A blustery, angry morning segment of a day-long meeting of the Palm Coast City Council today felt like aftershocks of Hurricane Milton as numerous residents assailed what they saw–against evidence–as the city’s failed response during the storm while some residents praised the same response for weathering a historic rainfall with very limited damage: just five homes had any kind of flooding, the city confirmed this afternoon.
An attempt by City Council member Theresa Pontieri to call for a year-long moratorium on residential construction–this time apparently not limited geographically–was answered with dead silence from her four colleagues. Her motion died for lack of a second.
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There was no other action. But that segment of the meeting was all pressure valves and gauges as residents exhaled steam and rancor as if pent up during the storm, while the city administration tried–mostly in vain–to show that Palm Coast made it through Milton remarkably unscathed but for minor damage. This morning, county officials said the sum total of damage in Palm Coast was $4.69 million, and just under $19 million countywide.
Earlier the leadership of the city’s stormwater and engineering departments had summed up the system as it is today, and as it performed through Hurricane Milton. The leadership, including Carl Cote and Lynn Stevens, director and deputy director of stormwater and engineering, explained why and how water rose in the city, as designed during extreme rain events, how it drained rather rapidly, and how the city has no control on those areas where the water eventually flows, like the Intracoastal or other surrounding water bodies. If those bodies’ waters or tides rise unusually high, it’s a problem for the city–and a problem with limited solutions.
The explanations did not seem to make much of an impact on residents who addressed the council. The first one to do so called city officials “retarded,” and flipped through pictures of his property: “Here’s where flood or mud was coming into my home, my home, mud, more mud. This is all mud.” He was followed by a resident who lives on a canal and who’s experienced hurricanes in South Florida. ” Palm Coast, the drainage, the culverts, the canals, performed exceptionally well,” he said. A few others echoed his statement.
Several residents complained about flooded street, though not about intrusion into their homes. It came very close for some–but still not into their homes. They spoke in general terms, complaining about what the city was doing with the $18 million budget for stormwater, though Stevens had just flashed pie charts and illustrations on overhead screens. On it went, with residents describing high water again and again–but in yards, in swales, in streets, not mostly in homes. There were exceptions. “My house is flooded now I have to go back to that,” one resident said. Another called for an end to swales.
Residents were addressing the stormwater item, but several called for a “forensic audit” to find out “where you’re spending our money.” They complained of spending on a dog park or a new soccer field. Ohers complained about too much growth. Cornelia Manfre, the candidate for mayor, called it a “failure” that the city had to send out alerts to keep people from using water during the storm. “We own these utilities we should be providing, and these should have been enhanced years ago. This is a failure,” she said. Sandra Shank, a member of the planning board, wondered why “nothing was mentioned” about the city getting a decree from the Department of Environmental Protection to rapidly expand one of its two sewer plants, which gets overwhelmed during storms (that was to be its own item later in the meeting, however, with details, charts and costs.)
Lynn Stevens, the deputy director of stormwater and engineering, presented an overview of what she called the “massive” stormwater system that goes far beyond the 1,222 miles of swales in front of residents’ homes: it also consists of 58 miles of freshwater canals–the backbone of the system–177 miles of ditches, 13 freshwater lakes covering 111 acres, 14 dam-like water-control structures called weirs (they have been equipped with cameras to monitor water levels), and some 5,000 pipe locations and catch basins. It all drains into the Intracoastal and wetlands surrounding the city such as Graham Swamp and Princess Place Preserve, which in turn flow into the Intracoastal.
“That system is also affected by high tides, so oftentimes, the system will back up a bit if the tides are extremely high during a major rainfall event,” Stevens said. She outlined the long list of tasks the department’s 92 employees carry out, regrading swales–just two swale crews do the job–clearing ditches, ensuring that canals flow unimpeded, replacing or maintaining pipes, and so on. Much of that infrastructure is aging.
Stormwater engineering is its own division within the department, managing the city’s stormwater’s $17 million in current capital projects. One of those huge projects is the nearly $10 million London Waterway Expansion project, a large pond in the north end of town to control waters in that end of town.
“During the hurricane situation, we monitor water levels in various locations throughout the city,” Stevens said. “We saw many of those water levels, four to six feet higher in our receiving waters than they were prior to the storm. Again, when that water backs up, it tends to slow down how fast water can get out of our city. We do not control the tides or Mother Nature on the other side of our outfall system. I also wanted to point out that the weekend prior to Hurricane Milton, we were expecting a significant rainfall event due to a northeaster that was coming through our town. Five days prior to that weekend event, staff started adjusting our weir levels and started lowering those weir levels to provide capacity within our city. We brought them down to what we would expect for a hurricane level. And then when we heard about Milton, we started dropping those even further. As a matter of fact, we dropped the weir levels all the way down as far as they would go.”
There was grumbling in the audience, with some people claiming “it didn’t happen.”
“While some of the roadways did experience water over the road, the roads were cleared within 24 hours,” Stevens continued. More grumbling. Homes are built higher than the road–at least 12 inches higher. But the city doesn’t know to what extent grounds around homes sink over time (the homes themselves do not sink). Water pooling in yards flows down to the road which, if the swales are full, acts as part of the stormwater system, driving water to ditches and canals. “We received 14 inches of rain in a very short period of time. Again, we had 4 to 6 feet over normal water levels in many of our areas, although since the ground was so saturated, it is going to take time for yards and swales to recover.”
For all that, Mayor David Alfin said, “My concern is that the stormwater department, as hard as you all are working with all of the updates that you did, there’s a big gap between your your your work, and the community’s expectation.” The question, he said, is how to close that gap over the next year to three years.
Carl Cote, the city’s director of engineering and stormwater, gently pushed back against the mayor’s characterization. “Palm Coast is a master-planned community,” Cote said. “It is a very well designed system compared to a lot of cities in Florida, where the cities are piecemealed. They have much more worse conditions than Palm Coast.” He reiterated the expectation that in unusual rain events, water ends up in the street–not in homes. But to rebuild it all into a curb and gutter system would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, “maybe even a billion,” Cote said. “It’s astronomical. It can’t even be considered to go back and rebuild the city, basically, is what you’re trying to do. But in terms of our stormwater system, we have a very, very good system here in the city. If you look at the flooding around us and all the other communities, we did not experience the extent of flooding that those communities saw during this event. Do we have problems? Yes. Do we have projects lined up to make it better? Yes. And we continue to use that stormwater model to make enhancements and address those concerns.”
Charles Gambaro, the appointed member sitting through his second business meeting, referred to his previous job in the military–as he has frequently done in th short time he’s been on the council–and complained about “fighting the last war” before both curtly rebuffing Cote and mischaracterizing what Cote had said. “I don’t agree that we have the greatest system in the world,” Gambaro told the engineer. Gambaro’s education is heavy on public administration and political science. It’s no engineering. Cote had not described Palm Coast’s system as “the greatest system in the world,” but as “very well designed” compared to a lot of other Florida cities.
It was also unusual for a new council member to so readily and publicly repudiate a director mere days out from a historic storm that evidenced Cote’s point far more than it did Gambaro’s, and after only his first tour of the city. Nor does it help the city administration’s efforts to battle misconceptions and social media’s amplification of misinformation about the stormwater system’s supposed failures. But it could be a hint of the “weapon system” to come, as Gambaro described himself to his colleagues in his first meeting two weeks ago.
Pontieri doesn’t want a band-aid approach. Again, Cote pushed back, citing factors out of the city’s control: Pellicer Creek and the Intracoastal have their own flows of water. The city cannot control those. If those waters rise over time, it’ll impact the city. The city can create additional capacity within its own system. It’s doing that, Cote said. For example, the city is close to improving the flow of water out of the Woodlands, which can flood because of the proximity of Graham Swamp.
The presentation had been designed as just that–an update on the city’s stormwater system. It had been scheduled well before Hurricane Milton was a sand devil over West Africa. But because the presentation was delivered in its immediate aftermath, it became a natural springboard for residents’ frustrations, however soaked in misunderstandings.
“Look, I don’t have solutions to all these problems. Nobody sitting up here has all the solutions,” Council member Ed Danko told the audience. “But I do know that we need to start focusing on the problems that we have here in Palm Coast, Palm Coast 1.0, not Palm Coast 2.0, not a westward expansion. We don’t need a road to nowhere. We need another water treatment plant. We don’t need a sports arena for $93 million. We need another water treatment plant.” He spoke of the ongoing plan to dredge saltwater canals as part of the solution, among other approaches.
It was at that point that Pontieri addressed Danko: “Respectfully, vice mayor, you have contributed to the problem, as has the rest of this board every time they have voted yes on a zoning variance that is increased density,” she said. “I have sat on this board for two years and pounded my fist on two things: lack of water and lack of water capacity. I have said over and over and over, these are issues, guys. We don’t have the ability to provide these services. And if we are saying we have the ability right now, we are perpetuating, I will not say lies, but we are pushing the envelope. And this past week, the envelope got pushed way over the edge.” Pontieri is not opposed to the westward expansion. She cited existing issues on the east side of U.S. 1, cited ongoing improvements and the 10 new hires for stormwater’s employees, then moved again “for another residential building moratorium for one year until we get this under control–we get the storm water under control, we get the wastewater treatment plant under control.” She said the city was in a “hamster wheel,” and needed off.
“A moratorium has huge legal ramifications,” Council member Nick Klufas said, before turning the tables on Pontieri: “Raising our water utility rates to a level that will sustain our utility are necessary, and those steps were not taken by our council.” Pontieri had agreed to raise development impact fees for utility expansion, but not rates, as the administration and its consultant had asked for. Pontieri conceded that with the consent decree looming over the city, not raising rates is no longer an option.
Then Pontieri’s motion died.
JimboXYZ says
“For all that, Mayor David Alfin said, “My concern is that the stormwater department, as hard as you all are working with all of the updates that you did, there’s a big gap between your your your work, and the community’s expectation.” The question, he said, is how to close that gap over the next year to three years.”
Alfin & his Vision 2050. Gone in 2025. He & the rest grew it. Until those homes are built that were approved & populated with tax payers, the growth was never going to pay for this mess. Thanks for buying into Biden’s Build Back Lies, where the masses get gouged for the growth that simply is so grossly underfunded for the entire county. Use up every penny of the $ 30 million Westward expansion on road repaves & sewage facility expansion and tell those that underfunded everything that until the infrastructure of the county can handle the growth of the last 3.75 years of Biden-Harris open borders & domestic USA overpopulation with a surplus of capacity, that nothing will be built West of US-1 in Flagler County, whether it’s Bunnell or Palm Coast. Not a road, not a tree downed for anything. Not another dime of debt for a tax increase. Done with being lied to about any of this. Unfortunately, Alfin couldn’t have been fired like so many others as appointments/hires that we’ve read about for 3.75 years.
(Gop)Greed over people says
Are you thanking Biden for lowering gas prices and cooling inflation brought on by trumps tariffs? Maga tards have to logic. So you think the border is open and anyone can just come on through? I think you’ve been watching too much faux “news” entertainment and believing it. Isn’t that the republicon thing to do complain the government doesn’t work and then get elected and prove it. Florida is as corrupt as it gets with racist Ron licking boots of his corporate overlords. I still amazed at the level of ignorance. Profits over people! clean air or clean water isn’t totally necessary besides regulations could cut back on profits and that’s the most important thing here in merica .
CRB says
Ummm I remember very clearly much lower gas prices and everything else when TRUMP was in!!! Have u gone to a grocery store in the last year or more? Cause I go to Publix and $200 worth of food is 4 maybe 5 bag’s depending!!! I’m sick of it!!!
Maybe u have money and money to blow but I don’t!!
I am sick of working my tail off 2 jobs and doing side work and still ends r barely being met!! I’m sick of tell my kids ok babe I’m a few weeks we can get that or simply no I don’t have the $!!! It really sucks and I AM VOTING FOR TRUMP!!!!
Denali says
You really do not understand how presidential economics work. Every president except Washington has been blessed or saddled with the economics of his predecessor. Biden inherited the economic mess created by Trump just as Trump inherited the growing economy created by Obama. The only reason the economy seemed better under Trump was due to the work done by Obama to negate the downturn created by Bush. In other words, the inflation we saw in the first two years of the Biden administration were created by Trump. That Biden was able to reverse the damage created by Trump so quickly was in itself a minor miracle.
exasperated says
This is a cautionary tale for those of you who play the Jimbo/Biden drinking game.
Some of our members have developed into problem drinkers with several becoming alcoholics. It started out as fun. At the end of the week we would scan FlaglerLive for Jimbo’s posts and if the post had one mention of Biden we’d take a drink. When the post had two mentions of Biden we would double the total. If there were three mentions we would triple the total. As you can imagine it got out of hand.
With the election coming, hurricane season ramping up, persistent inflation, rising water, increased utility rates, over development, gas and food prices increasing, the Middle East crisis, the price of tea in China and anything else that can go wrong, all of which are Biden’s fault, Jimbo’s posts will probably become more prolific.
Remember friends don’t let friends read Jimbo’s posts.
CRB says
Love this!!!!
Randy Bentwick says
“big gap between your work, and the community’s expectation.”
Alfin is a spineless politician.
The big gap is because the community (and Alfin) have no idea how the storm water system works.
How much rain did we get in the past month? And how much of it ended up in houses?
People bitch and moan because theres water in the swale.
If you don’t like it go back to New York.
Tired of it says
Another rant from Jimbo just so he can drag in Biden, Harris, etc. The fact is that this county has been and is currently controlled by Republicans for decades. Any failures are their responsibilities. As is the uncontrolled growth and its ensuing problems, traffic, flooding, not enough roads, etc.
Nancy N. says
Every single elected official in this county is, and has been as long as I can remember, a Republican…and yet you somehow want to blame the building boom and rezoning on BIDEN? Building permits and rezoning are a completely locally controlled process. The only people to blame are the local – REPUBLICAN – officials who are voting for these changes and approving these permits. If you have problems with their choices, vote for someone else. As for what to spend the state appropriation for the westside road on…legally the money has to be spent on that road. It’s not a gift certificate that can be spent on whatever we’d like. We have two choices: use it to build the road, or decline the funds.
Gary says
Anything that Carl Cote or Jason DeLorenzo says must be taken with a major grain of salt. These two are the ones who allowed homes to be built 5 to 6 feet hire then neighboring homes. Then go on the news and say the lower homes have to fix the run off themselves. The lower homes should sue both of them personally for the costs. Carl is on the board of builders and Jayson works with builders that’s why Holland hired him with no background for the job and needing a job. Both of them need to go.
JustBeNice says
Ridiculous! Stop the development for a year, stop the sports’ complex and fix the wastewater treatment plant capacity using those funds. It’s not rocket science. So disheartening that some people are benefiting from the development and the rest of us will be billed for it.
Just thinking ahead 🫠 says
This city would collapse if the impact fees got shut off. They are on a path of destruction and ultimately collapse either way
N. Y says
Why was building allowed in the Wetlands off Colbert Lane& Blare Dr.
Since this was allowed the flooding on Black Alder got into those homes also on Blackwell.
It made it impossible for power crews to work on our under ground utilities. We stayed without power for 5days.
In the 47 years living on Black Bear La. I never saw the water from Blackwell come within 18′ of Black Bear Lane.
Also like to say T. Y. To power crews& PC workers who pumping truck loads of water out.
BIG Neighbor says
I agree neighbor. Being on the edge of Graham Swamp, we couldn’t help but notice the bubbling in the street around the manholes and reminding people to avoid physically contacting the water. Not to pretend I have done my homework on this or attended Town Council meetings or had the water residual tested, but I know systems degrade over time. And when compounded by design changes, things don’t work as they should ALL THE TIME. If the waste distribution system is a closed loop system, my concerns for public safety would be alike Chicken Little’s sky is falling. But when I see the water level for the new retention pond located at the opening of Oak Trails Boulevard stay relatively low when compared to the water being back flowed into my neighborhood while washing out the adjacent bridge and guardrail on Old Kings (enough to close the road), it says to me we got lucky this time. What source caused that road /discharge failure? The entire canal system on the other side of I-95 that loops around Palm Coast and all the displaced ground absorption caused by new development? That’s what I’m seeing……displacement. First land, then people like me. I guess the snarky comment I overheard from one of the folks while loading up sandbags at the end of Oak Trails during our last Hurricane event makes since “….what do you want? You bought on a swamp!” Thanks for enabling, denying the obvious and what looks like the doubling of my utility bill over the last decade.
Mike says
The building moratorium should have passed. The infrastructure was definitely put on the back burner. There should not be any more residential building done until the infrastructure is by far more advanced than the housing. Obvious the greedy developers and certain council members come first!
Rick says
Im in the S section, I’ve decided to sell and move out. The developments are going to ruin the S section area with flooding. Id rather be long gone before that happens. Those woodlands they are destroying is crucial to absorbing water and run off. Once developed goingnto be big issues with flooding.
Mona says
Why , do you think, Alfin is a mayor? Because of the relators of this town. He promised them jobs. And by the way, Palm Coast becomes uglier and uglier every few month. Why the outside air conditioners have to be covered either with plants or gates in all new buildings , although they are parts of the buildings, but garbage cans, recycling beans, other containers can proudly stand in front of the garage doors. With most people moving here from New York, we have more garbage than ever before. How did these people lived where they came from?
John costa says
Klufas the builders best friend !!! Just raise the utility rates to make up
For it !!! Are you delusional??? My water bill is $136 a month and you want more all I can say is stop
This insane building all over palm coast !!!!!lot sizes were 80×125 now there getting away with 50×100 so we can get more houses crammed into less land nobody benefiting from it but the builders not the roads,water system, treatment plants just tax more spend more great job klufas
Lj says
I read nothing about the very long power outages for many residents!
CRB says
Has nothing to do with the City!!!
Do u also know how many didn’t lose power!!! Is this ur first hurricane because we’ve all gone weeks before without power!!!
Some times lineman can’t get to the location for a few reasons! Some damage is way worse then other spots/areas
It’s not like FPL can just flip a switch and boom ur power is back on!! This storm was supposed to rock us and the complaint is WHY WAS POWER PUT FOR 5 DAYS????
Be grateful it wasn’t longer!!! Be grateful you even have power because I promise you the whole state on Sunday was at 97% with power!! And that’s with all devastation Fl has had recently!!! So again be grateful!!! It’s gonna be ok!!!
Gop hates fema says
Privatized gains and socialized losses. Good luck with the water between things like a data center and letting evil companies like nestle buy up the Florida water ;your days are numbered for drinkable water. Not to mention boot licking rons banned terms. Enjoy the show.
The Sour Kraut says
It is telling that nobody would second Pontieri’s motion. Glad Alfin and company are about to be gone, but the damage they did to Palm Coast will live on.
raw says
All-in-all, I thought that the City did a good job of clearing the standing water situation. When you have a foot and a half of rain in such a short time, it takes more time to alleviate the the problem. Folks, in a perfect world none of this would have happened. But, it did happen and it was dealt with by the City work force.
Good job.
CRB says
Thank you!!!! All this ungrateful nonsense is insane to me!!!
This storm was supposed to not be very nice to us and we somehow again managed!!!
All the complaints about why we were asked to conserve the water!! Like hello that’s every single storm they ask that!!! For several reasons that clearly people aren’t aware of or it must have been their first hurricane! Idk
Then those who lost power for what 4-5 days blaming the city!!! Lol
Like what makes u think the city is FPL also!!! And again think outside the box for a sec!!! Fl was destroyed in so many areas and over 3 million without power and by Sunday 97% of Fl was restored!!!
But let’s not think of NC or anything and how they r on weeks right now and have many more weeks to go without power and it’s already started to get cold there!!!
Be grateful people that we here in FLAGLER county were spared on so many levels!!!
But instead of thinking of the whole situation and possibilities let’s just start blaming and complaining!!!!
I can’t handle it anymore!! People really suck!!!!
Katherine Sepe says
An inspector agreed that my swale had to be dredged and it would be put on their calendar. That was more than a YEAR AGO. What happened? I called and was told “we are cleaning up after the hurricane”. I inquired “how many years do you have to wait?” The response was I don’t know, but you can look at the calendar showing the months and year that they are doing a specific area. My area is not on that calendar. I was awake during the hurricane waiting for my overflowing swale to reach the house.
Furthermore, Palm Coast owns the property at the end of my back property line and I have complained several times that the limbs from their pine trees end up on my property after a storm and the under growth is spreading well pass their property line. Once again, no assistance.
Mona says
There is a ditch on the side of my house. It’s almost always empty, only after heavy rain water rises a little bit. About 2, 3 years ago the guy showed up with a heavy equipment to make it deeper end wider. Why wider? He damaged the roots of everything, what was growing on both sides of that ditch and now, all small trees are falling down and roots of many pine trees are exposed. They are still standing, but how much longer? Who sent such incompetent operator, did anybody cared? And whose responsibility will be to pay for fallen trees when Huricane strikes? Not the City, I am sure of that.
Kitty Car says
An inspector agreed that my swale had to be dredged and it would be put on their calendar. That was more than a YEAR AGO. What happened? I called and was told “we are cleaning up after the hurricane”. I inquired “how many years do you have to wait?” The response was I don’t know, but you can look at the calendar showing the months and year that they are doing a specific area. My area is not on that calendar. I was awake during the hurricane waiting for my overflowing swale to reach the house.
Furthermore, Palm Coast owns the property at the end of my back property line and I have complained several times that the limbs from their pine trees end up on my property after a storm and the under growth is spreading well pass their property line. Once again, no assistance.
Alex says
The City of PC has failed its taxpaying property owners that pay their paychecks. They NEVER clean out the storm drains, if you call, they say they have a list and you’re not on it yet. I have been in my house for 22 years and they only came out once and that was 18 years ago. The City of PC has failed property owners over and over and Alfin all he did once elected had builders come in and develop new building everywhere and anywhere to help his bank account. Thank God he is out soon.
It is time for a class action lawsuit against the cities failures to do their jobs properly.
A Concerned Observer says
Palm Coast Utilities are a dismal failure. It cannot provide adequate services today. My water pressure declines most evenings. We were told to restrict flushing our toilets, washing clothes and taking a shower. SERIOUSLY? The storm debris (bags of leaves, grass clippings, downed tree limbs (cut into 2 to 3-foot lengths and tied in a bundle, none of which is from tree trimming, but all from the storm) are still awaiting pickup. Swales always have standing water in them creating a petri-dish for slime and providing a breeding ground for disease carrying mosquitoes. Large sections of Palm Coast rely on PEP Tanks for sewage service because the existing system cannot support the quantity of customers already living in Palm Coast today. This is what we have come to expect from our system. What can we expect when the thousands of new homes already approved by our illustrious public officials are in progress now come on line? The infrastructure to provide these services to all these new customers MUST be in place before the new customers come on line NOT after! Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. The price for new infrastructure MUST be paid for, in advance, by the developers NOT the existing residents of Palm Coast. Of course, that will increase the cost to the developers, so be it. Let them eat it or raise the cost to purchase these homes. If that cuts into their expected profit margin and they decline to pony up in advance, let them look for some other location to rape, ruin and run.
Karen's Kousin says
“It had been scheduled well before Hurricane Milton was a sand devil over West Africa.”
Hurricane Milton formed off the coast of East Central America.
CC says
Raising the rates on water utilities?! Are they freaking kidding me? I pay more for water/sewage than I do electricity. And then they want to send out texts asking to avoid using water during the storm due to shitty infrastructure?! So basically it’s a shit design that no one wants to repair or replace due to cost, even though the people living in it are paying for it. All these asshats need to go. So over Palm Coast.
CRB says
Toodles!!!!
Idk if this was it first hurricane or not but ITS ALWAYS IN EVERY COUNTY asked for us to conserve the water!!!
And keep in mind all the rain we got before storm even hit Fl!!
Eileen Spak says
New developments should not be approved unless the builders pay for infrastructure improvements when development 0plans are submitted for approval . Also limit amount of trees that can be removed from tracts . If the land is stipped of trees . A determined amount must be replanted . Seeing as trees drink large amounts of water . These ideas are a no Brainer for those in charge . Peoples quality of life over immense profits for builders . For the betterment of all .
The dude says
Those in the thrall of MAGA reap what they sow eventually. Always.
This city/town/county has been MAGA run for decades. This is the result.
No amount of Jimbo washing can change that demonstrable fact.
PS says
Swale?
What swale?
Unfortunately, I cannot post pictures. Just visualize water, door to door with no street visible at all. The Bird of Paridise Lake expanded into the neighborhood and 2 homes on one cul de sac about 0.2 miles from the lake flooded that we have seen. At least one more had some water intrusion. BoP flooded at the park and at the Damn.