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Palm Coast Council Gives Itself a Few Dollars’ Raise, Thwarting Nobile on Referendum

| February 3, 2016

palm coast council salaries

The Palm Coast City Council Tuesday voted for a raise for future council members, but one that amounted to little more than a symbolic gesture. (© FlaglerLive)

Update: At a subsequent meeting two weeks later, the raise the council voted on at first reading failed to get a second. The raise proposal died.

It was a painful and at times contorted discussion: When the Palm Coast City Council was done debating whether and how to raise its members’ pay, it amounted to little more than a token increase: $228 for the mayor, $228 for council members: essentially, Starbucks money. And there won’t be automatic raises—or “adjustments,” as council members repeatedly, euphemistically put it—in coming years.


Council members Tuesday evening spent nearly an hour debating the issue only to return to the initial proposal of a very modest, almost symbolic increase some of them had first proposed eight minutes into their discussion. It was voted down just then, but brought back up and approved 40 minutes later, with two members changing their mind, an indication of their frustration with getting a consensus for anything more complicated—or politically risky.

The result was yet another defeat for council member Steven Nobile on the second major initiative he’s attempted to lead. His first was a revision of the city charter. In both cases, the same majority of council members thwarted him, though Nobile may be biding his time: all three members will be off the council by November, and nothing says Nobile, who’ll automatically become a senior member of the council, won’t be leading his own majority after that.

A resident late in the discussion proposed putting the question on the ballot or have a special meeting on the issue, designed as a public hearing, to gauge public sentiment. That was a variation on the approach  Nobile favored. The proposal went nowhere.

“This is a little messy because city council has a draft ordinance with two blanks,” Mayor Jon Netts said at the outset, anticipating how messy it would get. “One blank is for what we propose to do for salary adjustments if anything, and then a second blank is for what kind of automatic, incremental changes, or nothing.”

Council members agreed to break up their discussion in two parts, first dealing with the immediate issue of a raise, and second, dealing with subsequent years’ raises.

In the immediate, they had five options: Leave pay as it is; raise current salaries in accordance with the last inflation calculation (resulting in an annual pay increase of $228 for the mayor, to $11,628, and of less than $200 for council members, to $9,792); raise salaries retroactive to the last time the salaries were raised ($13,064 for the mayor, $11,002 for council members); base the salaries on that of the lowest-paid employee in the city ($28,063 for the mayor, $23,782 for council members); or base the salaries on the average wage in the county ($39,397 for the mayor, $33,387 for council members. That’s based on average, not median salaries, so the number is artificially skewed and largely unrepresentative of prevailing wages, which are lower).


A raise in name only, designed to end the discussion.


Council members Bill McGuire and Jason DeLorenzo moved to adopt the second, token option. Both are leaving the council in November, McGuire to retire from local politics and DeLorenzo to either serve on the county commission, if he wins his race, or sit the next couple of years out of politics. Netts, too, will be off the council: he’s term-limited. So none of what they were doing would affect them: what salary changes were approved would not kick in until after the next council is seated in November.

Former council member Alan Peterson, who was on the council when the last raise was approved in 2007, told the council that the salaries should never be tied to employee raises or salaries, because council members are like board members, separate from the administrative operation of the organization they oversee. He suggested a sixth option: to increase salaries by 25 percent. He was not keen on automatic raises, either. “I am not a fan of indexing because it indirectly gives you a raise every year without any public input,” Peterson said. “It’s just automatic and isn’t particularly transparent to the public.”

Vince Liguori, a Palm Coast resident and former member of the Palm Coast Home Rule Coalition, which preceded incorporation in 1999, was critical of the proposed raises in any almost form, calling current salaries in line with similar-sized cities. “The council has concluded that the current salary structure is disproportionate to the time and effort required for public service,” he said. “Does not that statement apply to all who serve in all Florida’s 96 cities? What makes this council unique? You know what the job entails, if you can’t do it, don’t do it.”

Just five people spoke in the public comment period, with four favoring a raise of one type or another (even Liguori  would later clarify to council members that he was not opposed to raises, but that they should be studied and in line with other cities) and one opposed.

When the council voted on the McGuire-DeLorenzo proposal, Netts joined council members Steven Nobile and Heidi Shipley in opposition of the proposal. Nobile’s and Shipley’s vote was not a surprise: they’re the reason the council is discussing the issue to start with. Netts’s vote was not quite a surprise: several months ago he suggested that leaving future council members with a higher salary could be one of his farewell gifts. But he’s mostly played devil’s advocate since—challenging the reasoning behind Shipley’s and Nobile’s push for higher pay—without quite opposing the idea. Monday evening, he finally did: though he had supported increases in 2003 and 2007, “my feeling is,” Netts said, “that we have reached a level where that compensation is adequate and I’m voting no on any increases.”

steven nobile palm coast charter review

Palm Coast council member Steven Nobile. (© FlaglerLive)

“I took this position because I want to work for everybody here, and the only way I could do that was not to think what I personally would like, but what everybody else feels we should have, and I only met two people we shouldn’t get raises at all,” Shipley said. “The rest of the people that I spoke to did not like the idea of $40,000 or $39,000. But it has to be something more than what it is now.” She pushed for the third option—the one that applies an inflation raise retroactive to 2007.

McGuire was willing to second that. It failed, with DeLorenzo, Nobile and Netts opposed. That was followed by Nobile’s attempt to have the council select two or three of the options to be placed on the November ballot as a referendum for residents to vote on. He didn’t get a second, so his motion died.

That’s when, 48 minutes into the discussion, Netts decided to change his mind. “This is getting extraordinarily complicated, and it’s getting messy,” he said. After going through the rules of bringing back an issue that was voted down, he initiated what turned into a re-vote on the initial proposal he’d voted down—the one that would grant a token raise. This time, it passed, 4-1, with just Nobile in dissent. Even Shipley had decided to join the majority, seeing the battle lost for higher pay. “I don’t see this as particularly onerous, but it puts to rest at least for the moment this particular discussion,” Netts said.

It was getting late.

The council then moved to the second part of the ordinance, which also had a set of options—automatic raises based on employee’s rate of raises, automatic raises based on inflation, automatic raises based on the percentage increase awarded county commissioners (an increase provided by state law), or no raise at all, but a discussion on the matter every two years.

A variation on the last option, proposed by Nobile, passed unanimously: no automatic raises in the future.

But the final vote on the matter was on the ordinance as a whole, which encompassed all that the council had agreed to (and disagreed to). The ordinance passed 4-1, with Nobile in dissent.

For all the sound and fury, the real news of the evening was the resilient good humor of council member Bill McGuire, who just last week lost his wife to cancer. He asked only a rare question here and there, but as the salary discussion dragged on interminably, he finally quipped: “It’s Bush’s fault.”

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13 Responses for “Palm Coast Council Gives Itself a Few Dollars’ Raise, Thwarting Nobile on Referendum”

  1. Lin says:

    Does anyone question a government worker voting on their own raise? I do.

    There’s something really wrong with the way this is done, so self-serving.
    These people took the job, now live with the pay.
    For Heidi to say she deserves more than doubling her income to a figure she saw in the Internet is ridiculous.
    Is she worth it? How many hours does she actually work at this Council position?
    Will she perform doubly well if she gets it?
    These people don’t know what public servant means.

  2. Percy's Mother says:

    Obviously Ms. Shipley and Mr. Nobile didn’t understand what they were getting themselves into when they ran for office. I would be happy to accept their resignations based on the fact that neither of them feel they can function as council members with the salaries the people of the City of Palm Coast are willing to pay them.

  3. OldSeaDog says:

    AND WE the PEOPLE elect them to represent US! (Hmmmmmmmmn)
    I think something has gone amiss in this election process……..!

  4. Percy's father says:

    It’s a simple pay for performance situation. Do you want a crappy city government then pay them peanuts and the only members you will have are old retirees that care more about beatification than improving the city. Or pay them enough to make it a full time job and it forces them to delievery results on the elected position

  5. groot says:

    Ha, an empty victory. All that effort that could have been spent returning emails and phone calls from citizens for what is it, $228? What a hoot, how empty and how indicative of the Palm Coast City Council’s new members. Represent your electorate, not your own needs. We can’t even get decent representation from these two and they get chump change. Elect the correct person for mayor and a charter review is a moot point. Percy’s Mother, you hit the nail on the head. But I don’t think that’s the end game here.

  6. Anonymous says:

    This is the problem in ALL parts of Government. First elected officials should NOT look at it as a permanent JOB. You should go their to server NOT serve yourself. next IMO nobody in any part of government should make more then ONE DOLLAR per person they represent or work for!!!

  7. Percy's Mother says:

    Again, I would be happy to accept Mr. Nobile’s and Ms. Shipley’s resignations from the city council since they can’t make ends meet financially as members of the city council. That would allow them to take the 30 hours they’re spending on city council business and direct it towards getting jobs in the private sector where they can get paid what they think they’re worth.

    OR, they could keep the city council jobs on which they spend 30 hours a week AND get jobs in the private sector so as to be able to support their families (as Mr. Nobile says). Then they could do both things. That is, until they’re both voted out when their term limits expire, which is what’s going to happen.

    If either were out in the private sector, they would find that one rarely gets paid what one thinks he/she is worth. Many professionals and entrepreneurs work 70+ hours a week. So, keeping the city council job AND getting a real job is a doable proposition. That would enable them both to SERVE the City AND enable them to support their families.

    Ms. Shipley stated she spoke to people about getting a raise and ONLY TWO people were against it. Well take a look at the comments here, Ms. Shipley. More than two dissent here.

  8. Knightwatch says:

    I think it’s to the credit of the Council that they debated an issue put on the table by council members, one that needed to be aired out, and essentially dealt with it fairly and democratically. Actually, I like this Council. A good balance of skills, perspective and position. I think it represents Palm Coast as a whole, and in my view the city looks good, feels good and is moving in the right direction.

    Oh, and I’m going to sorely miss Netts, DeLorenzo and McGuire. All smart, savvy and sagacious. Good people.

    O.k., ranters … over to you.

  9. groot says:

    The two new members of council have given lip service to their jobs. One has blown off a neighborhood meeting and been short with residents, the other does not returned calls and emails. Now, please pay attention to your constituents or resign. If you don’t like it, just leave.

  10. confidential says:

    The disparity of the pay between county commissioners and city councilmen has no common sense.
    I agree that a realistic raise but not as much as suggested by Epley should be approved for PC Council.
    That is not going to be such a significant bite of our city taxes…as long as our elected councilmen-women will govern for us the taxpayers sustaining our city and not all the time to benefit special interest.
    I believe we pay enough federal and local taxes and just the income and payroll taxes generates 80% http://www.cbpp.org/research/policy-basics-where-do-federal-tax-revenues-come-from , of the tax revenue of our nation, but the problem is how they waste good portion of it in 92 billion corporate welfare versus 59 billion only in our social welfare.http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/ . This is why the increase of poverty, homeless, jobless destitute,uneducated and sick w/no healthcare cost us more at the end. . If we vote into office those that will envision to lobby and pass the fair distribution of the taxes we pay, our American Dream will still be alive for us all.
    The local government administrators pay and their increases are outrageous. I have experienced in one state at least (AZ) that any government administration planned increase has to be put to the people’s referendum. Look at the doubtful justification of some of the FC administrators specially including the school ones payroll just in 2010, 5 years ago….I am not talking teachers but all above them….http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/99999999/MULTIMEDIA/120819889

  11. Anonymous says:

    Here’s my plan-cut Landon’s pay and divide thd cut amount the council members and mayor. Landon is wayyyyy over paid and has proven to be self serving caring nothing about the wants and needs of the people. Hey council members, the more you cut, the more your raise can be!!!

  12. carol says:

    Let’s just get rid of Nobile and Shipley!!!

  13. Freddy says:

    First you get elected to city council. After your term you get elected to county council. After that you try and get elected as a representative in Tallahassee on better yet Florida senate. Then you aspire for US congress or US senate. Next step is run for Governor or President. Did I miss a political step here?

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