Flagler Beach commissioners have taken to calling them “Saturday gatherings,” the now weekly displays of pro-Trump zealots who routinely unzip large signs betraying curiously libidinous desires for Joe Biden, who flip the bird at passing cars, who bellow and at times make it difficult for other pedestrians to navigate the maniacal gauntlet. Commissioners are worried about the disrepute it’s bringing to the heart of the city and the hub of its busy beach.
“This is a number one topic that I received phone calls on within the city right now,” Mayor Suzie Johnston said Thursday evening. “Lots of residents think that we’re doing nothing. This is a very difficult subject and it’s happening across multiple cities across America, and we are trying, but we’re trying to do it safely so we don’t find ourselves in a lawsuit. Just so everyone knows.”
Unless they are breaking the law–impeding traffic, harassing or physically aggressing passers-by, damaging or soiling public property–nothing the pro-Trump protesters are doing is illegal, including the brandishing of rude signs or gestures or the yelling out of obscenities. They are exercising their First Amendment right no differently than street-corner preachers declaiming from the Bible or, as Drew Smith, the city attorney, told commissioners in an aside: ” I’ll give you an example where probably lots of you have stood on the sidewalk have stood still on the sidewalk and waved a sign: campaigning.”
At the same time, commissioners and the city administration don’t want to be seen as impotent in the face of the zealots or their effect on the city’s image. But the measure the city is considering–surveillance cameras–is already raising questions.
City Manager William Whitson was cryptic Thursday evening when he said he was working on a strategy. “The staff may appear to be doing nothing, but we are studying every aspect of this, and we’ll be bringing you back a recommendation at the appropriate time when we are ready,” he said. But he and City Police Chief Matt Doughney, in separate interviews, said a measure in the works is the installation of surveillance cameras–but cameras not designed to surveil the protesters.
“We’re going to put up a couple of license plate readers in the city but more wide surveillance cameras in different locations is in the planning process,” Whitson said. “If we plan it correctly we will have camera in high visibility spots, so if there are incidents of vandalism or what have you, we can go back and check it. We don’t plan to have somebody sitting there watching these things 24-7. That’s not going to happen.”
“We’re in the infancy process of looking at different areas in the city to have cameras, so the answer is no, the answer is not to film demonstrators,” Doughney said, but to potentially place the cameras at parks such as Wadsworth park, or the library. “It’s just to enhance our ability to keep our community safe.” Doughney gave the example of the recent discovery, after a commission meeting, that the fountain in Veterans Park had been tipped over. No one could establish whether it was the wind or an act of vandalism. Had the city had cameras at Veterans Park, it could have checked the footage, Doughney said. That’s the approach it’s now examining.
Protesters, of course, conduct their Saturday displays on the rim of Veterans Park, so cameras there would capture them by default. In other words, the city could well claim, on the pretext of installing surveillance cameras to keep an eye on its public properties, that it is not targeting the protesters. But such cameras typically have excellent capabilities to tilt, scan and zoom. And Flagler Beach would be far from the first city to install surveillance cameras, in or beyond Flagler. Palm Coast has installed surveillance cameras at all its public parks and has live “traffic cameras” routinely accessed by the Sheriff’s Office. Bunnell several years ago installed what, at the time, was a controversial network of surveillance cameras in South Bunnell, clearly targeting the Black section of town. Newark, like London, has blanketed the city with surveillance cameras, though Newark, unlike London, provides the public access to the camera footage, something Flagler Beach is not considering.
For Flagler Beach, going the route of actual surveillance cameras is a paradox fraught with contortions: the protesters have prompted the city’s move toward some form of surveillance through cameras, but the city is aware that it may not legally target protesters themselves for surveillance without suspicion, nor can it perform what the U.S. Supreme Court described as “dragnet-type law enforcement practices” in a 1983 decisions forbidding what amounts to fishing for suspicion. When law enforcement agencies transgress that line, usually illegally, controversy or lawsuits follows. As recently as last year, the FBI spied on Black Lives Matter marchers, it did so in 2006 with anti-war marchers in different parts of the country, and it did so regarding civil rights marchers and other dissenters over the decades. The New York City Police Department was sued in 2012 and forced into a settlement that included $1 million in legal fees after revelations that it had conducted a broad surveillance program of Muslim communities in the city and beyond for a decade.
The latest discussion about the pro-Trump zealots began Thursday when Commissioner Rick Belhumeur asked how to keep demonstrators from harassing pedestrians. Smith, the attorney, channeled his Black and Douglas defense of the First Amendment. “If me speaking to you, even if I’m speaking in a loud tone of voice, even if I’m saying something you don’t want to hear, that is not harassment,” Smith said, “and I want to make sure we’re all still on the same page there.” Smith said a direct attack and any physical contact is different from yelling from a distance.
Smith and his colleague Patrick Brackins last month had sent a detailed memo to the city manager, later disseminated among commission members, addressing the Saturday demonstrators. “Whatever passions arise, the City must keep in mind that the First Amendment’s protections from state or government action abridging the freedom of expression have always been intended and applied to protect those expressions that many or most citizens find offensive,” they wrote, citing a 1989 Supreme Court decision to that effect, especially when the targets of the language are government officials.
“Specifically, with respect to a sign or placard which reads ‘F#$% Biden,’ there is a binding United States Supreme Court case directly on point,” the lawyers wrote in their memo. “It has been the law of the land in this context for four decades. In Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15, 16-17 (1971), Paul Robert Cohen was arrested and convicted for ‘maliciously and willfully disturb[ing] the peace or quiet . . . by offensive conduct’ for wearing a jacket bearing the words ‘F#$% the Draft’ into a California courthouse. Id. Women and children were present and viewed Mr. Cohen’s jacket. The conviction was based solely upon ‘the asserted offensiveness of the words Cohen used to convey his message to the public.’ [] In short order, the Supreme Court overturned the conviction as violating the First Amendment.” The court also ruled that the language was not categorized as an “obscenity” under the law, “because obscenity deals only with expressions which ‘must be, in some significant way, erotic'” (the justices would have been on firmer ground using the word prurient, eroticism having its own protections under the law going back to the 1933 New York case ruling Joyce’s “Ulysses” defensible free expression.)
The other avenue regarding aggressive language in public spheres is “fighting words,” which have less First Amendment protection. But Flagler Beach’s lawyers wrote that the words used at Veterans Park don’t fit that definition, as even a 2021 decision involving a high school cheerleader using coarse language concluded. Rather, the pro-Trump protesters’ message unequivocally deals with a matter of public concern, which is very strongly protected by the First Amendment. “There is no question that anything remotely related to the president, our former president, elections, or our federal government is a matter of public concern,” the attorneys wrote. “Accordingly, any attempt to regulate such expression would have to be supported by a compelling governmental interest to avoid violating the First Amendment.”
That in essence leaves Flagler Beach without avenue to deal with the words or messages of the pro-Trump protesters, while the city still has the option to deal with their behavior, should it break the law. But for that to be proven, the city must have solid evidence, and it can’t gather that evidence through fishing expeditions by placing a camera that films the protesters. What the city appears to be exploring is placing a camera at Veterans Park that would incidentally capture the protesters as well, along with, presumably, a few cameras elsewhere, though legally, the city–through its ongoing discussions and rationales–has already made clear that whatever step it takes is not divorced from addressing the protests. In other words, those who may object to a camera in the vicinity of Veterans Park can now argue that the city may be using general security as a pretext to get surveillance going anyway.
Mark Weiss, a Flagler Beach resident, addressed the commission at the end of Thursday’s meeting regarding those implications. “I believe that there are probably good guidelines and some case law that will shed a light on what we might be getting ourselves into by introducing a camera into our city,” he said, “which you should probably look hard at before we make that decision lightly.” He proposed a pro-and-con approach drafted by the city attorney and raised the question of the cost of data storage of such cameras, which can be burdensome. “I personally feel that this could be a Pandora’s box in every way and I really think it should be looked at a little bit further.” Word of surveillance cameras had apparently already spread on social media.
The city is preparing to install two license-plate readers, one likely at the intersection of State Road 100 and State Road A1A, though those are designed to take pictures of license plates, not swivel and take video. As for the surveillance cameras, Whitson told the commission, “We are having active conversations with the city attorney, so that we don’t violate or create any issues. And so my response to that is that we’re well aware of the legal environment we’re operating in and the cameras are not for monitoring or surveillance, they are for taking care and addressing public vandalism or security type issues on an as needed basis only.”
The Flagler Beach City Attorneys’ Memo on Pro-Trump Demonstrators’ Language:
Wow says
These protesters sure have a lot of free time. Too bad they don’t use it productively. Isn’t that the same crowd that decries the country’s loss of civility and want to go back to “the good old days”? What juvenile behavior. Ooooh look I got away with naughty words!!!
Marwoo says
Last time I checked liberals have spent far greater time protesting than conservatives. But nice try
T says
Contrary to your belief when President Trump won 2016 y’all said to get over it y’all haven’t got over yet still crying and being rude and violence and attack our democracy and what America stands for because you want to believe in your ideology this is United States United keyword why we fighting each other fraud that didnt happen where’s all the millions of illegal immigrants that voted in 2016 he had five years to prove it and nothing
Steve says
Your so WOKE NOW you want to cancel the Liberals. Boy that’s really owning them all right. People like you are morally out on loan a liability to yourselves indebted to nonsense Bankrupt like your idol
nevergop says
Trumpanzees are very nasty people – inside and outside. They LOVE lies and liars and can only spread division and hate. There are NO true Christians among trumpanzees. Their ‘official” bird is the vulture /buzzard, which can be seen perching on lightpoles all over Flagler.
Retired teacher says
You must kidding!? Allowing the “F” word allowed in plain day, to public, tourists, children? That’s plain silly and you all know that’s so wrong! Being a school teacher, who instructed and reared children to address fellow Americans with respect and then to see this? Terrible! My family was planning to have reunion here on the beach, renting a home, but with 3 year olds on up to 11 year olds, definitely won’t come now. Ok…So you are against Pres. Biden, well choose a different word…this shows the mentality of the protestors. Shame! I’m embarrassed. Not taking my visiting friends there now. But one friend replied to me, “just shows everyone what type of people they are but hate for my grandchildren to see that, and that’s even allowed in the city? Wow! No we will go elsewhere for dinner and play on the beach”. (Sigh)
erobot says
Good news. Although I agree with their POV, I don’t like the language, however, if it will keep you and the rest of the people who trample our city everyday out of here, I’m good with it.
Deborah Coffey says
Yes, indeed. You ARE keeping us out of your city. Calling on all decent people to boycott every business in Flagler Beach. Let’s teach these jerks a real lesson.
DE says
i say we pull a permit to demonstrate go and crowd them out, the trouble is they get away with everything. the city isnt acting, the citizens should, i have my sign ready, “ take the F out of Flagler Beach.
lol.
Pissed in PC says
Well when the tourist money leaves and the businesses close up then I expect you will be fine paying more taxes to provide your city services. Maybe since you seem to be of the mouth breathing ilk you can just move to MAGAstan where you will clearly fit in.
Trailer Bob says
Here’s an idea…Maybe I will go to the beach where they are exhibiting their mental illness and bring my two German Shepherd Dogs. I doubt they will raise their voices or step up to me then. THAT would be SO much fun. I could probably even get then to move.
Trailer Bob says
My wife just told me that would be a great idea. Maybe I’ll have some fun today after all.
Jean Richard says
Agree will never spend a dime in flager again.
T says
My God people Trump lost and in 2016 he said millions millions of illegal immigrants voted for the his losing popular vote to Hillary Clinton he had four years to prove that and nothing so let’s go to this election he said the same thing because he lost and still no proof
Makeitso1701 says
What a bunch of sore losers. They really should stop drinking the Kool aid, resign from the trump cult and get a life.
Don’t they have better things to do then demonstrate how brainwashed they are by the BIG LIE? trump the liar has LOST the election, GET OVER IT!!
Dale L says
I believe that the city could impose a limit on the size of any signs that any demonstrators are allowed to have on the sidewalk. This would be so that pedestrians can pass freely by demonstrators and their signs. Security cameras are a good idea as there are likely to be confrontations between the MAGA demonstrators and sane people who just want to enjoy the beach. For the life of me, I cannot understand these MAGA demonstrators, who seem intent on antagonizing potential voters. I thought the goal of politics was to win over voters, not drive them away. Of course the old saying, “The House always wins,” didn’t apply when #45 ran his casinos.
Mark says
Even better would be a face book page dedicated to identifying these Trump traders and calling them out. Making sure they do not work or own a successful buissness ever again in this county. Let them know people with their anti patriotic and un American values will not and can not be allowed to have families that prosper here in the new south. Let’s call them out and cancel them!
jake says
“Let’s call them out and cancel them!”
There’s that word again, “cancel”, the answer to all things liberal.
Mark says
Is that a new word ? Cancel? Have they not been canceling crap t.v. shows since the beginning? Well this sh*t show has run its course and it’s time we cancel the uneducated buffoons.
Let’s call them out If you recognize them, they will not work in this county again.
Mark says
So the “government” is trying everything stop people from exercising their rights because they don’t agree with their opinion. Is that what the “government” should be doing? I think they have better things to do, like protecting our “Rights”.
T says
No wrong vulgar and obscene is the problem
Eva says
As a Flagler Beach resident, I would welcome surveillance cameras all along our downtown area of A1A and 100, with or without these fools present. Sadly, our town is invaded by thugs and low-life un-Americans with zero respect for this great country. Until they are relegated back to the shadows they came from, it will be safer for the town to implement security measures in our public space. It is a widely accepted form of security that honest folks have no problem with.
Who are the fools demonstrating their ignorance, anyhow? Are they residents of FB? Business owners? I would love to know so I and the majority who agree, can make sure to not support anything they may be connected to! Are these Trump Club cult members?
I am a bit hopeful to finally see some of the GOP leadership renounce such nonsense along with the anti-vax nonsense. Good grief, better late than never!
mark101 says
Why should the City or the County for that matter care when you have PRO TRUMP commissioners and a PRO- Trump running for Palm Coast mayor that have slandered people. These nasty people already in office can get away with it, so why should the city or county care about PRO Trumpetts. Think out it. The action of these county and city “leaders” set the example for all to follow. And some do.
j. gemme says
remember, the republican party mayor, etc, in palm coast had a billboard on 95 north stating palm coast is republican party, so you wonder why they can do this, look to our leaders who do nothing because they agree, shame on all of you
Jimmy059 says
I believe everyone has a right to voice their opinion but not the right to impact other people’s rights. I personally have seen some of these ‘crazies” rush up to cars while sitting at the light on rt100 shouting obscenities at them as they sit waiting for the light to change. Even chase cars around the corner as they turn.
As a Republican for over 40 years, these are the types of groups that are bringing our true conservative party down. Giving us all true republicans a black eye. Yes protest and push for your candidate but don’t use vulgar language or signs with male genitalia on them. There are many families enjoying the beach area and don’t need to subject their kids, parents, etc. to this type of signage and yelling. What I found to be the worse is that some of these protesters bring their very yound children with them and ven help holding signs and yelling. A great teaching moment for them and their children…….. ” I remeber when mom and dad use to bring use down to the beach to yell at cars and hold penis signs”…
This is a very small group of inconsiderate people who aren’t in today’s reality. Their impact is only to continue the falsehoods, lies, and stupidity I must say, caused by an incompetant previous president. Instead of doing anything positive, they feel they need to continue to disrupt. Being inconsiderate to other around them. This is why the group is so small. Tiny, not a representative of any larger group of people.
I actually enjoy driving by on my way down to one of the great resturants and laughing and shaking my head as I go by. Love it when I see crazy Mullins show up to stoke the “crazies”.
When is the true Republican party going to distance themselves from these people who are bringing down our great party.
Trailer Bob says
When will Dems and Repubs begin voting for decent, educated, caring Republicans again. Why on earth does Flagler vote to elect some of the stupidest and most ignorant and radical of the Republicans here?
I was an elected politician up north, and we worked pretty well with our Democratic counterparts.
We would debate, argue at times and disagree…but in the end we know we were working for the electorate, Dem or Repub. Maybe now that it is legal, some of these extremist should give smoking a hit or two of weed a try…just MIGHT chill them out a bit…lol
T says
I argee with you its not what it use to be I see less and less caring about our country and the oath they take they use the psyche of the population we need to be United again
MustangMan says
If we all just ignore these people they will eventually go away.
Given that there has been damage to a public fixture in the public park it would seem reasonable to add some sort of surveillance technology in order to mitigate future damage. No?
Steve says
I cant remember when I have seen more Fake Adults concentrated in one small place. Such a Group practicing Idiocy in plain view. They should be in a Museum somewhere lost in antiquity with their ideals rhetoric and agenda of no. Now theres a way to chase off Tourists that you all covet so much nevermind the local yocals. Theres really nothing to figure out here. Blatant Cheerleading for a farce. Whats next Pom Poms and checkered Skirts with white knee sox OMG LOL
MikeM says
I always lean conservative but I do not condone this uncivilized behavior. The people doing this type of protesting need to get a life. Red or blue both has its share of zealots.
What Else Is New says
Once again, we see the mentality supporters of former President DJT exhibited in their zeal to show disdain for democracy, the American Flag, and current President Biden. One wonders if a certain commissioner who oft shows impropriety is behind this disgusting kerfuffle.
Glades says
Biden is NOT my President
Pissed in PC says
Grow up and get over it! Isn’t that what you told everyone when trump won?
Marty says
Intoxicated by their anger and ignorance, don’t expect these losers to go away any time soon. Can you imagine being such an unhappy person that this is how you spend your time? Wow..
Ted Underhill says
I find the recent display in FB to be an embarrassment to my party and leads me to question our future leaders. They say that the uneducated middle Americans are our party’s base, actions like these gives that ideal some credence. We need to do better people, let’s not pollute the party with ignorance. Please have an opinion and support your cause but at least be dignified while you do it.
FakeBookLies says
Cashed that check though didn’t you? If you have kids, you’re gladly accepting the financial influx that IMO, yes even someone as liberal as I am, believes you shouldn’t receive because a majority will not use it properly. But yeah, fuk Joe because…..enter made up reason here from your Facebook feed. BTW accepting those checks and payments, using a library, having a fire department, a military, etc, is socialism, but you do you with your weird fears. The guy wants to create jobs. I don’t care how it’s paid for, if it’s me, your kids or your grandkids, or your great grandkids. You have to spend money to make money. We’re supposed to be #1 but look around, in many areas we completely fail. Bridges falling apart? Roads? Buildings? Where’s the high speed trains Europe and Japan have had for over a decade? Why is our transportation and infrastructure failing as the #1 country in the world? Makes zero sense. But go ahead and continue to listen to fake book.
Ramone says
Why don’t we do like Portland did and just give them that area. Call it an F*&% Biden Autonomous zone? That way we can reroute the cars and pedestrians around this area to keep everyone safe and untriggered. Eventually they’ll get bored and go home.
Philip says
Because it’s a two Road Town and these mouth breathers are at the intersection of said roads.
Danm50 says
KEEP these kooks away from me.
Eric says
Check out the reformed Michael Cohen’s new Podcast, Mea Culpa. It is fu-u-u-u-unny.
jake says
I’m not a Biden supporter, however I think the “Fuck Biden” sign is low class.
Motherworry says
They have accomplished one thing. That is to reduce the traffic downtown when these ass hats are there. Not many families want to be subjected to that BS. Especially those families with young children. So business suffers.
Thinking about it for a minute, I figure most are those who refuse to be vaccinated. The way this is progressing their numbers will shrink real quick. Problem solved.
Sherry says
IT’S THE LAW
Sec. 21-86. Profanity, obscenity, etc., addressed to child; taking or inviting child to ride in vehicle.
No person shall use vile, indecent, profane, vulgar, obscene or improper language in the presence of or addressed to a child under the age of eighteen (18) years, or make any indecent, repulsive or improper advances or proposals to such child, or, without lawful authority, frighten, intimidate, torment or lay hands upon such child for a ride in a vehicle with intent to make any indecent, repulsive, or improper advances or proposals to such child.
(Code 1971, § 27-15)
Pissed in PC says
Thank you! I posted the law in another post regarding Flagler Beach and apparently the lawyers are ignorant and not digging deep enough. Since it’s also a group of protesters the newly passed law can be invoked as they’re clearly impeding traffic. These are not residents of Flagler Beach and can be trespassed. I actually had to come over last weekend and I turned off at the light by the bridge to avoid the freaks.
Motherworry says
Everybody is afraid of a law suit. Lock these idiots up and let them sue. Happens all the time. Perhaps some “creative policing” is in order. Perhaps a counter group is in order, sometimes dealing with rats one has to get into the gutter with them to remove them.Or to temper things a bit some “creative ordinances” could come for city hall.
In any event something has to be done as this city is getting a horrible reputation from this.
NortonSmitty says
This makes me want to move back down to defend my old home from these moronic Gravy-Sweating Cousin F*cking Trumpanzees. Although stupid bastards like this are one of the main reasons I left. I may stop down and give them a peice of my mind and my boot up their ass.
ASF says
They look like raging entitled overgrown infants.
Bill C says
Don’t get excited, let the trumpsters expose who they are, a bullying hate group. The more they do it, the more they turn public sentiment against them. VOTE!
Ray says
What a horrible man Joe Biden is. He is destroying lives with his policies. He is slowly killing America. Rise up citizens and take our country back. It may be to late. I hope not or all hell will be breaking loose for everyone. Democrats check your brains!!!
Jim Dana says
We used to head out to Flagler Beach to eat and hang out – not anymore. How horrible is all this? What happened to respect and morals? Where are the good old days?
Mike Cocchiola says
If this is sarcasm, sorry. But in any event, which policies are destroying lives and slowly killing America?
Vincent T. Lyon says
Everyone is asking about how to prohibit them.
The question they should be asking is how to convince them they are perpetrating a lie.
The city could institute a program to debunk the big lie.
The dude says
Losers celebrating their medically obese, tiny handed, thin skinned, spray tanned “Alpha”…
I won’t take my family, or my purchasing power to Flagler Beach as long as they continue to coddle the losers and allow this to continue.
SAD!!!
Old Guy says
I think it’s a crying shame that these adult Trump supporters feel they have to resort to profane language and vulgarity. I fear our society has turned a corner and left civility behind.
Willy James says
Yes, I totally support the First Amendment. However, anybody who has to stoop that low to use the “F@@# Biden” signs is showing just how ignorant and poorly educated they really are. It puts them in a classification of low lives. and losers in life. They must be part of the “red neckis-assholeis” breed. Gee, I wonder what kind of children they are raising?
joe says
I simply cannot fathom the depth of fanaticism, bordering on worship, that these people exhibit toward a life-long fraud and huckster. A cheat and con man for all his business life, a sexual predator, and a multiple failure at business after business – how the hell can you go bankrupt owning a casino?- what exactly do these people see in Trump that is worth of praise?
For any out there who own a business, especially those of age who have or still run a successful business – if Trump showed up for a job, would you actually hire him?
In all seriousness, this goes beyond “politics” – this is cult behavior plain and simple. That it has come to our local streets is depressing.
Mod says
Maybe when people with family stop going to flagler beach and the shops get hurt
Then maybe something will be done
I personally think it disgusting.. there the weeds in the rose garden
You want to demonstrate leave the profanity out and let our children grow up with respect
For each other ….that made America great. Trump people your not making American great. Your making it angry and disrespectful to your neighbors
Wake up people. … this is the country and government we have. I’m sure there are a lot of people in other places that would show more gratitude to their country and each other….given the chance
Please demonstrate without the ugliness these people are portraying
Crusty Old Salt says
Wonder how these parents and/or grandparents would feel if demonstrators stood in front of their homes so their young children or grandchildren could read this vulgar language in their neighborhood?
JustBeNice says
That is a disgusting sign. As a Republican, I will never condone that behavior. As adults we need to be positive role models for our youth. This sets a very bad example. The person who set up this sign and the adults that condoned it do NOT represent all Republicans.
Love our town. says
So sad that one has to use swear words to express themselves regarding political issues.
These words do not help one win a debate. Just making a point.
Do these protesters live in Town?
If not please go home.
Loving our Flagler Beach.
Dedob says
I love Flagler beach. But to visit my favorite places and restaurants and chance running into this kind of stuff and on top of that have to walk through or around these folks. Not me!
Denali says
So why doesn’t the city establish “free speech zones. Veterans Park is a perfect location; if desired free speech zones could be established at each corner of the park. The city could then by ordinance limit any type of ‘protest’ demonstrations in the downtown area (TBD by Council) to these specific locations. While many may say this is too restrictive, it should be noted that these areas are in use throughout the country and have been found to meet the intent of the First Amendment, especially when considered in conjunction with the safety of the ‘protesters’ and passing vehicles in a busy intersection such as A1A and SR 100. If enacted, the risks to the ‘protesters’ would be minimized, the sidewalks would remain clear for regular pedestrian traffic and th3e ‘protesters’ would have a prominent position to air their grievances.
As a friend would say – “It’s just a thought.”
Gina says
Denali: True I totally agree, what you mentioned “free speech zones” reminds me of the neighborhood where I grew up, NY’s West Village where there was an established corner on 8th street and 6th avenue called bulls**t corner , people would stand up on a box crate and talk about any topic they had wanted whether it be politics, religion, race, the ecomony, so on and crowds would gather whomever wanted to listen to a certain topic, things were so much more civil and and if one disagreed there was no cursing or talking down to a individual, people would debate intelligently, boy do I miss those days when one can actually learn something new or agree to disagree. There were also areas in Washinton Square Park, it was awesome. I am so grateful was a part of that culture back then.
Steve says
Unfortunately the People here are not smart enough for that platform
Gina says
Steve: It was so much fun we alo had NYU professors, students and people from all walks of life speaking on many different topics and the audience would ask questions or voice an opinion, nobody fought with each other no matter what differences WTH happened to those days. We spent our teens learning from others. I remember saying to my bestie lets go to BS corner and listen to people rapping.
Palmcoaster says
This is the reason that we haven’t put a foot in FB in years. The insulting harassing trash groups from the unincorporated county imposing their cult into all and worse on children! We have one in our Palm Coast Council Meetings coming to create havoc against city elected officials administrators and employees when the decisions city makes do not bare on his taxes.. he needs to attend the FCBOCC with his bully behavior. I been a REP registered all my life but not this type and do not vote for nut cases and when a DEM administration is elected I do not go around in public demonstrating with obscene oversize signs. A family member travelling thru states had her day obscured while going thru Idaho when she was exposed to the same obscene signs displayed at the access of a couple of farms that totally undermined the natural beauty of the landscape. Solution is to hit them in the pocket, leave FB deserted or visited only for those that agree with the obscenities!
marlee says
I don’t agree with them…… but think they have the right to free speech.
My kids say the f word has no impact anymore because everyone uses it…it is a worn out old word.
I remember when we were protesting the Iraq war weekly in St Aug and we were offended by some of the signs but…then again….free speech.
Leila says
My two cents…
Just pass an ordinance against signs which contain foul language to also include protest signs and flags. Nobody wants to see this kind of language. Lots of communities have such an ordinance.
Then require all groups to pay for a permit, insurance and security. Betting they stop showing up on a weekly basis. There are plenty of places in this county to demonstrate. Just ask Mullins.
Pierre Tristam says
Any ordinance regulating speech would be unconstitutional and cost the city legally, justifiably so. No permit fees may be associated with protests other than in case of special events that require fire and police protection, though as we’ve seen in Bunnell, even those fees are at times used, illegally of course, as pretexts to prevent large gatherings by certain people, not white. Much of this vile tenor rests on Mullins’s shoulders, having originated it and fueled it for years, and on certain members of the County Commission—O’Brien, Sullivan—who refused to censure him more than once, including when he used vile language against Hansen and Ericksen. If a county government is incapable of censuring its own, the message it’s condoning and sending the community is: be fruitfully obscene and multiply the bigotry. And so the community has. There’s no mystery where this is coming from.
Mark says
Any signage using foul language in public view must be removed if a citizen calls a complaint on that signage. That is the law. Constitution will not supercede this.
FlaglerLive says
The commenter is incorrect. Please read the lawyers’ memo at the foot of the article.
Leila says
I believe you’ve nailed it, sadly. Still, there has to be some legal way to curtail this obscenity. A judge in New Jersey recently ordered that a homeowner be fined $250 for every day the same obscene political sign stayed up.
Across the board, everyone is tired of this.
de says
i had to remove a 9×12” dont block sign from my own property in FB, theyhave strict signage rules. i feel they could put these city ordinances limits on protestor signage, when they grant permits for protestors. how about state laws and dmv laws about the guy with profanities all over his van? i got a ticket for a back light malfunction flickering because it was a driver distraction to other vehicles. its crazy and i think biased and political on what they choose to at least try to do or not bother doing.
Loves Flagler Beach says
Good ideas.
Jean Richard says
Agree with your ideas 100%
Paul says
I truly appreciate the sheep who support the disgraced, twice impeached, former White House occupant who only got the job with the help of his idol, Putin. It’s good to be able to see the faces of these who proudly display their ignorance. They will mostly be dead in the next few years thanks to Darwinism and Covid 19, and I will enjoy the rest of my vaccinated life.
By the way, I’m sure that this handful of miscreants are doing a lot for tourism and business in Flagler Beach. And to think their party was the “family values” and “law and order” party. Pull up your pants, you’re showing your virture.
Liberalssuck says
How quickly you liberals forget how you behaved when trump was in office. Now you are all but hurt because a four letter word. A little dramatic, huh? What you should be offended by, you voted a man in office that cannot complete a sentence or walk UP stairs. The rest of the world leaders are laughing at us. You should be proud.
Steve says
Looking thru those orange colored glasses and trying to rewrite what happened under 45 aint working you should attend some more pep rallies and breath deeply
Pissed in PC says
No not hurt over a 4 letter word but most people have an expectation to not have to look at or listen to the vulgarity no matter who is in office! At least we are not the laughing stock on the world stage since we do have a president that doesn’t insult world leaders, want to trade Puerto Rico for Greenland, can drink water without using 2 hands, can walk up and down stairs, ramps, etc., has sentences that don’t include the words tremendous, bigly, beautiful and are longer that 5 words a 4th grader could put together. Plus we didn’t go around waving flags saying F tRunp! We were adults and voted his sorry azz out of office! Trumpism is a mental disease and your in a cult.
Mythoughts says
Once again Trump supporters show no class and display a huge sign with the F Word on it. Now they are trashing Flagler Beach community which once was a upscale small beach community. If I lived in Flagler Beach and were paying property taxes I would be furious this is being allowed.
Trump supporters get over it President Biden has 3 and half years to be President, get over it and start acting like an adult. Lets guess who put you up to this could his name be Joe Mullin? I would bet that who is behind this. He trashes everything he touches.
Al says
Unfortunately, this is not so much a republican or Trump issue, rather it shows the decline of overall behavior exhibited nationwide. There is such an intolerance against those with differing opinions and viewpoints, and we have sunk to a new low in the way it is dealt with. Being able to be “nameless” on social media, and the constant airing of similar incidents, violence, personal attacks etc , in the media, have almost made this behavior appear to be “acceptable” .
While , I personally am not offended by much anymore, and I do not have a problem with people exercising free speech, even when I don’t agree with their point, I think incidents like this show a lack of “class and decorum” and that is a sad state.
Sherry says
Thank you Pissed in PC! Since children are easily exposed to the vulgar language, our Flager Beach city commissioners/police could require enforcement of the law if they had any back bone at all:
IT’S THE LAW
Sec. 21-86. Profanity, obscenity, etc., addressed to child; taking or inviting child to ride in vehicle.
No person shall use vile, indecent, profane, vulgar, obscene or improper language in the presence of or addressed to a child under the age of eighteen (18) years, or make any indecent, repulsive or improper advances or proposals to such child, or, without lawful authority, frighten, intimidate, torment or lay hands upon such child for a ride in a vehicle with intent to make any indecent, repulsive, or improper advances or proposals to such child.
(Code 1971, § 27-15)
Pierre Tristam says
Sherry is correct in so far as the law being in the books, but the first clause of the law—profanity in the presence of children—is unenforceable, has not been enforced in decades, and would be actionable—as in quickly found unconstitutional-if enforced. It is a holdover from the sort of laws that also deemed masturbation a punishable misdemeanor (still in the books in Florida) or adultery (no longer in the books) or sodomy (still in many states’ books despite the Supreme Court’s belated embrace, or submission—depending on one’s preference-to the Homeric habit. The other clauses of the law Sherry cites are very different, still very much apply, but are prosecuted under child abuse and sexual abuse statutes, and have next to zero to do with bad language (except in the furtherance of physical or sexual abuse). No one has ever blamed drafters of laws of being good writers. (If you doubt that, have a look at the Second Amendment which, for all its defensibility-and it is entirely defensible, if not read with the imaginative fabrications of a Scalia—reads like the stumbles of a Madisonian drunk on grain alcohol fermented during King Philip’s War.) Point being that cussing in the presence of children—which I have done religiously at least in my son’s presence in his 17 years, thus immunizing him to anything he might see or hear publicly from the likes of our dishonorable past president’s worst mutants—is, thank god (without whom cussing would be so damn impoverished), not punishable.
Steve says
Looking thru those orange colored glasses and trying to rewrite what happened under 45 aint working you should attend some more pep rallies and breath deeply
Bob says
If it has to do with Trump it must.be bad. There were no riots, people weren’t hurt. Nothing was stolen nor burned. But it must be bad because they were Trump supporters. .
Mary Fusco says
What exactly are these people supporting Trump for? I supported him to an extent but he freakin lost. Standing on a corner yelling and waving flags like imbeciles will not change that fact. Biden is definitely out to lunch but at the same time so are our local politicians. We are in deep do do and are living in a circus of immature adolescents fighting among themselves and making threats to send everyone who doesn’t agree with them to Cuba or NY. The kids need to get out of the sandbox and send some sane adults to Flagler County to save us.
Chris Tamian says
Not only do they hate President Joe Biden, they also hate the people who voted for him. This goes beyond the First AMENDMENT. When I see these signs, I feel disgusted and insulted by their ignorance. I hope the city removes these disruptors.
MRNICK says
Sadly I have found that our City / County, has several undereducated, lowlife types…. and that includes elected officials.
We all need to wake up…. vote for people who will make our communities better for its citizens… Too many of those elected expound on National issues, on which their elected offices have zero impact. We need to elect those who focus on local issues / how our tax dollars are spent. At times it seems like our county is located in sections of our country known for their uncivil, ignorant, bigoted, and hateful populations… including elected officials at all levels of government.
In the end we must be tolerant and try to find the common good… negotiate in good faith and come up with candidates and solutions that all can live with. Find a common middle ground where it’s not an all or nothing, right vs. left etc. way of solving our issues.
In the finalysis, We will need all people of good conscience to get involved and stand up for the common good.
Sherry says
While I absolutely agree that if the law I quoted were taken to the Supreme Court it would likely be found “unconstitutional”. . . I would venture to say that there are many laws “enforced” every day that would fail under that kind of test. Getting rid of those horrific idiots would never be taken nearly that far.
To use a medical analogy, have we become so scared of being sued for “malpractice” that we choose to let the patient (our civilization) die?
Our local political leaders have allowed themselves to be totally “cowed” by despicable bullies.
Ron says
Peaceful protest should always be allowed. But these protesters should be required to obtain a permit. The permit should state the rules for these protest. Why is it necessary to use profanity to make a point. This new administration is doing a great job of showing the public they voted for the wrong candidate. What is going on in this country is upsetting. The border might be officially closed. But the amount of illegals entering into this country is a direct result of this new administration.
BeachLover says
IM SORRY, I remember the BLM protests that we had to endure in the park. Almost everyone was non-local I didn’t see any call for permits when that happend. What a bunch of hypocrites.
President Washington says
Could this be George Washington speaking about Trump? Kid you not… As quoted from George’s farewell address 19 september 1796:
”
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.
”
I think those guys need to hold signs up that say “F_ _ _ Old George, too”. And maybe another that says “I support ruins of Liberty… and My Honorable King Trump”.
Aluma says
The Trump supporter and his Trump-Truck shown in a previous FlaglerLive photo in Flagler Beach has an image of our American Flag irreverently displayed on the side of the vehicle underneath a raunchy poster hawking a “bullshit” X-President. I believe nothing should be displayed above an image of our American flag, much less a vulgar Trump poster. The level of disrespect for our flag displayed on the side of that Trump-Truck is in keeping with the physical disrespect and mutilation of our flag by Trump’s insurrectionists on January 06, 2021. View the flag code here to identify violations: http://www.legion.org/flag/code
Bear witness voters. Be wary of groups of people and their leaders who disrespect our American flag and our Capitol. Vote their leaders out!
Frank W says
Vulgarity is never acceptable in any public protest. The subject matter is another issue entirely. I’m not fan of Biden and support the subject, not the messaging.
The dude says
Wink wink…
Outsider says
Wow…I’m glad I’m not into politics. I’ve never seen do much hatred and negativety before. Is it always like this?
mausborn says
Republicans don’t realize their tactics of division only multiply the strength of Democrats.
Trump’s mishandling of COVID cost hundreds of thousands of US lives. His inciting of the insurrection cost yet more, including those tasked with defending Democracy and the Capitol. If you or I had done this, we would already be facing jail. Time for Trump to be held culpable and responsible.
Trump, hands down the worst president ever, and an even worst human being…
Katrina says
Florida State Statute 877.03 f.s. Breach of the peace; disorderly conduct.—Whoever commits such acts as are of a nature to corrupt the public morals, or outrage the sense of public decency, or affect the peace and quiet of persons who may witness them, or engages in brawling or fighting, or engages in such conduct.
I am fairly certain these profane signs qualify. The police should be removing the signs.
Mr. Bill says
Redneck thugs that really are just here to fight. It’s fun to them. The louder you scream the prouder they are!
I engaged these First Amendment fellows and got an ear full of bile and two bird fingers that almost put my eye out.
I said, “now wait a minute, that sign is offensive to me and any children in the area. Couldn’t you just stop the profanity?” “Why don’t you make me you ugly fkk” said the little old man that left his dentures at home. Two more birds and one dangerously close to my nose came flying out. “What’s the matter? You chicken?” he said.
“Hey, I voted for Trump” I said, “and this is not right. You’re driving people away!” “Cops couldn’t stop us. They just left!” Then the light changed and I got a goodby FU (which always gives you a warm feeling). Like I said, it’s fun to them.
David Schaefer says
Wow I’m sorry you had to witness all of that. Other cities in this country would have gotten rid of those punks long time ago. Why this city won’t do something about this problem it’s obvious they do not care about the citizens and the people coming to Flagler Beach . Just because of this reason my wife and I will not go down there and that really sucks.
Dan says
Posting signs with foul language. Yea…our country is really maturing and adults are making it a better place for future generations.
TC from PC says
I saw these people today. I say “these people” because they have no respect for either party nor mankind. My seven year old asked me what their flags meant. I told him it meant they were bad people and were asking for our forgiveness. As a Republican I denounce their foul flags! It saddens me to know I live among such “people”. They certainly are not my neighbors. Although we may not have the same political views, we are in this together. Stop the nonsense!
DE of FB says
Take the “F” out of Flagler Beach!
I’ve been in Flagler Beach and Flagler County for over 20 years. I am tired of driving through Flagler Beach Square with my children with my grandchildren and being subjected to shouts, nasty finger gestures and obscenities and foul F words written on vehicles, on signs and on flags and banners as we try to drive through.
I am all for Freedom of speech and assembly, even if I disagree with whatever its about, after all this is a Democracy! I listen and respect alternate views. BUT what is happening in FB with the demonstrators is not that! Obscenity,assault, Abuse is not included or allowed with any permit to assemble or within the right of freedom of speech.
Florida statutes and local laws are in existance protecting the public from obscenity, especially around children. No person shall use vile, indecent, profane, vulgar, obscene or improper communication in the presence of a child under the age of eighteen (18) years…..etc. Using obscenities, foul language and inciting violence is whats happening with the group demonstrating in FB. read the news people arrested for swearing in public around kids! and for a lot kess than what this particular group of people are doing. search it!
Delete the bad behavior they have, the danger it creates and if the city permits them to gather then ok, they have rights to assemble and speak. But whats happening, what theyre doing, they do not have a right. Theyre impeding on others rights.
My biggest issue is whats happening around children. We work too hard teaching them right from wrong! Its affecting the kids! In addition, residents, visitors, pedestrians and vehicles are being distracted, disturbed, disrupted and incited. If FB has no ordinances covering public profanity and our police dont enforce civil laws against all this around CHILDREN, then thats a big issue that needs a few demonstrations about to correct it.
The City says it doesn’t want to do anything for fear of a lawsuit? Unacceptable! they could get a lawsuit resulting from their inaction when something worse happens.
The specific actions of the people gathering there are so extreme, theyre causing peoples reactions back. So now theres the potential for fights, retaliation and violence. They interfer with the flow of traffic, block vision with signage and banners, and distract drivers in a high vehicular and pedestrian area.
AND breaching Fl Statutes about the profanity happening around children.
This is not what our community should be ok with. This is a safety issue and tragedy waiting to happen. Rights to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly doesnt include whats happening when that specific group gathers there.
No persons rights can impede on the rights of others. no one has the right to break laws.
I am disappointed that it appears the city is not doing enough or what i think they could do about it, that the police dont appear to be controlling it and that the commissioners are not stepping up about it. Its not only uncontrolled, its progressing more out of control. Its not a political issue, its a right from wrong issue. Its an issue of them not having the right to damage kids or impede on anyone else. or cause danger.
And….the election is over. I thought the City had deadlines after the election to take down political signage…..at least they could enforce that! This is extreme signage.
What kind of examples and role models are we? The ones not stopping this, are as responsible as the ones doing it.
Driving by the square , we cross our fingers every time that we dont get a red light causing us to have to stop where they all are! Today with the demonstrators in all their nasty-mouthed and signage glory, were there and our 10 yr old grandson seeing the F word plastered all over the center of town, asked me “ I thought that was a bad word we arent suppose to say?”. Just then a vehicle and demonstrator exchanged middle fingers and angry shouts at ea other, right in front of ALL the kids around there.
I would appreciate some kind of legitimate explanation of why the statues in the City, County and laws of Florida are not being enforced regarding this. I believe its clearly prohibited under Fl Statute 847. Make ordinances if they dont exist in FB.
No one can leave dog poop out in public. I say this is far worse. You can wipe dog poop off your shoe, you cant wipe the demonstrators poop out of your head. or your kids head!
There’s no way to bypass the route where they are causing their attention-seeking display of indecency. I am not driving all around everywhere to have to bypass Flagler Beach just to avoid what’s happening there. I’m a resident and I have rights also. I’m not going let my children, my grandchildren , including myself and decent, peaceful, law abiding seniors, friends, neighbors and relatives, who do Not use that language or gestures, that were raised its hurtful, disrespectful and wrong, to be subjected to it anymore without speaking out..
And people’s comparisons of other historical demonstrations ….well they were enforced and controlled.This is all a new low and its here in FB , where our taxes pay for and elect people to enforce and control it.
what are we teaching the kids in all this? watch out for the next generation if we dont stand up. values, morals, respect, decency, modesty, truth and kindness, right from wrong, are all going extinct! This isnt a political issue its a humanity issue.
we work too hard raising our kids right and its not easy in this current environment, especially when the grown ups are acting badly, leaders and law enforcement are allowing it, or at least failing to stand up to it.
No excuses FB – TAKE THE “F” OUT OF FLAGLER BEACH!
TC from PC says
It’s an embarrassment to our community! I called the sheriffs department yesterday and they told me it’s freedom of speech and even compared it to having an explicit bumper sticker. How do we teach our kids respect others with these examples. I read an article yesterday that several of these people are not residents of Flagler.
DE says
why cant we all just go protest the protesters…our signs can be “take the F—- out of Flagler Beach” pertaining to the profanity on their signs. freedom of speech, freedom to assemble goes both ways. And you cannot just say whatever you want or act anyway you want. there’s limitations within those rights. you cant infringe on my rights to exercise your rights either. they get away with it all because no ones standing up. Im sick of seeing election stuff, FB has laws about removing election signs once an elections over. they have strict sign ordinances. they cant even apply those laws to the F—-k signs in Veterans Park ….?! and this City allows that? yikes. i had to take my house “dont block” sign down in FB from their signage rules. But Fu signs in public view and childrens view is ok? why do i feel its political with the city, more than about the laws, because i didnt have my freedom of speech ot my right to place my little 9” x 12” sign on my own property!
time we take a stand, peacefully demonstrate too, out number and take back the beach. anyone in?
DE says
If they were trying to accomplish something legitimate, their signs would say F—k Coronavirus.
The dude says
Just boomers trying their best to make our daily lives resemble their facebook feeds.
Just another example of how boomers ruin everything they touch.
MrBoomer says
Dude, Really? We made everything you touch…. You would be playing with rocks if it wasn’t for boomers…