The consultant Palm Coast government hired to map out how best to develop the city’s Arts District in Town Center is recommending building a $73 million (not including debt interest), 76,000 square foot multipurpose entertainment and conference center not focused exclusively on arts and culture.
The facility would serve local residents, tourists, trade shows, music and the arts, sports, and, in the consultant’s view–a very rosy view–ramp up to 230 events a year by year five, with annual attendance exceeding 100,000.
The venue would by far be the most expensive city facility ever built–more expensive than City Hall, the Community Center, the last two renovations of Holland Park and the ongoing expansion of the tennis center and Lehigh Trail combined. The consultant’s presentation was a bit like the scene in “Big” where Tom Hanks’s character, a 13 year old in an adult’s body, conceives of fabulous toys for a toy company, but without the first realistic concept of cost–for the manufacturer or the consumer.
But if successful, the events venue would also transform the city’s role in arts, culture and special events, from peripheral coordinator to central driver and promoter, with economic development an overriding objective. It would also potentially redefine the city as a regional destination for culture and business.
Johnson presented the idea to the Palm Coast City Council on Tuesday. The plan was as expensive as it was fuzzy, as was its proposed location, though Johnson said the city could put a roof on the existing space of the Palm Coast Arts Foundation on Central Avenue (for $1.56 million) and build from there.
The plan also projects operating deficits of over $200,000 a year the first four years, and over $100,000, or close to that, over the next six.
While parks and recreation facilities operating at a deficit are not foreign to Palm Coast–it operated the golf club at Palm Harbor and its tennis center off Belle Terre Parkway that way for over a decade), it would be surprising if the city were to embrace a venture with built-in deficits from the start. Private funding for such a venture is just as unlikely: the city would have to play the lead role. That, anyway, is how the project is being pitched.
If the city were to take that approach, it would be at somewhat of a variance from the performing arts venue the Palm Coast Arts Foundation and other arts groups had in mind for the area. Johnson is seeing the Auditorium as the venue for the finer performing arts, though that stage rarely features classical music or jazz acts. But the project would also be the most substantive step the city would take in the physical–not just conceptual–development of the arts district it has been touting for four years.
That term–“arts district”–may have to be amended if the plans Johnson is proposing go forward.
Despite the big costs and the deficit projections, idea drew enthusiastic support even from Council member Ed Danko, who likes to suggest that he’d commit hara-kiri by anti-freeze rather than raise taxes. “I see a lot of potential with this and I know it’s a lot of dollars we’re going to have to spend or find,” he said, “but I think this is really worth pursuing.”
Council member Cathy Heighter called it “amazing” and likened it to the vibe she knew in new York City. “If not now, when?” she said, feeling assured that “if you build it, they will come.” Council member Nick Klufas was no less effusive.
“I share in the exuberance and enthusiasm for this. I think it has potential to be awesome and I’m looking forward to what you guys can do with it,” Council member Theresa Pontieri said. “Obviously the financial aspect is concerning.” But she said while the facility itself would not be profitable, its value would be in “what it will do economically for the rest of our city.” She was curious about when the plan could start (in about a year).
“It’s evident that there is lots of love in the air today, on Valentine’s Day as we talk about this incredible concept, theme and initiative,” Mayor David Alfin said. (The workshop was on Tuesday.) He said the initiative will be more “fully digested” as the city begins to grapple with its goals next. But he posed a few more questions to the consultant, vetting the potential venue’s capabilities, and seeking examples of the sort of events that could fit there.
He was also concerned about the finances of the project, and wondered about partnerships with the universities already in town, along with other Town center players. “I think it’s critically important,” Alfin said. “It’s been my experience since I went to school so many years ago, that the arts and cultural activity on campus or near campus is an incredibly important part of a student’s future and the universities or colleges success.”
Alfin said “we would need to advertise such a magnificent venue so that people all over the planet would know about it.”
Johnson framed the project as an economic driver, projecting (without supporting evidence) up to 200 indirect jobs from a venue that would itself employ only up to 10 people. He also projected that the facility’s events would generate 18,000 hotel rooms booked the first year alone, rising to 24,000 by year 10.
“You get to play in two games with the type of facility we recommend you get to play in the performing arts,” Charles Johnson of Chicago-based Johnson Consulting told the council, “and then the meetings and conference market” like the Ocean Center in Daytona Beach. That dual purpose is “very important in our judgment and it’s appropriate for this market because you’re new to the both flavors of the industry.”
The “Multi Purpose Event Center” would have a stage on one end of the building for the arts, banquets and social events, plus meeting rooms and support spaces, including a full-service kitchen.
As an example, he spoke of how Tuscaloosa, Ala., built a downtown amphitheater and a conference center that doubles up as an entertainment venue with a breezeway and a children’s museum and a children’s theater. “That’s kind of the vision that we see here,” he said.
Johnson grew up in Orlando and has a home in New Smyrna Beach, so he’s not as distant as his company’s headquarters would suggest. He spoke of the many cultural facilities in larger cities that have played a role in defining those cities’ trajectories. It is a propitious time to do likewise in Palm Coast: “This market is strong,” Johnson said. “Tax collections are up at the state level, at the county level and at the city level. We’re seeing that across the board in Florida.”
The Palm Coast market could combine live entertainment and meeting space (think conferences, in a city and county that has no conference center). “If you can build the right product and finance it operating effectively,” Johnson said, it would complement existing venues like the Auditorium. But even the hotels’ conference spaces are small. “We see an opportunity to complement the hotels, to complement the community by adding their living room to this marketplace,” Johnson said, starting with a product that “lifts the market and changes the dynamics in Town Center today.”
“I think the next step here will be assigning some working capital to continue advancing this project,” Johnson said. The $73 million price tag is high, he acknowledged–it is more than three times as high as the recently completed Sheriff’s Operations center in Bunnell–but “I view this as you would build a library or you build something along those lines.” He suggested that the city should take advantage of its own representative as the Speaker of the House (Rep. Paul Renner), tapping him for dollars.
Well into his presentation, Johnson spoke the make-or-break words: “The key here is really identifying the funding resource base,” he said. He was fuzziest on that count, simply enumerating the usual suspects–the community, Town Center’s enterprise zone, the county, grants, foundations–as possible funding sources, and calling it a “heavy lift.” He left it to the council to figure out both finances and “site selection.” He said the project would be done in phases, but it wasn’t clear what those phases would consist of other than first putting a roof on the arts foundation’s venue.
When Milissa Holland was mayor, she was considering appropriating a part of Town center’s tax revenue, which is restricted to Town center, to the arts. But that idea died after she left.
The Palm Coast Arts District roughly follows a large part of the Town center boundaries, excluding apartment complexes and the shopping and restaurant zones along State Road 100. Lauren Johnston, the assistant city manager, described it as “a place for social gathering and artistic expression [that] will provide a destination for locals and tourists alike and will continue to revitalize the innovation district and Town Center.” The city sees the arts district as an economic engine.
The city has also partnered with an organization called United We Art, which gathers all the major performing arts groups in town, plus business and government leaders. But so far the district, like Pirandello’s characters, has been more like imagined ideas in search of a stage, though the city has organized a few events, notably the first Chalk Art and Fall festival and a separate annual arts festival.
“The overall objective is really to help this community service residents most importantly, but also to attract economic development,” Johnson said. The problem is that in palm Coast, people leave to slake their thirst for the arts elsewhere. That’s going to have to change.
The discussion item was a rare occasion at the council for culture and the arts to be championed for more than the reading of a proclamation or a passing mention of a recent event by a speaker or a council member at the end of a meeting. It was also testament to a council that, since Holland’s day, has taken the arts more seriously than the city had historically.
Several arts and culture leaders spoke to the council at Tuesday’s meeting, but, notably, they did so before Johnson’s presentation.
“Our residents consider this their gathering place their hub and their downtown,” said Sam Perkovich, president of the Palm Coast Arts Foundation and the owner of Parkside Realty, one of the earlier businesses to take root in Town Center. She drew a picture for the council of what Town Center could be. “Imagine coffee shops, sidewalk cafes, ethnic delis, maybe imagined pastry shops, health food stores, and ice cream parlors. Imagine artists galleries, bars, nightclubs, restaurants, maybe a late night something to go to in Palm Coast. Or maybe you can even imagine small conventions, conferences, weddings, galas, lectures, and maybe you can imagine seminars.”
She then spoke of the value of a performance venue, and cited the foundation’s current facility at 1500 Central Avenue as a “beginning of that dream,” challenging the council to “do something no other city council has done: Come on, take action be the city council that brings the arts and culture to our burgeoning city.”
There may have been a time years ago when Perkovich’s words might have been taken as a challenge to the Flagler Auditorium, a competitive side-swipe to the already-established, 1,000-seat performing arts venue on the campus of Flagler Palm Coast High School.
Not anymore. Amelia Fulmer, the director of the auditorium, dispelled any such intimations. “We need a place for our children to perform. Yes, we have the Flagger Auditorium,” Fulmer said, “but my phone rings every day and I have to say no, there’s not enough space anymore. The community center is full. We have to think about the future. We have beautiful parks, beautiful recreation. I’m just so excited to hear the presentation today and to see what you will do for this future of our city in the arts.
There were other voices, among them Garry Lubi, a banker who heads the annual Palm Coast Sing festival, John Sbordone, a 20-year resident who once led the Little Theatre at Palm Coast and for the past 13 years has led City Repertory Theatre with Diane Ellertsen. CRT for three seasons produced Shakespeare in the Park at the Palm Coast Arts Foundation’s big tent–until the tent blew off.
“That space in Town Center with a permanent roof on it can be the center of so many things and is the first step in our project to build an art center at Town Center,” Sbordone said. “We need that roof. We need it now. And why we need it now is because we have the best time that we are collaborating together.” He’s seen come and go in 20 years, he said, implying that this should not be an occasion to let a foundational project slip by yet again.
Lubi placed the issue in terms of economic development, and encouraged the council to “take that next step forward.”
“Each of you has the opportunity to take a step toward creating something great, something exciting for the city of Palm Coast that enhances the vibrancy and quality of life of our special city,” Jay Shear, co-chair of the recently created Flagler County Cultural Council.
Chelsea Barney Herbert, a 38-year-old business owner and product of Bunnell Elementary, Buddy Taylor Middle School, Flagler Palm Coast High School, and Daytona State College, is envisioning a children’s museum that can serve as “a place for science, technology, engineering, arts and mathematics. A place that exposes exposes children to careers in our community, inspires them to innovate. And to create a common area for community events, homeschool groups, school field trips, and instructional classes and outdoor area featuring the nature and beauty of our community.” It would include a “pint-size version of our community” where children could preview their future lives on a smaller scale.
The arts leaders’ comments were distinctly focused on culture first, an approach Johnson’s plan would temper.
“Music leads the way, the arts lead the way,” Fulmer had said, describing the range, from toddler to retirees, who form the Auditorium’s audiences. “Why? Because arts and culture, even though it’s a big fancy word, it really just means creative community building, building things that people in our community can come and be together and be stronger in our community–not to drive to St. Augustine and not to drive to Orlando. They’re not going to make community connections there.”
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Charles says
What is the City of PC doing? They hire all kinds of consultants at the taxpayers expense and now they want to build a million dollar convention center. Oh let me take a guess it is Alfin at it again, getting his development buddies to make more money.
Enough is enough with Alfin. How about improving the roads, sidewalks and lighting and filling the empty store fronts. How about bringing in industry to provide more jobs other than fast food restaurants.
pete says
They are crazy, what are they thinking.
Katie Berry says
You said it! How about improving the roads, lights and pedestrian areas that people will frolic to get to this new entertainment development. Safety should be the first idea. A nice bike path and a few small coffee shops would do wonderful and especially for the community that resides near that area. These kids deserve safer streets to walk and ride bikes on. How about investing in that first.
Angie says
I totally agree. All the building going on with no thought about are infra structure and now they want to spend 73 million in a art center. Wow look at all of the work that could be done on the roads. The traffic that all this building is creating and no roads to accommodate it. In another year are roads will be a grid lock. Hopefully before it is too late recall Florida will be passed and maybe finally we can run the crooks out of this town!
Simon says
I am all for the arts, but this is way too much! Stop the madness already!
Gary says
Why can’t they spend the money on the things we need done now ? Roads, safety speed control devices, stop dumping things into the canal and cleaning the canals out.
Jimbo99 says
Wow, the FCSO building wasn’t that much, even with the new warehouse that was added after the fact. And that was after buying several moldy buildings and losing money on those.
Deborah Coffey says
And, when will all the infrastructure needed to go along with this be put into place? Republicans can’t govern; they won’t govern; they waste our money; they give us nothing; but, they get rich. It’s really getting bad here because everything is for the Republicans people put in office and absolutely nothing is for the people of Palm Coast. Watch…they’ll be so proud of themselves that they’ll be giving themselves another raise.
Fernando Melendez says
The City of Palm Coast’s Public Arts program’s and its mission to enhance our public spaces to capitalize on our city’s reputation as a future cultural center is a great plan and an ambitious plan to say the least. And by providing Arts and Culture programs that educate, entertain, stimulate and engage the public is definitely a great plan overall for Palm Coast. No doubt that it will enhance the desirability of Palm Coast as a residence and destination. The challenge is where do we get 73 million from? And can we find funding from our state or federal grants?
Erobot says
Look in the mirror to find out where the money for everything comes from.
Fernando Melendez says
Exactly!
Dentist says
I agree with you. However: let’s be practical. I know it’s a broken record: but; aren’t the roads and the crosswalks that are like walking through a minefield and potholes and turn lanes backed up onto the flow of traffic lanes, the lack of doctors. Etc…. More important right now?
Katie Berry says
Exactly! We’ll said, it is like a minefield and we deserve safer crosswalks and roads.
Me says
BS. We do not need this.
Brad W says
I do not disagree that the Arts are important and there are potential benefits from an Arts Center. What I disagree with is using taxpayer dollars to fund it. Where you find the money is by you forming an LLC, creating the business plan, securing the funding, and you taking on the cost and risk.
Dennis C Rathsam says
Spot on Chazz…We have a hellova time going from 1 end of town, a once 10min trips now almost 25 min if you catch the lights to the other end of the city. Cant the powers that be see whats going on? Or are they blinded by dollar signs. When an event takes place, with all those people the residents will be stuck inside because who wants to fight all this new traffic? Between BJs, all the new homes to the west, & this foolish indever. When will the people have some say? We pay the taxes, which go up every year…$125.00 water bill, this is out rageous for 2 retirees. Roads are crumbling, pipes are rotting….Use the money to fix this stuff 1st. Yeah I know…You,re gonna raise my taxes again! What else is new, Oh I forgot the sherriff gonna need more deputies too, and more road crews to pick up all the litter. Progress???
Katie Berry says
Please do not do this. There are not enough emergency resources and officers to protect this type of growth and not to mention the road and pedestrian infrastructure surrounding this area. I’ve seen this same idea and it brings in higher crime, dangerous driving and more people. Who and what is going to monitor, maintain and control all of this? Consider the community and the people who live and enjoy this area and have for many many years before you build here. I don’t see any positives to this except culture and enjoyment of arts but at a small scale if considered, start small and allow the community to grow at a slow rate. Over population at fast rates is not good for the community and departments.
Katie Berry says
In addition, i95 cannot handle anymore cars, that is serious. Bringing in more traffic to this already bad situation will only get worse. Tourists? Think about it.
Jack Howell says
Did somebody die and leave the City of Palm Coast millions of dollars? Did the city find a goose that lays golden eggs? Really, $73 million for an Events facility. Followed by ten years of debt which provides no guarantee that the debt will end at the ten-year mark. It sounds like somebody wants the city to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. What the hell are our priorities? We have issues with swales, roadways, and streetlights that need to be addressed now! The real question is if this project is a want or a need. When I read that this new facility could draw up to 100.000 people to an event, I thought, what will the parking situation be for these attendees? One only has to look at the Community Center to see the parking nightmare it presents at times.
Is the City already spending money on another Community Center and Pickel Ball courts?
This is just plain crazy. Sorry, I don’t think we can afford it at this time. I would much rather see the focus on economic development by bringing more industry into the area….not fast food! When I was on City Council, I pushed for economic development. Unfortunately, the manager fired our economic development staffer and the county did the same. You know Palm Coast is in the Space corridor, so the economic development staff should push this envelope HARD. I know what it takes for commitment. It won’t happen as it is a difficult task requiring time and experience to pull off.
DP says
I wish the council would spend more time looking at the current infrastructure needs of revamping, roads need re-paved. We need sidewalks, street lighting., just to name a few. We need to find ways now to fund just the basics of the city. As I see it they continue to take and spend more of tax payers dollars on frivolous things. If and when the state passes the current proposal of lowering the save our homes cap to 2%, things are going to get tight. We the citizens are have to live within or means, and so should the city. Enough of the tax increases on your citizens. We need industry, even light industry to offset taxs now. Although this project sounds great, but when your hired firm can’t even put a positive cash flow in the presentation, should be a huge RED flag. Let’s hope they use what God gave them and think!!!!!!
NoOneNoticedDankoLikedIt says
And where are all the people who visit this new event center going to stay? How many hotel beds are there in Palm Coast? What about AirBnbs? This is a great idea that is dependent on something that Palm Coast doesn’t have. Orlando and Jacksonville have lots of hotel rooms.
On the other we can look forward to Gun Shows and Swaps every weekend. That’s 52 events per year at least. Is Palm Coast ready to become the Gun Show capital of central Florida? Is Palm Coast ready for the kind of people that these gun shows attract?
Gus says
What kind of people are you referring too, racist.
Denali says
It appears that you either did not comprehend the comment or do not know what makes one a racist. NoOneNoticed said nothing racist nor were there any racial overtones in their comment. While I am only speculating, the comment about ‘gun show people’ may have been referring to those belonging to the ranks of the deplorable gun worshiping culture, those who place Samuel Colt on a pedestal slightly higher than Jesus Christ and those who are generally under-educated. The same folks whose lives are filled with misogyny, misinformation and a general fear / hatred of anything or anyone different than them. Just speculating . . .
Samuel L. Bronkowitz says
The fact that I had no idea that palm coast had an arts district is demonstrative of why this is a terrible idea
Jim says
$73M and it’s going to run a deficient for at least 6 years.
Does anyone thing this extravaganza won’t raise our taxes significantly? There’s going to be little outside funding available. Even if they found half, it leaves $35M+ left to local taxpayers to fund.
I’m not sure what the city leadership wants Palm Coast to be. Apparently we need more infrastructure to support.
I’m so tired of leadership that does not take into account the impact on the citizens as taxpayers. This is just going to drive our taxes up and then be a slow bleed on us for who knows how long?
Next election cycle, we must do better.
Erobot says
Jimbo, who do you think pays for “outside funding”?
That old guy said.... says
Two City Managers and an out of control Mayor want to spend 73m at a loss for 6 years and no less and beg the Speaker of the House for help out of Tallahassee, what a bunch of inept incompetent people run this City.
Under this administration, We are paying more for taxes, more for garbage and utilities they actually expect us to trust them with this project!
Nah, nope, not gonna happen. You people will make the biggest mistakes that will cost Palm Coast for decades to come.
Another sad day in Palm Coast.
We need to start seeing some more City Managers firing take a que from Flagler Beach!
What makes matters even worse they were proud of this presentation……..
Robin says
Buy the Epic Theater building and remodel it for the arts center. The theaters are empty most of the time due to streaming. Parking lots are already in place and some of the smaller theaters could be retained for children’s theater/dance group’s’ performances, showing art house films, smaller venues for jazz or classical quartets, or as meeting rooms.
My guess is that it would cost a lot less than $73 million.
JustBeNicdle says
No, just no! And I’m a Republican. Swales need fixing, roads, too. While we’re at it, how about a small pediatric wing in the new hospital, a pediatrician in the ER would be a plus for all of the families in town. It’s ludicrous that they have to travel to St. Augustine or Daytona for services!!
James says
The strange expression on that turtle’s face seems to match my almost inexpressible feeling in the pit of my stomach that Palm Coast has reached some new height of insane absurdity. $73 million can go a LONG way in setting up an in-house garbage/waste management department AND a new sub-department of the water department for canal dredging… just my opinion.
Nobody can be THAT dense?… Can they? If I were a born cynic, I’d almost start thinking all this talk was just another way to get the “poor and old folks” to sell out and move. Hey, they win either way… you sell and move, they re-homestead your property to the next fool at a higher rate… you stay, they raise your taxes and water/garbage. Win, win. But I wasn’t born a cynic… I only became one recently.
Just another observation-opinion… not even worth mentioning anymore.
Maria Darcy says
Do any of the elected officials read these comments? I think the comments pretty much speak for the majority of Palm Coast residents. I believe the mayor, and entire council, are out of touch with what the residents want, need, are willing to fund. So how do we stop this madness? We can start by flooding city hall with phone calls. letters, put yard sign’s out, show up to meetings, demand they hear us.
For Real says
Agreed. The City Officials and of course Alfin do not listen to the PC Residents now that they are in office. They only listened when they were running for office and what the residents want and don’t want went in one ear and out the other.
Look at Alfin giving himself a raise when the residents say NO. He went an did it anyway. He is a real con artist, typical Republican.
Atwp says
Vote republicans and you get non thinking money wasters. Can anybody tell me any proposals they made help the residents of this city. People love Repubs this is what they get. If this go through, our tax dollars will pay for this Republican waste. Just saying.
John Stove says
Stormwater fees are going to double for each and every homeowner because the system is in danger of “imminent failure” millions needed so taxpayer pays….the paving condition consultant said our roads will need millions of dollars (which the city doesnt have) to maintain them just in the same condition they are in now, millions needed so taxpayer pays.
Salt Water canals have not been maintained in 50+ years and they are silting in from all the storm water being dumped in to them, millions needed so the taxpayer pays……
Where will the city get the money to pay for this centers deficit for years?……taxpayer pays
Ed says
Tale of two stories….please sir, more stone soup.
denise calderwood says
Currently the city only supports the arts by granting $30,000 now so how are we coming up with 73 million for a facility without even supporting the programs we have ? Putting a roof on what is there is great and should have been done already however the talk is that a developer wants the land it sits on to build more expensive apartments so that’s how an “arts district” was created. And funny enough arts wasn’t really even addressed by the limited number of select individuals who participated in a the focus groups that were recently held to discuss the ten year future of the parks and recreation for both the city and county together and this is costing us $259,000….. Whose watching the bottom line and who is calling the shots…? It clearly isn’t the taxpayers!
FlaglerLive says
The city increased its current year budget for arts grants to $50,000.
pete says
Time to clean the house. they just like to spend mony for what they want. No brains. no nothing about maintaining the city. Place has got to big to fast without thinking about what there doing
Katie Berry says
Too big too fast! No thinking= do the math! Exactly. Analyze,pre-plan, pre-proceed, design, test, and then proceed. So much should go in to protect a beautiful city with so much to offer the community. This town really needs the insights of the citizens before a “town center” community drastically changes the entire community! Where can we vote or voice our opinions as citizens of Palm Coast?
tulip says
I agree with what most people on hear are saying. It would be be better if the city leaders would just make Palm Coast a nicer place to live. It used to be that way. Now, as people have said, there are bad roads, dark streets, no side walks in most neighborhoods, no code enforcement to speak of anymore so the city gets trashy, etc. etc. It cost a lot of money to live here now and I think the residents deserve to have calm, peaceful and nice looking surroundings and be able to have a nice warm feeling about where they live. Instead, we are attracting more crime and disrespect, high density living areas, traffic jams, and and, sometimes a downgraded feeling. Don’t tell me to go live somewhere else–this situation is all over the place. I had hoped Palm Coast officials would have continued to have some pride in their city, but money is King, and that’s what they care about most.
I’m not against the arts and entertainment, just not such a huge project as this one.
The leaders of this city seem to be only interested in overpriced projects that somehow don’t always work out well . Remember when Town Center was going to be a huge retail, offices and condos above the stores? That never panned out . We don’t need to build huge things just to compete with other cities.
Dentist says
Another frivolous pursuit of something that has no contribution to lessen the everyday obstacles effecting everyone..( rich or poor ) in Flagler County.
CPFL says
I have never posted on here and have seen thing that made me say wth. This is ridiculous to an extreme level and a huge waste of money. Outside of the infrastructure needed on the city end of this we do not have proper support for such a facility. If there is a conference we do not have enough nice hotels for people, not enough nice places to eat and lack entertainment to make this a destination for regular conferences and events that would draw a crowd from outside of PC. Small local events would be manageable but I do not think there would be enough events and draw of people to support the cost of the building. This will more than likely be a constant loss of OUR MONEY!
This project smells like a money pit! Even worse this smells like pay offs are being handed out. Would be nice to see who is in line with their hand out to get paid. So tired of reading about all these projects and CONSULTING FEES that are popping up all the time. Sorry but I do not see these waste of funds being tied to any political party (I am not REP or DEM), this is tied to greed and most likely shady deals going on behind the scenes. This is not for the benefit of the people it is for the benefit of individuals at the cost of the people.
Do not let the elected town clowns divide us, we are stronger united.
Leila says
This city made a very big mistake electing this Mayor. If he is re-elected, we will be facing years of debt and rising taxes. How many moved here because they hoped one day to have a $78 million performing arts center here? My guess is nobody but the realtors.
We have no jobs here to pay for this kind of thing, no industry, so this debt will fall on the shoulders of minimum wage workers and retirees. Mayor Alfin, you want us to live on a champagne budget when we don’t have the ability to pay for it. Stating that money will come from the state and the feds is hiding the fact that these are still our tax dollars. Homelessness here is growing, not declining. Today it’s THEM, tomorrow it will be US.
People are frustrated at elected officials who refuse to listen to those they represent. There is a remedy for this. VOTE THEM OUT.
Alfin's Golden Ring says
This is a clear cut case why you NEVER vote for realtors or developers or realtors with developer friends and vice versa into Office. You have to wonder how much of the non existent 73 million dollars will end up in Alfa’s fat ass pocket, and ditto for his developer cronies. If God forbid this ever came to pass, every contractor hired should be screened against any past or present business dealings with Alfin. I dont care if they drink at the same bar, out!
Mark says
Nice to dream big but stop wasting money on consultants and fix the things that need attention now. Swales? anyone? swales?
David Schaefer says
So sick and tired of this goof ball mayor and the city council. What in the HELL are these people doing , they have destroyed our city period. We need help get rid of these assholes. Can’t wait until election time…..
Vincent A. Liguori says
Per the charter Art.Vl-Budget and Appropriations. Item E- Limitations to Councils Contracting Authority. Unless authorized by the electors of the city at a duly held referendum election, the council shall not enter into lease purchase contracts or any other unfounded multiyear contracts, the repayments of which extends in excess of 36 months or exceeds $15,000,000.
The dude says
Here’s a crazy thought.
Attract industry, tech, and jobs here to central Florida and eventually they’ll sponsor items like this if their people clamor for it.
As it is, all the mow and blow specialists, handy men, and pizza bakers just don’t have the $$$ to support it.
Jimbo99 says
This is what the Tennis Center Expansion was trying to become.
https://pictona.org/
Those numbers have danced around as the phase(s) of Pickleball courts & additional tennis courts. In theory, Tennis Center expansion might generate the revenue. I just think the Tennis world should’ve signed up to an annual tournament deal with Flagler/Palm Coast before the millions were approved for that. If Volusia/Holly Hill is the home of Pickleball USA, the best Flagler could become is a satellite location for overflow of an annual tournament event. That or a separate Pickleball Governing body of an organization. And then we’re back to creating a traffic nightmare, right in front of one of the few firehouses (2) on Belle Terre.
This Arts Center would be like putting in a Civic Center for Palm Coast.
“The facility would serve local residents, tourists, trade shows, music and the arts, sports, and, in the consultant’s view–a very rosy view–ramp up to 230 events a year by year five, with annual attendance exceeding 100,000.”
I get the vision, Palm Coast is supposed to become rural Daytona Beach. The competition is the Speedway for music concerts, Rockville moved from Jacksonville => Daytona Beach in the pandemic 2020. 100K attendance is capacity for a football stadium.
Pogo says
@Jimbo99
You’re always right — this time — you’re correct. The kids got in their parents’ closet, tried on mom’s and dad’s shoes, and wore them to school.
Looks good, said no one.
pete says
The City of Palm Coast never wanted industry and never will. Lived in the area and got out in 2012, an auto maker wanted to build a plant but they didn’t want any smoke stakes.
Bill C says
Maybe subsidize entrepreneurs who want to open galleries? Or subsidize cost of tickets to Flagler Auditorium, make them more affordable? Or subsidize Flagler Auditorium so they can afford to bring in a higher caliber of performers?
Bill C says
ps Remember the storied Lviv National Orchestra of Ukraine that in January of this year practiced in Flagler Auditorium then went on to Carnegie Hall to perform? That was a lost opportunity.
https://flaglerlive.com/185165/lviv-orchestra-kuchar/
Atwp says
A gas station is trying to come. Somebody say it will make traffic worse, I agree. An art center will make traffic better? We will c what happens.
Lnz chaffin says
How stupid are the people ruining this city,73 million coming from retired tax payers.I have a hard time paying for high homeowners insurance and auto insurance.
Streets are getting holes and sewers are caving in and they want to build toys for the rich.
Kathy Duffy says
Money? It will bring in money — money to the venue, money to the Restaurants. About 2 to 3 times a month, I go to St. Augustine to see a show, go to a gallery opening, or a concert or a festival. Maybe in the winter when it gets dark early, I will go out to dinner here in Palm Coast. But frankly the only culture left here post pandemic is the City Repertory group. The Art League and it’s wonderful classes folded, the Arts Foundation seemed to have disappeared…. there is no center here, no heart of the community. I do on occasion go to the Flager Auditorium but am not much into tribute bands. I think with all the building going on around here, its would be smart to look ahead as to what we want Palm Coast to look like 5 to 7 years down the road. I don’t really want to see it become the bedroom community for St. Augustine or Daytona – -opposite ends of the cultural spectrum. I sincerely hope that the City Council starts with putting a roof over the Art Foundation’s stage area and grow it from there.
jOE sTOLFI says
I would LOVE to see this community
as a bedroom Community for St. Augustine
or Daytona Beach .
I would choose Quiet and Serene over
MORE people . MORE traffic . MORE congestion . More crime . MORE taxes
Every . Single . Day .
kathy duffy says
An Art Center would not add to traffic or congestion, it would add to the community life of the folks who already live here and I sincerely doubt that those who go to concerts or theatre events are out commiting crime on the remaining nights of the week.
Gas isn’t getting cheaper and one already needs to go either north or south for at least 1/2 of what one needs to purchase on a regular basis and that isn’t even counting how far one needs to go for decent medical care…. I also don’t want to see more subdivision of hundreds of houses all looking alike and thrown up so fast you can’t possibly think they are built well– to say nothing of the total destruction of the landscape that they seem to deem necessary so that not a single tree is left standing.
But there is nothing to freaking do in this community — the art league folded, there are no art galleries, and the Flagler Auditorium seems to specialize in tribute bands….I have lived in 8 communities in 5 different states and find Palm Coast to be a desert. The only cultural thing it has going for it — is the Flagler County Library and their staff.
kathy duffy says
I would prefer something like an arts center for the people who live here than another half dozedn developments where the houses all look alike and all like they are made from ticky tacky…. an arts center would not ADD to our traffic, would NOT add to congestion and I doubt folks going to a play or a concert are out committing crime on the other evenings….. it’s not about MORE PEOPLE it’s about improving the community life for the folks that live here. Its’ bad enough one has to go to either north or south for decent shopping and for decent health care…. and gas ain’t getting any cheaper