The Palm Coast City Council today shot down a two-year pilot program that would have permitted up to 25 properties to have backyard chickens in answer to a growing movement across the country toward more self-sufficiency and more natural foods. The most the city will do for now is possibly survey residents on their opinions about backyard chickens.
Surprisingly, the two youngest members of the council–Nick Klufas and Theresa Pontieri–were at opposite poles, Pontieri championing the proposal, Klufas opposing it with unusual vehemence and not a small degree of maneuvering. It was a revealing exchange between the two:
“I can already tell you the headline is going to be that the city of Palm Coast allows chickens. Even though it’s only five permits,” Klufas said, “that’s the fact, is that the city of Palm Coast now allows chicken.”
“I don’t mean that this is not to be facetious, but why do you care?” Pontieri asked him.
“Because you can send emails the same type of way that have been sent in the past, where all of a sudden Nick Klufas supports chickens in Palm Coast,” he said. Were it to go to a referendum, the proposal would sing with 85 percent opposition, he predicted.
“So is your concern that prior inflammatory and false statements that have come from this dais are going to come from here again, and that’s why you’re voting no?” she asked him.
“What I’m saying is that the public’s opinion is 15 percent of people may be okay with chickens, 85 percent of people wouldn’t,” Klufas said. “And the headline, which is not false, that Palm Coast would allow chickens, is something that I can’t have my name attached to. I bluntly told them this because I can’t have my name attached to ‘chickens are allowed in Palm Coast.'”
Them are a very small group of Palm Coast residents, among them Eric Olsen and Josh Fabean, who have met with council members and established a political action committee in hopes of bringing the backyard-chicken proposal to a referendum on the 2024 ballot. That’s what Council members Cathy Heighter and Ed Danko favor. The council in June had already seemed very cool to the idea when it first discussed it in earnest, but was willing to hear further analysis and explore the possibility of a pilot program.
Code Enforcement Manager Barbara Grossman presented that analysis today in what happened to be one of the longest workshops in the council’s history. She did so past the middle of the afternoon. The council had been meeting since 9 a.m. Grossman’s plan would have been a two-year pilot program, permitting 25 backyard chicken coops on a first-come, first-served basis, with a $50 permit fee. There would be a limit of four hens per property. No roosters. Neighbors would have to be informed by letter. The applicants would have to submit a plan outlining coop setbacks of at least 10 feet from the neighboring property, and have a form of manure management. The coops could only be in backyards.
Grossman said her code enforcement officers know of backyard chickens being kept in violation of code. Those property owners would have been allowed to apply for permits, without further penalty, if permits were available.
Obviously, no slaughtering would be allowed (it’s not clear how the city would have enforced that provision), no use of the animals for fighting, no selling of chicken eggs or of their manure. Even if the pilot were to end, residents with backyard chickens who’d have remained in good standing would have been allowed to keep their coops until “attrition” (that is, until the natural death, disappearance, or, presumably, digestion of the chickens). But the permits would be non-transferrable.
To advocates of backyard chickens, the set up would allow for the production of quality eggs, the chickens would have been their own form of pest control, and it would have been a cost-efficient way to enable low-impact husbandry.
But Palm Coast can be set in its ways. Danko said he’s spoken to numerous people, none favoring the initiative. Pontieri said she’s spoken with numerous people, some favoring it. And Heighter, in an unusually detailed discourse, started off speaking of her appreciation for a pilot program as long as it was “managed very well and very closely” (nothing in Palm Coast Code Enforcement isn’t managed very closely), but she wanted neighbors not merely to be notified. She wanted them to have the power of consent before a permit was issued. She was also concerned that “if we give an inch, they take a mile, so if we give 25 people the permit to have chickens in their backyards, you’re going to end up with 100 people that want chickens in their backyards” (though if that were the case, it would suggest much broader support for the program than Heighter and Danko say there is).
Heighter spoke at length in support of the pilot program–only to end on a different note: send it to the ballot.
Pontieri was willing to lower the number of permits issued, and though she thought giving neighbors the power of consent “is a little ridiculous,” she was willing to give on that score, too. “I would be fine with adding that in but I’m very hopeful that our council recognize that we have property rights in this country, and that these property rights are one of the most important things we have,” she said. But she was angling for any type of consensus, as was Mayor David Alfin. She said with some education, residents would be less resistant.
But there was no consensus, and there is to be no ordinance. The closest to some form of agreement on a next step was to solicit public feedback, either through a survey or through town hall meetings hosted by the council members.
“We certainly do not have a consensus to move forward with the pilot program as presented today,” Alfin said, asking instead that the issue become a discussion item i council members’ interactions in the community. “But I’ll be honest,” Klufas said, echoing Danko and Heighter, “outside of the group of advocates for chickens, I haven’t met anyone who wanted chickens in their backyard.”
Heighter proposed what had been proposed a few weeks ago when the council first discussed it: a “community pilot program.” But advocates have not embraced that idea.
“I was told that maybe we could petition the government to give us land that we could start some kind of communist chicken coop,” Fabean had said wryly a few weeks ago. “And then we can throw all the chickens off in the gulags at the end of town. It just doesn’t make sense.”
The council agreed to consider surveying residents, but not before analyzing costs and manner.
The Sour Kraut says
Pontieri needs to have chickens next door to see/smell for herself why most of us don’t want chickens in the back yards of Palm Coast.
Nathan says
Totally. We should make it legal.
DP says
Wow what a half asss way Barbara Grossman came up with the plan. 4 Hens, $ 50 permit,, ( why does everything have to have a fee & permit?) Just another money making venture for the city, and only 25 permits for a population of almost 100,000.0 citizens. And two year puolt program. Boy can you say she set it up for failure. Many other municipalities even as local as Deltona allow back yard chickens. And for all you haters who claim or cry about smell, noise, or wild animals coming around. I say this how much of a smell can 4 hens make, that’s going to be even noticeable?? Oh BTW hens dont crow either. So the noise is irrelevant. Wild animals, we have them now, so what’s any difference???? And lastly, how many homes currently have chickens, and you didn’t even know, notice, or let alone smell!!!! Some comments about cost of coops,, and feed, versus benefit, is just stupid. It’s not your money being spent. Time to relax some of these stupid rules. It’s getting ridiculous!!!!!! YES to back yard chickens!!!!
Cock a doodle do says
So let me get this straight. Me, the guy who drives a work van or work truck to my home so I can fix AC, Plumbing, and Electrical problems of my fellow Flagler County residents gets cited for having a work vehicle in my driveway.
I have to put a sheet over my company truck to hide the decals.
Chickens ? ? ?
Let’s allow goats next. Is this what our elected officials do ?
Nathan says
No, they don’t. You should read the article. Goats aren’t on the docket, and no one is asking for that.
And you should be able to have your van uncovered in your driveway. Both should be legal but well maintained.
Denali says
The majority of folks have no idea how much work is involved with chickens. Aside from daily feeding and watering there is the mess of cleaning the coup and placing new bedding for nests, and chicken really like a clean nest area. A buck or two for a dozen eggs starts to look pretty good. The novelty wears off real fast. Kinds like that Christmas puppy that gets shuffled off to the animal shelter. That coup pictured in the article is half a step above a confined feeding operation, cannot wait for PETA to descend on Palm Coast.
Then there is the issue of heat – how long will a chicken survive in a small coup with a heat index of 115F? Any time the temperature gets over 75F you need to consider cooling the birds. Over 85F, you need good ventilation and misters. A chicken dying from heat stress is not a pretty sight. How many of our urban farmers are going to think that far ahead?
And then who is going to do your farm chores when you decide to go on vacation? My wife’s parents never took a vacation in the 35 years they had animals on the farm. Does not matter if you have four laying hens or 100 milk cows, they need daily care.
As for Pontieri and her ‘property rights’; that is a double edged sword. The adjacent property owners have the right to expect that their property will not be inundated with the smells of a chicken operation and the unwanted visits from the native wildlife looking for a free meal. They also have the right to expect the city to maintain the zoning provisions of the city. What is next? A goat to keep the lawn trimmed? A few sheep for their wool? How about a 1,000 pound bull for next year’s Memorial Day cookout?
TR says
Denali, I couldn’t have said it better myself. you are my new voice of reason on this topic. Mind if I use a few of your comments at the next city council meeting?
Denali says
Knock your socks off ! ! ! With today’s heat index of 117 I am in need of a few birds for the stock pot – – –
TR says
Would also like to add that a coup in the picture costs about 500.00. You know how many eggs on can buy for that money without any hassle. Get off the couch and go to the store and buy the eggs. In the long run they would be a whole lot cheaper with less headache.
Josh Fabean says
I’m glad that you are more concerned for people’s chickens than they are. It seems like you don’t like chickens but I don’t think this was requiring everyone to get them, so you could just not get them and live your life. I see that TR thinks your comments are brilliant but most of them are pretty basic and have easy answers as someone who raised chickens as a kid and knows many people in Palm Coast with chickens already.
It’s hard work. Not really, chickens are one of the easiest animals to keep, much easier than a dog, almost as easy as a cat. And even if it was hard work, why does that mean people aren’t allowed to try. Kids are hard work, I have multiple of those, but somehow they are fed and cared for every day.
It’s too hot in Florida. You know there are farms here, right? In Miami, Orlando, Jacksonville and plenty of others in this heat chickens are allowed. Chickens can survive in hot weather just fine as long as they have shade and water. Once again, people currently have chickens in Palm Coast.
You can’t leave because you have chickens. It’s called having responsibilities, people with dogs and cats have the same issue. There also are plenty of people in the city that can go to your house every other day while you’re out and make sure your chickens have food and water, if you are nice to people you might make friends who can help you out.
If you had read the article or the proposal, it mentions neighbors being notified about your participation in the pilot, if your neighbor was the problem you could report them, and they’d lose their chickens eventually. Chickens are significantly less of a nuisance than dogs, and we allow those, and it’s not a nuisance unless they bark for 20 minutes straight. Four hens do not produce enough smell to bother the neighbors and also in the proposal was that waste had to be put in a fly-proof bin which would also keep the smell away.
Denali says
You truly are a boor. Have you ever been to the farm on a hot humid day? I have spent over thirty years living in farm country around every farm animal you can imagine. Chickens are the worst. Chicken farmers in Florida know how to care for their birds – Joe Blow Palm Coaster only knows what he saw on YouTube. I personally like chickens, especially fryers and layers, and whatever the city decides, it will not change that.
Do not try to set out a smoke screen with domesticated animals and chickens. That is just another big lie red herring.
If there are chickens being harbored illegally in Palm Cost, they should be reported and the birds removed. Simple.
Are you suggesting that chicken manure be placed in our household trash? I am pretty sure that our waste hauler would object to such ‘deposits’ for the health of their workers. Diseases such as E. Coli, Listeria, Salmonella and Campylobacter are not to be taken lightly. These diseases can become airborne very easily and infect an entire neighborhood. Like I said, I do not care, I have spent so much time in farm country I am probably immune.
If reading an article quoting Ponteri and “Chicken People” is your resource, you need to do a bit more research. (No offense to FL.) Better yet, come on up to the farm so you can get a real taste of what it is like, if you think you can handle it . . .
Josh Fabean says
I know you don’t know me of my history, so it’s fine you don’t know, but I literally raised chickens multiple times in my life and grew up working on farms, so yes I know how it works.
No manure would not go in the trash, the proposal says it goes in a fly free container people would use it for fertilizer. You could put it in the trash, don’t people put dog and cat poop in the trash?
I would gladly go help out on a farm, I have butchered chickens on a farm with my hands, so I can handle it.
Denali says
Perhaps you are the exception to the rule here but you are still extremely naive when it comes to the folks who live around you. The average Joe who read a book (if they still do that) will not care for the birds properly (hell, most neglect their domestic animals), the manure will end up in the trash and the neighbors who have the right not to have chickens adjoining their property will be bitching. My biggest concern remains the animal care in the heat. We see too many dogs left out in the super hot weather with no shade or water. I cannot imagine that they will tend their birds any better.
Laurel says
Denali: I know nothing of the diseases you mentioned, but I did remember that my husband knew a man who raised chickens and went blind from an eye disease directly related to the chickens. True story.
Denali says
Laurel – I have heard of a disease called Ocular Histoplasmosis Syndrome but cannot find anything having to do with blindness though I am sure it is possible. The diseases I mentioned while not overly common do show up. A couple of the bigger chicken and turkey operations by us had battles with E. Coli and Listeria over the last few years. Put most of their work forces and families out of commission for weeks.
Laurel says
Denali: Thanks for the common sense and experience! I remember watching Martha Stewart talking about raising chickens. She stated that the expense, and work, outweighs the results of eggs.
K says
Chickems are easier to care for than dogs. There are these schnazzy lil things that hang in their coops called ‘auto-feeders’. They hang to avoid any kind of vermin from finding a quick treat and are auto so owners can go away for a week and chickens are fine and fed. There are deodorizers for coops which prevent rodents and flies… and means you won’t have to clean the coop consistently. But heck, cleaning out a small coop takes literally 10 minutes. Shovel and pour into the compost bin, garden or include it in yard waste trash. Most folks love their hens like a small dog and they even name them cute names.
Having a coop with hardware cloth and shingled roof keep airflow and in tge shade ya never really get hot enough. The hens have regulated temperatures. Plus on hot days, if it is sweltering, a frozen water bottle or two in the coop is a fun treat for hens to stand on and re-regulate. Frozen grapes and other cold food like watermelon are also nice summer treats for hens. It is the winter cold ya have to fear and mostly for the newbies. Again, the feathers truly help. You also assume that most small homesteaders, as we call them nowadays, definitely think ahead. (BTW, PETA is an international animal rights’ coalition so they are already in our city and nearly every city across the USA- Where they usually focus is on the nasty, inhumane chicken house and egg-laying factories where hens sit and lay every day with horrible conditions and lottttts of antibiotics.)
Apparently, with all due respect, it seems you do not know much about raising the simple chicken. Auto-feeders, pet sitters, no problema.
And again, no smell is quite easy. Folks are not raising them by the 1,000s, just by the 2’s. Lets not get ahead of ourselves and be confused. And on the topic of goats. Several individuals used to have goats in this town. Our local grocer with a busstop outside his establishment had a goat. We got ti feed it saltines before the schoolbus came. Kid’s name was craker. No lie.
How you went from a couple of hens to a bull is quite astounding yet unfathomable. People in this town just want healthy, affirdable eggs for theit families after knowing all the lies about “free range ect
Shark says
Why not allow chickens? We have a bunch of jackasses running the town !!!
Bartholomew says
I like your comment.
Concerned Citizen says
This county gets frantic. And calls 911 over gators.
I can see all the uproar coming over chickens.
YankeeExPat says
Cluck You !
The Palm Coast City Council has so much serious issues that need to be worked out!
Go buy your eggs in Winn-Dixie or Publix you friggin Hillbillies!
This is a suburb not the holler !
Nathan says
What the peck, man?! Did you even read the article?
The proposition is one based off of large cities in Florida, the state that you opted to move to. Florida doesn’t have hillbillies, especially not in Orlando.
Denali says
“Florida doesn’t have hillbillies, especially not in Orlando.” Good Grief Man; open your eyes. I see more hillbillies driving through Orlando in 25 minutes than I see spending 6 – 7 hours driving through east Kentucky and Tennessee.
Judy B says
As a person who is not an early riser, I say thank goodness this didn’t pass. If I wanted to live in the country with farm animals, I would have bought a place out in the Mondex (western Flagler County). If these 5 permits had been granted how long before even more would be. Palm Coast keeps changing and not for the better. Now you can have a person buy the house next door and open an Air B&B. So now people want farm animals in addition to the party animals that can come with short term rentals. Thanks to Nick Klufas for voting against this.
Nathan says
This wouldn’t have been a countryside program, but a slow test program based carefully off of similarly sized suburbs and large cities in FL.
Klufas asked us why we hadn’t already just gotten them illegally when we met with him. He even acknowledged all of the benefits and told us they aren’t that hard to maintain, so he’s not exactly the hero that you think he is… just a politician who does what he thinks is election friendly, not what he thinks is correct. With this failing, we’ve lost the ability to regulate existing chickens and gain metrics on what level of nuisance they actually may be.
Many people were waiting for this program to pass so they could do this above the table, but there will be an increase in illegal chickens in town without the ability to study their effect.
Laurel says
Judy B: Well, on second thought, a rooster next door to a short term rental…
FlaPharmTech says
How about goats to keep the ever-growing, pernicious, requisite Florida lawns in check? I’m sick of hearing the gas lawnmowers and weed wackers every stinking day. Gas….not good. Electric better. Goats best. We need to xeriscape across the town. How about a community drop off point to rent electric lawnmowers for those who want to do it themselves? How about an electric mower company to cut lawns on entire streets? How about reaching out to the myriad independent “lawn mowers” in this town to do better for the environment, joining them to be lawn cutters of the future, ELECTRIC. Oooopsie, my bad, this is Palm Doast, as in don’t do what is BEST for Our Community.
Laurel says
FlaPharmTech: I lived in Boca Raton for nearly 20 years, and I can tell you it’s the noisiest town ever, for the very reason you stated here! God forbid their lawn actually grow!
When we moved to the Hammock, I was so charmed by the birds signing and the local church, on Saturdays, practice the carillon. Now it’s the 747 mower landing on our roof. Sucks.
FlaPharmTech says
Hubby and I own a lot in Hammock, hoping to build a very modest home. I am dismayed by the “747 mower landing on your roof”. Just uuugghhhhh!! Hope to meet you some day. Be well.
Bartholomew says
I believe lawn care is one of the biggest industries in Palm Coast. I think it’s hospital government schools real estate and then lawn care. So please, don’t take away our LC s
Seriously, chickens aren’t that difficult on a farm. We are moving to a farm in Pierson that comes with 8 free range hens and 3 roosters. In the city though, I could see problems.
TR says
I for one are not in favor of having chickens within a residential area of PC. If you want to have chickens go live in an unincorporated rural area where it is zoned for it. The people that want these chickens don’t seem to realize they will have to be replacing them every week because of the red tail hawks and bob cats we have in the area. Chickens will be meals for them. I now for a fact that they smell and make noise that I do not want to hear from my neighbors yard on a daily bases.
I for one think that if a pilot program goes to a vote with the residence of PC, it will fail. If it does pass and then it is voted on to be removed in two years, the people that have the chickens with be told they have to get rid of the chickens based on the large number of complaints they will get from others, but then the people that have the chickens will say, ” but these chickens have been a part of our family and we consider them our pets”. then they city will have another fight on their hands.
Shelly says
PC is not an HOA, so let the people have their chickens, I’m all for it even though I have no interest in having chickens. I know alot of PC residents that would be in favor of this.
TR says
According to council member Klaus, there are only 15% of residence in PC that want these chickens, you might now a hand full of the 15%. But in case you want to read some good information on this, go up and read what Denali typed. He/she hit the nail on the head.
Nathan says
Klufas was speculating on what a daytime vote would be on the fly with no information. That wasn’t a hard number, so it shouldn’t be quoted as fact.
It’s a made up statistic; I was there.
Josh Fabean says
That 15% was Klufus making up a number, it might be right, but there is no way of knowing. Klufus also said he thinks people having chickens would be fine, and not cause issues. We have been going to city council multiple times a month all year, been on the radio, multiple articles (front page of Palm Coast Observer) and on FlaglerLive before only one person has ever shown up to city council against chickens. I’m not saying 80% of people WANT chickens or anything like that, but there is no evidence that 85% of people are anti-chicken. Of the people who are anti-chicken I would hope if they read the actual proposal they would be neutral as it addresses all issues that are founded in any level of reason.
Old Rumrunner says
Here’s an early “NO” vote on allowing backyard chickens within the Palm Coast city limits.
If this does make it to a referendum, be mindful of the wording.
jake says
Chickens don’t belong in residential neighborhoods. If allowed, any neighbor with connecting property should have right of first refusal. If the chickens are for consumption, go to Costco or Sam’s Club and buy a $5 rotisserie chicken, it’s considerably cheaper than raising your own.
Nathan says
Chickens belong is residential neighborhoods all over the county, even in metropolitan areas. That’s actually what this plan is based off of.
Nathan says
Correction: *country
County and country communicate very different things, haha!
Doug says
Palm Coast is an example of why I’m glad I live in unincorporated Flagler County. I border a neighborhood that’s in the city limits of Palm Coast, and I can burn my yard debris, have chickens, and do pretty much what I damn well please without any issues. It’s called FREEDOM. I don’t need some transplant, who suddenly feels that because he/she has been elected to a city commission, knows what’s best for the people who grew up in Flagler County telling us what I can have in our yard, and, most likely knows nothing about raising chickens. You should have stayed in whatever big city you came from to impose your “big city” ideologies. Not here.
john stove says
Yup…we agree…..your FREEDOM is to live in a part of the county in which it is acceptable to other neighbors to burn your yard trash, raise chickens etc….
Our FREEDOM was to chose to live in a different setting in which things like yard debris burning and chicken coops are not allowed.
Your FREEDOM shouldn’t impact mine and mine shouldn’t impact yours.
KD says
👍👍👍
KD says
Those thumbs up are meant for you, Doug
Josh Fabean says
Thanks for the article. First my name is Josh Fabean not Fabian, you’ve only heard it said out loud not written down. Also Nathan Phelps and Andrew Werner were the ones at every city council meeting private and public with me fighting for this. What’s not in the article is the fact that Danko, and the mayor all told us to just get chickens and not tell anyone because code enforcement cannot stop it, Klufus asked us why we haven’t done that when we met with him. Danko’s opposition of chickens is that we are not a country town, but Miami city allows for 15 chickens, and I already know of over ten families in this city with chickens. When told that we are asking for hens not roosters, and they’re quieter than the birds that fly over your house, people get less upset about the thought of chickens in this city. Danko between this meeting and when I talked to him on the radio has let me know he’s a communist that wants government ran chicken gulags and thinks the city owns your property not you.
Let us not forget, the two main people against chickens are campaigning for county commissioner. Klufus essentially said that was the reason he could not support it, with very little tact to hiding his reasonings.
By any other name says
Klufas – scared of chickens?
I’m a little oblivious at times, when folks are saying they don’t want chickens in Palm Coast, but major cities allow them, are they really saying they don’t want Hispanics to live here?
Like is this a racist thing?
John Stove says
NO backyard chickens!
Nothing more annoying than the noise and smell of chicken coops. I lived in a city that allowed this in a non rural setting and it was a disaster with the numbers of complaints.
If you live somewhere rural then ok…but not in parts of the city where there is 20-40 feet between houses.
People who have backyard chickens also start to sell extra eggs in front yard “kiosks” with people driving around the neighborhood to buy eggs…..that would be a code violation,
When (not if) a raccoon or fox breaks into the coop to eat a chicken you won’t believe the amount of racket it creates.
If I wanted to live on a farm, I would have moved to the rural part of the state.
Nathan says
I do mean this objectively, so please don’t take it too personally, but this is an uninformed blanket comment on this specific topic. This was a carefully crafted proposal based on cities our size and larger, giving you the opportunity to prove that you’re either right or wrong.
In your own words, some of your concerns are open code violations that would be reported. You would have the power to report it and show the city that we shouldn’t expand or continue the program. If current chicken owners aren’t making kiosks now (there are plenty of secret coops in the city), they won’t start it in a pilot program. If you can’t prove that there is a unique nuisance (worse than current legal pets) to specifically a small amount of chickens in the city, you shouldn’t oppose it.
This provides the opportunity over 2 years for opponents to say, “I told you so.” Any participants would have to notify their neighbors of their chickens, so you could be on high alert of violations if it were to actually affect you. Otherwise they would be in violation of the program. Why are you against the freedom for someone to be wrong and you be right?
john stove says
Sorry…NO……as I stated, I lived in a State/City in which coops were allowed and the number of complaints about the smell and other documented issues with code and city ordinance violations caused the taxpayers to demand and end to the practice.
I am not a code enforcer and I shouldn’t have to be the one to be on “high alert” for anything in my neighborhood…..your actions shouldn’t be a need for me to be contacting the city for violations.
Having chicken coops in the rural part of the county is fine…..We dont want to be downwind of your coop listening to clucking all the time.
Nathan says
This is entire town and its regulations are based off of neighbor reporting. I apologize if “high alert” came across wrong, I simply meant you would know if something was off and where it was coming from. If something smelled wrong for any other reason (trash, dog poop), you would also report that if ti was bad enough.
Nobody is a code enforcer, but if you notice a dire enough violation, you can report it. Your role doesn’t change. You just know where the problem is.
Laurel says
Nathan: I don’t care one way or another which way this particular situation is decided, but please be aware that if one neighbor doesn’t like the chickens, for whatever reasons, legit or not, when he/she calls code enforcement, it cannot be done anonymously. Check with Palm Coast, but I know that in the county, one cannot report anonymously. That means, your chicken owning neighbor knows, and the war begins.
For those who think they can do whatever they want because of *property rights*, look up the word “zoning.”
Other that, cluck away!
TR says
Laurel you are correct you have to give your name in order to have a complaint filed with code enforcement and can no longer report anonymously with what they think is a violation. That’s because the city was getting bombarded with a lot of false reports and a lot of time was wasted sending an CE officer out to check and to find no violation. So now with having to give your name to make a report it makes people put on a pair of big boy pants.
However, you are wrong about the violator finding out who reported them for whatever violation because code enforcement will not tell them who complained. The violator can just guess who reported them for whatever violation they may have committed. So the trick is don’t break the rules and be nice to your neighbors. If you are nice and for some reason you break a rule, your neighbor might just come and talk to you and solve the issue without getting a violation notice from CE.
john stove says
Again…NO…you will NOT find support in the greater community for this.
RAW says
Thank you City Council for making the right decision. Having chickens is the most expensive way to have “free eggs!”
Nathan says
Some people just want pets that are good for their yard and families. Eggs are just a secondary perk to pet ownership and the unique education they provide. I know this because I went to bat for those families.
steve says
Palm coast council only supports chain establishments with retail wages and the Realtor/developer establishment itself. They vote themselves raises, tax increases, and stop the common resident from trying to help themselves by regulating out everything from chickens to yard gardens to cottage bakeries.
Charles says
My guess is this is never going to be allowed.
Nephew Of Uncle Sam says
No chickens now (homeowners responsibility), no wheeled refuse containers (paid for), no EV stations (paid for), no trailers, no boats, no road program, no anything that benefits the citizens. This “city” is going to have a regular problem when they hit 200,000 residents and continue to be the council of NO. I already hear roosters in two parts of my neighborhood in the mornings, guessing this isn’t the only neighborhood with roosters and chickens.
Vincent A. Liguori says
The chicken proposal is a retrograde movement back to the unincorporated days of Palm Coast. The council made a wise decision-hold firm. Chicken approval will lead to other animal requests. To the chicken advocates-majority rules.
Nathan says
I honestly want to know why so many fellow citizens are afraid of an opportunity to prove themselves right? This is intended to be a small sample test to see if “nuisance” concerns are legitimate, or if we just need moderation.
It’s easy to differentiate between chickens and goats or cows. This is actually a movement forward to a more sophisticated approach. As one of the authors and advocates, I can tell you that this is a move towards understanding nuance and finding a balance between Bunnell or Paltka and uninformed stigma.
This is a program based on larger cities as well as similarly sized suburbs as Palm Coast. We did a lot of research to arrive where we did. 25 households (I think roughly 6 ten thousandths of a percent of the households in PC) would have the challenge of proving over the course of 2 years that a maximum of 4 chickens aren’t the problem we are concerned they could be. The proposal is very stringent.
Worst case scenario, you’re correct and the program dies out. We fully respect what some citizens want PC to be, and we’d like to keep it that way for them while allowing what a lot other citizens (many young families) would like as well.
I promise you I advocated for respecting my elders and tenured citizens.
blondee says
HELL NO to chickens!! Plenty of people can’t even keep their yards looking decent, you think they’re going to clean up chicken sh*t???
Andrew says
I appreciate the comments and interaction here. For those not in favor of the council passing this initiative, you should know that the likelihood of having a neighbor with chickens under this pilot program would be 0.005%. You are more likely to have someone who gets chickens on their own without the city’s blessing, than getting a neighbor through this program. There was also an embedded process to get permission or notify your neighbor before they could get approved. It is understandable that some neighbors were never going to be in favor of this and there was always respect for that opinion. However, you cannot blame people for wanting to have chickens for the many reasons that were outlined over that last 6 months. They went through the process, worked with the city, and tried to make this palatable for the few areas it affected. It didn’t pass but it is a precedent for others to observe.
James says
Backyard chicken coups? Perhaps 30 years ago, but not today.
Chicken’s today, cock fights tomorrow.
john stove says
Poultry diseases and transmission to humans (zoonosis):
The main diseases of concern in poultry include:
Salmonellosis
Campylobacteriosis
Chlamydophilosis (psittacosis)
Avian influenza
Birds, manure and feed can all attract pests to small flocks.
Keep bedding dry and remove soiled bedding and wet feed.
Cleanliness will also reduce problems with rodents such as house mice and Norway rats.
Larger pests or predators such as foxes, raccoons and coyotes that already reside in urban areas may take an occasional chicken. However, small flocks kept in any one area are unlikely to attract and sustain any number of predators.
Yeah….NO and HELL NO
Sick of it says
The fact of the matter is chicken coops attract rats no matter how much you clean up the area. So do bird feeders unless you have a way of containing all the dropped seeds. Having first hand experience on this problem i would say nay on chickens.
KD says
👍👍👍