Larry Jones, Flagler County Sheriff Candidate: The Live Interview

Four years ago, the sheriff’s race drew eight candidates–six Republicans and two Democrats. Jones, who retired in 2014 as a sergeant after a three-decade career at the Flagler County Sheriff’s Office, defeated Jim Manfre in the primary. Staly defeated Jones in the general election, taking 54 percent of the vote in a three-way race. Jones got 39 percent of the vote, with an independent getting 7 percent. So this is a rematch between Jones and Staly.

It has been a lopsided race: Jones’s $4,000 in campaign contributions makes him the second-lowest funded candidate in any of the countywide races with the exception of one candidate for school board, who raised less than $2,000 (and lost). Staly has raised $111,000 so far, or $60,000 more than the next-best funded candidate in countywide races (County Commissioner Dave Sullivan, who raised nearly $50,000 in his winning bid for re-election, half of it his own money.)

The sheriff was paid $133,989 in 2020, a salary set by state law but paid out of local dollars.

FlaglerLive submitted 15 identical questions to the two candidates, who replied in writing, with the understanding that some follow-up questions may be asked, and that all exchanges would be on the record. Follow-up questions, when necessary, appear in italics. The Live Interview’s aim is to elicit as much candor and transparency as possible. We have asked candidates to refrain from making campaign speeches or make lists of accomplishments. We have also asked candidates to reasonably document any claim or accusation. Undocumented claims are edited out. Answers are also edited for length, redundancy, relevance and, where possible, accuracy. If a candidate does not answer a question or appears to be evading a question, that’s noted.

But it’s ultimately up to the reader to judge the quality and sincerity of a candidate’s answers.

In this case, Jones did not turn in the answers to the first round of questions until well after Staly’s interview had published, then, as he had in 2016, declined to answer the follow-up questions, as noted below. See his 2016 interview here.

The Questions in Summary: Quick Links

• Basics
• Strongest arguments
• Character
• Grading, achievements and flaws
• Priorities
• Crime
• Public perception of cops
• Use of force
• Officer-involved shootings
• Black lives
• Police funding
• Deputy staffing
• Policing Palm Coast
• Succession
• Lessons learned
• Background check

CANDIDATE: The Basics:

Place and Date of Birth: Did not disclose.
Current job: Did not disclose.
Net worth: Did not disclose.
Party Affiliation: Democratic.
Website:




1.To the sheriff: what is your strongest argument for a second term? To the challenger: what is your strongest argument against incumbency?

The Sheriff’s department’s attitude and working behavior has lacked true understanding of the people in our communities. The demeaning self-important attitude in my opinion is too macho. More sympathy and empathy in the all the interactions with the population at large is necessary. Progressive changes that are adaptive to our social situation need to be made.

Does the sheriff’s popularity, unusually high when compared top predecessors going back to McCarthy a quarter century ago, not strongly suggest that he does understand his community, and may possibly have a better read on it than most local politicians? Where is the misunderstanding? Conceding that the sheriff has a knack for self-publicity–not an unusual trait among elected law enforcement chiefs–can you cite one or two examples where he’s lacked empathy or understanding? How do the numerous initiatives, from the ongoing efforts against domestic violence to programs for youths to the jail’s STRIVE initiatives indicate a lack of empathy?

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

2. Describe your character and temperament, and what people you’ve worked with—or citizens you’ve interacted with—would say are your most serious personal flaws, in so far as how they affect your job. What do you do to address those flaws?

My character and temperament revolve around being sincere and honest. I have genuine concern for others and I am a family man.  I strive to improve myself at all times in order to do something for the common good.  I always treat people equally and with respect.  In terms of flaws I do get frustrated and angry.  Most people have these emotions. I am especially concerned with the systemic discrimination in matters of race being that I am a black man.  To overcome this I focus on doing the right thing at all times.

Anger in a law enforcement officer at any level would be concerning. Anger in a sheriff would be alarming. Can you explain what you mean when you refer to your frustration and anger in the context of your work as a lawman?

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

3. First, give the current sheriff a grade (A, B, C, etc.) with some explanation. Second, name the three strongest achievements of the last four years (even if you are the challenger), and name the three most serious flaws, failures or missed opportunities in the agency in the last four years.

I do not wish to evaluate the current sheriff in any way. I will leave these opinions to the voters.  I stand by my platform.

Your challenge of the incumbent is predicated on a judgment that he is not doing the job, and that you can do better. How are voters to know your judgment if you’re not willing to let us know how you rate him? The question also went to your evaluation of strengths and weaknesses at the agency. As a candidate for that office, how could you not have evaluated such things for yourself, and why would you not share them with voters now?

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

4. What priorities can we look forward to that will visibly and effectively make a difference in public safety in our communities and public trust in our deputies?

My priority is to energize the community and to work on closing the gap on community relations with the Sheriff’s Department. I want to establish real community policing and focus on the protect and serve mantra for police everywhere.

5. In the ongoing French election every candidate claims crime is a problem, every candidate is making crime an issue, yet crime is unquestionably down. We get some of the same vibes in our pages: though crime is at a historic low, responses from readers tend to reflect a fear of rising crime and insecurity. Surely media reports are partly to blame, though no differently than sheriff’s releases highlighting this or that arrest. So looking beyond these reports, to what do you attribute that seeming insecurity or sense of anxiety?

There is a fear of rising crime and insecurity due to all of the recent events happening throughout America as well as in Flagler County. The media reports and the Sheriff’s highlighting of local issues are partly to blame for much of the insecurity and feelings of anxiety. The overall changes in life for everyone make life more uncertain and stressful.  Employment, economic and world tension have also gone beyond what was the norm in terms of worrying about our daily lives.  Sensationalism in all forms is detrimental to the mood of the people.

Do you agree that crime is not a serious issue in the county, and certainly much less of a serious one relative to previous years? Or do you question the numbers behind the dramatic declines in crime?

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

6. Law enforcement officers’ treatment of citizens clearly impacts public opinion of law enforcement, whether by word of mouth, cell phone clips, body cam clips, and how those who’ve had interactions with police speak of those interactions with friends and family. How does that opinion play into your management of your ranks?

Obviously how officers treat and interact with the citizens is crucial. Therefore, it is essential to always do the right thing and keep in mind that we are in a gold fish bowl.  We must recognize our attitude and behavior is totally visible to the public.  We have to be held accountable for our interaction with the public.  We must always act with social conscience and common sense.  Everyone deserves to be treated equally, fairly and with respect.

7. In potentially controversial situations such as use of force incidents, it is common to hear the use of force described by police as legal and within policy. But accepting that much, that’s different than saying whether the use of force is necessary or acceptable, even if it is legally defensible. Assuming you acknowledge a distinction between the two standards, how to you ensure that the use of force is not only legal, but also necessary and acceptable even when legal beyond question?

In controversial situations especially with the use of force there should only be the distinction of dealing with people in a constructive and justifiable manner. Civil rights and human rights dictate the proper way to deal with all situations.  Common decency would have to be the order of the day.  An officer should not have to think about the difference between what is within policy or legally defensible as opposed to whether or not action taken is necessary or acceptable…they should be seen in the same light.  Civil and human rights is what matters.  The discussion of this should always be in consideration within the Sheriff’s department.  We are public servants who endeavor to “protect and serve.”

Based on your long career, can you give us an example of how you used force appropriately, and an example of how you m ay have used force inappropriately (and presumably learned from it)? 

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

8. Four years ago we asked this question, and gladly ask it again with a minor variation: for eight years now, not a single individual has been killed by a Flagler County deputy in Flagler County. (One individual shot himself in a stand-off with deputies in November 2013, ex-Flagler deputy Daniel Ruddell was shot at last November as he attempted to flee from deputies, including Flagler deputies, in St. Johns County, and one suspect was shot and wounded in a Mondex standoff earlier this year). There has continued to be more documented instances of armed individuals who were peacefully apprehended after stand-offs or confrontations, all in contrast with surrounding counties, not to mention the rest of the country. To what do you attribute Flagler’s continuing trend, and what will you do to ensure that this, as opposed to a more violent, norm, continues?

Possible deadly force can only be implemented when an officer’s life is in danger! To ensure the continuing trend of no violence or to perform officer involved shootings I will focus on education, training and understanding.   We must all be very aware of the changing times and make sure there is peace and tranquility.  This is the mission and we must provide the best service and reduce further any officer involved shootings.

9. How do Black Lives Matter to you. How do you (or will you) ensure that they do among the ranks and in the county?

I support the Black Lives Matter movement. I will ensure that they matter with persistent effort for lasting education and training.  We need to be especially cognizant of the current national and local events that affect our patrolling of Palm Coast. I will also work towards absolute respect for everyone’s rights under the law.  Times are changing and the Sheriff’s department needs to make progressive changes with the climate of society.

How is the Sheriff’s Office not making progressive changes?

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

10. There is no question of “defunding police” in Flagler—and polemical exaggerations aside, there is little question about “defunding” anywhere. There are discussions about redirecting resources from one type of policing to another, or de-emphasizing certain approaches as opposed to others. What concrete possibilities do you see along those lines locally, if any?

Defunding the police is not an option. There definitely is a need for redirecting resources from one type of policing to another.  Approaches to policing need to be changed.  Civility and treatment of our relations with all people need to improve.  Authoritarianism can be very effective, yet tempered.  Attitude adjustments are necessary within the ranks of the department.  We need to be focused on implementing positive progressive reforms throughout the Sheriff’s department.

Can you give us an example of what you would shift from current spending priorities at the department, and to what? You state: “Authoritarianism can be very effective, yet tempered.” How can a voter not read such a line and not be concerned? In what context is authoritarianism, by any agency, civilian or law enforcement, considered “effective” an an open society like ours where, by your own standards, civil and human rights are paramount? 

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

11. In a related matter, Flagler has seen its crime rate steadily fall, and very sharply so over the past few years, yet Sheriff Staly is looking to vastly increase the ranks of the sheriff’s office, based on a study that would add 70 deputies by 2025, a year after the end of the winner’s next term. Recognizing that some growth in ranks is justifiable as demand grows, how is that not contradictory, excessive and unaffordable, especially in light of debates about recalibrating the distribution of police forces?

With the current times of economic instability and civil unrest along with the future being unknown it would be inappropriate for growth in the ranks. It is contradictory to think of this now or in the near future. Yet, it is appropriate to plan for future expansion and for an increase of the budget.  The ranks need to be held stable for now.  Future growth will bring the necessity of recalibrating the distribution of our police forces and the expenditures for dealing with differing situations.

12. Evaluate policing in Palm Coast—the budgetary relationship with the city, community relations with residents—and tell us where you see needed improvements in either.

This question will be answered by the voters.

Your dismissive answer is surprising: Palm Coast government intends to take a top to bottom look at its current budget with the sheriff soon after the election, something that will only peripherally involve voters, but that will directly involve the sheriff. Two questions below, you tell us how you’ve remained informed on “everything that is going on within our community.” Have you not studied the issue? Can you not give us your insights about this long-standing budget, and whether it needs re-evaluation?

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

13. Succession is an important component of any organization, and organizations without succession plans show their weaknesses at the worst times: Flagler County government was an example. There is no clearly stated second in command at the sheriff’s office—or is there? Residents have the right to know: Please tell us who would be your interim in case, heaven forbid, you should be unable to perform your duties for a time, in the next four years.

Yes, succession is important. There is a place for a second in command within the organization of the department, currently there is no one in that position.  Yes, there should be a designated person in that position.  I would pick an acting second and as soon as possible make that a permanent position after reviewing and interviewing the potential pool of qualified people from within the department.

14. To Sheriff Staly: what have you learned in the past four years as sheriff that now makes you do your job differently than you were doing it in the first months of your administration? To Larry Jones: how have your years away from the force changed your perspective on leadership, and what have you done to prepare in those years since you left the agency? 

In my years away from the force I have stayed informed on everything that is going on within our community and nationwide as well. My perspective on leadership has continually evolved.  Specifically, I have grown in my understanding of excellent leadership.  I have prepared by focusing on the needs of the people and working to improve the lives of everyone.

But you’re not telling us how you’ve grown, how you’ve prepared: have you been involved in any form of leadership initiatives, classes, programs? Have you participated in civic organizations or causes, volunteer or community boards?

Larry Jones declined to answer the follow-up question.

15. If you have been the subject of one or more Internal Affairs investigation or its equivalent, or a use of force complaint, please tell us in what agency, when, what the circumstances or issues were, and what the disposition was in those cases.

Anyone can check and examine my background if they wish to do so. I will not comment on anything specifically but rather will confirm that there is nothing to hide from my past.  I walk the talk and talk the walk.  I am an honest man.

Note: we asked a similar question in Jones’s 2016 Live Interview. Jones was more forthcoming at the time. Here’s what he wrote:

11-20-98-Internal Investigation-A female dispatcher filed a complaint that I had called her a slut while talking with another deputy. The case was closed when it was found that the accusation was unsubstantiated. You did not ask for these, but I have included letters of reprimand: 22 years ago, I made three prank telephone calls to three officers-two females and one male. All three contained the same joke which was a commonly used reference to pay day. I admitted to making those phone calls and apologized. I received a written reprimand in September 1994. No further action was taken. There is an incident in which I was reported to have attempted to “pop” the neck of a dispatcher with a stiff neck. The incident was documented to include an apology to the dispatcher. No reprimand was issued and no further action taken. 10-19-1997-Letter of Reprimand-Failure to arrest a person with a .18 or over BAC. This involved a 17-year-old male who was stopped for a faulty headlight. The teen had never been in trouble, was a good student in school and was headed for college. He was cooperative and rather than have him be followed by an arrest record for the rest of his life, his father was called and came to the scene to pick him up. This is an example of officer discretion. At no time in my career with the FCSO, under the supervision of an all-white administration, was I ever suspended for any type of disciplinary action.