Palm Coast Council member Ed Danko is leading the charge on behalf of Realtors and other businesses to open up city rights of way to their advertising signs at least at set times such as weekends.
Fellow Council member Theresa Pontieri is warning that doing so would open up rights of ways to every sign imaginable, including hate signs–“the Mothers of al-Qaida Bake sale,” as a city attorney described it–while overwhelming the city’s Code Enforcement Department, which would be responsible for policing compliance with the window of time when signs would be allowed.
The council is divided on the issue, which is coming to a head as the city is rewriting its sign ordinance to comply with a 2015 U.S. Supreme Court decision that strictly narrowed how local governments may regulate signs, though not whether they may regulate them.
Governments are prohibited from regulating signs based on content. For example, anyone is free to put up any kind of obscene sign on their front lawn. But the city may still regulate the where, the when, and the size of signs, since none of these regulations touch on content. What the city may not do is say that Realtor signs are allowed on rights of way, but church or political or hate signs are not. The city may require homeowners to limit their signs to six, and to limit the total square footage of signage on a front lawn, as the proposed ordinance does. But what the city may not do is tell a homeowner (or a renter) what may be features in those signs.
“If we do make a content based distinction, we’re subject to strict scrutiny,” said City Attorney Katie Reischmann. “What that basically means is, you lose. Very rarely has any sign beat beaten the strict scrutiny standard.”
Today, all rights of way, which belong to the government, are no-go zones for any signs except for the city’s own directional or public safety signage. The city’s recommendation is to keep that prohibition in place, or risk going down the road of litigation, clutter and code enforcement overwork. Realtors’ signs are being liberalized in other ways: Realtors, based on the city’s proposal, will be allowed to double the number of sale signs on residential and business properties.
But the Flagler County Association of Realtors wants to go much further. It is pushing hard for the city to open up its rights of way to signs advertising open houses and other types of property sales. Danko is proposing as an example a window of time, from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Saturdays and Sundays, the window favored by the association. He trusts Realtors to self-police.
“Those signs cost a lot of money,” Council member Cathy Heighter, a Realtor, said. “And trust me, at the end of the day, when they’re finished with their open house, we backtrack and we pick those signs up because we paid $25 per sign. We have to use them and if we do open houses a week we need those signs were going back and picking them up.”
Not all sign-planters will be Realtors, Pontieri said, and not all businesses or sign planters will be as professional, or as self-policing.
Reischmann briefed the council today on the proposed rewrite of the city’s ordinance, as she did the planning board last month, starting with some context and examples from other cities. Two members of the council are Realtors (Mayor David Alfin, who was absent today, and Cathy Heighter). Danko’s “better half,” as he referred to her today, is also a Realtor. It’s clear that Danko wants the ordinance changed to favor Realtors and businesses. It’s pretty clear that Heighter is on the Realtors’ side.
Pontieri, an attorney, is strongly opposed to going against the city’s recommendation–on legal, aesthetic and pragmatic grounds. She doesn’t want the city mired in litigation. She doesn’t want rights of way mired in clutter and filth. She doesn’t want code enforcement overrun, especially on weekends. Council member Nick Klufas, who questioned whether those closely tied to the Realtor industry should be allowed to vote on the matter (the city’s attorney’s answer: they’re in the clear) appears to be closer to Pontieri’s side.
The 2-2 split means that it’ll be up to Alfin to break the tie, though the further research council members asked for today may be largely instrumental in swaying the council. Reischmann very strongly cautioned the council against opening up rights of way. Danko asked for case law supporting her approach. That’ll be the subject of a future council meeting, its date not yet clear.
Meanwhile, today’s debate set the tone for what’s ahead on an issue that Pontieri appears to have framed cogently, with few, other than Realtors, wanting rights-of-way opened: “This is being spurred by the real estate community and I don’t blame them, and I understand the necessity and the want for this,” Pontieri said. “My point is that I think it’s very dangerous and I think that at the end of the day, the benefits do not outweigh the negative products that we’re going to get from this.”
“Right now, nothing in the right of way,” Barbara Grossman, the city’s code enforcement manager, said. “Once you start allowing a real estate sign in the right away, you are allowing a garage sale sign, you’re also allowing four to 5,000 businesses that have business tax receipts here, and all of those will be in the right of way.” In fact, the city would be allowing any one of its 90,000 residents, or anyone within reach of Palm Coast, to put up signs.
“If we can find a way to do this, I’m all in favor of it,” Danko said, referring specifically to realtor and business signs. “What we’re trying to do here is find some reasonable solution to help our business community.” Though he asked whether obscenity could be regulated–it may not be–he is not worried about the long-term consequences of that. Nor is he worried about overwhelming code enforcement.
“There may be people out there that are going to go out there and they’re going to throw up ‘Dump Danko’ signs, maybe for a few weeks, and I hope you pick those up real fast, Brabara,” Danko said. “But after that, though, I think they’re just going to say signs cost money, and I’m tired of spending money. I got my message out, now I’ll find a new shiny object to play with. I mean, I really believe that.”
Pontieri disagrees. “We have a duty to keep Palm Coast beautiful,” she said. City staff strove for a reasonable balance, which she said has been achieved with the current proposal. “I can foresee what’s going to happen if we allow signs in the right of way during elections. It’s going to be a hot mess. And the problem is on a larger scale. Now we’re looking at staff resources that have to go and pick up all those signs and after hours no less, because if we’re talking about 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., what does that mean that we now have to ask staff to go around in their white pickup trucks at eight o’clock at night on a Saturday to pick up signs.” Code enforcement, she said, “is already overwhelmed.”
Reischmann said the more the city carves out exceptions, the more it opens itself up to litigation. That goes for opening a right-of-way window on Saturday and Sunday, only to close it the rest of the week, because the city would then be saying: there’s no aesthetic or safety problem with signs during that window, but there are problems the rest of the time. Reischmann could not cite court cases illustrating that, though some communities did open up their rights of way during specific time windows.
It would also open up rights of way in front of Palm Coast’s 42,000 single family lots–33,600 of which have homes–to all sorts of signs planted by anyone who wishes to plant signs, not just the given homeowner, and without the homeowner’s permission. Danko wondered whether those rights of way could be blocked from use dring sign-window allowances. That, too, would be problematic: “Every limitation you impose, it starts to gut your justifications for what you’re doing,” Reischmann said.
“There are exemptions and reasons for everything. This is why we have lawyers,” Danko said. “So unless there’s some kind of case law, history or rulings, there’s nothing preventing us from doing something like this.”
“I can tell you that there’s just a boatload of cities and counties that have had their sign codes overturned, in part because of exceptions to the rule,” Reischmann said.
There’s little doubt that the attorneys will bring back research buttressing their recommendation’s caution. But that may not be enough.
“In any event, we are not going to recommend that the city enact some type of ordinance that would put the city at risk to be sued,” City Attorney Nyesa Borkert told the council. “We will tell you that. Whether or not the City Council decides if they want to move forward after that legal advice will be up to the City Council.”
Pogo says
@Crass greed proposed by mental midgets (yes, I know, redundant)
And so it goes.
tulip says
And after we take all the assorted signs out of the rightofway, we should go dump them in city hall right of way, or maybe in the council people’s right of way at their home!!
Interested Observer says
1. Danko’s girlfriend is a realtor; therefore, he is not impartial. Danko should recuse himself from any vote on this.
2. Cathy Heighter is a realtor (backed by Jill Woolbright, Sharon Demers and Jearlyn Dennie); therefore; she is not impartial. Heighter should recuse herself from any vote on this.
3. Alfin is a realtor; therefore not impartial. Alfin should recuse himself from any vote on this.
Then of course we have all the other realtors involved in City of Palm Coast business including:
1. Jason DeLorenzo. City of Palm Coast Chief of Staff. He’s a realtor with only a high school education. But he’s managed to weasel himself into a high paying City of Palm Coast job without any education or qualifications.
2. Realtor members of the Palm Coast Planning and Land Development Regulation Board.
The City of Palm Coast is rife with realtors all meddling in the business decisions of Palm Coast along with City Council business.
Danko, Heighter and Alfin should recuse themselves from any vote on this particular issue as none of the 3 is impartial. The public should demand they recuse themselves.
Jim says
Spot on. Kudos to Theresa Pontieri and the attorney for speaking truth.
Paul Larkin says
Definite kudos to Theresa Pontieri for her sound and balanced reasoning on this and other issues before the Council. She has emerged as the leading light on this present City Council.
Whiplash says
You are absolutely right! I sat on zoning boards in Pennsylvania for almost 30 years. Whenever any of our board members had even the appearance of not being impartial they would recuse themselves!
Danko, Alfin and Heighter need to do the same!!
Mike says
Any sign put in front of my house will immediately be taken down! End of subject!!!
Denali says
Your rights end at your property line. Removal of a legally placed sign in the public ROW would most likely be a misdemeanor charge of vandalism. Is that something you really want? Sure would make the kiddies proud. Especially when the gavel drops and the judge says “End of Subject!”
Whiplash says
Why won’t Danko simply follow the city attorney’s advice as any responsible councilmember should? Simple because he and other members have a conflict of interest due to having a relationship in the real estate business!
I can not wait until the election so I can vote for someone else and he will no longer be able to screw up our fine city!
JimboXYZ says
Go ahead, put realtor signs in the middle of the road even ? It might slow down some of the “too fast, too furious” more HP than brains motorists. Nobody is buying those houses for other reasons anyway. Between doubling the sales listing prices, that & Biden inflation & raising interest rates. Attracting the growth with shiny new homes & then ambushing anyone with higher fees for sewage, electricity, garbage pickup, water & storm drain monthly & taxes is the reason why nobody can afford home ownership. Don’t get me started on the homeowner’s insurance gouging either.
Lorie Robinson says
Why are you blaming Biden for inflation? You want to blame him for global inflation as well? While not praising him for keeping it the lowest amongst other industrialized countries?
Denali says
Always interesting how you can weave Biden into any given topic. Thank you for another morning chuckle.
DaleL says
The President does NOT control inflation or interest rates.
The Federal Reserve Board sets interest rates. Jerome Powell, a Republican, was first nominated to the Board by Mr. Obama. He was elevated to the chairman post by Mr. Trump. President Biden chose to keep Mr. Powell for a second term as the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board.
The surge in inflation last year was the culmination of deficit spending, end of the Covid emergency, and pent up consumer spending. Congress, not the President, approves government spending. The Republican (Trump) tax cuts (which mostly benefited the wealthy) are as much responsible for the Federal deficit as increased spending by Democrats.
Concerned Citizen says
Your comment is entirely misguided. Blame your nutjob Governor for telling everyone and their mother to move to Florida all while doing zip to curb and even attempt to fix the Insurance and property tax crisis in this state. Guess who’s not going to be eating catfood at the end of the day because none of this affects him? DeSantis! He really doesn’t care about you (or any of us), he just wants your vote.
Jan says
“…the benefits do not outweigh the negative products that we’re going to get from this”
This quote sums it up nicely.
The dude says
Yet our self employed and hardworking neighbors can’t park their work vehicles in their own driveways…
Am I the only who sees the irony here?
Erod says
Or the CORRUPTION ?
The realtors are just an extension of the developers who have decimated this county and the state as a whole.
Remember real estate signs will not only be the ones allowed. Wait till PORNO.COM signs and other “OFFENSIVE” or “RACIAL” ones pop up in front of schools and churches or YOUR HOUSE.
ONCE AGAIN PALM COAST CONTINUES TO FAIL IN LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE.
TR says
I’ll bet I know which way Alfin will vote. he’s a realtor and doesn’t care about anything else except what can benefit him and his realtor buddies. So for years the city council put in place ordinances pertain to the restriction pertaining to signage throughout PC. Now because more of the city council members will be up for re election next year and they know they are going to loose. They want to change the ordinances to benefit them. I wonder how much more damage this council can do before the next election to ruin PC even more?
CinD says
If a person now has to sign up on the city website for a garage sale, why can’t the realtors do the same with the open houses? Generate a link with the map of where they are!! It’s a new age and signs are OLD SCHOOL. They can put the $25 signs in front of the house! BOOM , simple
FlaPharmTech says
Advert bomb all the time. The “vote for” signs are particularly repugnant. It’s litter and needs to be disposed of.
Jp says
After they take all those open house signs, where do they dump them? How much is the city paying the code enforcement sign picker upper? City vehicle gas, mileage, insurance and maintenance of said vehicle?
As a realtor, I’m sure that when these people want their home sold, they’ll say, you need to advertise more to get my home sold! Open house signs help greatly.
Someone who knows what's going on says
Homes for sale go on the MLS. Also Zillow and all the other real estate sites. Plus homes for sale are frequently posted on social media.
If I were to want to sell my home, I wouldn’t allow a “For Sale” realtor sign in my yard. It’s not necessary but it’s more of an advertisement for the realtor. Their commissions are high enough without giving them free advertising. Homes get sold all the time without a “For Sale” sign in the yard. The listing realtor can’t force you to have a “For Sale” sign in your yard.
Open houses are also listed on Zillow and other sites and again through social media.
If you don’t know all the above, I don’t think I would want you to be my listing realtor.
And please don’t reply Jp saying I don’t know what I’m talking about. I do.
Denali says
All good points. There is also word of mouth. We were getting a house ready to sell; a friend told a friend and we met to discuss the potential sale. When it all shook out, we both got a good deal. The property sold right at market value minus the realtor fees. A local title company handled all the paperwork. We met at noon on the day of closing and all went out for a great lunch after.
Skip says
I would hope that the council would move to have the city enforce current codes and associated violations, rather than open a new way to violate a new code.
Robert says
Since when does the City of Palm Coast allow realtors to dictate what is allowed and not allowed in the City. All this started since Alfin became Mayor. He is allowing over building and doesn’t care about what impact it will have in PC. Please lets not allow this realtor became Mayor to enhance his realtor business around town. He is destorying the City of PC.
TR says
You are correct it did all start when Alfin became mayor because he’s a realtor, and apparently not a very good one at that otherwise he wouldn’t have had time to run for mayor. But not only is he a realtor so is Cathy Heighter and someone on the zoning and planning board as well (who’s name escapes me right now) So they all have an agenda and it’s to build. build, build and don’t do anything with the infrastructure. Hence all the problems we now have, Traffic up the wazzoo, traffic lights not times properly, water drainage problems, and people driving like they don’t care where the road is and the grass starts.
DaleL says
The key here is that “…all rights of way, which belong to the government,…” It seems that the realtors want something for nothing.
If council really wants to allow signs in the rights of way (dumb idea), why should it be free? Rent the section of rights of way on which any signs are to be placed. The rental agreement could include terms such as the number of signs, sign size & height, and date & times allowed. It would result in extra income for Palm Coast.
Another Concerned Taxpayer !!! says
I don’t see any valid reason for allowing this kind of signage, the real estate inventory appears to be sold rather quickly, therefore the market is robust and more signs are not really going be of much value. Why do we need more signs advertising homes for sale? The internet provides pictures, descriptions and locations for sale and links to selling agents. Google Maps, WAVE and several other apps will provide turn by turn directions to any location in the area. As many have commented, realtors are in almost complete control of Palm Coast and Flagler County for that matter. Many like me moved here because the area was not as congested as many of the nearby communities. Realtors appear to want the same chaos and congestion that are parts of Daytona, Ormond, St. Augustine, Orlando and Jacksonville. Where we see nature and trees surrounding our homes, they see future homes being constructed. I’m sure that if the residents of Palm Coast were surveyed, they would say that we do not want this continued growth that is championed by so many realtors being in charge. Additionally, as some have suggested, it will be open season on the types of signs that will then be legally popping up all over the area. I vote a HARD NO on allowing this change.
Tired of unqualified candidates for office says
Fernando Melendez, Republican, running for Flagler County Commission in 2024, having only moved to this area 5 years ago, added his 2 cents to this story about realtors wanting their signs in the right of way.
Melendez thinks realtor signs SHOULD BE ALLOWED in the right of way.
Remember, he was David Alfin’s “campaign manager” despite having no qualifications.
He posted the following comment almost immediately after the story came out:
Fernando Melendez
NewsBreak ·
Yes. Placement of real estate signs by realtors, should be allowed of course subject to laws and rules applicable. Hate and other signs that might pop up should be regulated by code enforcement and replace if needed.
When are we going to get some viable candidates for public office?
Kim says
To Fernando Melendez: I’ve got a NewsBreak for ya. After the last election cycle when people were posting big F*** Biden signs anywhere they pleased, we stopped to ask a police officer parked nearby if we couldn’t do something about the offensive signs, considering children and visitors to our town being subjected to that. The answer was “nope, 1st Amendment right. You’d need to get the law changed.” So I don’t think much of your idea of being “regulated by code enforcement “ in this county.
And, no, it’s not against Trump specifically, just against that type of profanity. You know, the same one the “Christians” are against (when it suits their agenda).
Maybe educate yourself before you write stuff.
TREEMAN says
WHY only Con-men running for Flagler Commissioner???? The “SWAMP SCUMBAGS” are DESTROYING the Pine Swamp(Palm Coast).
Bill C says
It’s not so much that Danko, Alfin et al can’t see the forest through the trees. When they see the forest all they see is lumber. They have one track minds- sell sell sell real estate. Public outcry about concerns that there is too much destruction of the character and quality of life in Palm Coast falls on deaf ears. To quote Danko, residents will “find a new shiny object to play with. I mean, I really believe that.”
Edith Campins says
No! It will only make our city look ugly. Code enforcement won’t be able to keep up. Enoough of kowtowing to realtors.. This is what you get when you vote these people into office.
CELIA PUGLIESE says
As usual Pointieri is correct! I saw garage sale sings in Palm Coast Parkway for several days after the given dates were over with! So should be a No, given irresponsible users jamming our code enforcement!