Turning Palm Coast Fire Station 22 into a usable building for the city, once the fire station itself shifts a third of a mile down the road, would cost $1.1 million, architects and engineers told the Palm Coast City Council this morning.
The cost of razing the station is not clear, but it’s the second option the architects and the city’s parks and recreation director submitted to the council today, if the parking problem at the Palm Coast Community Center across the street is to be addressed. The center has a deficit of over 100 parking spaces, and at times causes potential users to turn around and leave, the parks director said.
The two options were presented as part of an assessment of the station, but with surprisingly much additional information lacking for council members to make a decision: the cost of razing the building is unknown. The cost of building a parking lot is unknown. The effects on the overhead canopy of building a parking lot are unknown. The cost of operating the building post-fire station is unknown. Even the $1.1 million estimate of repairing the building turned out to be guesswork. “I don’t want to be held to 1.1 million because it could be $2 million depending on what we ended up wanting to use that building for,” Construction Management and Engineering Division Director Carl Cote said.
A clear majority of the council–Theresa Pontieri, Nick Klufas and Cathy Heighter–doesn’t want the building razed. Council member Ed Danko is more comfortable with the idea, and Mayor David Alfin wants to put the question on the next ballot.
“That’s a lot of money to rehabilitate this building,” Danko said. “I am interested though, in knowing how much it will cost to tear it down and put up a parking lot. I’ve got to assume it’ll be less money than rehabilitating this building but I don’t know for certain.”
Razing the building would be an affront to a strong and possibly sizeable constituency in the city that wants the building preserved and made part of the city’s historical heritage. Station 22 was the first fire station in what would later become a city. It was first operated by county volunteers, before Palm Coast’s incorporation. Its continued use as a fire station is out of the question, but its advocates, including members of the Palm Coast Historical Society, see the building as a museum or as a city facility with some historical aspects–just not as a parking lot.
That constituency is slowly being overrun by new arrivals in a city that now counts itself among the 20 fastest growing in the nation, and people settling in disparate neighborhoods, from the W, P, R, E and F Sections to Seminole Woods or Sawmill Creek along U.S. 1 (where there is neither a saw mill nor a creek), some of whom may have no attachment or understanding and even less affection for an old building that, even architecturally, leaves a bit to be desired as a handsome landmark. Then again, a recent arrival to the city addressed the council this morning as a Historical Society member who also supports the building’s preservation.
It’s Station 22’s legacy rather than its aesthetics that may pull at its advocates’ strings, though its surrounding canopy also adds to its charms–a canopy Council member Theresa Pontieri would not want compromised just to plug in a new parking lot. Whether the canopy would ne compromised is another question the architects could not yet answer.
But its further use as a re-purposed building would leave the city possibly spending $1.1 million and looking for a new use, while falling short of its goal to solve the Community Center parking crunch. Alternately, some council members see that kind of money getting spent only if it’s privately raised.
“I’m in favor of saving Fire Station. I know I know it will be costly,” Pontieri said. “I’m looking at our city right now as a city where we’ve got a lot of residents who have been here a long time. They’re proud Palm Coast residents and they want a welcoming center. They want something that’s really going to kind of be a namesake in the community. And I think that’s very important, especially as we are looking to kind of not be so much a hidden gem anymore.”
She cited the recently launched joint discussions with Flagler Beach and other cities and the county–intended to diversify the countywide attractions for visitors–as another reason for a “welcoming center” at the station, though the proposal might take the Tourist Development Council by surprise: that council is crafting plans to open the county’s welcome center on State Road 100, just east of Old Kings Road.
Council member Nick Klufas, citing his “allegiance to the Historical Society,” also favors preserving the building. “These parking lots are awesome, but, no BS, in the future, parking lots are going to be a thing that aren’t really what we’re concerned with,” Klufas said. “You’ll tell your car to go park [itself] 10 years from now.”
Alfin doesn’t want to risk unnecessarily alienating the preservationists. “You will almost never hear me say this,” Alfin told his council colleagues, “but based on the historical roots of the building, based on the need for the community center for more parking and on and on and on, this is one of those very, very rare times that I’m thinking that this almost becomes a ballot question, because you all may disagree with me, but I have a hard time making a decision on behalf of the community and not really understanding their gut feeling about all of this.”
Danko liked the idea, though he, too, anticipates that the city’s changing demographics may decide the issue. “While I know there’ll be voters that have been here for a long period of time, new voters may not want to spend that amount of money,” he said. “So I’m not opposed to that idea.”
The community center has 109 parking spaces. The city is recommending a minimum of 250 spaces, a difference of 141 spaces. There are 15 existing spaces around the fire station. An additional 70 could be gained with the building still in place, and another 42 would be gained if the building were razed. That adds up to 127 spaces. Those could be available by the end of 2025. If the building is rehabilitated and preserved, the city could still net 70 new parking spaces.
The city is not aware of nearby lots for sale that the city could acquire for additional parking, with the exception of an unwieldy option south of the existing parking spot, across the canal. That vacant lot has a lot of historic oaks on it. They would have to be preserved. The lot would yield only 42 spaces, and acquiring the land “would have been extremely expensive per spot,” Cote said. “So that was ruled out.”
The city is building the Southern Recreation Center by the city’s tennis courts off Belle Terre Parkway. That center may alleviate some of the events crunch at the Community Center, but its rooms won’t be as large and will not accommodate, say, weddings, as the Community Center does.
Then Greg Johnston, a member of the Historical Society, threw a wrench in the discussion when he announced to the council that he owns 56 acres near Club House Drive on Palm Coast Parkway that he said could be part of the discussion.
The new Fire Station 22 is to be built closer to Colbert Lane, and to open at the end of 2025. The 2,900 square foot station, built in 1977, “no longer adequately addressed the functional and firefighter health safety issues associated with the building,” architect Eric Gebo said. And the design for the new station will be completed by the middle of next year.
The old building is showing its age, literally: its cracking in parts, with possible termite damage above the current sleeping quarters. The foundation is solid, but the weight of fire trucks has caused some settling in parts, some cracking in others. The windows are antiquated and non-energy efficient. The roof needs to be replaced. The bathrooms could use sprucing up.
The plumbing is at the tail end of its useful life. The band-aiding of piping done in more recent years would have to be redone. The air conditioning system was replaced in 2016, giving it only a few more years. The building’s entire wiring needs redone–the grounding system may not be meeting code and there is no fire-alarm system, which is ironic for a fire department building–as does the lighting system. The building’s internet wiring is in better shape.
There’s only one significant historic tree on the site–and a sewer lift station. As it is, the building can be used for a small business or similar operations, including a welcome center.
“We all should keep an open mind in both directions here,” Danko said toward the end of the discussion. “Because we do want to honor our fire station or firemen in our history. But we also do need parking. We’re kind of between, you know, a tree and its bark on the situation, as they say.”
Romuald Flieger says
Hi there, what are they doing for 1.1 million to 2 million dollars. How can the city let a building go that far. Semi annual inspection should be done,also annual updates should also be done. Not all of a sudden everything is going. As to the parking situation extend the parking lot to the left side,they can design a culvert partial under the parking lot or slightly divert it. Also how is the building affecting the workers health? If that’s the case the building should have been closed along time ago.
Tim says
Just make it a parking lot
Jack says
I do not understand why for less than 350k the city does not purchase the land that is adjacent to the Community Center. It is for sale and if made a parking area it would keep citizens safe from crossing the busy street. Super easy fix if the intent is to acquire parking.
DP says
Ok 1.1 million to rehab the building. For what ? A museum??? If the building is not good enough for the fire department, and you agree its not, then let’s not waste the tax payers $$$ for a museum. Its time the commission get thier heads out of thier ass’s and stop wasting $$, we the citizens must live well within our means, and so should the city. IMHO there’s no significant history or historical value about that building. Yes it was the first fire station in now the city, and thats it. ITT built the building thats it. Take some good quality pictures of the place and put them in the new station 22. Raise the building, and give the community center the needed parking. And that’s an whole different story.
Hmmm says
This town makes me chuckle. First off, the fire station has zero curb appeal. Second, I love how all of a sudden the community center doesn’t have enough parking. Was that not thought about in the planning phase prior to construction? Third, i love the talk about welcome centers and the so called “attractions”. What attractions? The bike path? Walmart? Our lovely collection of storage unit facilities? The obvious beach? Welcome center, really? This town really thinks palm coast is on the level of an Orlando. Its not even a st augustine. They have attractions. Look at all the “tourist” flocking to the world famous flagler county!! The talk about a “beltway” is comical. Steady trying to make this place something its not and will never be. Its a growing interstate rest stop. Accept it or move to a real city. Despicable.
Shark says
Just build a parking lot and don’t piss away millions to replace it. Take a picture of it and put it on a billboard next to the parking ‘lot. When the city council says one million they really mean ten million !!!
Wow says
The “new” community center is not very old. How could they have underestimated the parking needs by so much? You would think planned growth would have been considered. Apparently not.
Jack says
The lot adjacent to the community center is currently for sale. Why won’t the city purchase this lot and make it a parking lot? It would be easy access for parking and not have people face the danger of crossing the busy street to where the current fire station is?
Romuald Flieger says
Hi Jack, they should sell the one they bought down the street for the fire house for almost half a million dollars.Good idea they can build a underground culvert and connect the whole thing together.
Shark says
Jack – the reason is that they will build a lot where the firehouse was and spend ten million for a pedestrian overpass
Romuald Flieger says
Hi there,a welcome center for Palm Coast, there are no major attractions here, real nice golf course and usual city amenities . Flagler beach wants to build a welcome center for the beach at the cost of almost eight million dollars on rt.100. with grant monies. My personal opinion is make sure that all of the cities utilities are updated to handle all the building that’s going on, also not giving the builders a break on all the impact fees,and get everything else done like the swales, figure out what to do with the canals and all the other situations that arise. Slow down and think it through.
Romuald Flieger says
Hi there, apparently they didn’t think it through. Parking lot should have been designed for occupancy of the building. Someone made a mistake. Need parking for additional one hundred cars, are they expecting really that many more cars. Are they putting more people in the building than the limits. Not a good ideas
Jim099 says
How much money did we just spend on renovating that fire station? Seems it was just a year or two ago that it had to be renovated. That station should be good now then. I think purchasing other adjacent land would probably be better in the long run. Maybe our leaders can put together a long term, at least 5 year , plan so we aren’t spending money on renovation something for one use and then changing the ise and having to spend millions more.
This city, and the County, seem to have issues with any forward thinking. All I ever hear is “the city is growing>” Been here for 23 years. It always has been growing.
Whathehck? says
Come on already! How can a decision be made when there is no real cost associated with one solution or the other. A lot of homework has to be done before we are to vote on this.
1. What is the real cost of tearing down the fire station and create a parking lot?
2. Keep the fire station at the supposed cost of 1.1 million and then what? Sell it for half that price?
3. Have a moldy, unsafe building? That’s Flagler County’s specialty not Palm Coast.
I am a long time resident but this is not an historic building, just a not too good looking first fire station, what about the first store or the first house? The ITT building is gone. Does the City have millions to preserve that?
Skibum says
Why would the city waste the time, money and effort to put something like this on the ballot? Putting forth any effort to do such a ridiculous waste of resources and taxpayer money is apparently a worthy effort according to city leaders who have a habit of making poor decisions themselves. That building is not worthy of even a snapshot. It is an eyesore, and the sooner it can be torn down after moving the fire department’s equipment to a new station when it is built, the better! Put in a nice parking lot and make sure there are well marked crosswalks at each end of that block for pedestrians to get safely back and forth between there and the community center. Get it done already!
ROBERT FABIAN says
Just like the Portuguese American Club. Cars parked all over the place But look who owns it !!!
Celia Pugliese says
First of all the one million repairs quoted by just one contractor looks like gouging as most bids presented to city engineering or other departments when only one contractor and not at least 3 are requested to bid. This corner of Palm Coast Parkway and Clubhouse Drive is the perfect location for a Palm Coast #1 tourist destination…across the community center and to house our very much needed Palm Coast Museum to be manage at no cost by our many Palm Coast Historical Society Volunteers and probably generate income as well for a visitors minimal fee. We need to preserve the unique history of Palm Coast created by ITT by developing in the late 60’s the largest ever water front Palm Coast community in the nation and Florida. Is like without our parents none of us will be here right? Then without Palm Coast history where is it future? Don’t we celebrate the 4th of July that is our history? Then why not to preserve the history of Palm Coast in our needed small museum/Fire Station 22, for our students/children future generations to learn as well? We have lost our ITT signature buildings to demolition…lets save Fire Station 22! Lets stop boycotting with super inflated repair bids…and bogus excuses! Our neighbors in Flagler Beach have their museum so does Bunnell…what about showing some pride in Palm Coast! Historical Preservation equals Education, folks! Yes I do not mind a meager portion of my taxes after 3 bids (not only Cote’s one) to be used on this request, after we force funded multiple millions in destroying and redoing the perfectly beautiful White View Parkway with the excuse of a couple of deadly accidents there…? Are we ripping off and redoing the Palm Coast Parkway for the same reasons and more than 2 deadly accidents? The underline can be seeing now in the approval in the WV Parkway the new multifamily plans.
Yes many of us that are residents of Palm Coast for over 30 years and also many young families moving here with a sense of pride will support our plead for this preservation as well will be supported by Our Palm Coast Historical Society large membership and sponsors. Make the parking lot around it and at the same time preserving the station will preserve the ancient Oaks canopy on the parcel. Even landowner Dr. Greg Johnston at meeting minute 4.20 https://www.palmcoastgov.com/agendas/city-council/meeting/16777/city-council-special-workshop-budget?video=true , lobbied in person for it in the above meeting even offering land his own for trade land or give the city property to redoing the Fire Station…etc. etc. Thank you Dr. Johnston for trying hard to preserve Fire Station 22…By the way he is correct regarding the projected need of over 70 parking spaces…as we all see where the pressure is coming from “to turn the Fire Station 22 to dust” as Historical Society President Cathy Ellavski concerned worried in person to council. Also we appreciate Council members Pointieri, Highter and Flukas for their support! No one asked us for a referendum or to fund raising for the new 22 millions water treatment plant to serve the new over 6,000 new homes west of Rt 1 in north Palm Coast. Also the speakers enduring the whole meeting the Fire Station 22 item of course, placed last on the meeting agenda. A real boomer wait for the residents that want preservation!