone excelling in Business/Finance/or Sciences.
Hopefully the new YMCA and the ART programs can Co-exist in Palm Coast, so that students (and the ADULT Community in general) can benefit from the advantages of BOTH programs!
I’ll guess we’ll see….
Paul kulla says
Your politicians are all narcissist and it’s sad
dave says
Trees, what trees, an acre here an acre there, it’s only a acre.
Celia Pugliese says
Does Mr. Alfin and Council care about affected residents opposition? Joanne Clarke
Whippoorwill Dr
• 1 day ago •
Just saw this from Flagler Live- YMCA construction to begin. BUT NO POOL!!??
What the ??
Where is the pool that Alfin promised 2 years ago when he talked about the Y at several town hall and personal meetings?!
This town needs a fully loaded aquatic center
8
27
Karen V N.
Pine Lakes
1d
Unacceptable. We were promised a new pool !!!!!
6
Karen V N.
Pine Lakes
•
1d
Karen
I’m voting everyone out on Election Day. I’m tired of being lied to 😡😡😡!!!!
7
John Coffey
R sections
1d
What value does the name YMCA bring to this building. Don’t think I ever saw one without a pool. This is simply something we don’t need. Get the complex from the school district, they obviously don’t want. It. We could order a new with the politicians names on it and save $12M which could used for traffic improvements on Old Kings to fix the problems these same fools created.
Name on it
9
celia pugliese
•
Palm Harbor-Clubhouse
John
I agree we do not need a YM CA without a pool in these oven cooking summers Mr Alfin is very wrong involving the YMCA for this! I begged them to get the Belle Terre and swim club off the schools hands instead…but nope they do not do it. 12 public acres of public (us) owned land wasted!(edited)
Joanne Clarke
Author
•
Whippoorwill Dr
1d
For some, the pool is the only exercise they can do. Not everyone benefits from the pickle ball , golf, bike paths or sports complexes. The Belle Terre pool is too small and only 3 lap lanes. Visit Frieda Zamba on a weekend and see how full it is with die hard swimmers and families. This community will soon have 1800+ people with ONE community pool. No we all don’t have a pool in our yard . Yes we need an aquatic center
Isaac Wellborn
•
Karas Trail
•
1d
They just want a means of getting more taxes out of us.
Donna M.
•
Grand Haven
•
Edited 1d
Where does this leave the pc theatrical arts center that has been in the making for what??? Two decades???
Not speaking about putting aside a community pool … I’m speaking spacial perspective … I can wrap my mind around how much land is there with all the apartments in place and what’s been approved yet to be built? D(edite
Elizabeth Cutler
•
Palm Coast C-Section
We need to replace our waste treatment plant and we are building this? This is WASTEFUL. Why are we building this while taxes go up and roads are in disrepair? Send everyone to Plane Fitness at city expense and it would cost peanuts.(edited)
Robin F.
•
Cypress Knolls
I wasn’t aware that they were going forward with the art center being that the original plan for Town Center has deviated so off course. What was to be a well-planned out Town Center seems to be hodgepodge at this point. Would be so nice to have a art and Cultural Center in Town Center.(edited)
3
jon m.
•
23h
Need a pool that is handicap accessible, so handicap can exercise in the water. Others can exercise, swim and in the summer a pool for the kids to play in
4
Midge B
•
Cypress Knoll
•
17h
jon
thank you, I agree. I’m handicap and I can’t swim anywhere
1
celia pugliese
•
Palm Harbor-Clubhouse
jon
The Belle Terre pool has a lift and everything needed for the handicap now. and used by them and by closing it they are denying them the amenity used for over 25 years. I gave them the Central Florida Legal team that provides free attorney for the needy in iur communities and they have not called them yet: https://www.clsmf.org/ I have a person advised to use them and she won her case without cost to her. They love class actions defending the needy or handicap. Won’t even need to make it to court! Just a good letter from the free legal attorney will resolve it. They School Board 3 may not want to face ADA or AARP or defense for the needy families who’s kids are denied to use the pool now by the 3.(edited)
John Coffey
•
R sections
The YMCA is a non profit organization, area directors average salary is $160 k per year not including benefits. Membership fees go from $39 per month to $72 per month. What is the relationship between the city and the Y? Are we building another something just to give it way? Will they be employees of the city. There needs to be a lot more explanation of this relationship, ownership before we commit to satisfying the few who claim they need exercise but won’t spend money on their own pool. Aren’t all the new developments including pools and gyms?(edited)
Joanne Clarke
Author
•
Whippoorwill Dr
•
18h
John
so why don’t pickle ball players make their own back yard court then? Why did the town just make that huge “ sports” complex mostly for pickle ball – just an example . A pool costs approx 100k, a year to build . Most are just soaking pools and not for lap swimmers. There are numerous numerous people who use the pool daily, not a “ few” .
And no.. many of the new developments do not have a pool or facilities., I have inquired. .
celia pugliese
•
Palm Harbor-Clubhouse
John
John you are so right as most the time YMCA expensive! What gives the right to the city council to give up the use of 12 acres of our public land for a private facility without a pool. We have enough paid Gyms around don’t we? But not enough pool in this community as a matter of fact now only one…shame.(edited)
Robert Savino
•
Walker/Waters
20h
Much as I hate to say this, they need to acquire many more business establishments to start moving the tax burden away from the homeowners.
2
Dona Finnerty
Palm Coast
18h
But why no pool? Hmmmm I thought that’s what YMCA is all about🙄
2
Joanne Clarke
Author
Whippoorwill Dr
17h
Dona
thank you! So did I and many others who have been discussing this with Mayor Alfin for 2 yrs!
And it’s not just for “ old folks to exercise”. It’s for the entire community, schools, swim teams etc .
3
celia pugliese
•
Palm Harbor-Clubhouse
41m
Joanne
Over 2 years of discussion going no were with Mr. Alfin then stop this YMCA project as is no pool!
John Coffey
R sections
13h
Schools have their own facility, they are in the process of throwing everyone else out of the facility. I wish people would keep themselves update on what’s going on with the elected officials.
Joanne Clarke
Author
Whippoorwill Dr
13h
John
if you are talking about the Belle Terre pool for schools it too small for meets and used only for training.. as advised by Director of The Fluid Team . And I am well aware of the promises of elected official Mayor Alfin who has been advising for 2 yrs now that a Y was being considered with a full aquatic center , along with several hundred people who signed petitions and have been to city and private meetings
celia pugliese
•
Palm Harbor-Clubhouse
40m
Joanne
Sam;; or nit is the only one available and crowded as is and the 3 and Alfin agreeing they close it! To come up with tis YMCA and no pool? No way.
MargieLee Lane
Rymfire/Rae
11h
I hope they change their minds about a pool
Susan Weber
Flagler Beach
2h
A pool would be awesome have never seen a ymca with out a pool
Susan Weber
Flagler Beach
2h
Kids and adults need to learn how to swim
Rick Sabol
Grand Haven
46m
Every YMCA I ever went to had a lap pool. I traveled all over the country when I was a swimmer swimming miles and they all had a pool and opened no latter then 6:00 am.
celia pugliese
•
Palm Harbor-Clubhouse
Atten council meeting and let Mayor Alfin know our disgust for his decision on our 12 acres without the taxpayers approval.
celia pugliese
My Two Cents says
A new YMCA should have multiple pools: Indoor, outdoor, for families, for seniors only with lanes and area for exercises.
How does one even conceptualize building a new YMCA without at least one pool?
Stupidity is the new enlightenment these days.
Bobbie says
We need an indoor pool! After fitness one closed it really hurt a lot of older adults and the current owners just teach swimming lessons which is good but there are many places that teach lessons. There is only one place now that has exercise classes in pool and it is outdoors and Florida is not warm all year around. We need an indoor pool.
Celia Pugliese says
If a pool is too expensive then do not use our public land owned 12 acres for the YMCA. We do not need it. as we have many Gyms that will be affected by your YMCA and without a pool. This is not what Mayor Alfin promised to the residents. We need to preserve our Belle Terre Swim Club pool for our elderly, special needs residents and families with limited incomes, use. This is one more reason why with your ill advise Mr. Alfin is loosing residents support. Do you know that the YMCA a so called “non profit” president makes a 6 figure pay and their membership is hard to afford by all those over 1,100 members that are denied the use of the Belle Terre Swim Clun pool?
Joy Mahon says
We sat in a city council a few years ago and was told we would get a competition size pool. How can you build a Y without the pool? We desperately need this in our community. For competitive swim programs, like FLUID and SYNCHRO Belles, for the community, and for High School swim practice. We have to do better than just words to appease people.