By Christine Flowers
When the Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, Ill., many of the residents were horrified. A large percentage were Jewish, and some had been interned in concentration camps. The memory of those camps was still vivid, since this was 1978, a mere three decades after World War II had ended.
I was in high school when the controversy erupted. At the time, the ACLU defended the Nazi group, which never ended up marching. But the fact that the storied civil rights organization swooped in to uphold the rights of evil men seemed to me, at the time, incredibly honorable. No one would ever call me a card-carrying member of the ACLU, but the fact that it was able to see beyond the vile character of its client to the larger principle of free speech, assembly and expression taught this high school senior a valuable lesson in civics.
The right to protest, passionately, forcefully but peacefully, is a foundational bedrock of our democracy. The ACLU understood that four decades ago, in Skokie. And it’s likely they’ll come back to defend that principle in Florida. But there’s a big difference, wrought from years of dangerous, anarchic explosions in the streets of our cities and towns.
Gov. Ron De Santis recently signed into law a set of prohibitions on “riots.” The law is designed to prevent the type of demonstrations seen over the past few years in cities like Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, Baltimore, Ferguson and Philadelphia.
According to the “Combating Public Disorder Act,” people who engage in protests that become violent will be subject to increased criminal penalties. The bill also creates specific, new laws that prohibit mob intimidation and cyber intimidation.
It is designed to protect private citizens and law enforcement officers against violent riots. After having seen much of the country burning over the past few years in the wake of police shootings, many Americans have good reason to support De Santis even though, as was pointed out, Florida has had very few recent instances of mob violence.
But my old heroes of the ACLU have a problem with the law, using the classic “overbroad” argument. Kara Gross, legislative director of the Florida branch, stated that “The problem with this bill is that the language is so overbroad and vague … that it captures anybody who is peacefully protesting at a protest that turns violent through no fault of their own…those individuals who do not engage in any violent conduct under this bill can be arrested and charged with a third-degree felony and face up to five years in prison and loss of voting rights. The whole point of this is to instill fear in Floridians.”
The 18-year-old high school senior is now a 59-year-old attorney with three years of law school under her belt and three and a half decades of dealing with legal “word splitting.” For that reason, I’m not moved by Gross’ concerns with the law that, at its essence, puts protesters on notice that assaulting police officers, burning buildings, looting stores and attacking innocent bystanders is not constitutionally protected conduct.
If you are a peaceful protester, you will not find yourself involved with rioters. If you do see violence breaking out at the “Kumbaya” march you’ve organized, you either get out of there as quickly as possible, try and quell the violence, or call the police. Better yet, you make sure that the violent elements will be neutralized before they even have a chance to infiltrate your “peaceful protest.”
I’m also not persuaded that these individuals referenced by Gross as “peacefully protesting at a protest that turns violent through no fault of their own” are entirely innocent. I said that same thing when I saw the “peaceful protesters” at the Capitol on Jan. 6. While the vast majority may indeed have gone to D.C. to air their grievances, the ones who got caught up in the violent assault on our Capitol can’t hide behind the “I am innocent” mantra unless they can prove that they were, in fact, innocent.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, or rather, what’s good for the elephant is good for the donkey.
My point is that riots are easily distinguishable from protests, and there is a clear, bright line we can follow. The Florida law draws it, and the protests from my youthful heroes at the ACLU ring hollow.
In these moments when people like Maxine Waters are literally urging people to go into the streets and “confront” their opponents, and when we have those who condemned Donald Trump for dangerous rhetoric excusing her words, and when we have the media ginning up anger at the possibility of verdicts they don’t like, it is inevitable that peaceful protests will be nothing more than a pipe dream.
Accompanied by pipe bombs.
Copyright 2021 Christine Flowers. Flowers is an attorney and a columnist for the Delaware County Daily Times, and can be reached at [email protected].
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Gina Weiss says
BRAVO Christine Flowers: NAILED IT! The ACLU will always find a loophole. But also there were peaceful protest which had taken place where students were killed, Kent State Massacre which prompted the largest organized walk outs of universities, colleges, and high schools, the largest student strike in the history of the US at that time.
Bill C says
… “riots are easily distinguishable from protests, and there is a clear, bright line we can follow. ” This statement is disputable. Some blame the assault on Jan. 6 on Antifa infiltrators, not Trump supporters.
Steve says
How many identified alleged Antifa infiltrators have been arrested and put in jail? Just sayin
Pierre Tristam says
Well, “some”—-that pronoun more anonymous than a comment section’s fugitives—-also think vaccines are an NSA plot to insert little Alexas up our arteries and the Trilateral Commission is the horsemen (or Teslas) of the apocalypse. That doesn’t mean “some” know their cretinry from their culus.
Bill C says
“They” know who they are. Or maybe they don’t- there’s a bright blurred line.
Pogo says
@The missing link
In 2011:
Christine M. Flowers: My right-wing views are part of my DNA
“I’VE COME to believe that conservatism is genetic, not environmental.
After all, to take a page from the gay community, why would I choose a lifestyle that subjects me to criticism, discrimination and general vilification if I wasn’t born that way?…”
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/opinion/20110701_Christine_M__Flowers__My_right-wing_views_are_part_of_my_DNA.html
In 2019:
Christine M. Flowers: Why I’m done with the Republican Party
“With so much happening in the world, you probably don’t want to read about my own personal dark night of the soul.
But at the risk of sounding narcissistic, I do think there is some value in examining why a person like me would feel compelled to leave the Republican Party.
It was only four years ago that I proudly, defiantly and publicly abandoned the Democrats. I’d left them in spirit many years before, mostly because of their insistence on treating abortion rights as fundamental. Nevertheless, apathy kept me from changing my registration for several years longer than I probably should have.ith so much happening in the world, you probably don’t want to read about my own personal dark night of the soul.
But at the risk of sounding narcissistic, I do think there is some value in examining why a person like me would feel compelled to leave the Republican Party.
It was only four years ago that I proudly, defiantly and publicly abandoned the Democrats. I’d left them in spirit many years before, mostly because of their insistence on treating abortion rights as fundamental. Nevertheless, apathy kept me from changing my registration for several years longer than I probably should have…”
https://lacrossetribune.com/opinion/columnists/christine-m-flowers-why-im-done-with-the-republican-party/article_145e8c17-2e83-5dc6-a8c3-d50f0f8f079d.html
And so it goes.
If you’re gonna be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.
― Marilyn Monroe
Gina Weiss says
The NPA voters like myself I believe are the most inscrutable voters and can turn a whole election around, there are many of us and growing.
Coyote says
FlaglerLive, how in the heck did you end up bringing in a column by this Pennsylvania hypocrite? I run into her articles occasionally because I am originally from Southeast Pa. , and keep up on the news there. She is well known for her 2016 support of Trump because “he didn’t preach abortion”, her condemnation of Ireland for their pro-abortion stance (she is supposedly now ashamed of being of irish descent), her unending support of anything religious – so long as it’s HER religion. She is supposedly an immigrations lawyer, but never, NEVER had a single thing to say about Trumps handling of immigration policies – it would have made her look bad, I guess.
The list goes on and on, but she ducks all criticism with the “It’s just an opinion” argument. And even has the gall to admit in an article that she’s being hypocritical.
We have enough of these people home-grown .. please don’t import any more.
And, for God’s sake, please don’t tell me that she has moved to here … please .
Jimbo99 says
Not really concerned with this type of legislation, wasn’t part of BLM protest/riots/loots or the Capitol Insurgency protests/riot/loot. Anyone that joins & participates in these ends up being played like a fool. Video on the truth of BLM & all you have to see are the one’s still in limbo from the Capitol Insurgency and their feelings of betrayal because there really is no larger umbrella of an organization helping them with their legal issues at this stage. Either way, don’t ruin your life over a cause that doesn’t include you with a guaranteed better path in life.
Pogo says
@ALWAYS follow the money:
New Report: Charter Fraud And Waste Worse Than We Thought
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2019/12/10/new-report-charter-fraud-and-waste-worse-than-we-thought/?sh=f8a90937a22f
And keep following the MONEY:
Koch Network Announces New Education Lobbying Group, Walton Funding Pact
https://www.edweek.org/education/koch-network-announces-new-education-lobbying-group-walton-funding-pact/2019/06
Ray W. says
“…unless they can prove that they were, in fact, innocent.” Since when does a defendant have to prove anything? All criminal defendants enjoy a presumption of innocence. Back to law school, Christine.
Outsider says
I had already cut and copied her words and was about to quote when I say your comment, and absolutely, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty under the Constitution. What law school did she go to. Maybe the Wile E. coyote/ACME School of Law?
Gina Weiss says
Criminals do insert and guise themselves into what starts out as a peaceful protest as a means to carry out their crimes, its the easiest thing to do.
mark101 says
So very true. It all starts out “peaceful” , but the underlying agenda by some in attendance who are hiding behind the ” peaceful people”, is to cause panic, destroy businesses, hurt others and then place the blame on politics. Its almost like they are working for a ” party of sorts”.
Samuel L. Bronkowitz says
The “riots” that the article is referring to were protests. The issue that desantis and others have is that the protestors didn’t allow the police to peacefully beat them with clubs or stomp them on the ground, they actually fought back. That’s the fundamental issue here. Historically, when the people have had enough and fight back, positive change happens and that positive change comes at the cost of the current power structure losing ground.
Gina Weiss says
Protest that turns into a full blow riots everyone loses.
Samuel L. Bronkowitz says
The 1963 birmingham riots are what kennedy pointed at when it came to embracing civil rights. The 1964 harlem riots got people project uplift. The 1968 riots due to MLK’s assassination got the fair housing act and lots of reforms. The 1969 stonewall riots started the organized LGBTQ movement.
The boston tea party was a riot. The riots over kent state got Nixon to pull troops out of cambodia.
Peaceful protest it what the government wants, because people blow off steam, politicians make promises, and nothing happens.
Gina Weiss says
President Obama wrote in a online magazine, “Let’s not excuse violence or rationalize it, or participate in it, if we want our criminal justice system, and American society at large, to operate on a higher ethical code then we have to model that code ourselves.” The saddest outcome of riots is the destruction of small businesses which have little chance to start over and it is the people in these cities and the merchants who are forced to pay the price which is n injustice to all.
Dennis says
I think this law is spot on peaceful is always welcome, but they often turn violent in a second. That is not welcome. We don’t want Florida to be like Portland, where “peaceful” burned buildings and caused millions in damage. Lock their asses up when this happens.
Gina Weiss says
Exactly as the liberal news media reported “peaceful protest” while the cities were burning in the background.
Sherry says
Well said Samuel! Consider the possibility that if police actually “protected and served” the rights of “ALL” people to peacefully protest we would have fewer protests that escalate into violence/riots.
Sherry says
A massive probelm in our community and nation has to do with those continuously spreading overbown disinformation. The only recent insurrection was in our Nation’s Capitol on Jan. 6th and “cities” were not being burned by protestors. This kind of outrageous hyperbole just contributes to the political fear and hate filled division between our citizens.
Here are some actual factual accounts of what happened in Portland, Oregon as reported by the NY Times. . . take a good read of what is written by “professional journalists”. . . not social media gutter garbage gossip:
After Nearly a Year of Unrest, Portland Leaders Pursue a Crackdown
Mayor Ted Wheeler said he wanted to “unmask” demonstrators who engaged in property destruction. The Oregon city has seen regular demonstrations since the murder of George Floyd.
The mayor of Portland, Ore., recently urged people to report anything they might overhear about property destruction plans or boasts.
PORTLAND, Ore. — After the protests have concluded, sometimes in the early morning hours, Margaret Carter finds herself climbing into her gray Toyota Camry and cruising the streets of Portland so she can see the latest damage for herself.
Ms. Carter, 85, has been downtown to the Oregon Historical Society, where demonstrators have twice smashed out the windows, recently scrawling “No More History” on the side of the building. She has driven past the local headquarters of the Democratic Party, where windows have also been shattered. Last week, she found herself at the Boys & Girls Club in her own neighborhood, nearing tears at the scene of costly window destruction at a place she has worked so hard to support.
“Portland was a beautiful city,” said Ms. Carter, who was the first Black woman elected to the Oregon Legislative Assembly and is now retired. “Now you walk around and see all the graffiti, buildings being boarded up. I get sick to my stomach. And I get angry.”
After almost a year of near-continuous protests since the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Portland’s city leaders are signaling that it may be time for a more aggressive crackdown on the most strident street actions.
Mayor Ted Wheeler, himself a target of many of the protests as he oversaw a police department that has repeatedly turned to aggressive tactics, last week put into place a state of emergency that lasted six days and vowed to “unmask” those demonstrators who engaged in repeated acts of vandalism or arson, saying it was time to “hurt them a little bit.”
The rest here.
Gina Weiss says
Sherry, where was it said here these cities were burnt down by protesters? My point if you read it above is that criminals easily insert themselves into “peaceful protest” which is why the peaceful protest turns into a full blown riots. The liberal media was reporting peaceful protest past summer but they clearly were not as we see buildings burning in the background. That’s not peaceful that’s vandalism.
Sherry says
You mean like this report from the AP of the “Democratic” headquarters being vandalized and violence in Seattle?
By The Associated Press
January 21, 2021 12:04 AM
Published January 20, 2021 5:12 PM
Portland protesters damage Democratic headquarters, later attack ICE offices
Federal officers were on hand in downtown Portland Jan. 20 as protests again turned violent
KGW
Federal officers were on hand in downtown Portland Jan. 20 as protests again turned violent
(Update: Portland police arrest 8, Seattle arrest 3)
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Police say a group of about 150 protesters carrying anti-Biden and anti-police signs marched in Portland streets and damaged the headquarters of the Democratic Party of Oregon. Another violent clash occurred later at federal immigration offices.
The group smashed windows and spray-painted anarchist symbols Wednesday at the political party building. Police said eight arrests were made.
Police say it was one of four groups gathering in the city on Inauguration Day.
A group of about 150 people also marched in Seattle, where police say windows at a federal courthouse were broken and three people were arrested.
Federal officers later declared an unlawful assembly outside the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) building in Portland, the site of numerous clashes over the past year, KGW reported.
Police said people were throwing rocks, eggs and vandalizing the building. KGW said federal officers first warned demonstrators on a loudspeaker not to trespass on federal property, then used munitions and tear gas to disperse them.
Or,this from The Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/09/14/violent-antipolice-memes-surge/
Or , this from NPR:
https://www.npr.org/sections/publiceditor/2020/08/06/898878896/how-the-portland-protest-story-escalated-and-why-news-consumers-were-frustrated
Or, this from the New York Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/us/protests-portland-seattle-biden.html
OR. . . is it that some are only focused on the propaganda that FOX/Hannity dishes out daily:
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/08/fox-news-tied-a-portland-shooting-to-protests-in-fact-it-happened-miles-away.html
Sean Hannity reporting on the protests with a graphic that reads “VIOLENCE IN PORTLAND.” Hannity proceeded to call the protest behavior “insane.” Several bullet points expanding on the type of violence occurring in Portland listed graffiti. If you’re watching Fox News’ coverage then you’re led to believe “it’s the end of America as we know it.” Hannity even reported on a “fire-bombing” that took place amid the protests, but it turns out that language escalates the reality of the situation.
“Yeah, it is insane—because that tone does not honestly reflect the conditions on the ground,” . “That ‘fire-bombing,’ for instance, seems to be a reference to either a firework or a small fire that was set, which is significantly less dramatic than he’s trying to make it sound.
Sherry says
And, then there is the FOX view of the Jan. 6th violent insurrection at our national Capitol:
Sun, June 6, 2021, 8:00 AM·
FILE – In this Jan. 6, 2021, file photo violent insurrectionists loyal to President Donald Trump supporters try to break through a police barrier at the Capitol in Washington. A month ago, the U.S. Capitol was besieged by Trump supporters angry about the former president's loss. While lawmakers inside voted to affirm President Joe Biden's win, they marched to the building and broke inside.
Fox News refused to air an ad about the violent insurrection that took place at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, according to the political action committee that created the ad. (Associated Press)
Fox News declined to broadcast an ad Sunday about the violence that law-enforcement members faced as they tried to stop the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, according to the creators of the political commercial.
“We couldn’t have fathomed in our wildest imaginations that even a Fox News would reject an ad that simply condemns the insurrection, and condemns people who support the insurrection,” .
Here are just a couple of quotes from FOX talking heads on Jan. 8th:
“Of the people who gathered yesterday, 99% of them were peaceful,” Fox & Friends host Steve Doocy said Jan. 7. Doocy later claimed the rioters were merely “frustrated,” as if being frustrated makes one want to lay siege to the US Capitol building. Five people have now died as a result of the riot, including a Capitol Police officer. US federal investigators have opened a murder investigation into the officer’s death.
“They were there to support the president of the United States and defend our republic, and stand up and say, ‘I just want a fair shake,’” claimed Fox News contributor Pete Hegseth. “It manifested at the Capitol in a different way, but that doesn’t mean you have to condemn the entire thing.”
If you happen to receive ALL your news from FOX, Newsmax, Brietbart, OANN, etc. . . . may I suggest also taking a look at credentialed FACTS from AP News, PBS, BBC, and NPR for a more well rounded view of reality. The gutter garbage gossip on Social Media should be the last place to rely on for any kind of factual information. . . not the first.
Gina Weiss says
Sherry:So the “peaceful protest” as an example, in NYC this past summer never escalated into full blown rioting and looting, I’m from there and have relatives who live in the city and they saw first hand say different as they actually saw them unfold forget about any media outlet, even the the worst gov in the hx of NY was appalled. By the way I don’t rely on any social media outlet’s just like I don’t just sit and watch Fox so stop your judging when you don’t know the person it’s another tactic to shun and shut people down.
SlimKeith says
You STILL don’t comprehend the difference between the PROTESTERS and the RIOTERS. I’ve capitalized them so perhaps you’ll understand they’re two different entities but you’ve already made up your mind through a distinct lack of rationale and fact so no one is going to convince you logically of anything different.
Gina Weiss says
AGAIN your comment makes NO SENSE in lieu of the CONVERSATION we had SO maybe you should READ instead of making nonsensical statements. I capitalized DITTO.
FlaglerLive says
Gina, Slim, come on ladies and gents, take down the capital language a notch please.