The Palm Coast City Council is not interested in spending $1.6 million to lower speed limits citywide from 30 to 25 mph–it would cost that much to change all the signs–and is leery about certain “traffic-calming” devices, whether speed “humps” or traffic islands.
But it will consider a plan that would leave it in residents’ hands to decide whether they want speed humps in their neighborhoods. Residents favoring such calming devices would have to muster majorities to convince the city that their neighborhood warrants humps. Those criteria would be applied citywide, even as the city’s fire chief cautioned against them.
“Anything that calms traffic calms emergency response,” Palm Coast Fire Chief Kyle Berryhill said. “So when we’re talking about traffic-calming options, we believe that speed limits and appropriate speeds are certainly best practice for safety.” Each traffic hump could delay a response by 10 seconds, multiplied over thousands of responses.
Sheriff Rick Staly said he was not opposed to the more elongated traffic humps that are gentler on vehicles (as opposed to traffic bumps), or to lowering speed limits. But he said any approach the city takes must be comprehensive. “It’s got to be a combination of traffic engineering, education and enforcement for it to be effective,” Staly said today. “One without the other is not going to have significant reduction. All it does is allow us to write more tickets or pull more people over.”
The city commissioned a traffic study for all its roads. The study was to look at whether speed limits should be lowered citywide, with a focus on Florida Park Drive and Cimmaron Drive. The urban speed limit set by law is 30 mph, with allowances for lower limits if justified.
The study took data from 48 speed zones and 109 locations. Of those, 17 speed zones met the condition for a 25 mph limit. The lowering of speed limits would have to be uniform. The city won;t lower them in some places and not in others.
Residential roads are those neighborhood roads in subdivisions without white and yellow paint. Fifty-one out of 67 such roads met the condition for a lower speed limit. Collector roads are the more heavily traveled neighborhood roads with yellow and white lines. Eight of 42 such roads met the condition for a lower speed limit.
The consultant presented three options: keep the 30 mph speed limit citywide and have a traffic-calming plan that would enable such things as speed humps or traffic islands if neighborhoods request them, though the rules to get there are not simple. The second option is to reduce speed limits on residential roads citywide to 25 and keep them at 30 for collector roads. But that would cost $1.6 million. Signs are that expensive.
The third option is to lower the speed limits and pay that cost, plus add traffic calming devices such as speed humps and a reduction of the lane width by narrowing the white lines a foot on each side, plus the sort of electronic signs that alert drivers when they’re speeding.
“If I’m looking at $1.6 million, or perhaps $1.6 million-plus in support of the sheriff,” Mayor David Alfin told Manny Rodriguez of Kimley-Horn, the engineering and planning consultant, “if we were to put that towards catching up with deputies, in terms of enforcement, it becomes a slightly different conversation than we’re having today. You’ve done your job, I get it. We have to look at the other side of it as well.”
Florida Park Drive is a collector road. The average speed there is 37, with an average of nine crashes per year. The study did not specify the severity of crashes. The study considered–but did not recommend–two traffic calming devices on Florida Park Drive, such as islands, each of which would cost $250,000. The islands typically do not reduce speeds by more than 2 o 3 miles per hour.
Traffic islands are effective over long stretches of road. “We look at Florida Park Drive,” Manny Rodriguez of Kimley-Horn, the engineering and planning consultant, said, “about 2-mile stretch, installing these two locations, it doesn’t seem to be worth it. We’re spending half a million dollars to reduce the speed three miles per hour maximum.”
Conditions warranting additional stop signs were not met. But the consultant is recommending speed humps for Florida Park Drive. The same findings apply to Cimmaron Drive. A majority of neighbors in proximity of the road where a speed hump would be installed would have to agree to one. In Ormond Beach, Alfin said, residents pay for the speed humps they want installed–and pay for the work when they want them removed. That could be a possibility in Palm Coast.
Seeing “a nuisance” in speed humps, at least to residents surrounding them, Council member Nick Klufas proposed a pilot program rather than a wholesale approach. “It’s evident that we don’t have speed humps on every road that we travel, and there’s a reason for that,” he said.
Cote said the traffic-calming plan would have to be developed first before the city could figure out where and at what cost speed humps would be installed.
“I’m more in favor of lowering the speed limit than I am for speed bumps,” Council member Ed Danko said.
For Council member Theresa Pontieri, she did not want Florida Park Drive and Cimmaron to “commandeer” the conversation. She wants the approach to take in the city as a whole. She favors a traffic-calming plan for the two roads, but based on criteria that would apply to other roads as well. She favors speed humps, as opposed to bumps.
“Yes, any second is crucial when you’re talking about saving a life, I agree. But when we’re looking at the bigger picture, lowering speed limits for people saves lives as well,” Pontieri said. “So I agree with Chief Berryhill, there’s a balance to strike. When I’m looking at the costs to lower speed limits of $1.5 or $1.6 million, as a rough estimate, I can’t justify that to my residents. I can’t do it, especially with all the other expenses that we have. The alternative is a speed hump,” which would cost about $7,500 per hump.
That means the more palatable $22,000 solution for Florida Park Drive than $1.6 million for a citywide lowering of limits. Pontieri said she would keep open the possibility of narrowing Florida Park Drive, but would oppose half-million-dollar traffic islands for the same reason she opposes lowering the speed limits.
Both Pontieri and Danko focused on enforcement. “We need more traffic enforcement of our speed limits on our residential roads,” Pontieri said. “This is not anything new. I’ve asked our sheriff’s office [about] this before and I want to be very clear. I think our sheriff’s office does a fantastic job keeping our community safe but traffic enforcement on our residential roads is so uber-important because we don’t have sidewalks, we have people on bikes, we have people walking, we have pets, kids, it is so crucial that we see an uptick in enforcement.”
Pontieri made a direct connection between the Sheriff’s Office requesting nine additional deputies for policing the city as part of a 20 percent increase in funding, and traffic enforcement. “We could kill two birds with one stone, get our deputies and see some stricter enforcement on our residential roads,” she said.
Staly pointed to the 130 percent increase in traffic enforcement since he took over as sheriff in 2017, and a misperception about speeding and traffic problems. “Many times, not all times, we find that it is perception and not reality,” the sheriff said. “What we do whenever we get a traffic complaint that comes in, we have the cameras we’ll put up, it will track the speed and the date and time, so we can get an average speed, we can then find out what is the best time to do traffic enforcement to have an impact, because just having a deputy sit on a street for six hours is not a good use of resources.”
It isn’t only traffic deputies who conduct traffic enforcement. Every patrol car now has radar and every deputy has been sent to 40-hour radar enforcement class, Staly said. He also cautioned about worsening traffic ahead, as thousands of new residents continue to move in–a projected 40,000 more over the next 11 years.
“My hope is that the city does not set the expectations so high that just lowering the speed limit is the solution, because it’s not,” he said, addressing one of the options. His team is studying the city’s traffic report before issuing its own conclusions.
“It’s really a matter of ROI, return on investment, in terms of how much we spend to get a certain result,” Alfin said. “It’s clear, there’s no perfect solution other than if we have perfect drivers, and then even then we probably have some issues. But we’ll do as best we can with the resources that we prioritize in the budget to make it better than it is today.”
Morris L Eader says
No speed bumps. They damage your vehicles and most people still speed.
Put speed cameras up money talks.
Celia Pugliese says
Danko as usual was wrong in the Observer, the proposal was for humps not bumps! Significant difference between them. Whether cameras or what ever better type of speed and traffic calming better than nothing!
Too bad Mr. Alfin want the city and FPD residents to pay for the humps while he got his/our 50/80 millions for expansion out west benefitting vacant developers lands. We are not preserving the city that attracted us all to move here, its beauty, services and lower taxes…Doing best they can to destroy it. They promote growth that generated all the speeding traffic in FPD and Cimmaron but now Mayor Alfin want us to pay to calm that traffic? What about using the traffic impact fees to pay for the increased growth traffic creating lack of safety, pollution and noise? Instead of using them for expansion out west in vacant lands? So wrong Mayor Alfin as much as current city council and candidate Mr. Klufas in his SOE website profile lobbying again “We have substantially improved cell phone reception within the City and it could be even better if we had a majority of our council willing to vote for an additional tower on our golf course identified by our Master plan” In his statement he forgets or intentionally ignores that the city can’t undo the public owned Palm Harbor Golf Course “covenants” : file:///C:/Users/intam/Downloads/Letter%20to%20City%20Council%20re%20Golf%20Course%20Cell%20Tower%20dated%2001-17-21%20(3).pdf
Pogo says
@As stated
Fernando Melendez says
The only vehicles that will get damaged are the speeders vehicles.
JimboXYZ says
Not necessarily true, those humps are still harder on the suspension system than a flat level road is. And the problem with the humps are that the higher traffic volumes mean more spastic stop & go which is premature brake pad wear. Even on Belle Terre at a stop light, see how long it takes the line of cars to get moving again. wasted fuel and time as usual. As the growth blight of Alfin has taken over, I’m a self imposed 20 mph in my residential. Just because of all the driveways that have 3-4 cars as overutilized unaffordable rental duplex housing has the potential for a car backing out or their idiot child(ren) or the unleashed pet to dart out between their parked cars.
We all know who the speeders are in our residential(s) really, 9 out of 10 times it’s the 4×4 pickup truck or the muscle car with 400+ HP, many of them we all know have a V-8 and 600-700+ HP for a Mustang, Camaro & Challenger. It’s always been the gear heads for the most part. Then there are the impatient single or soccer Mom’s in their economy car or SUV. Motorcyclists too.
Miami North says
Jimbo XYZ
-Couldn’t agree more, 100%.
Speed humps are not the answer.
Actual speed enforcement would be a great start.
NJ says
4X4 and Muscle Cars-NOT!! I have seen too tiny Hondas and Kias Racing thru the neighborhoods!! Lower the Speed Limits to 25mph and take the 1.6 millions from the Two Bridges 0ver the RR tracks to NO Where West! Wake Up Mayor and Use Common Sense OR Resign!
Anonymous says
Come check out the “speeders” on Laguna Forest trail every day! Absolutely insane. I am pretty sure that the majority of the traffic on our residential street goes at a minimum of 45-65mph. It’s so dangerous and someone is going to get seriously hurt and /or killed. PLEASE HELP!
Deirdre says
I think speed humps are a good thing to try, experiment with them on a couple of roads where cars are typically driving too fast, with a sign next to them showing the new speed limit.
Personally, I believe the people that rocket through neighborhoods really don’t care with the speed limit is, but they do care about getting caught.
One of the annoyances as a driver I find is when a school bus lets the kids out they walk on both sides of the street spreading into it (never single file) and are hard to get around, stopping traffic.
Even when it’s not about getting off the bus, if the kids are just socializing they spread out across the road (walking or on bikes), oblivious to the traffic problems they’re causing and the danger they’re putting onto themselves. If they’re in middle or High School good luck asking them to do the right thing.
The people racing through my street are usually teenagers also, which is surprising as there’s so many turns that they can build up speed so fast. Point is, new signs won’t help for anyone who didn’t care about the speed limit in the first place.
The Sour Kraut says
Speed humps (not speed bumps) work well. There were some in my old neighborhood in South Florida and if you were driving at an appropriate speed they were no bother. If you were speeding and hit one you would surely know it! I for one would like to see them on Cimarron and Florida Park.
goladygo says
No humps or bumps on Cimmaron! Average speed during the survey was 37!!!
Shark says
If FCSO did their job we wouldn’t have to waste money speed bumps !!
JimboXYZ says
Maybe if the few that are always the grossest offenders would exercise better judgement & self sanction themselves, FCSO isn’t the problem here. It’s the one neighbor that everyone knows is the habitual & chronic speeder. Everytime, you can hear that village idiot a street or two over from their exhaust systems & the higher RPM’s that vehicle is traveling. I bet it’s a 4×4 truck, a muscle car or a motorcycle that is the one accelerating like that. Tailgating s also one of their bigger. I have a few on my street that it takes about 15-20 seconds after they pulled out of their driveway to hear them on the street over. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out which way they left & where the noise is seconds later. I have no problem with a nicely tuned exhaust, where it goes wrong is putting the accelerator pedal at wide open throttle with 200+ HP for a motorist with a sub 100 IQ.
Jan J. Wolters says
This is America: government does not know what to do (other than getting the votes), so leave it to the people who are mostly ignorant, so, nothing of substance is being done. Same as the debate about hurricane damage handling. Wasting money is the name of the game, but nobody really knows. No investment in our future (thought about your children and grand children?)
Shark says
Where does the circus act running this town come up with these ideas.
Lookie Here says
A sign change is more expensive than a $7,500 speed hump? Gheesh, I need to open a sign shop. I’ll do it for $500 a sign. Installed!
Celia Pugliese says
Is always like that in city engineering overpriced bids galore! We taxpayers getting fleeced. Even the mayor running candidate Mike Norris came out with a incredible much lower priced humps than quoted by Cote or his consultant! We need change in the city from elected to non, as we the residents can’t receive the services we pay for and they are having us pay for growth big time instead.
Lorraine says
I am in agreement with you Celia! We need change! No more realtors, lawyers or developers in any local or city office. Mike Norris has an outstanding resume and extremely qualified for the position of Mayor! Mike Norris definitely has my vote!
MITCH says
We elect leaders to make tough decisions. Putting neighbors at odds with each other over traffic safety in their neighborhood is not a good solution. Either a road’s safety warrants protection from speeding or not! Whether some neighbors would like the protection and others not is not the issue; DOES THE ROAD WARRANT SPEED REDUCTION? Neighborhood wars never end well. Safety is just one issue for traffic calming. There is the issue of Quality-Of-Life of a neighborhood which toxic traffic fumes & dust with damaging traffic noise destroys. Now consider FL PK DR with 7,700 cars per day & 765 trucks per day just 60 feet from the bedrooms of children (3 Million vehicles per year ): what about their health? Traffic Calming also reduces traffic volume, reducing toxic fumes & dust and damaging noise. Look at this way- Safety is protection that might occur – Health is an everyday occurrence, children breathing fumes from 22 to 60 breaths per minute. “Although traffic pollution has an impact on air quality over a large area, people who live closest to highways and other busy roads are most likely to be affected. Long-term exposure to traffic-related air pollution is associated with asthma onset in children and adults, lower respiratory infection in children, and premature death.” How long should we ignore these facts? American Lung Association – https://www.lung.org/clean-air/outdoors/who-is-at-risk
Tired of it says
You are just hoping that if they put speed bumps on Florida Park people will drive on other roads and their children will get to breathe the fumes.
Diane Ramirez says
How about when you call the police to report that your mailbox has been decimated for the third time in two years that the officer responding to the call DOESN’T tell you that the car that crashed into it and did not stop was not speeding? How about the officer DOESN’T tell you that if the cop does not actually physically see a car speeding, that they can’t do anything, even if you had the license plate AND video? “Enforcement is a joke.
Skibum says
Don’t blame the sheriff’s deputies. It is not that they don’t want to help you or make an arrest! There is a little thing called THE LAW, and laws dictate what law enforcement can and cannot do, and when they are legally able to make an arrest. In general terms, law enforcement officers cannot legally make an arrest for a misdemeanor crime or minor traffic offense that was not committed in their presence. If the crime is serious enough that it rises to a felony offense, they have much more legal authority to make an arrest whether they observed the crime or not. People always want to blame “the cop” when it is the citizen who doesn’t know the law and doesn’t know what they are talking about when it comes to legal issues.
Nephew Of Uncle Sam says
” Each traffic hump could delay a response by 10 seconds, multiplied over thousands of responses.”
I’ll call BS on that statement. Thousands of Speed Humps, not speed bumps, across the Nation and they are no problem for other Fire Departments. If the “Hump” is made for 30 MPH you glide right over hardly noticing other than you went up a foot then down. Same for “Speed Dips” if they are designed for the speed. Volusia County has them so maybe a field trip should be planned to talk to the Police and Fire Chiefs over there as to their response times.
Joan says
With all of the traffic that Alfin and his cronies created you won’t be able to even 25 in the next few years !!
Celia Pugliese says
Correct they create and bring all this growth traffic and then wants us the residents to pay for the items to resolve the speed, amount and danger. Very very totalitarian. What are they waiting for more fatalities?
JimboXYZ says
That ship sailed on FL SR-100 where Costco is going in. Speed limit there is 50 mph. So now there is a traffic light at Seminole Woods Parkway, another at Costco. I doubt anyone will ever do more than 25 mph from Costco to I-95 & East of that to Old King’s Road ever again. The exception will be middle of the night when anyone is sleeping & the traffic lights are synced to be green. During any daylight hours 50 mph on SR-100 in that Alfin growth zone will never happen. It’s already gridlock on Sr-100. I figure the 50 mph will be replaced with 35 or even 30 for the club shoppers that need a membership to pay inflationary Biden prices for anything. SR-100 is a narrower version of Daytona’s ISB. Probably turn into SR-44 in NSB or SR 40 in Ormond or Dunlawton in Port Orange. Gridlock & overpopulation is the Alfin vision of 2050. Alfin needs to be voted out, regardless of what anyone finds in an investigation of his growth council voting record. He’s a realtor, a broker and his approvals are tantamount to creating real estate inventory for an I-95 boom town. He stands to make commissions off the inventory of residences he continues to approve.
Sgt.Jim Newburg says
I have lived in Palm Coast for over 2 years now and can say the drivers around here are the worst that I have ever encountered.I have lived all over Florida and in Many other states and overseas and no where comes close to the locals around here.It is definitely not a speed issue,no one ever drives the speed limit,if it a 30mph zone they are doing 15-20mph,Rt 100 they sit in both lanes side by side doing 40mph or less,same as Belle Terre,can’t teally figure put why they have to sit in the lane holding up traffic,think they really just don’t care or give a damn,if you get a little close too them they start waving the middle finger out the window and brake checking,They also don’t know about making a right on the red,not pulling in front of you as you are crossing an intersection and anything else about the rules of the road,I see the Sheriff’s sitting in their Mustangs along Belle Terre,not sure what they are waiting for,certainty not speeders.No we don’t need to spend a dollar on slowing speeds,spend the money on cleaning up the filthy parks and bike lanes and overgrown intersections.
Bob J says
They are sitting there watching their license plate readers hoping to catch someone with a warrant to fill up the big green motel to achieve more income and show they are reducing crime by putting people in jail, and then say they need more cars, equipment, and sheriffs.
Billy B says
I totally agree with you. Never see them in town doing actual traffic enforcement. They are always out on !95 looking for the big drug bust so Staly can get the glory.
Dan says
The situation palm coast has is a rapidly growing community. The speed limits changing will not affect the speeders. We need to widen old kings road to ease traffic congestion. Also more street lights.thats where my tax dollars should go.
Tired of it says
Having lived in a neighborhood with traffic bumps, I know for a fact they don’t work. The speeders just barrel right through them.
When we had our old neighborhood, here in Palm Coast, we didn’t have a problem with speeders, people were courteous, we all knew each other. Thanks to Alfin and his Republican cronies, what we have now are short term rentals with strangers speeding up and down Cimmaron Dr. We now have much higher traffic on two lane roads and the building goes on and on. Yes, traffic bumps will slow down Fire and Police., they will also slow down all the construction vehicles and every second longer that they take will How about fixing the crumbling roads isntead?
dave says
Lowering speeds and humps or bumps. A real fact : people that break the law don’t freaking care, they still will break the law and that includes speeding.
Momma Mia says
Hey, Stacy! How about getting your deputies to do their jobs? The more money they bring in with tickets could pay for more deputies.
By the way, speeding is in all neighborhoods, not just these two. Alfin use your head!
dave says
How about Palm Coast start their own Police Dept and let the County take care of the county. There is now with the big increase in Flagler County and Palm Coast population enough crime and law breakers to go around.
Peter Attas says
In the W section I have never seen any enforcement on local streets. Many residents are going 45 or more on the major roads marked for 30. Construction vehicles and contractors also go as fast as they please. Changing speed limit signs without visible enforcement is just wasting more money.
Despite the many rants on this article this is not a political problem, it is caused by rude and entitled drivers.
Flatsflyer says
Why can’t a vinyl self sticking cover be used on existing signs and posts. Have a local sign shop make up the covering and have city employees do the peel and stick. I would estimate very cheap cost, sign shops do this kind of work day in day out just look at all the vehicles running around town, service trucks, he’ll even Realtors. No need for magnetic backing just stick and peel.
Joe D says
Okay…for Flatsflyer…I agree that the entire Sign and pole for speed limit signs doesn’t have be changed out, but I GUARANTEE that if you just put “peel and stick” speed limit stickers on the existing signs, they would ALL ( or most) be gone within 60 days. Either unsupervised, unsocialized teens, or immature, irresponsible GROWN ADULTS would make it their issue to send a message to the local government by removing/defacing the signs. There should be some way however of bolting or otherwise PERMANENTLY attaching new metal speed plates over the existing signs …while keeping the base original sign…$1.6 million???…let’s get creative (and REASONABLE)!
Dave says
This city has drivers going through red lights, not stopping at stop signs, motorcyclists that violate traffic laws weaving in and out and driving the berm. Almost every time when on Palm Coast Parkway I witness traffic violations and no law enforcement around. Why a city this size and growing, doesn’t have its own police baffles me. There is nothing like being passed on a two lane road through in a residential neighborhood.. Before moving to Palm Coast we lived in a sparsely populated area that was policed by state police. I saw more state police on those roads than I ever see here. Do we subsidize police coverage for the whole county. Lowering speed limits could be counterproductive and speed bumps aren’t the answer. I see many expensive vehicles in this area. I’d swear they aren’t equipped with turn signals or cruise control. Unfortunately, we live in a time where personal want/needs are the are more important than consideration for others. It’s all about me.
Gail D says
Take a ride to older neighborhoods of Gainesville, they use traffic circles to tame speed and allow many streets to connect. Works well.
Steve says
I was just up there and it does work well keeps traffic flowing albeit at slower speeds
vance hoffman says
I don’t think lowering the speed limit will do anything if speeders aren’t getting tickets now why would they care if the limit was 20mph? More police radar in areas where people are complaining it’s pretty simple. We need to try what we available now before throwing money away. Just my 2cents.
Joey says
Just wait a few months and with all of the traffic from new construction you won’t even be able to go 25.
Bob Wiley says
Speed humps in neighborhoods because people drive too fast and yet more than half the town cant seem to go faster than 5-10mph under the speed limit on the rest of the roads. Ironic isn’t it. Anyways, they can waste all the money they want on speed humps, they won’t work. I know this because I’ve been in neighborhoods in Daytona who have them. The city puts them in to shut the towns people up but in reality people still speed before and after them. It’s just a brief inconvenience. Plus for them to actually be effective they would have to put an absolute metric ton of them in. Let’s be real here. Of course that will be an outrageous cost because the council truly knows how to get the pick of the litter when it comes to contractors and cost, SEE: Holland Park. Of course that means the speed humps will be put in and then half won’t be finished and the other half will have to be redone in a year. Cameras won’t work either and aren’t cheap to operate. That’s why we had a rash of red light cameras that suddenly disappeared. It’s comical the things chosen to waste money on but what ya gonna do.
Tony Mac says
Instead of spending money to install new “speed limit” signs, save the taxpayers some much needed dollars and just take down all the old signs. Nobody pays any attention to them anyway. Going 45 on Belle Terre — taking your life in your hands. Palm Coast Parkway — forgetta bout it! It’s not like folks can miss my red truck, it’s that they resent me driving on their road while they are hurrying to the Aldi! I can’t understand why all these geezers are out to kill me or get to the Publix before I do!
Here’s another cost savings — car makers should eliminate the cost of installing turn signals — very few people use them, anyway. Speed bumps will just be a challenge to some folks to see how high their vehicle will fly going over them at 50 or 60 mph.
News of the day — no matter what the politicians, sheriffs and traffic engineers dream up — it ain’t going to slow some people down…as in never./s
Willie says
If you put in speed humps on Florida Park the people will be complaining about the noise when cars go over them too fast, Just get FCSO to do the job we pay them for.
Skibum says
I have to laugh reading a lot of the comments above because whether they realize it or not, many of the people who are commenting are making Sheriff Staly’s argument for him regarding his request to the county for more money so he can hire and equip more deputy sheriffs – that would certainly allow for more traffic deputies and better traffic enforcement in the county to include the city of Palm Coast. Even though we are not in south FL where it is even worse, there are enough knuckleheads right here speeding, racing, driving recklessly or aggressively, as well as distracted drivers and, yes, elderly drivers who can barely see, or hear, or that have very slow reflexes who should no longer be behind the wheel of an automobile. And with the lack of sufficient state troopers patrolling I-95 and other state highways in the county, we DO need more local traffic enforcement to make it safer for all of us who use the roadways.