Obama wins, but less decisively than Romney two weeks ago: “After a somewhat nervous first answer, Obama quickly got into his stride. He was the first to go directly on the attack against his opponent, turning to face him as he did so, and went on to throw punch after punch. He pointed out the suspicious vagueness of Romney’s tax plan (“sketchy deal”) got in a cheeky dig at Romney’s wealth (“Your pension is bigger than mine”) and detonated the 47% grenade in his final remarks. For most of the time he seemed more relaxed, friendly and in control of the debate than Romney. His answer on women’s issues was excellent, and a hundred times better than Romney, who spluttered through it with a reference to how he used to let his chief of staff go home early so she could cook for her family. I don’t think this win was as decisive for Obama as Romney’s was last time out, however, because Romney wasn’t as weak. He was ragged at times, awkward at others (“binders full of women”) and displayed a very Romney-esque obsession with the rules which led him to be quite rude to the moderator. But he showed passion and feistiness (too much at times) and gave his supporters some strong moments to cheer. His best answer involved a well-rehearsed and powerfully delivered litany of Obama’s broken economic promises, concluding that while Obama was a nice guy and a good speaker, his policies weren’t working. Obama didn’t quite drive his main arguments home. He seemed to have a theme during the first twenty minutes – that you can’t believe a word this guy says (“What Governor Romney said just isn’t true…”). But then he let it drop. And when a questioner asked about Bush – a gift of a question for the Democrats – he gave a rambling and confusing answer when he should have simply said Romney = Bush. And then said it again.” Ian Leslie in Marbury.
The lame rules for presidential debates: a perfect microcosm of US democracy: “Here then, within this one process of structuring the presidential debates, we have every active ingredient that typically defines, and degrades, US democracy. The two parties collude in secret. The have the same interests and goals. Everything is done to ensure that the political process is completely scripted and devoid of any spontaneity or reality. All views that reside outside the narrow confines of the two parties are rigidly excluded. Anyone who might challenge or subvert the two-party duopoly is rendered invisible. Lobbyists who enrich themselves by peddling their influence run everything behind the scenes. Corporations pay for the process, which they exploit and is then run to bolster rather than threaten their interests. The media’s role is to keep the discourse as restrictive and unthreatening as possible while peddling the delusion that it’s all vibrant and free and independent and unrestrained. And it all ends up distorting political realities far more than illuminating them while wildly exaggerating the choices available to citizens and concealing the similarities between the two parties. To understand the US political process, one can just look to how these sham debates are organized and how they function. This is the same process that repeats itself endlessly in virtually every other political realm.” Glenn Greenwald in The Guardian.
The Cuban missile crisis’s eyeball-to-eyeball myth: “The “eyeball to eyeball” imagery made for great drama (it features in the 2000 movie “13 Days”), but it has contributed to some of our most disastrous foreign policy decisions, from the escalation of the Vietnam War under Johnson to the invasion of Iraq under George W. Bush. […] While researching a 2008 book on the missile crisis, I plotted the positions of Soviet and American ships during this period, on the basis of United States intelligence records. I was stunned to discover that the lead Soviet ship, the Kimovsk, was actually 750 miles away from the blockade line, heading back toward the Soviet Union, at the time of the supposed “eyeball to eyeball” incident. Acting to avert a naval showdown, the Soviet premier, Nikita S. Khrushchev, had turned his missile-carrying freighters around some 30 hours earlier. Kennedy was certainly bracing for an “eyeball to eyeball” moment, but it never happened. There is now plenty of evidence that Kennedy — like Khrushchev — was a lot less steely-eyed than depicted in the initial accounts of the crisis, which were virtually dictated by the White House. Tape-recorded transcripts of White House debates and notes from participants show that Kennedy was prepared to make significant concessions, including a public trade of Soviet missiles in Cuba for American missiles in Turkey and possibly the surrender of the United States naval base at Guantánamo Bay.” Michael Dobbs in the Times.
Half of the Facts You Know Are Probably Wrong: “Since scientific knowledge is still growing by a factor of ten every 50 years, it should not be surprising that lots of facts people learned in school and universities have been overturned and are now out of date. But at what rate do former facts disappear? [Samuel] Arbesman [author of The Half-Life of Facts: Why Everything We Know Has an Expiration Date] applies the concept of half-life, the time required for half the atoms of a given amount of a radioactive substance to disintegrate, to the dissolution of facts. For example, the half-life of the radioactive isotope strontium-90 is just over 29 years. Applying the concept of half-life to facts, Arbesman cites research that looked into the decay in the truth of clinical knowledge about cirrhosis and hepatitis. “The half-life of truth was 45 years,” reported the researchers. In other words, half of what physicians thought they knew about liver diseases was wrong or obsolete 45 years later. As interesting and persuasive as this example is, Arbesman’s book would have been strengthened by more instances drawn from the scientific literature. […] So is there anything we can do to keep up to date with changing facts (other than constantly reading Reason)? Arbesman suggests that simply knowing that our factual knowledge bases have a half-life should keep us humble and always seeking new information. Well, hope springs eternal. More daringly, Arbesman suggests, “Stop memorizing things and just give up. Our individual memories can be outsourced to the cloud.” Through the Internet, we can “search for any fact we need any time.” Really? The Web is great for finding a list of the ten biggest cities in the United States, but if the scientific literature is merely littered with wrong facts, then cyberspace is an enticing quagmire of falsehoods, propaganda, and just plain bunkum. There simply is no substitute for skepticism.” From Reason.
Partisan Polarization Surges in Bush and Obama Years: “As Americans head to the polls this November, their values and basic beliefs are more polarized along partisan lines than at any point in the past 25 years. Unlike in 1987, when this series of surveys began, the values gap between Republicans and Democrats is now greater than gender, age, race or class divides. Overall, there has been much more stability than change across the 48 political values measures that the Pew Research Center has tracked since 1987. But the average partisan gap has nearly doubled over this 25-year period – from 10 percentage points in 1987 to 18 percentage points in the new study. Nearly all of the increases have occurred during the presidencies of George W. Bush and Barack Obama. During this period, both parties’ bases have often been critical of their parties for not standing up for their traditional positions. Currently, 71% of Republicans and 58% of Democrats say their parties have not done a good job in this regard.” From Pew Research.
Flagler Jail bookings, Oct. 16-17, 2012
Jonathan Saunders says
The President was sensational. He absolutely destroyed all of Mitt Romney’s ridiculous arguments. Who ever is attempting to argue that Romney’s plan is “better for people with pre-existing conditions” is fatally mis-informed. There have been major, international, independent studies that not only prove this to be untrue, but show that Mitt Romney’s overall proposed health care “plan” would leave 72 million American people without *any* insurance coverage whatsoever by the year 2020. When you pile this on top of his Racist/Homophobic/Anti-Woman policies it is truly astonishing to imagine that anyone in their right mind would actually think it justifiable voting for him. He and Paul Ryan have voted actually voted, on-record, **against** American women being able to be paid the same rate as American men for the doing the same work. It is 2012. In ten to fifteen years he will be looked back on as a major embarrassment for human/civil rights; not to mention, decency.
glad fly says
rebuttal: barack obama is the most abysmal president this country has ever seen. he has singlehandedly managed to divide this country through his failed management of domestic policies and total collapse of his foreign policy. four more years of his “leadership” will spell doom for the american people. responsible american presidents don’t party with beyonce in manhatten while the iranian president is threatening israel and the united states. responsible american presidents don’t wait two weeks to address the rape,torture and murder of a united states ambassador and call it a “mere bump in the road and as of today he has done NOTHING except apologize to a few middle eastern dictators and totally kill any respectability the united states might have had.
Ben Dover says
Republicans have the nerve to talk about this terror attack that claimed 4 lives , you have got to be kidding me , who `s watch did the 9/11 attacks happen on, and what did that President do , He put the whole Bin Laden family on a plane when all other planes were grounded and flew them back to the middle east , then he lied his way into a war with Iraq claim weapons of Mass Destruction that didn !t exist!!! , Bush and Cheney are responsible not only for all the people who died on 9/11 , but the 6000 thousand young men and women that died over there in that bogus war that cripple our economy, and thats not to mention the thousands of young men and women who lost legs and arms and are mentally broken by being forced to serve 3 and 4 tours of duty . Mean while Bush and Cheney were making money hand over fist because they had ownership in the companies rebuilding everything they blew up, they should be in prison for murder and treason and embezzlement,,I for the life of me cannot understand how they got away with it, there`s a special place in hell for them and their kind, and Romney and Ryan are the same war mongers they are , they will certainly cripple our country beyond repair if elected into office, and start another war with Iran. It took 10 yrs of two wars for Bush to destroy our economy , theres no way with the wars still raging Obama could have fixed it , he stopped one and will stop the other and then our economy will start to turn around, but starting another for the sole purpose of making money like Bush did , will not fix our country , it will destroy it , I can not believe the gall of republicans making a big stink of 4 lives being lost in the middle east after the carnage they have caused geez what color is the sky in your worlds??????
JL says
I do not see how any woman, gay/lesbian, or african American can vote for Romney. If they knew anything at all about the Mormon religion, they would know how ANTI all of these people Mormons are. They believe African Americans are dark skinned as a punishment. (yes, for real) They believe women should remain barefoot and pregnant. Romney is a joke. He did NOT go to Women’s groups and “ask for binders of women”. Women’s groups prepared binders of women’s credentials to provide him and told him he needed to increase the number of women on his staff. But that comment, like most of what comes out of his mouth, is all lies. And if anyone is buying what he’s saying, then they deserve what they get by voting for him. I just hope the country doesn’t pay for it.
I’m not an Obama fan. Not by a longshot. But since I’m reduced to one or the other (in reality, as I do not consider the likes of Roseanne Barr a real contender), I will vote for the President. He may not make things much better, but he has shown me he won’t make things worse. Romney, I KNOW will make things worse. I do not trust him for one second.
Magnolia says
@JL: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says in a new interview that she can’t stand “whining” by women who are unhappy with the work and family choices they’ve made in life and complain that they have no options.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82586.html#ixzz29hwGuw2c
Dorothea says
@Magnolia
I hate (actually I love it) to burst your bubble, but Hillary Clinton was referring to a character in the book, The Catcher in the Rye.
“That still wasn’t good enough for the State Department. Philippe Reines, an adviser to Mrs. Clinton, told The Washington Post that the “whining” comment was made in reference to a question from Ms. Waldman about, of all things, J.D. Salinger’s book “The Catcher in the Rye.” He provided an excerpt from a transcript of the interview…”
Read the entire article from the New York Times:
For Clinton and Marie Claire, Much Ado About Whining
By BEN SISARIO
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/19/for-clinton-and-marie-claire-much-ado-about-whining/
Liana G says
Hyperbole, rigmarole, and rating gimmicks. I’m more concerned with the state of the country than his debate performance.
4 more years so that this guy can “be a little black”. If this guy was any more black he wouldn’t have been selected, much less elected. Right now white flight is a bigger risk factor than white guilt. Rome is burning!
Magnolia says
Obama got caught with his knickers down around his ankles on Libya, even the audience booed. You could see on his face he knew he was caught.
Interestingly, both undecided groups on Fox and MSNBC went for Romney.
Mitt Romney has never failed at anything; our President has failed at just about everything. This is an easy choice for me.
Dorothea says
@Magnolia
It was Romney who go caught with his knickers down over Libya. Candy Crowley did an instant fact-check and reaffirmed what Obama had said in the Rose Garden and informed Romney that he (Romney)was incorrect.
Would you please provide a source for your information about undecided groups. I would be interested in reading about it.
Geezer says
Mittens likes to send American jobs to China via Bain Capitol.
Wait until the Sensata debacle catches some steam.
ROMNEY IS A HYPOCRITE.
And yes, he has failed–he’s failed as a human-being.
He is a LIE MACHINE, a prevaricator of stellar proportion.
Remember S-E-N-S-A-T-A. It’s going to bite Mitt on his pale Mormon, white behind.
Magnolia says
Dorothea: the two undecided groups were at msnbc and fox.
Riley says
@Magnolia. Romney, liar,liar pants on fire.
Clint says
Romney WON by an overwhelming margin. Obama thought he was on” The View ” talking his BS with those
narcissistic air heads.
Magnolia says
I don’t know that anybody won that debate, but I don’t think that matters. You have to look at the records of both men. Those following Romney know that he governed a state, balanced the budget, had the #1 school system in the country and more women in his cabinet. Mitt Romney has never failed at anything.
Right now, that’s the kind of leadership we need.
I saw one man try and tell us what he would do and the other do nothing but try and discredit the candidate. I got very tired of hearing this and suddenly realized this President has no vision.
Geezer says
“Right now, that’s the kind of leadership we need.”
Yeah we need a LIAR IN CHIEF. We need Magic Pants.
ROTFL
Bronx Guy says
Governor Romney won the debate even though POTUS received 3 extra minutes and Candy Crowley not only acted as referee on the LIBYA question but also interrupted Romney 28 times and the POTUS 9 times. Ms. Crowley is a disgrace to the news profession. as she tried to bale out POTUS when he misspoke on LIBYA. BTW, while POTUS may have signed the LILLY LEDBETTER law, the fact remains that women in the White House are paid 78 cents for every dollar paid to their male counterparts. Talk about hypocrisy.
Magnolia says
Romney had to debate both Obama and Crowley. I think most thought he did a pretty good job. Dems have now been given almost 6 minutes more time to speak in the 3 debates. That’s a significant advantage.
Ben Dover says
You know when you go to the movies there`s always the sleazy lying dirtbag in the movie , the one scheming to get the girl , or the job , you know THAT GUY , everyone watching the movie knows hes the bad guy the liar the dirtbag. Thats Mitt Romney he`s THE GUY, everything he says and does screams Hey Look Its Me!!!! and he always has that seedy nick name Biff or in this case Mitt , why is it that everyone knows who he is in the movie , but fails to see him in real life He`s Right There!!!!! Spewing Lies, Scheming, trying to sell you a bag of goods that just can t add up, WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!
Dorothea says
@Bronx Guy, Clint, glad fly and the rest of you sore losers:
President Obama won fair and square. Obama was presidential, poised, and knew his facts, including each time Romney lied, which was every time Romney’s lips’ moved.
Bronx Guy, where do you get your facts? Probably from the Republican sore loser spin machine. Candy Crowley withstood Romney’s ceaseless and childish interruptions with dignity and fairness even when Romney broke many rules that his own team agreed to and formulated for the debate.
Magnolia, the audience actually laughed not booed, when Crowley read the transcript which proved the Romney was wrong, as are you, when the transcript was read. Reruns of parts of the debate have been running all day. Turn off Fox News and watch a few other news channels.
Magnolia says
@Dorothea, that audience caught the prez in a lie and he knew it. Romney was not wrong. Several articles on the internet on this.
Interesting that Obama DOES have assets in the Cayman Islands, as Romney pointed out. And guess who has the larger retirement? OBAMA!
Romney didn’t take a salary as Governor and therefore has no pension.
Dorothea says
@Magnolia
I would have thought we were watching two different debates. I have seen numerous reruns and know that I am right about Obama wiping the floor with Romney on the Libya question. Your articles on the internet were wrong. Here are a few reruns from the New York Times. I don’t hear any boos. The reruns are randomly selected highligts and not all are unfavorable to Romney.
http://www.nytimes.com/video/2012/10/16/us/politics/100000001849619/obama-and-romney-on-attack-in-libya.html#100000001849571
Dorothea says
@Magnolia
What kind of internet articles are you reading? Surely nothing very balanced. Obama is invested in a pension from Illinois. The pension has a few investments in the Cayman Islands, among many. many investments. Pensions are run by a pension board, not by the President. You are right, Romney has no pension, therefore has no excuse other than tax avoidance for investing his personal wealth in the Cayman Islands. Stop looking under rocks for lies by the president. Romney’s lies are a lot easier to find, i.e. everytime he has Romneysia and contradicts himself.
forwardthinker says
Oh you poor misinformed die-hards…… Even when you are looking right at the reality of a situation, i.e. the debate, you still continue to live in a nether world of self induced fantasy. Mitt Romney does not care about the likes of you, me or anyone else that isn’t in the top 1% of this country. I really do believe that no matter what President Obama has done, despite the “in your face” non cooperation by the GOP, will always come down to one thing… RACISM … with a capitol R.
John Boy says
By now it should be clear even to a blind person that Mitt is an angry, bitter, spiteful, bigot and racis typical Mormont. He strikes out at anyone who challenges him and his policies, be it Rick Perry, a black President or any woman and even his dog. He bullies anyone who tries to question his authority, simply shows his poor character and lack of tolerance. I think he was raised very poorly and based on his Mormon faith this should be no surprise to anyone. A total lack of basic manners was evident since the start of his political career, he was probably abused as a child and never developed like a normal teenager. Starting with the stories of his abuse of fellow HS students, continuing the same during college and throughout his professional life. His disdain for women on all issues should tell you the full story about his mental condition.
BeTheAdult says
Okay, let’s take race out of the argument…..
My husband and I are typical middle-class citizens. A few years ago, we were in the 1% category, then the recession hit. I was in sales and my business took a 700% hit and I began losing contracts. Then my retirement took the hit and began losing $$ at an incredible rate. My husband’s company downsized; thank God he kept his job, but lost ALL overtime. I have been unemployed for 2+ years now and can’t even get hired at McDonalds or Taco Bell. I was turned down for a housekeeping position at 2 hospitals for not enough experience. We are on the brink of losing our home; when we NEVER refinanced to take the equity during the housing boom. Forget trying to get a loan modification, they wanted $1800.00 to remodify and my house payment would have increased $200. — That was the Government’s program……
We ended up cancelling our health insurance through my husband’s work, that was $1200 / month. The scary thing about Obama-care is NOT ONCE have I seen where there are safeguards in the program that would STOP the insurance companies from charging those amounts too — NO THANK YOU, I’ll pay the annual fee for NOT being insured.
I have worked my rear off for the past 36 years, to ensure my future and my retirement, only to have ALL of it gone. I don’t understand how people can even CONSIDER re-hiring the president and giving him the opportunity to drive the final nail in our coffin.
I’ll take my chances with a successful businessman than a person whose record for the past 4 years is less than acceptable. You know the saying….”The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.” ~~ Well, I’m not insane, yet!
Riley says
@Be the adult. Thank Bush for your plight. The country went to hell because of him. If you think Romney cares about you, you are sadly mistaken. You are not the 1% anymore. Be glad you will have social security and medicare to keep you out of the poor house.
BeTheAdult says
Mr Riley — If we should blame any previous administration, you’ll have to go back a few years before Bush, that’s when the entitlement programs and ideas were really instilled. That’s an entirely different thread.
Let’s quit blaming and start doing. If you have a complaint then you better darn well have an idea for some type of solution. I, for one, am going back to school (yet again) and redefining myself. Plus, I get to go for free, because I’m now considered poor. :) Wish me luck.
Ben Dover says
I am in the same boat Adult , only I lost my house and can t get a job , the only difference is I know who caused it , I was at Sea Ray Boats , we were building 9 yachts a week , all the over time we could handle , running 24 hrs shifts , life was good, Then they announced Bush won the election, orders were immediately cancelled, we went from 9 boats a week to 5 in a weeks time , the night shift got laid off , then Bush started that senseless war with Iraq, 12 billion dollars a month for 10 yrs, throw in Afghanistan war it almost doubled , and that my dear is what destroyed our economy. I don t care who came in after Bush ,and inherited that huge crap sandwich he made , it took ten yrs to destroy the economy, until both wars are over the bleeding can t stop, Romney want to spend big bucks on military , cause he`s going to war with Iran , that will be the final nail in our coffin and you can take that to the over drawn bank!
jl says
BetheAdult – Seriously? You’re blaming Obama for the crash of the economy? That shows how little you know about what happened, our Government and politics. I am a Republican. Always have been. But I have to admit, the Republicans are to blame for the crash. They allowed the corruption to happen on Wall Street. They allowed the corruption with the bad mortgages. They did not want to bail out the auto industry. Obama inherited this mess. It was spiralling out of control. All the greed of the 1%’ers. As much as I did NOT vote for him the first time around, I cannot put the blame on President Obama. He had a heck of a mess to try and clean up. Did anyone really think we could turn it all around in 4 years? Especially with the way both sides did nothing but bicker and fight? You can take your chances on Romney. Lady, you really need to read up on what Romney did as Governor. He was AGAINST signing the Ledbetter law. Against bailing out the auto industry. He is a mean spiteful man that just wants to rule. But you go ahead and continue living in your fairytale. Obama may not be great, but it beats voting for the Devil.
Stevie Nicks says
Give me a break. I was an Obama supporter in the 2008 election. Not this time. I have waited long enough and nothing new came from him at this debate. It is the same old stuff over and over.
Riley says
@Stevie Nicks. Read the posting directly above yours. Republicans have done every thing they could to slow the economic recovery. Perhaps you also have Romnesia.
terrie says
I am concerned that Romney’s record as governor is not being featured in these races. Since we don’t have a plan, we need to go by what he’s done in the past. Romney CUT jobs, especially teachers- causing schools to increase class sizes. Romney CUT medicaid. Romney INCREASED PROPERTY TAXES.
on top of all of this, he told the Am. people a HUGE lie- he never sought out women for his administration. The “Binder” existed before he was even elected and was pushed for by the women’s organization that put it together.
Read his record, before you vote.
I don’t much care for the binders comment being such a big focus. The focus should come off of the what was said, and the facts should be the focus. The fact is, Gov. Romney did NOT NOT NOT send his staff to seek out women. That “binder” already existed before he was even elected, and it was pushed at him, not sought. This was just an outright lie by Romney.
If people are voting based on misspoken words, that’s so sad. What they should do is look at Romney’s record. That record includes massive job loss in the state of MA (especially teachers, forcing schools to increase classroom size), cuts in Medicaid and a HUGE increase in property taxes.
People should focus on those things, and the fact ath w e have no plan from Romney at all…not a comment
FlaglerLive says
terrie, these two pieces from the Times are instructive:
“Romney Claims of Bipartisanship as Governor Face Challenge” (Oct. 5)
“As Massachusetts Governor, Romney Was Often Away” (Oct. 13)
“As Governor, Romney’s Eagerness to Hire Women Faded” (Oct. 17)
Becky says
Racist? I think Anita Moncrief has a lot to say about that. This woman is amazing and should run for office. Though I really wouldn’t wish that on anyone, especially a black conservative. You should log on Twitter sometime and search black conservative. Many, and the hate directed toward them is horrific. ‘how dare you think for yourself’. Watch and listen to Anita, and you will learn a lot from Anita. A former Hillary supporter, then Obama voter, then..she doesn’t call herself a Republican. I’m sure there will be lots of hate on this site as well. Tolerance. Short supply these days. http://t.co/1b08rjqY
Also, how many of you actually saw the speech from Mitt Romney’s Jane Edmonds, former secty of Workforce. She must have been in one of Mitt’s binders. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CB8QtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXL7wZuHVx9A&ei=VmuFUIGWEIPW9QTZ1oCwDg&usg=AFQjCNG3RxrXxkCF29GHjvj01Gu4nDfINw&sig2=jxKMzoJNKfchws2m5z7MOA