Discussion of a possible increase in the local sales surtax sharpy divided opinions between the Flagler County Commission and the Palm Coast City Council, who were meeting jointly today, and divided the two bodies even within their own memberships, suggesting that any possibility of an increase is remote best this year, if that.
“If you need us to pass the half cent sales tax,” tell us, Commissioner Greg Hansen told Mayor David Alfin for the third time at the end of the meeting, shifting the political responsibility to the city. Alfin bristled.
The two governments met jointly for the second time in two months today to talk about whether and how to pay for 57 additional sheriff’s deputies over the next five years. It was not as friendly a meeting as the first last March. This one ended on a note soured by a tense discussion about the sales tax and featured sharp barbs by a commissioner and a council member about the absence of Ed Danko at both meeting. Fellow-Council member Theresa Pontieri said had “removced himself from this discussion.”
It was not as productive a meeting, either, ending with no agreement on new revenue or a joint approach to hiring deputies, and barely some agreement that the formula splitting the cost-sharing of future deputies was fair: Palm Coast would shoulder the cost of about three-quarters of the new deputies, Flagler County would pay for the rest. The split does not account for 911 dispatchers and the sheriff’s civilian employees.
The formula is based on a study the University of North Florida conducted for the Sheriff’s Office that blends various criteria. It diminishes the per-capita approach to determine law enforcement staffing levels, shifting the focus instead on calls for service. In 2022, the typical Flagler County Sheriff’s deputy responded to 308 calls for service in a year, more than in comparable jurisdictions. None of the nine elected officials at today’s meeting contested the formula in the main.
Despite some questions, all seemed to agree that it’s a relatively fair way to devise how many new deputies would be needed every year, though Commission Chair Andy Dance is concerned that the numbers presented today are out of date, and questioned the high number of calls compared with the low crime rate. The calls reflect many more services than responses to crime, including baker Acts and quality of life issues, the sheriff said.
“It’s important that we all have a vision and a plan so that you know what to expect as elected officials and the funding source for public safety,” Sheriff Rick Staly told the elected, “and I’m not coming out as the sheriff, coming in here trying to arm-twist the county for this, arm twist the city for this. If we have a formula, it’s good. Maybe reassess it every three, five years as things change, dynamics change.”
That’s as far as agreement went. But when Palm Coast Interim Manager Lauren Johnston and the Sheriff’s Chief Mark Strobridge presented the numbers the formula produced, the elected balked. The formula calls for Palm Coast to hire an additional nine deputies each of the next three years, then five deputies each of the final two years in the five-year window. It calls for the county to hire three deputies for the next two years, then four, then five and five.
Pontieri was first to say that while she agreed with the formula, she was not prepared to agree to the numbers, nor did she think today’s meeting was intended to write those numbers into the two governments’ budgets. She did not get any disagreement from anyone. Those budgets are in preparation. The sheriff has not submitted his to either government yet.
After the elected got a few questions about the formula answered, Pontieri pushed for more a more substantial step out of today’s meeting. “I obviously agree that we need to go back to the individual boards and discuss this more but I also think we need to make a little bit more headway today,” she told her colleagues. County Commissioner Sullivan had just said that revenue sources are limited, that there’s no possibility of drawing more revenue from property taxes–at least not politically–and possible changes in law, like a looming expansion of the homestead exemption, could shrink local revenue even more.
Pontieri listed the options–property tax, half cent sales tax, “and then anything else anybody wants to propose. I think we need to have a more robust discussion as to the pros and cons of those options before we split again and go back to our boards.” She added: “If we at least come away with some pros and cons and get a feel of where this board lies, then we can go back to our separate boards and decide from that standpoint. This is what we collectively talked about and this is where we want when we come back. This is our official position.”
It was all pros and cons from there, with notable abstentions. Council member Nick Klufas was all for an increase in the sales tax, which would add about $10 million to local coffers, split not quite halfway, with the slightly larger share going to the city ($5.2 million compared to $4.7 million for the county. An earlier version of this article incorrectly reversed the proportion.). Alfin was hesitant, and Council member Cathy Heighter did not take a position.
On the county’s side, Sullivan, Hansen and Commissioner Pennington were supportive. Commissioner Donald O’Brien was not, not in the current climate, nor was Commission Chair Andy Dance–not without a much more deliberate approach with broad public information first.
“In this environment, the sales tax is the worst of the worst issues or options,” O’Brien said. “It will be politicized. It is politicized. And I don’t know how you get around that. And certainly the timeframe doesn’t work for us for this year to do that. I’m not saying it’s not a good option to raise that money, but specifically subjected to the politics that I think it would come under at this time in our county is not healthy.” Rather, he said, if the revenue is needed, “we just need to suck it up and find that money within the [property] taxes and the general fund.” He also pointedly told his Palm Coast colleagues that the decision to raise the tax would fall on the county, not the city, and that the county would take all the heat.
Pontieri called the approach “pandering that should not be acceptable. When we were elected,” she said, “we were elected to make tough decisions based on what we know about our budgets, our cities and our counties’ needs and what it’s going to take to get us the services that we need.” It isn’t just law enforcement. It’s also roads and other priorities that have been short-changed, she said. She concede O’Brien’s point about the political heat–which is what prompted Hansen to make his suggestion: if the city wants the sales tax, it should tell the county, openly and publicly.
The meetings, Alfin replied, are all live-streamed. But that wasn’t what Hansen–who agreed with O’Brien’s points about the matter getting politicized–was getting at. Twice in the last few years the county sought city support for a sales tax increase, neither time too carefully, and twice the initiative failed, one of those times after Danko declared it dead on arrival.
Pennington must have remembered when she said, referring to the joint meetings: “The vice mayor has been absent in both of these and so I’m not sure he’ll show up for yours [meaning the council’s discussion], given the topic. Apparently he’s adult enough to vote for all the growth but not adult enough to come in here and find a solution on how to fund it. So taking it back to your board about the funding mechanism of it, I’m not sure that’s going to help.”
Danko, reached by phone, said he had a doctor’s appointment, set six months ago, scheduled at the same time as the meeting. “You know how hard it is to reschedule a doctor’s appointment,” he said. “It doesn’t mean I’m disconnected from what’s going on and I certainly don’t appreciate the little snide remarks about things like that. In fact today at the city council meeting we even discussed a couple of items about that meeting.” He added: “It’s unbelievable to me how a couple of people take cheap political shots over something like this.”
By the end of today’s meeting, both boards lacked the sort of cohesion that would be encouraging to either. Dance summed up the why of it: I’m leaning with Commissioner O’Brien for a few reasons,” Dance said, though he could previously take credit for successfully getting a sales tax increase for the School Board renewed. “Those were successful because they went to the public and they crafted a plan and they sold it and they actually went out there to the public and asked for their support.” (Dance himself famously and daily campaigned on street corners.)
“It’s different in this regard. We haven’t even gone through all of our budgeting processes yet to be able to substantiate the need based on this year’s budget,” he continued. “We haven’t had the sheriff’s presentation yet, which is coming, yet we’re ready to jump right to a half penny sales tax to solve all of our problems. So I think we have to go through that step, our budgeting process and our budgeting steps based on the current conditions of the economy, to see where we’re at this year. And through those discussions, it may ultimately be warranted but I’m not there yet.”
Billy says
Stop destroying the woodlands and inviting 100,000 people here to live and you wont need any increases!
Atwp says
More tax increases. Good job Republicans. With all the construction in this area, increase the impact fees. Just a suggestion.
JustBeNice says
We’ve got all this new development coming in, why not raise the impact fee?????
Kath says
You will never raise impact fees enough. For what all these new people will uses. Impact fees are one time fee. What do you uses for next year or 5 years down the road .you either need stop growing out.or find new fees for life. Or government needs stop spending, and down size and 40% to 50 % cut across the board. Everyone is see increase in all bills. People have seen increase in all bills by that much. And in some cases even more. Government has already admitted to 30% inflation. We all now it’s a lot more than that. Even at 30% they should be cutting by 40
Shark says
Why don’t we get a real police department and get rid of Staly and his budget draining crew ???
Tim says
Shark , do you know how much of a waste of taxpayer money that will be . Palm coast can’t manage what they have , can you imagine how bad they will run a police department. Pulse what makes you think the Staly won’t try to run that new police department. Can’t think of anything a man with an ego would want to do then be the 1st to start a new department and make a legacy
Joey says
Can’t run it any worse than Staly, Just pissing away our tax dollars on anything that crosses his mind. Before they give him anything they should do an audit to see exactly what his department does.
blondee says
The costs would be astronomical. New vehicles, buildings, specialized equipment, employee insurance, retirement plans. It would never end.
Deborah Coffey says
The Sheriff is not a god. Stop giving him every single thing he asks for! This is really getting ridiculous.
JimboXYZ says
When is all the residential growth going to pay for all of this ? Never ? Who grows the population when inflation is rampant.
Mark says
Palm Coast should have started planning a Palm Coast Police Department back in 1999 if not before incorporation. It’s a City of 100,000+ now and it’s not too late to start thinking maybe that’s the way to go. The Sheriffs office and the State Patrol will always be available as well yet it’s time to bring it in house. Not going to do a full blown department overnight yet just starting a conversation is better than nothing.
James says
“Palm Coast should have started planning a Palm Coast police department back in 1999 if not before incorporation. …”
Palm Coast should have planned for a lot of things… like a sub-department of the water department dedicated to canal maintenance. But apparently they didn’t.
And as far as the establishment of a police department, there has been silent opposition to such a suggestion for many years, if not decades now for whatever reason.
I recall one of the things that was said to me personally (when I first moved here and the topic happened to come up in a casual conversation), was never consider it as a viable solution. It would surely signal the end of Palm Coast.
This, from my landlord of whom I was renting an apartment at the time… so take it from whence it came.
Just say’n.
Tim says
Mark , is it you want to pay more in taxes? It’s bad enough we pay double for fire why should we pay that for police too.
Been here forever says
Why would we increase taxes when inflation is high and people are struggling. How about the Sheriff cut some of the fat from the top and redistribute them to patrol.
The Sour Kraut says
It often seems like Pontieri is the only FPC politician that knows what is going on and is actually working for the people she represents. I fully expect the carpet baggers in office to try to chase her out or otherwise smear her image.
Greg says
The easiest solution might be to STOP the growth! Both the city and county should awash in money with all the added taxes with all the new homes! You know the extra homestead deal will pass this November. Stop the growth and deal with the issues like men, not mice.
Lil Red says
They ask about other revenue sources, what about the TV shows that the sheriff office talks about? Do they get money off being on TV and selling that they are protecting 24/7?
Resident says
Raise the taxes and make it so expensive that no one wants to move here and developers cant make a profit. This area is being ruined by too much growth, lack of infrastructure, crime, and Alfin.
Robjr says
Studies have shown more police does not mean less common crime.
On the other hand renting law enforcement is more cost effective than establishing a police department.
No matter which body, sheriff department or police department, they use the politics of fear to increase their yearly budget.
James says
A sales tax would be a partial solution to Palm Coast’s problems, but again, Palm Coast’s opportunity as far as maximizing tax revenue from a sales tax was in my opinion hampered from it’s inception. As one can deduce from multiple historical photographic evidence…
https://flaglerlive.com/wp-content/uploads/palm-coast-historical-society-1.jpg
https://palmcoasthistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Art-Dycke-Collection-_0423-e1566422742882-scaled.jpg
https://www.gotoby.com/watch-palm-coast-develop-a-birds-eye-view/
… from the very start, the I-95 interchange was poorly implemented.
Or was it?
Again, perhaps another piece of evidence pointing to the original intentions of the “real” ITT development plan for the area.
Florida’s “Main street” is I-95. And so sales tax generating businesses should be aligned in such a way as to facilitate a quick and easy capture of passthrough sales traffic. But this is a little too late to rectify now in my opinion.
ITT envisioned a resort/retirement community of a much smaller scale in 1969-70… they hadn’t planned for the now prosed growth, nor did they consider the emergence of Home Depot or other modern retailers. How many did back in 1969?
Just my opinion.
Ray W. says
Thank you, James, for a reasoned point of view.
I have to wonder whether now is a good time to remind FlaglerLive readers that I remember from my childhood a News-Journal article addressing the fact that the Flagler County commission turned down the chance to host Disney World. I-95, as you put it, was and is Florida’s Main Street. Flagler County was between Jacksonville and Daytona, and a through-point to Miami and the Palm Beaches., which made it a viable place to put a theme park. A huge swamp southwest of Orlando got the park. But Flagler had enough swamp land, too. Imagine the gridlock Flagler County would be today if Disney had persuaded the county to let them in!
James says
Thanks for the compliment Ray… but I just considered what I was saying here and realized (once again) I probably don’t know what I’m talking about.
I realize now that I think about it more, that the I-95 interchange in question probably pre-dates just about everything “Palm Coast” out here… even the very idea of a Palm Coast.
Except perhaps that “airport” which is shown (prominently) even in the first reference photo.
So it would be wrong of me to argue it as some kind of evidence of anything.
Just as if I were to argue that the posture of the fellow in the photo (the newspaper photo), that his pointing downward towards the bottom of his presentation map might imply anything. Such as that the region of development for Palm Coast was originally intended only to be east of I-95. It’s a still photo, if it were a film of the presentation and he continually spoke of Palm Coast while gesturing that way…
then one might make more of the observation.
I must confess that’s what came to mind when I first saw it… that and the airport. Seemed like an area with potential, so I can understand why Disney might have had an interest in it.
I was guessing decommissioned airbase, picked-up at auction for (almost) pennies on the dollar… turns out to be true. The decommissioned airbase part… whether they (whomever “they” is) got it for pennies is just speculation on my part, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did.
It does seem that Palm Coast’s “town center” has shifted west nevertheless.
Just say’n.
Fernando Melendez says
Seems that the likely outcome to this stalemate will come no time soon. There is still much to go through but a few shots have already been taken by our County Commissioners towards Palm Coast in blaming PC for County’s rapid population growth. Blame game has begun, as county tries to finds distancing from funding their fair share of our Law Enforcement. Just as they did recently with our SRO’s School Resource Officers when they tried finding other funding options to fund the Legacy programs. But not once was the Big elephant in the room was addressed by the county or especially by the county chair. The Unnecessary Expenditures, Poor costly policy decision making. That’s why the county is consistently broke.
Leila says
A sales tax is the least painful choice, raising a good amount of money from both residents and visitors. Too many cowards holding office here, and not showing up for these tough decisions.
Let’s not hold the Sheriff’s department hostage here. Grow a pair and do what needs to be done.
Villein says
I think the sheriff needs to chill out. There’s no need to have an army of his own. His budget should increase in line with other departments on average.
Shame on these elected officials for not pushing back. Use your brains and think if this makes sense. Stop doing his dirty work for him and require actual justification for the disproportional increase in resources!
DennisC Rathsam says
TAXES, TAXES,TAXES!!!! Thats all I hear. Its time the city council put thier big boy pants on & start cutting internally! Cut some staff at City Hall, cut some on the road dept, cut some staff at the sheriffs office,too! What would you like retirees to do? Dont EAT?Most of us retired years ago, we live on a fixed income, we are the backbone of this community. Its time you did something for us! Or you just want us to move or die! Its time to give seniors a little hand up! Cut our costs, a little, either garbage, or taxes. Folks 70 & over deserve a break. We are in the twilight of our life, all we have is our home, family, or friends. And the way its going… it doest look like we will servive the constant call for more money! City council got a big raise. Township employees too! Seniors got a hard kick in the ass! One day you all will be in our shoes to choose food or medicine, then sneak in some gas for the car….This used to be a great place to live, now its turning into a nightmare!
Skibum says
Mayor Alfin said the other day that Palm Coast is a “pay as you go” city in response to a citizen’s question about why certain things were not getting done. I think Alfin is being disingenuous and trying to speak out of both sides of his mouth. He has encouraged so much future development, which has increased Palm Coast’s population dramatically. Yet, when the sheriff comes before the council and requests more resources to deal with the increased population, the increased calls for service, and the increasing numbers of visitors to our area, all of which are at least in part due to the huge amount of ongoing commercial and residential development everywhere we look, Alfin says he is not sure he would support an increase in tax revenue to support the sheriff’s office budget requests. Really??? What happened to “pay as you go”? Is Alfin and the city council, as well as the county commission, really that arrogant that they would be allowing all of this unfettered growth in our city and county, and yet hamstringing law enforcement’s efforts to maintain the level of safety for those of use who live and work here? Look at every community that has had a population explosion, and with additional people moving into an area, that increase brings more traffic and also more potential for criminal activity. I would much rather be proactive and stay on top of our law enforcement efforts rather than have our crime stats go up and fall behind in our efforts to maintain the level of safety and security that we have come to expect here in Flagler County. Nothing is free! And as far as I am concerned, money spent to maintain law enforcement services is both a necessity AND money well spent.