No Bull, No Fluff, No Smudges
Your news source for
Flagler, Florida and Beyond

The Soft-Core Terrorism
Of Florida’s Gun Worship

| December 16, 2012

Edel Rodriguez’s immediately iconic illustration to a column in the New York Times Sunday.

For some reason Adam Putnam, Florida’s agriculture commissioner and governor wannabe, felt compelled to hold a press conference last week to boast about the number of concealed-carry weapons license holders in the state. That number will top 1 million this week, doubling in just five years.

pierre tristam column flaglerlive The millionth permit will be handed out the same week that we will witness the memorial service for the 27 victims, 20 of them children no older than 7, of the Newtown school massacre, one of the worst acts of domestic terrorism in this country’s history. The act was perpetrated with America’s most common, most worshipped and most protected weapon of mass destruction: the firearm.

Putnam just showed us how common and protected it is, and to what lengths politicians go to enable the arsenal of terrorism. This is one of the ways you make a name for yourself as a politician in Florida: you brandish your gun fetishism and praise its disciples. It is also what lays bare this state’s—this country’s—infantile attitude about guns, whose prevalence (300 million firearms in circulation in the United States) is inversely proportionate to mockeries that pass for gun regulation.

Floridians, Putnam wanted us to know in triumphalist language as he described what he called the “success” of the program, are pulling these permits at the fastest pace in the nation. He brought a chart with him showing the graph line of permits zooming up. I’m glad the line was drawn in red, though I doubt Putnam got the irony, particularly in light of the language he used. “Only” 7,244 licenses have been revoked in the 25-year history of Florida’s concealed-carry program, he said. Only 7,244 licenses were awarded people who abused them or shouldn’t have had them.

Here’s a less triumphal look behind that “only.” Florida has the 15th-highest homicide rate in the nation, with guns accounting for the overwhelming majority of the killings. Duval County alone, which will end the year with more than 100 homicides, has more murders by firearm in a year than in all of Britain, a nation of 63 million. Florida also has one of the highest suicide rates in the country, thanks to firearms, which accounted for 64 percent of the carnage in 2011 (according to Florida’s Vital Statistics Annual Report).

Florida, whose enabling laws go as far as concealing the identity of conceal-carry permit holders, is part of the South’s lethal romance for guns, where trigger-happy gun laws concentrate the nation’s gun violence. But it’s a national disease amplified by a national obsession that doesn’t hesitate to lock and load the words “gun” and “hobby” in the same chamber while vilifying those who’d imply a connection with the consequences: Ten times as many Americans die of firearms, each year, as did on 9/11.

We have a number of gun epidemics in this country. Mass murder is merely the worst of them. Those mass murders—the movie theater massacre in Aurora, the Sikh temple in Wisconsin, the factory in Minneapolis, the mall in Oregon, just this year—do not happen except with guns. And it’s the guns—the guns, not the men wielding them—that make massacres on that scale possible, refuting one of the most cynically idiotic one-liners of the gun fetishist: that people, not guns, kill.

Another miserable one-liner seeks to segregate the problem to law-breaking nut-cases while absolving all law-abiding gun owners, though most killings, including Newtown, are enabled by legally obtained guns. And even as guns claim a life every 20 minutes in this country, state and federal governments continue to let National Rifle Association propaganda derail sensible discussions about guns, let alone sensible gun regulations. As Putnam’s spectacle illustrated so mindlessly, no other civilized country has the variety of laws that treat guns as entitlements.

Or the variety of alternately vile, absurd or survivalist arguments debilitating most discussions about guns. I still sympathize with Edward Abbey’s argument that “the tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police and military are the weapons of dictatorship,” but not that “the rifle is the weapon of democracy.” He’s right to be suspicious of any government that would deny guns to its citizens. But that’s never been the issue here, not even down the imaginary slippery slopes of NRA fantasist. The issue is strict regulation in proportion to the lethality of the objects in question. Firearms have one function, and one function only: to kill. You can dress it up all you like as hunting or target practice or testosterone therapy. It doesn’t change a firearm’s purpose. As Nicholas Kristof notes, ladders, which kill 300 people a year, are more regulated than firearms, while it’s harder to adopt a pet than buy a gun.

On the absurdist side, there’s the invented claim that liberals who’d never tolerate limits on the First Amendment would dance on the grave of the Second. Put aside the fact that slander and libel laws, speech codes, regulations and corporate controls would actually be an excellent model for the way to treat the Second: the fact remains that a word has never killed. Ever. In all of recorded history. And never will. A gun will kill sometime in the minutes before and after you read this piece. The First Amendment is overregulated. The Second is the one dancing on the graves of its victims.

And on the vile side, there’s the insult to humanity we hear after every school massacre: that such things wouldn’t happen if prayer hadn’t been taken out of schools. It is of course an outright lie that prayer has been taken out of school: no child, no individual, is ever denied the right to pray or worship in school. Yet the suggestion that prayer can in any way affect these outcomes is deranged. Perhaps the victims of Hiroshima, Rwanda, 9/11 and Auschwitz should have prayed a little harder, too? If that’s the case—and if anyone can still say that after learning of the manner in which Adam Lanza executed the 6- and 7-year-old children at Sandy Hook Elementary, shooting some of them up to 11 times at point-blank range in his little holocaust—then for god’s own sake, I hope he doesn’t exist, because if it takes praying to such a god to avert these tragedies, it is god himself who deserves the first bullet.

But an epidemic depends on a rich and resilient virus to live on, and gun worship is among the best of them, tallying up a death count in the United States at twice the rate of AIDS. It would make a graphic addition to Putnam’s little chart. That epidemic would not be sustainable without the social and political accomplices of a violent, weapons-solve-all mentality. Nor would it be sustainable without the weapons-worshiping apologists who hide behind Second Amendment dogmas while America’s soft-core terrorism, as apple pie as the munitions next door, kills on.

Pierre Tristam is FlaglerLive’s editor. Reach him by email here or follow him on Twitter. This column is also syndicated through Florida Voices.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

63 Responses for “The Soft-Core Terrorism
Of Florida’s Gun Worship”

  1. ddh says:

    A reason the United States has not been invaded is the enemy knows that everyone owns a gun and knows how to use it..

    • Pierre Tristam says:

      Of course ddh, because having a quasi 51st state as a northern neighbor and a corporate subsidiary as a southern neighbor, with the world’s two biggest oceans east and west, has nothing to do with the nation’s better fortunes. Besides who need invaders when domestic terrorism is more lethal and destructive than anything al Qaeda could ever dream up.

    • Samuel Smith says:

      If the children had been armed this never would have happened

  2. Jim R. says:

    “If there was a God, don’t you think he would have done something about mans degeneracy by now ”
    C ormac Mcarthy

    Huckabee on fox news blames putting God out of the classroom is why things like the massacre in Sandy hook happened. If God is that timid that he lets puny man tell him where he can go then he’s not much of a God.

  3. Al Manfree says:

    The writer makes dramatic claims, but one that he is incapable of making is that of all the gun violence mentioned, and the deaths attributed, none has been committed by a legally licensed concealed weapon permit holder.

    As for his claim that it’s easier to adopt a pet than to purchase a weapon, I would have to disagree. While the actual process of purchasing a weapon may appear simple at the point of sale, it does involve maintaining a law abiding life style for ones entire life. Any misdemeanor or worse crime automatically prohibits one from carrying a concealed weapon, and in most states from easily obtaining a weapon of any kind. As it should be.

    As a CCW holder, I lived my life in a manner that is exemplary and responsible, so I am able to exercise my rights to their fullest. And that includes purchasing a weapon in short order. I’ve earned it.

    It’s simple, if you’re a good citizen, you reap the benefits of life, liberty and the pursuit, as guaranteed by the founders.

    • Nancy N. says:

      All that stuff about how you can’t get a weapon easily after you’ve committed a crime? What cloud city are you living in? Try asking our state DOC how many inmates it has serving time for “felon in possession” of a firearm.

      Try asking William Merrill’s wife how easy it was for her husband – a convicted felon – to assemble an arsenal in their home. Oh wait – you can’t. She’s dead after her husband shot her while playing with his AK-47 in their bathroom.

      The fact that you think your just reward for living a law abiding life as a citizen of this country is that you “earn” the prize to own a tool of death is exactly what the problem is with our culture of violence and guns in this country.

    • Phil says:

      Al, I bet those kids were good citizens, not exactly reaping the benefits of life right now.

  4. Justin says:

    I just punched a gun today, it will be my first one ever I just don’t feel comfortable anymore in my own home without a gun. Everyone I know has a gun, I broght one because I’m the only person that didn’t have one, I believe more people have guns that don’t have them.

    • Anonymous says:

      As a CCW holder if it were feasible to eliminate all the guns in this county I would be all for it. Until then I will continue to be prepared. What if a teacher in Conn. had a weapon? Could the out come have been different? Also, please keep all the victims in your thoughts and prayers. Thank you

  5. Ben Blakely says:

    Pierre: The gunman was mentally retarted and extremely mentally ill. What part of that do you not understand??? So???

    It is the PERSON, not the gun! The same day in China, a man killed SEVEN people with a knife. Why don’t you start trying to pass laws to ban knives!

    • Nancy N. says:

      As the parent of a child with autism, can I just point out that people like you cause me to fear for my child’s future even more than the gun toting nuts in this country. You rant cluelessly about the gunman being “retarted” (an ironic misspelling of retarded) and seem to think that equates with an explanation for his violence. In fact, I’ve not seen one suggestion that the gunman was retarded (in fact, just the opposite), and even if he was, it would not explain him being violent any more than the color of your hair would explain your ignorant behavior. But ignorant people like you persist in believing that people with developmental disabilities like my daughter (and possibly the shooter, as it has been suggested that he may have had autism, not retardation) are somehow unempathetic and prone to violence. And that false perception causes people to treat my daughter and people like her as if they are less than the loving, whole people that they are.

      So what if you are right – people kill people, not guns. Let’s use an analogy. I have a kitten and delicate christmas decorations. If the kitten knocks them off the tree and breaks them, it’s the kitten’s fault, right? But the solution even though it’s not the ornaments’ “fault” is still to put away the christmas ornaments or put them up out of reach so that they won’t get broken. Same thing with guns. The people may be at fault…but if you take the guns out of the equation, it takes away the people’s ability to make the mistake.

      • Geezer says:

        I just added you to my list of “most eloquent commenters” on Flaglerlive.
        Give your daughter a big hug.

      • Pete says:

        @Nancy N. To your comment – Remove the firearms from law abiding citizens? The criminals will still be armed. Then only outlaws will have firearms not the law abiding citizens…………..

  6. Stevie says:

    The effort to spin a mental health and cultural issues into a gun issue is pure fallacy. There is nothing worse than a pen in the hands of skilled writer who appears to be either irrational or cowardly. If someone pulls a gun on your children Mr. Pierre try waving your hands at him and you will end up dead like the lady did who saved all those children. She had grit.

    It is insane to keep children in highly concentrated numbers totally visible to the world.

    Guns save lives also.

    I believe timing of the writer is an evil attempt to take liberty in the name of safety. Pure BS.

    • Chad says:

      Well it is clear by some of these posts, that when we lay gun rights against TWENTY dead first graders and 8 of their teachers…we see what people value. Not even an attempt to claim these children as your own. You will defend a gun and sorry for all your bad luck, but, “It wasn’t me, Man!”

      If anybody really wants to pay tribute to the victims it will be done by doing anything possible to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

  7. Magnolia says:

    The people in this country are not going to give up their guns. The necessary laws are in place, they are not always enforced.

    Americans don’t carry weapons because they worship them, they carry them for protection.

    • Nancy N. says:

      Exactly what law wasn’t legally enforced in the Newtown school massacre that you think should have been enforced to prevent that event? The guns were all legally purchased and registered by the shooter’s mother. They were legally obtained and possessed, right up until the moment that Adam Lanza seized them from his mother and killed 27 people with them.

      • John says:

        Respectfully I disagree. Mr Lanza stole the weapons from his mother (#1 law broken) Mr Lanza brought them on a school campus (#2 law broken) Mr Lanza broke into the school (#3 law broken).
        How did these laws keep him from doing this awful crime? They did not? There are no easy answers here and we should enforce the laws we currently have. Punish severely the ones that break our laws and continue discussing ways to more reasonably better our system with no knee jerk reactions.
        I am sorry for the previous posters speaking ill of your daughter. I know she is wonderful please give her a big hug and educate her, as there are people that could do us harm out there.

  8. daveytickle says:

    Sorry, Pierre. I cannot agree with you. If you would only blind yourself from some of that liberal ideology you are spouting perhaps you might just realize what actually MADE this country what it is. Guns. More correctly, the ownership of guns. We are able to have this interaction online only because we (our ancesters) had and were able to USE firearms. There is a far more insidious enemy out there than the *gun*. That would be anyone trying to disarm the American population!

    • RC says:

      I think I just vomited in my mouth a little bit. Guns are what made this country?!? Yes, we fought back against the British for our independence using guns almost 250 years ago but times have changed. We don’t have muskets any more, we have assault rifles. Our imaginations, hard work and ingenuity is what made this country, not guns. I believe in Americans right to bear arms, in their homes, to protect themselves against intruders. But why the hell do we let people walk around in public with guns? It is INSANE!!! It’s sad that people have to go get a concealed weapons permit to protect themselves from other people walking around with guns. I could go on but I have to go to work.

  9. Yellowstone says:

    Marketing and sales aimed at the gun adicted lunatics is very, very similiar to the sales of tobacco products. Like the tobacco industry, gun manufacturers are among the premier industries in (and made in) America.

    We Americans make lots of money manufacturing products to export overseas that aren’t considered useful in sustaining human life.

    The marketing campaign for guns relies on fear and the mantra, “Your freedoms are being taken away. Get a gun for your protection and because the Second Amendment now briefly allows you to have one (or two – or as many as you like!)”

    Palm Coast will eventually have a Walmart parking lot ‘shoot’em out’ – just wait and see . . .



    I don’t own a gun, never have.

    But I have to take you to task for your tone. You call the pro-gun arguments — and by extension the people making them — vile, absurd and a virus. Such name-calling is uncalled for, and causes a thinking person to question your message. And then you say that for allowing all this horror to happen, God deserves the first bullet.

    Up until that point my thinking was “this guy brooks no opinion other than his” but then, after you said that about my God I became offended. As I said, up until then you were simply expressing an opinion, albeit rife with name-calling, and you have every right to an opinion.

    But you obviously have not studied enough about the Christian God to know what you’re speaking about on this subject.

    The Christian God allows people free will. Some choose to love him; some choose not to. Some choose to not believe in him at all, and some choose to vilify him. And some take the opposite option, choosing evil. I don’t know why those 20 children (and the adults who tried to defend them) were targeted. But I know it was not God who allowed it. Evil in our world is just as strong. There’s a daily battle in our world between good and evil and when people choose evil they are a powerful force for that choice.

    And words can kill. We read often about children driven to suicide by words on a social network. The choice of evil by the people bullying a child online makes their words every bit as responsible for the resulting death as someone who pumps several rounds into a 7-year-old.

  11. The Geode says:

    People are gullible when it comes to their safety. If you think for one moment that you are safe because you have a gun in your house, think of that guy whose house got “home invaded” while he was in the kitchen AND had a shot-gun sitting atop of the refrigerator. Not only would you get robbed, but they will take YOUR gun too. (and sell it on the street) That gun in your face TRUMPS the gun in your waist…..

  12. DoubleGator says:

    I grew up with a BB gun, moved on to a 22, then a 12 guage double barell (too bad the birds were the victims)……….. nostalgia to a by gone era … fools are those who think they need a gun to keep us free ……… these ideas are some ancient ritual to a pagan society ……. enjoy the fruits of your labor…. and the damn fools marched on …….. may those with guns and this morose infatuation…… enjoy the day when the think they need to use it…….. RIP

  13. Deep South says:

    It was not the gun that caused this, put the evil of a mentally disabled person. This man could have used a samuai sword, and still taken lives. Probably not as many, but a few. So please Pierre don’t blame those like me that are respectable gun owners, and are trained and licensed to have guns, and constantly practice for safety, protection, and sport.

    • Nancy N. says:

      Seriously? Again already on this same comment thread with the “evil disabled person” crap?

      Unbelievable that there are this many ignorant bigoted people in the world.

      Or maybe just this many people so desperate to cling to their guns that they will throw an entire class of innocent people under the bus as scapegoats?

      • BFisher says:

        Really, Nancy N.? With all due respect, do you really think anyone who murders a bunch of people, especially children, is sane? Were they not “mentally disabled” at the time? Or do you think the gun talked to the killer and made him do it?

        With any respect due, Geode, we who are legally armed will normally be a lot better off than you and your family will be while you hold out your hands in defense and beg.

        Yellowstone, “briefly allows”?? How about since before the founding of our Country?

        With respect, RC, guns did help to make and keep this country free, but the biggest thing that made this country great was freedom. I would also remind you that the muskets of the 18th century were the most modern “assault” rifles of their day. A very scary number of people commenting on this somewhat asinine, leftist written article seem very willing to waste the hundreds of thousands of lives sacrificed to get and keep our liberties for a very false sense of security. I would suggest you perhaps might be happier moving to countries where private gun ownership is in fact, prohibited; say Cuba, China, North Korea and a few others, or perhaps you should move to New York. Keep in mind the Second Amendment was put in place to give citizens the right to defend against the tyranny of the federal government. Do you all really trust our federal government that much??

  14. Liana G says:

    Pierre wrote, “We have a number of gun epidemics in this country. Mass murder is merely the worst of them.” True. But if we look at the history of mass murders in this country, the worst were committed by our government, with guns – Waco, Kent State, the Native Americans, etc. And the worst were also committed by civilians without the use of guns – Oklahoma bomber, Michael Bray, Eric Rudolph.

    What we do know of the guns used by young Adam Laza is that those guns belonged to his mother, a 52 year old woman and kindergarten teacher. They were not his. But what we do know about the 80 rounds of gun fire used on a unarmed homeless man fleeing for his life, is that those 80 rounds were fired from multiple police weapons on one single poor defenseless citizen.

    Sigmund Freud wrote, “A belligerent state permits itself every such misdeed, every such act of violence, as would disgrace the individual.” It is the message Pierre. A violent culture perpetuated by a violent gov’t begets a violent breed of citizens. But he did also say that, “America is the most grandiose experiment the world has seen, but, I am afraid, it is not going to be a success.”

  15. Pierre Tristam says:

    I said I wouldn’t hold my fire on this one.

    Ben, you’re simply wrong. Adam Lanza was not “mentally ill.” (That goes for Deep South too.) You’re falling into the trap I mentioned that pro-gunners knee-jerk into action the moment a mad act is confused with the man perpetrating it, when it’s more accurately conflated with the mad weaponry that enables the act. But whether the gunman was mentally ill or not is irrelevant, as I point out in the piece. His mother certainly wasn’t. She was a great gun enthusiast, and had passed on the enthusiasm to her son. Somehow the guns weren’t secured. We could learn something from Swiss gun control—a country where guns are more prevalent than anywhere in Europe, but where gun violence is a fraction of ours.

    Stevie, I appreciate your making my point, though you might have chosen a more imaginative analogy than Bernard Shaw’s what-would-you-do-if-your-wife-was-raped-and-murdered question to Dukakis. But you did make my point: we live in a country where the chances of someone pulling a gun on my children is far worse than it was in Beirut. My children are 13 times more likely to be killed by a gun in the United States (the rate is higher in Florida, obviously) than in Europe. And yes, me and my children would be as dead as the children of Newtown and the principal and her staff who tried to intervene. So what’s your point, other than underscoring mine? Those children in Newtown were not “totally visible to the world.” They were in school. The gunman forced his way in. And went to work. Incidentally, you’re welcome to spell out your bullshit next time.

    Magnolia, Americans carry weapons for protection from whom? Liberals? Or from armed idiots? At some point our culture’s mirrors have to bear some accountability.

    Daveytickle, no argument from me on that one. Guns indeed made this country. And guns are mowing it down, unless you consider 30,000 lives a year dispensable.

    Voice of reason, I can assure you that if I brooked no other opinion than my own, you wouldn’t be allowed to write yours here, and especially not behind that convenient and all-too ironic mask of anonymity. You might also want to check what name-calling is. Had I said gun fanatics are fucked up imbeciles who don’t know their ass from their trigger, that would indeed be name-calling. But it wouldn’t be an argument, and it’d be pointless. The words I used and the arguments I filled in to back them up, , with as much evidence as I could marshal in the short space of a column—which is more than I can say for most of the conveniently anonymous comments rattling off here, yours included—are not name calling except in the lexicon of those who can’t be bothered to at least try engaging the discussion on its merits. So we get sermons about tone, because really, “voice of reason,” how dare any of us be outraged by yet another massacre when, by all means, the response to Newtown deserves the sober language of Sunday-school catechism. To which, of course, you turned: never mind the issue of gun rights and gun control. It was the bit about god that tripped you up. I can’t argue with you about god because neither you nor I nor the pope know what we’re talking about anymore than do the lizards in my yard, had their forked tongue managed the odd one-syllable vocabulary, though I can assure you that you have no more ownership of god or how he or she or it may be spoken of than do the Islamist nut cases who would forbid Danish cartoonists from making silly images of Muhammad. I was making an assumption about that presumed god, should he have the gall to exist on such terms, based on how prayer is used or misused in the gun debate. Certain things of course are beyond reason, as this thread makes amply clear. It is gun worship, after all.

    Liana, I think you put in fewer and better words a lot of what I was trying to say.

    I’m sure this isn’t the end of it. And the next massacre can’t be too far off.

    • Mack says:

      No one wants to see the mass-murder of children. It is disgusting and upsetting, to say the least.

      I look at it like this:

      1. The guns are here and they’re not going away. Numerous attempts (e.g. Atlanta Hawks playoff tickets for turning in guns) at removing guns from the street have been attempted. You cannot stop those that want guns from getting guns. It is that way all over the world – the price is just higher in some places than others.

      2. Regulation isn’t the answer; enforcement is. I’ve traveled through many 3rd world countries, some of which use a communist or socialist government. People there were afraid to speak out against their government, let alone own/use a handgun. The latter still happened, but with far less frequency. Do we need to change our beloved democracy into something so oppressive? No – but without enforcement, we have nothing. There is no fear instilled anywhere, and there is definitely little to no respect for law enforcement. We mock our politicians and subsequently each other for our political beliefs, and we use the long arm of religion as a social gavel for judging others. Which leads me to the biggest point…

      3. This is not an issue about the mental health of those committing these acts, nor is it about owning guns. This is a cultural issue. This country was built on freedoms necessary in the 17th century. While we can debate what of those freedoms is necessary 400 years later, the reality is that none of us bring about that change – we write sensational articles (sorry Pierre – as your emotions shined brightly and rather eloquently in this piece, it was over-the-top), then spend time commenting on those articles, but nothing really changes. The children on my block know of other kids in gangs, but being called a “snitch” is worse to them than stopping people executing on violent acts.

      The reality of all of this is that our culture of freedom begets these acts – and whether we want to wear the blame like responsible countrymen or not, it is on all of us to defend those weaker than we are and to set future generations on the course that we may not be able to chart yet.

    • Van says:

      Great rebuttal, Pierre, especially to “Voice of [un]Reason”. Reading most of these comments, except Nancy N. and Liana’s, I’m reminded of something I read many years ago from a late interview with T.S. Eliot. I read it sometime in the ’70s but it was from the early ’60s, since Eliot died in ’65. He was asked how he thought Western civilization would end. “Internecine warfare,” replied TSE. “People shooting each other in the streets.”

      He clearly anticipated (prophesied?) many of the commenters here, who do seem to want exactly that. The pro-gun hardasses have learned no more from this massacre than rock-ribbed Republicans learned from the serial atrocities and crimes of the Bush/Cheney years of national disgrace. In both cases, they want all the madness and mayhem to continue, on steroids. They hide even more stubbornly and idiotically behind their personal arsenals. How many dead children will it take to unwrap the ammo from around their asinine heads? Would 400 kids killed in a school shoot ’em up transform them? Maybe a thousand? I doubt there’s any number that would; they would only more forcefully than ever regurgitate NRA and Ted Nugent talking points. If each of us were forced to carry at least three concealed guns at all times, except maybe while bathing, then everyone would be safe.

      I’m appalled by these commenters, excepting Nancy N., Liana and the few others who seem to comprehend reality. Maybe the most disturbing aspect of this issue is that the NRA zombies will most likely prevail, one way or another. Even if Obama and SOME members of congress begin to act like they have half a brain and stop worshiping the 214 year-old second amendment (very different times and reality back then, Nugent-heads) and pass some laws and uphold regulations regarding guns sales, we will still have over 300 million guns privately owned in this country. No way they’re going to confiscate any of those, much less all of them.

      It really doesn’t matter that much, I’d hazard to say, what they do because the country is armed to the teeth all the way to hell and back already. Still, I hope they begin to pass some very stringent laws inhibiting further auto and semi-automatic gun sales, just to piss off the absurd redneck and blueneck survivalists. On the other hand, do we really want to piss off these deluded paranoiacs even more than they already are? This country has dug intself into a deep hole on this one. It’s almost as certain a dead-end as global warming, which I’m sure most of the defenders of the holy second amendment would still deny is caused by burning fossil fuels. They want to drive their 350 HP monster trucks equipped with fully loaded firearms, in case some awful terrorists come barreling down the road at them.

  16. Outsider says:

    Yes, guns, used with sinister intent make it easier to kill many people at once. So does fertilizer, diesel fuel, matches and a U-haul truck. Never mind I learned the basics,(minus a few key ingredients) of making sarin….in tenth grade chemistry class. There are all sorts of things you can do with that canister of propane you get at WalMart as well. Are we going to ban backyard barbecues and farmers? Lets not forget about Ted Bundy either. People who want to kill will kill; our time would be much better spent on finding out the why’s and the who’s than trying to ban every possible substance and device that could potentially be misused in a violent act.

    • Van says:

      That’s an absurd argument, straight out of the NRA’s little book of justifications for guns all the time everywhere no matter what the consequences. You’re saying that because people have killed othere people with homemade bombs made from fertilizer, diesel fuel, propane, etc. (you forgot sticks and rocks!), then we’d have to ban all those things if we’re going to do anything AT ALL about gun violence. Try telling that to the people at Newtown right now. Go there and lecture them on how silly they are to think guns had anything to do with what hapened. Tell them it’s all about mental illness, and maybe it’s their own fault for not arming all the teachers, as so many of your ilk keep saying. Tell them to all go out and buy lots of guns to keep their kids safe. I’m sure they’ll start to see the good sense of your argument.

      • BFisher says:

        Actually, Van, I would say your arguments are innate and irrational, for the very reasons you state. Are you really so willing to vilify and erase one of the Bill of Rights? How about erasing some more of them? Where are you willing to draw the line on defaming the Constitution or should we just keep the parts you like and ditch the rest? Are you really willing to be more of a serf to the federal government than we already are? Do you really want to spit on the graves of all those who died to put and keep the Constitution in place for our country. Do you really believe you will be safer? You won’t be. As others have rightly pointed out–our society is going down the drain at a very fast rate. While I believe in God, whether you or anyone else does is beside the point–the fact is evil is winning over goodness and has been for quite some time. I’m old enough to remember when prayer was taken out of the schools in the Murray case, an avowed atheist if I recall correctly. How is this relevant? Because too many children (and more with each passing year it seems) are not taught the goodness that comes from most religions (with the exception of Islam in my opinion) and are raised with violent games as their babysitter by more an more single parents who are not able or are unwilling to spend the time teaching their children about good and evil. And all they are taught in too many public schools and especially colleges today is the leftist/liberal myth of a utopia that has never and will never exist. I fought in a war for this country many years ago, but quite honestly I now wonder why. Personally, I have a very high regard for our Constitution and Bill of Rights and thus, I support most of them. If one tumbles, more will follow and I think most people will not like the final result. In fact, like you, I don’t much care for the current state of the country, but most likely for different reasons. Since it looks like New York is about to pass some really stringent gun laws (won’t help anything) maybe you should move back there and be happier than you seem to be in Florida.

  17. DWFerg says:

    The divergence of Opinion above illustrates WHY this remains an unsolved puzzle…A Commission will probably ensue. What has the federal government solved layely ? Osama- Has that eradicated terrorism ? What happens every day in Chicago(and in cities across America) is terrorism. I guess children getting killed in Syria and inparts of africa could be saved by banning guns as well ! Please….

  18. jespo says:

    Foolish attitude that doesn’t help and shows ignorance to what transpired here. Take EVERY GUN off the street and out of the home…someone will build a bomb. Take ALL the bomb making materials off the market and someone will buy knives. Madness will alsys find a way to do harm. Your loathing of guns and certain civil rights is wearing thin….and I’m a Liberal.

  19. Geezer says:


    What a mean and violent society we’ve built. We glorify gore, we flood the market with video games that feature lots of trigger time and exploding heads. How sick is that? Take that shit away from your kids!

    Our society needs to do some soul-searching. It’s easy to tune away from these news stories
    (for many) and continue with the status-quo. Interesting and telling how Americans “forgot” the Virginia Tech massacre. Huh? Yeah, over thirty innocent victims at the hands of a space-cadet and his trusty Glock 19 and Walther P-22. The 20 babies from Sandy Hook may be forgotten too. After all, there is a sad precedent here.

    I’ll bet that Adam Lanza loved his video games. He sure as sh** liked mommy’s Bushmaster AR15.
    I wonder: was he “virtually trained” for this massacre? Lanza didn’t come up with this concept on his own.
    -Somebody else has a patent on that.

    New and stricter regulations are needed. The Kristof article in the NY Times is spot-on.

    • Tango says:


      How about the 1.5 to 2.5 million lawful defensive gun uses that occur each year?

      Even using the artificially inflated statistic of “30,000 victims of gun violence” put out my Millionaires Against Individual Guns (which includes criminals killed in the act of committing a felony), the good to bad ratio is around 60:1.

  20. Geezer says:


    “Florida, whose enabling laws go as far as concealing the identity of conceal-carry permit holders, is part of the South’s lethal romance for guns, where trigger-happy gun laws concentrate the nation’s gun violence.”

    Publishing the names of CCW holders would result in licensees’ homes being burglarized for their firearms.

    My only quibble with this very good article.

  21. Sgt York says:

    America will NEVER ban guns, so get use to it. What we most do is become more helpful and educated about MENTAL ILLNESS. Times have become desperate and dangerous for ALL Americans. Makes NO difference if you live in the ghettos of major cities or in the mountains of Appalachia Almost 90% of the time, crime is caused by mentally disturbed people. Recognizing this disease in people before they commit a crime should be the main goal. If law enforcement can not handle this then maybe its time for a different kind of FORCE…say the Mental Health Squads who instead of emptying their gun magazines into mentally challenged people, they approach the person with a different attitude and use less LETHAL means of subduing the person.

  22. Anon says:

    You are up against an Archie Bunker mentality.

    The mentality that reasons that the airlines should arm all of its passengers then no one will attempt a hijack.

    It’s as American as beer and pizza.

  23. PJ says:


    Ths is not an easy topic of conversation as we all know. However, I can agree on one thing in your article that Adam Putnam was very insensitive to promote the 1 million gun permit this week. With all that said.

    Unless you have had a gun pulled on you to get robbed as I have your opinion may be different.

    I can tell you, that as the robber took my money then said to me with a cold stare “do you believe in God motherf#$%fer” and pulled the trigger anyway, just then a flash of my past was seen in an instant. It’s true what they say about that I guess you see your whole life pass in front of you.

    To both our surprise the gun misfired, then he pulled the trigger again at me and it did not go off again.( it was a revolver the chambers had spent shells except for one. The situation ended in my behalf. A hand to hand fight for both our lives went on for what seemed like an hour but was likely no more than a mnute or two.

    The robber never saw what was coming next as I got my hand on a louisville 52 oz slugger baseball bat. The table quickly turned he got it really good from me but got away as I stumbled.

    I got up found the gun on the floor and chased him to the door but not without me pulling the trigger on the gun which went off but I missed this fool.

    If you believe in God then God saved my life. If you believe in luck then God and Luck saved my life but, I can assure you this had one of those teachers had been armed there would have been a different turn of events.

    Get rid of hi velocity ammo to the public and those large clips but you can’t take away the right of a fully trained and armed American Citizen.

    I was not armed that day and even though he had the drop on me (the experts say don’t try to out draw the guy with the gun)(wait the situation out) I can tell you this had I had a gun on me that day there would have been one less lowlife animal on the street today………PJ

  24. Intheknow says:

    Just curious… How many of these unspeakable horrors have occurred in states with strict gun laws as opposed to states like Florida. As a side bar, I believe both sides have merit.
    We the people need to figure this out without finger pointing.

  25. Richard Moore says:

    Yep, 300 million guns in the country. So, if tomorrow all guns were outlawed, who would voluntarily hand them in? Does anyone really think that someone who intends to do others harm is going to turn in a firearm for a hundred dollar gift certificate, or no incentive at all? So all law abiding citizens turn in their guns and leave the criminal element, who by definition don’t follow the rules of society, armed with a virtual barrel of fish to pick from.

    Woud the world be better without firearms? Sure, but the problem is they are already here. I’m sure we’d all like a world where conflict would be resolved by paper, rock, scissors or a good thumb wrestling match, but alas, that is certainly not the world we live in.

    Additionally, all reports I’ve read thus far state that Adam Lanza was autistic and on SSRIs, which in a small percentage of the population, causes violent behavior. Oh, wait, ALL of the recent mass shooters in this country have been on either SSRIs or another type of antidepressant. On average the pharmaceutical industry kills 100,000 people a year, why are we not calling for a ban or better testing of all the “legal” drugs?

  26. anonymous 2 says:

    Yes, the sad result of this massacre is the lives of the 26 innocent people who just went to school that day. As a teacher, a mom, and a mom of a child with autism, I know that this is insanity- no sane person would do this; I don’t really know the reasonings behind him doing this horrific act- people with Aspbergers due not equate people who kill though.

    Purely and simply, if someone wants to kill someone, they will do it. Timothy McVeigh took out many more people than this and in that number there were many precious babies. The Twin Towers were brought down by planes and not guns. The Columbine students were fortunate that the bombs created by those two evil perpertrators did not go off or the number would have been even larger than 15. The Chinese man who stabbed 22 used a knife, not a gun.

    Outlawing guns is not an answer. We need to become a nation of morals and values again. Too many children are being brought up to hear it’s someone else’s fault, not the fact that their child didn’t listen and suffered a consequence. We need children to learn right and wrong and realize that yes, there are consequences. Too many children are left home alone after school to be raised by shows like Jersey Shore or Teen Mom; to surf the net without anyone watching them. I realize that not everyone can afford to have a parent home all the time. However, we need to find ways to keep students involved after school in programs that keep them out of trouble.

    I still believe in owning a gun- the criminals wouldn’t turn them in and would still be able to kill you. Ask cops how many of those who have come up against one with a gun if they obtained them legally?

    My prayers are with those families and other children who wil suffer for a long time from the psychological effects of this horrific crime.

  27. anonymous says:

    I have not read all the comments.But Pierre Tristam to say This person did not have a mental issue is insane.He may not have been diagnosed with a mental issue but the signs were there and the family missed them or just hoped they would go away.
    I am a gun owner and own guns similar to ones used.I agree this is a real tragedy. Something needs to be done.Gun bans and bans on high capacity mags is not the answer.
    Mental health needs to be looked at
    The media needs to look at how they report these things they are in such a hurry to report the put out in proper info.
    More people die every year from smoking . But yet you can still buy cigarettes.More people die from automobile accidents. But yet you can buy cars that can still buy cars that can do double the speed limit.This is OK because its one or two people at a time.But the bottom line is people still die weather its from a person with mental issues and a gun ,a cigarette, or a speeding car.

    • Nancy N. says:

      Excellent point bringing up the continued availability of cigarettes. Because it has something in common with the continued availability of guns in this country – billion dollar corporations with extremely well paid lobbyists who control millions of dollars in political contributions.

  28. BRW says:

    Pierre …

    With your following comment …

    “then for god’s own sake, I hope he doesn’t exist, because if it takes praying to such a god to avert these tragedies, it is god himself who deserves the first bullet”

    … I have decided to never again access your website for local Palm Coast information. NEVER AGAIN.

    In a round about manner, you’ve hinted at not having a political agenda / politcal affiliation with either the Repubican or Democratic Parties, but to be honest with you, I think you are a hardcore Liberal Democrat as per what you spout here on this tiny little electronic rag.

    But your clear animosity toward God, in calling for Him to take the “first bullet” identifies you as nothing more than an angry atheist / agnostic Liberal with no clue about Faith. None.


    Palm Coast

    • Geezer says:

      BRW overlooked the fact that you neglected to capitalize the “g” in god.
      You’re a bad boy Pierre.


    • To BRW says:

      Just because a person has opinions that you do not like you are going to ignore his articles that he writes without bias? This is the best website for updated, quick, free, Flagler County information and everyone knows it. If you can’t put your religion aside to be quickly informed about the outside world, then I am speechless.

      But then again, maybe Pierre and I are just the scum of the earth and are damned to hell. Sucks to be us

  29. JoJo says:

    @ anonymous says:
    December 17, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    …Until it’s your family member that dies in a garage?

  30. Deep South says:

    What about the drunk drivers that get behind the wheel of a vehicle, and turn it into a deadly weapon and killed innocent people, should we ban cars too ?

    • Van says:

      And what about the fact that people can kill each other with their bare hands? Should we all line up and get our hands amputated? Also our feet. It’s happened, a person can get kicked to death, too. Maybe we should all get our feet amputated while we’re at it. I heard of a case where a woman bit a man to death. We should all have our teeth pulled. And there was the case where the guy used his big psychic brain to think someone to death. Shouldn’t we all get lobotomies?

      Do you see how how absurd your argument is?

  31. Dadgum says:

    BRW says:
    December 17, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    The answer to free speech is more speech less we stick our head back in the sand.

  32. Karma says:

    Shouldn’t we have abortion control also? You know how many kids just like the ones killed will never have a chance to live. A murder by a gun is bad and crushing a child’s head in the womb is OK. Funny how the same people value life.

  33. JustMytThoughts says:

    Every American has the right to bare arms for the purpose of self-defense, a tyrannical government, and tyranny. Our forefathers were extremely wise people. Over the last ten years our constitution has been stripped of many of our rights. I’m sorry so many people die on a yearly basis from gun violence. I wept with the nation over all those children dying. In Flagler many of our schools have armed police. Instead of taking away our right to bare arms, maybe we should consider arming up. It’s a huge deterrent. I believe there are more good people than bad. This is the world we live in. I blame all the gun control laws for what’s happening. People have a right to protect themselves at work, school, and anywhere else. Criminals, and crazy people as a rule generally don’t follow gun control laws. If those teachers, administrators, and staff would have been armed, it would have been a different outcome.
    Just my opinion.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

    As far as the comments regarding God. He’s not a dictator, and doesn’t interfere with free will. You would know that if you’d bothered to study the bible. Instead you hurl accusations against something you know nothing about. As if God were to blame for this. Really?

  34. patty says:

    1. “People who want to kill will kill” but having so many assault weapons so easily available makes it easy to kill many at one go.
    2. Armed with a baseball bat or knife Adam Lanza could have been more easily subdued and would not have been able to cause so much carnage and massacre so many innocent babies. Logic therefore says that automatic weapons are a worse tool for killing.
    3. The knife wielding guy in China was not able to cause as much damage and NOBODY died
    4. In Britain, in the wake of the Hungerford massacre, Britain introduced new legislation — Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 — making registration mandatory for owning shotguns and banning semi-automatic and pump-action weapons. Gun carnage immediately went down.
    5. In one of his first acts as leader, Prime Minister John Howard announced major reforms to Australia’s gun control laws just 12 days after 35 people died at the hands of a lone gunman wielding a military-style semi-automatic rifle at a popular tourist spot in Tasmania on April 28, 1996. Again, almost 100% decline in gun deaths.
    6. Following 9/11, for the sake of safety we have meekly given up our right to privacy and allow ourselves to be stripped near naked at airports without a murmur but for the safety of our children and our population we are not willing to give up on dangerous automatic weapons quoting (incorrectly) second amendment rights. If we stick to the spirit of that amendment we should only be allowed to own/carry muskets!
    7. For the record, I have been handling guns since I was 6 years old but only under the supervision of my parents at that time. So now I consider myself a gun lover and owner but not an unreasonable one and do not see any need for protection or sport to own an assault weapon.
    8. What I consider unreasonable is people insisting that they have a right to own assault weapons and multiple-round clips for protection. Against what? The bogey man? Why is there a need for civilians to own assault rifles? Do we really think we need to or can defend ourselves against the Government, the U.S. armed forces or by Government do we mean our local police force? If we mean the latter, than perhaps we are criminals who feel the need to defend against law enforcement.
    9. Some pseudo gun lovers have also suggested that the teachers at New Town should have been armed to defend and retaliate. Why stop at teachers? The little angels should each have been carrying a firearm for their own protection.

    Even if logic be damned, c’mon people, where are your hearts? If not now, then when? We need sensible gun policies.

  35. Whodat says:

    @ Patty
    Well said and if I may add Patty, in Israel citizens can own guns but are limited to only 50 bulits in a “lifetime”. This is somewhat similar to legisation Senator Feinstein of California is proposing. Gun sales this week alone are over $10 million and Bushmaster’s selling for over $1,000 per if you can get one. Are we expecting an invasion.

  36. Outsider says:

    Patty, you neglected to follow up on the results of the British and Australian gun bans. Find your own source, but you will crime went up, including rapes.

  37. Edward says:

    A handful of men with box cutters killed 3000 Americans. Should we ban box cutters or airplanes?? A truckfull of explosives and fertilizer killed hundreds. Should we ban fertilizer? Over 30,000 people died in car crashes in 2010. Should we ban cars? What happened in CT was beyond despicable. It was the cowardly act of a boy whose own family says had mental issues. Yet it could have easily been stopped just as quick as it started had someone else possessed a firearm and blown that kid’s brains all over a wall and saved those children.

    I’m really glad all of you, like Pierre here, are so willing to give up the only thing which allows you to protect yourself against an armed aggressor. If, and God forbid it actually happens, you who would make guns illegal find themselves staring down the barrel of a bad guy’s pistol (because there’s no way criminals would be so stupid as to surrender their own arms), you’ll go out wishing you had one too.

    Don’t know if Pierre brought it up or not, but Switzerland REQUIRES every household to possess a gun and be trained in its use. Yet they aren’t slaughtering themselves. Each year, millions of hunters here in America take to the woods with some powerful weapons, but there’s no mass murder (of hunters). Gun responsibility needs to be taught. Guns are not evil, they are inanimate objects. Anything can be used to kill someone if the person knows how to use it. A t-shirt, a sock, a knife, a gun, all can be used to kill.

    Last point: These guns were granted to us by our Forefathers not just as a means of protection against criminals, and not just as a means of hunting and gaining food. These weapons are meant to be the People’s protection against our own government. A final line in the sand when all else (legislation, judiciary) have failed. The Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed. This is necessary to the security of a free State.

  38. Tango says:

    You mention the English crime rate, yet there is no mention of the fact that British Crime rate was already a fraction of the US rate even before their first gun bans were enacted, nor any mention of the horrific inaccuracies that fill their so-called “record” books which have been examined by news agencies on both sides of the Atlantic.

    You state “Ten times as many Americans die of firearms, each year, as did on 9/11”. While including suicides and criminals killed by police and armed citizens is factually correct, it is disingenuous. And while suicide may be made easier by having a gun, the suicide numbers from Japan (that dwarf ours on a per/100k measure) as well as the creative and unusual methods they have invented to shrug off this mortal coil show that limiting access to guns will not reduce the numbers, just make those with intent work harder.

    You mention “the movie theater massacre in Aurora, the Sikh temple in Wisconsin, the factory in Minneapolis, the mall in Oregon”, yet fail to mention that all of them were posted as “gun free zones”.

    You also specifically omit that the shooting in the Clackamas Town Center mall – according to Portland’s KGW news – was stopped by a concealed carry holder before it went any further. You also omit the score of shootings that were stopped by law abiding citizens with guns that could be found with less than a minute of internet search.

    Of course, that doesn’t promote your agenda, so why include it? That whole “journalistic neutrality” concept is so outdated…

    I’m sorry that Florida and other states “conceal the identity of conceal-carry permit holders” so “noble minded journalists” like yourself cannot publish the names and addresses of permit holders – in the name of public interest. It must be incredibly frustrating for you to not be able to “out” those that don’t support your agenda while hiding behind PO boxes and unlisted phone numbers in your personal lives.

    I also find it ironic that you mention Rwanda when they are a wonderful example of the controls you would see enacted here. Decree-Law No. 12, 1979 required gun owners to register themselves as well as their guns and ammunition. It went further as time went by to insist that owners must justify need, outlawing concealable guns and allowing the government to confiscating them.

    Look where they are now – in mass graves defenseless against machete wielding mobs. 500,000 – maybe 1,000,000 – dead. Thank goodness they didn’t have guns.

    It seems to many of your ilk there is more nobility in victimhood than in the ability to defend one’s self, yet you label our side “vile” and “absurd”.

    Speaking of that victimhood, another thing that is glaringly omitted from your diatribe is whom exactly is responsible for the failure to protect all those victims.

    Here’s a clue – it’s not the government.

    Since South v Maryland in 1856, and in a score of cases since, the courts have held that the government bears no affirmative duty to protect the individual except in certain particular instances – attending school is not among them. People have tried to sue the government and been rebuffed, even when the government knew there was a credible threat before the attack took place.

    Where did the court lay that burden? Upon our own shoulders.

    So how do we address this? Do we give up our means of self-defense in a noble experiment to elevate mankind above our primitive urges? The punch line of the social worker and the light bulb comes to mind, specifically the “want to change” part. Just as we cannot hasten our progress towards being more noble-minded or altruistic, we cannot legislate our advancement through disarmament or any other means. All we would be doing at that point is allowing those that exhibit the lowest denominator of behavior an unfettered avenue to continue their practice.

    Which in a roundabout fashion brings up your comment “Firearms have one function, and one function only: to kill”.

    I would counter that it depends on the firearm in question but you are generally correct.

    Many of mankind’s greatest technological advances have been in the means of killing one another – clubs, knives, swords, axes, spears, arrows, gunpowder, cannon, muskets, rifles, handguns.

    We’ve been improving our lethality since we first started using tools, and if another means that is more efficient and user-friendly as firearms is invented, I’ll take advantage of that as well.

    But for today? I choose a firearm.


    As the “old west” saw goes, “G-d didn’t make man equal, Colonel Colt did”. There’s no guarantee my potential assailant is someone I could overpower, nor is there a guarantee they’re in the right mental state to discuss things. And one does not meet a lethal force incident without an adequate response. Tasers don’t always work, and pepper spray not only takes several second – if it works at all – but it contaminates the entire area, and people train to fight through it.

    Once a human has shown behavior that indicates enough of a threat of death or great bodily harm to another, the time for discussion and identification is over, as they have shown a willingness to abandon the Rousseauian social contract that allows us to interact politely and we have now jumped into Hobbes’ natural existence.

    So while I’m not eager about it, if it comes time to use a firearm, then the time for any sort of rational discussion or appeal to logic (like most anti-gunners favor) is out the window.

    In that moment I want to be able to eliminate any threat or threats to me or my family’s safety as quickly as possible.

    No discussion.

    No consideration of “feelings”.

    No contemplation of “societal pre-conditioning”, “institutional denial of opportunity” or any other psycho-social bullsh*t excuses for criminality.

    In the words of Captain Caveman “It’s clobberin’ time”.

    At that point all I want is the most amount of STOPITRIGHTTHEF*CKNOW to the bad guy for the buck, as well as any buddies he brought with him. And just so the record is correct, I don’t care what color a criminal is. I find it ironic that the first dart thrown by urban intellectuals who dismiss guns is “racism” – they obviously have never worked the same districts I have where the majority of shooters and victims share demographics.

    I don’t want to engage in a bare knuckles fistfight with a crackhead who can’t feel pain just because you think I can’t be trusted with a gun.

    I don’t want my wife to try to get up close and personal with a criminal who is bigger or heavier than her because it makes you or anyone else who chooses not to own a gun “feel better”, much less leave our children defenseless or motherless after she fails, and I don’t care if you wish to impugn my intelligence, genetic composition or sexual organ size.

    I don’t want to run out of ammo when I’m trying to stop multiple attackers because someone in Washington who doesn’t even like guns chose an arbitrary number of rounds as “all I needed”.

    G-d forbid the situation presents itself for any of us. Having been there I hope I never have cause to be again. That said, if you want to get into a scrap with a home intruder feel free.

    I want to be able to eliminate the threat to me or my family’s safety in the fastest, easiest way possible, and right now? That way is a firearm.

Leave a Reply

FlaglerLive's forum, as noted in our comment policy, is for debate and conversation that adds light and perspective to articles. Please be courteous, don't attack fellow-commenters or make personal attacks against individuals in stories, and try to stick to the subject. All comments are moderated.

Read FlaglerLive's Comment Policy | Subscribe to the Comment Feed rss flaglerlive comment feed rss

More stories on FlaglerLive

FlaglerLive Email Alerts

Enter your email address to get alerts.


suppert flaglerlive flagler live palm coast flagler county news pierre tristam florida
news service of florida

Recent Comments

FlaglerLive is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization | P.O. Box 254263, Palm Coast, FL 32135 | Contact the Editor by email | (386) 586-0257 | Sitemap | Log in