No Bull, No Fluff, No Smudges
Your news source for
Flagler, Florida and Beyond

As 1st Brick In Wall Goes Up, An Accounting of the Cost of a Single Installment ($2.8 Billion) to U.S. Taxpayers

| March 19, 2017

It won't look that pretty. The border fence on the Mexican side in Nogales, bordering Arizona. (Jonathan McIntosh)

It won’t look that pretty. The border fence on the Mexican side in Nogales, bordering Arizona. (Jonathan McIntosh)

The fiscal 2018 price for President Trump’s border wall is in: $2.6 billion. That’s a cost to U.S. taxpayers, not a cost many people any longer think will be picked up by the Mexican government.

As first installments go, it’s a pretty big number. Indeed, its size can be appreciated in one powerful way by setting it against some of the many budget cuts Trump proposed this week.

One year of spending on a border wall is the equal of, well, the federal funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting plus the $231 million given to the country’s libraries and museums plus the $366 million that goes to legal help for the poor.

Actually, the tab is nearly three times the cost of those combined budgets.

Care about the arts? Wondering where the next “Hamilton” might come from?

The federal government could increase the annual combined spending on the National Endowment for the Arts and the National Endowment for the Humanities by 900 percent or so and still not get to the $2.6 billion.

It’s worth noting the $2.6 billion will not actually go toward the big, permanent wall the president has committed to. That’s forecast to be around 10 times the $2.6 billion. The $2.6 billion will go to build a bunch of smaller walls and patch holes in the assortment of fences that now exist.

All these numbers confusing you? Wish you were better at math?

The $2.6 billion is more than twice the annual costs of 21st Century Community Learning Centers created across the country to fund programs run before and after school and throughout the summer. You could actually throw in the $190 million spent on teaching students with disabilities and limited English proficiency and still not match the wall costs.

The wall, of course, is supposed to protect Americans from the cheap labor making its way illegally into the country. It might strike some as odd that, while investing in the wall, the administration has opted to disinvest in a variety of economic programs. The Economic Development Administration’s $221 million budget is wiped out in Trump’s plan. Ditto the $434 million dedicated annually to job training for older low-income people. And the $119 million aimed every year at 420 economically depressed counties in Appalachia.

Had enough of this? Weary of politics and partisanship? Sick of talking about the wall? Want to get away from it all?

There are plenty of options, of course. What there won’t be anymore, under the Trump budget, are the $20 million spent on National Heritage Areas or the $13.2 million spent on the National Wildlife Refuge Fund.

–Joe Sexton, ProPublica

The Trump administration solicits bids for first $600 million of work on a wall whose total cost no one knows.

President Donald Trump’s administration announced a $600 million bidding contest late Friday night to kick off construction of The Wall, a towering physical barrier between the United States and Mexico.

The process will start with little walls — an unknown number of barriers of concrete and other materials that will serve as models for the bigger wall, which Trump made central to his political campaign.

Construction will proceed with unusual haste. Companies have just two weeks to submit proposals. Finalists will make a two-and-half hour long oral presentation to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency, which is overseeing the contest. Winners will be announced by late May.

Steven Schooner, a professor of government contracting at George Washington University, tweeted that the process was “extremely/uniquely complicated (and confusing).”

But CBP officials said the approach was designed to get the best value for the government.

border fence

Feel-good architecture along the U.S.-Mexico border. (Wonderlane)

“Through the construction of prototypes, CBP will partner with industry to identify the best means and methods to construct border wall before making a more substantial investment in construction,” the agency said in a statement.

The bidding documents released Friday provide important clues as to what the Trump administration hopes to erect on the 1,200 miles of border with no physical barriers. Some 650 miles are already fenced.

The little walls are supposed to be tall. They should be “physically imposing in height” — 30 feet is preferred, though 18 feet is acceptable. However, the prototypes will be as little as 30 feet long, and cost as little as $100,000.

The little walls are supposed to be strong. They must be able to withstand attacks from “sledgehammer, car jack, pick axe, chisel, battery operated impact tools, battery operated cutting tools, Oxy/acetylene torch” for at least one hour, preferably four. They should also be able to span 45 degree slopes, and block tunneling. Contractors will build prototypes of concrete — Trump’s preferred material — but also other materials that will allow visibility between the two sides. Once the government has determined a model, the prototypes may be demolished.

Finally, the little walls are supposed to be pretty — at least on the U.S. side of the border. The agency wants the walls to be “aesthetically pleasing” so that the color and texture blends into the environment on the “north side of the wall.” There is no similar language for the Mexican side of the wall.

In addition to the tough building conditions, the agency clearly understands another difficulty will be political: Interested builders are urged to discuss their experience in “executing high profile, high visibility and politically contentious” construction projects.

Immigration activists are expected to protest construction of the wall, deploying tactics learned during the long, bitter protests over construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline near the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation in North Dakota. The bid calls for companies to hire their own private security contractors to protect their projects.

The final cost of the wall — and even whether it will be built — is a matter of debate. Trump has said he anticipates the final bill to be from $10 billion to $12 billion. The Department of Homeland Security has suggested a cost of around $21 billion. Trump’s proposed budget has called for $2.6 billion to begin construction.

In Congress, some Republicans and many Democrats have opposed spending billions for an untested and possibly ineffectual border barrier. Trump has said he will force Mexico to pay for the wall. The Mexican government has rejected the possibility.

What is clear is that the Trump administration’s methods will favor large, experienced government contractors with demonstrated experience in big construction projects. Companies such as KBR, Tutor Perini Corp., Parson Corp. and Fluor Corp. have all indicated an interest in building the edifice.

At the same time, the agency has asked bidders to explain how they will meet the agency’s goals to deliver contracts to small, minority and veteran owned companies. Customs and Border Protection aims to pay 38 percent of its contract to small business, 5 percent to woman-owned firms and 3 percent to companies owned by disabled veterans.

In practice, the likely outcome is a few large government contractors overseeing a small army of subcontractors to build the wall.

More than 700 companies signed up for notifications about the building the wall, including more than 140 minority-owned firms — about 20 percent of the total. It is unclear how many of the firms possess the necessary experience and ability to participate in the bid.

–T. Christian Miller, ProPublica

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

29 Responses for “As 1st Brick In Wall Goes Up, An Accounting of the Cost of a Single Installment ($2.8 Billion) to U.S. Taxpayers”

  1. Fred says:

    New Center for Immigration Studies report suggests that President Donald Trump’s wall along the U.S.-Mexico border could save Americans nearly $164 billion over the next 10 years if it stops half of all expected undocumented immigrants.

  2. PeachesMcGee says:

    We should build a wall on our northern border as well. Those canucks are an evil lot.

  3. Sherry says:

    Does anyone in their “sane” minds really believe that Mexico is going to pay for trump’s wall? Really?

    No it’s going to be paid for by US taxpayers! Cutting back on feeding our elderly through the wonderful “Meals On Wheels” program to “help” pay for it. . . . Horrific and Pathetic!

  4. Old Guy says:

    What a colossal waste of money! Trumps Folly will have little impact on illegal immigration since most illegals entered the country legally and then overstayed their visas. Besides, talk about cheap labor, just who do we think is going to be doing most of the manual labor involved in building this wall? Take a portion of this money and make repairs to the existing barrier, hire more border patrol and immigration officers, and fund the courts and other agencies needed to enforce existing laws. Restore the balance to much needed infrastructure projects and other worthy programs. Or better yet use it to pay down the national debt. That’s a much bigger threat to our safety and security.

  5. starryidgirl says:

    Costs almost as much as the rollout for Obamacare did!!!

  6. John Boy says:

    Maybe they could get some corporate sponsors to build portions of The Wall in exchange for the advertising rights. You could have the NASCAR Wall of Shame with such lovely corporations like GM, Ford, Toyota and STP or Quaker State paying for The Wall. Maybe some Hollywood studio heads could also get in on the act. Imagine the Disney Wall or the MGM Grand Wall….How about the Fox News Wall!!?

  7. r&r says:

    He’s just doing what he promised to do before he was elected. That’s more than I say about other politics after they’re elected. the first one that comes to mind is Obama.

  8. Traveling Rep says:

    If this wall is what keeps our border protected, stems the tide of illegal immigration, and keeps other would be terrorists out – it is worth every penny. The notion of Mexico paying for it is not all that far fetched either, and could be handled though import taxes – thus putting American industries back on an equal footing with the cheap labor there. For that matter, perhaps China and other Asian nations (with whom we have massive trade deficits) will be helping to pay for it too. We can call it there “duties” :)

    For a matter of comparison, The website cost in excess of 2.2 Billion (conservatively) – and was nothing but a website (that was a massive failure)! A 2.6 Billion 10% down payment for the wall sounds reasonable.

    Keep trying lefties, we all know you just want like hades to add to your voter base by importing illegals who pay no taxes and suck the system dry. When will you people learn to take care of your fellow Americans first?

    Don’t get me confused, anyone who wishes to come here LEGALLY has all of my blessings. I would even assist them in the process, should they want my help.

  9. woodchuck says:

    Great long term savings.

  10. Hardy says:

    Here is a little tidbit In 2010 Illegal immigrants cost the state of Florida 5.2 billion dollars. This amounted to $981 per citizen household. You do the math 2.6 billion vrs just for the state of Florida 5.2 billion

  11. Markingthedays says:

    How does an “illegal” immigrant cost me money?

  12. Knightwatch says:

    Um, Fred… the “Center for Immigration Studies” is a far right anti-immigration activity. No one of any import gives this organization any credibility on actual immigration issues. Breitbart is the only source that takes this psudo-think tank seriously, and we all know that Breitbart is the country’s foremost purveyor of white supremacy dogma and anti-democratic conspiracy theories. Just ask Trump’s personal neo-Nazi, Steve Bannon.

  13. Richard Smith says:

    @ Markingthedays – there is plenty of verifiable information on the Internet regarding the costs associated with illegal immigrants. All you have to do is spend some of your “free” time and search for it. Here, let me give you one such web site.

  14. Sherry says:

    The NET costs and “benefits” of illegal immigration is much more complex than most people realize. For example, the taxes that illegal immigrants pay (sales and Social Security) and the benefits of their willingness to work for less than minimum wages. . . which keeps consumer costs very low. . . must be taken into consideration.:
    National Academy of Sciences Study of Immigration says the academy’s report, which is multifaceted enough to allow for competing interpretations. The report suggests that immigration is not a clear-cut issue in which one side is right and the other wrong, but that there are both costs and benefits.
    The crux of the problem is that the pluses and minuses are not distributed equally. The academy found, for example, that the willingness of less-skilled immigrants to work at low pay reduced consumption costs — the costs to consumers of goods and services like health care, child care, food preparation, house cleaning, repair and construction — for millions of Americans. This resulted in “positive net benefits to the U.S. economy during the last two decades of the 20th century.” These low-wage workers simultaneously generated “a redistribution of wealth from low- to high-skilled native-born workers.”
    The frequent harshness of these trade-offs in real life is masked by the academic language of the report, which points out that native-born workers who are substitutes for immigrants “will experience negative wage effects” — in other words, lower wages.
    In summary, the immigration surplus stems from the increase in the return to capital that results from the increased supply of labor and the subsequent fall in wages. Natives who own more capital (AKA business owners of all sizes) will receive more income from the immigration surplus than natives who own less capital, who can consequently be adversely affected.
    While acknowledging these conflicts, the academy comes down decisively on the pro-immigration side of the debate:
    Immigration is integral to the nation’s economic growth. The inflow of labor supply has helped the United States avoid the problems facing other economies that have stagnated as a result of unfavorable demographics, particularly the effects of an aging work force and reduced consumption by older residents. In addition, the infusion of human capital by high-skilled immigrants has boosted the nation’s capacity for innovation, entrepreneurship, and technological change.

  15. Pogo says:

    @Richard Smith

    Federation for American Immigration Reform

    How Do We Know FAIR is a Hate Group? Let Us Count the Ways

    People really need to understand what the hell 501 organizations are:*

    They need to understand shell corporations too:

    They need to grasp the enormity of the craziness and stupidity of Trump’s wall and it’s actual cost; including but not limited to this: The acquisition of the land it will occupy, abuse of taking of private property (oh duh – yeah, there will be lots of that) creating barriers to the natural activities of wildlife, destruction of nature in general, destruction of historically significant places. The squandering of finite funds that are desperately needed for far better uses. Not to mention destroying our reputation and the traditions that created it.

    Now I know it’s natural for Trump voters to forget who built the Iron Curtain; the Berlin wall, or the success (not) of the Maginot Line, etc, etc. Look them up. Learn something.

    Please – Trump voters – use your head for something besides a hat rack. THINK – goddamn it!!!

  16. Richard Smith says:

    @ Pogo – So what makes SPLC a squeaky clean non-hate group? Nothing….. because they are spouting their own narrative, taking words out of context, making up “facts” and promoting their own agendas. So what’s the difference between those two groups now?. No matter what one person says there will be others spouting the opposite. The sky is falling, the sky is falling… it is just blue.

  17. Pogo says:

    @Richard Smith

    “…By defending racism, encouraging xenophobia and nativism, and giving its all to efforts to keep America white, FAIR has more than earned its place in the pantheon of hate groups. That is where it belongs, and that is where it will stay.”

    Drudge, FOX, WND, Newsmax, Infowars, etc, etc. Hey – cheer up! Your stockpile of MREs and bomb shelter food will enrich a good compost pile. So there’s that to look forward to while you wait for the end times and count your stockpile of surplus NATO 5.56…

    43 “For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. 45 The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
    – Luke 6:43-45

    Sane people are encouraged to contact all elected officials and object to Trump’s wall and its ruinous cost, disastrous wastefulness, and destructiveness.. While you’re at it, object to the reckless hate that inspired it.

  18. Sherry says:

    Pogo. . . thank you for staying vigilant and trying to educate and raise the consciousness of our local fascists and racists. While there are those who care nothing for the actual FACTS and who would “blindly” support trump even if he did “murder someone on 5th avenue”. . . there are still sane people who hopefully appreciate your efforts to bring factual information to the fore. Keep up the good work!

  19. Pogo says:


    Thank you. IMO, you are always on point, thoughtfu,l and well informed.

    All credit to Pierre Tristam. Period.

    When I was growing up, the five Ws (*) were something all pupils were acquainted with. We were taught ratio and proportion. Even critical thinking. Ah well – long ago.

    I’ve been reading Pierre since he was writing for the N-J. He and Mark Lane were always the best part. And Pierre and I both worked for the N-J – many years apart. I delivered the morning, evening, Sat, and Sun edition with a bicycle.Pierre wrote for the N-J and had a byline. We are NOT acquainted at all.

    I’ve had more than a few of my comments “moderated” – not allowed – and that’s fine too. I enjoy invective to much; and being my age, often think I’m entitled to curse as I please. My first comment on this article was meant for the usual suspects, but I addressed no one and merely made a quip about Tom Sawyer. It deserved to be buried.

    Mr.Tristam is the local journalist so desperately needed by all of us. I’m a gadfly and nuisance – glad for Flagler Live being here.

  20. ko_alumni says:

    Like him or not……he was elected the way we elect presidents. He’s following up immediately on his campaign promises. He is 70 and doesn’t need the job, or the money. He has more business experience, negotiation experience than most elected officials. He’s pushing for a healthcare plan that is BEING DISCUSSED, bounced around, changed, and using the process to create a better National Healthcare Plan. That beats having a national plan pushed down our throats, and an overpriced website that didn’t work for months.
    He’s polarizing. I didn’t vote for him and don’t particularly like his use of tweets and bullying practices. But Obama failed. Race relations are worse, Discrimination of all kinds, sex, AGE, religion are as bad as ever. The economy looks better because the government changed the way we measure things like unemployment. But look at the price of bread, insurance, the middle east, America’s respect/ world image, just about anything and tell me Obama or a democratic congress improved things. You would be lying to yourself and others. But believe it if you want……………I’m going to give this group of elected officials a chance.

  21. Katie Semore says:

    @ko_alumni: race relations are worse because racists and bigots couldn’t accept the fact that a man with Black blood flowing through his veins was president. Racist and bigots like those of minority races to know their place and in their narrow bigoted minds that is not the White House.

  22. ko_alumni says:

    Interesting response and I think that is a racist way of thinking about the problem. Your comment about “he has black blood running through is veins” is not correct, He has, just like you and me, RED blood running through his veins. He’s a different product of his experiences as we all are, and that is what makes his thinking or views different and similar to us. It was many of his views or solutions MOST people didn’t agree with him on. Or just didn’t work! The “race card” has to stop being thrown every time we disagree. It hurts the process of improvement and problem-solving. However, unfortunately bigots do exist and that extends to all the things I mentioned earlier, race, age, color, nationality, etc.
    I would love to take President Obama’s smooth and genuine way of speaking and connecting and President Trump’s ability to negotiate and get things done and role that up into one person. Not to fan the flames…..but Hillary wasn’t that person. Please don’t send me a Gender phobia response. I have no issues with a woman in the White House. I’ll be satisfied with a successful track record for working with others, competent and patriotic.

  23. Katie Semore says:

    @ko_alumni, I heard him cursed and called every kind of derogatory racial name known to mankind during his tenure as president. All one needs to do is read comments left at the bottom of many Internet articles regarding Obama to see how racist and bigoted this country still is. Not to mention those in positions of trust saying publicly that they would be happy to see a woman with class as the first lady instead of “an ape in heels.” These type of comments have nothing to do with differing political positions or desires but rather with the bigotry of those uttering such. No, I am not a minority. I am lily white with light hair and blue eyes.

  24. ko_alumni says:

    Shameful. I understand and agree. I’m not trying to defend bigotry. That is off point as to what I am trying to share. Derogatory remarks about blacks, Jews, women, etc., etc. should be called out when they are uttered. Free speech is not a protection for bigots. The internet masks and emboldens people so they say things without having to be held accountable. My point was about results. He or his policies did nothing to bring this country closer together. As example, the racial divide, the income disparity have increased. Instead of aspiring to be wealthy and seeing how the wealthy made their fortune, we denigrate them.

    Honestly I don’t have a good answer for it except to manage my behavior, lead by example and teach my children tolerance/acceptance the importance of budgeting and goal setting. Oh and never go into politics because people are only going to hear what they want to hear. Like this blog……nobody is listening they are just pontificating. Wishing you happiness. ko_alumni out.

  25. Pogo says:

    ko_alumni said:
    “Like him or not……he was elected the way we elect presidents…”

    He was elected by an antiquated agency of human slavery – the Electoral College. He was elected by Citizen United dark money. He was elected by Putin, and his global war on democracy. He lost the popular vote by almost 3 million votes. He has bald faced bullshitted the world about his ranking in electoral vote history, illegal voting, the attendance of his inauguration, and much more.

    ko_alumni said:
    “… He’s following up immediately on his campaign promises. He is 70 and doesn’t need the job, or the money. He has more business experience, negotiation experience than most elected officials…”

    He has signed everything put in front of him; enabling polluters, white collar criminals and other of his associates. We would all know if he needs the money if he released his tax returns. His entire career in politics before this election was a racist lie. Business is NOT a synonym for government.

    ko_alumni said:
    He’s pushing for a healthcare plan that is BEING DISCUSSED, bounced around, changed, and using the process to create a better National Healthcare Plan. That beats having a national plan pushed down our throats, and an overpriced website that didn’t work for months…”

    Thank you Mr. Ryan. How’s it going?

    ko_alumni said:
    “…He’s polarizing. I didn’t vote for him and don’t particularly like his use of tweets and bullying practices…”

    But you’re here to recommend him. Speaks volumes.

    ko_alumni said:
    “…But Obama failed. Race relations are worse, Discrimination of all kinds, sex, AGE, religion are as bad as ever…”

    What is your basis for this statement? Compared to what?

    ko_alumni said:
    “…The economy looks better because the government changed the way we measure things like unemployment…”

    What is the basis for this statement?

    ko_alumni said:
    “…But look at the price of bread, insurance, the middle east, America’s respect/ world image, just about anything and tell me Obama or a democratic congress improved things…”

    Your word salad is nonsense of Trump caliber. BTW, there’s a difference between a democratic congress and Democratic congress. Which one did you mean? Do you remember the price of a gallon of gasoline when Bush left? Do you remember Bush starting two wars without calling for one cent of war taxes to pay for them; without mentioning conscription to share the blood cost? Do you remember Bush setting the world on fire to fight terrorism? Ask any country boy with rats in his shed if it makes sense to burn down the shed to kill the rats. If he’s not a Republican he probably knows cats, traps, and common sense are a better way to go.

    ko_alumni said:
    “…You would be lying to yourself and others. But believe it if you want……………I’m going to give this group of elected officials a chance…”

    People who traffic in alternative facts should be a lot more circumspect about speaking of lying. Eight years of Republican doing nothing has done plenty of harm. Add the eight years of Bush 43 that came before. Lots of harm to us all. President Obama rescued a lazy drowning drunk. Name one time a Republican lifted a finger to help. President Obama is human and not perfect. He has never claimed to be perfect. Compared to the strutting, boasting blowhard Trump – and Trump’s fans – and I am proud of president Obama. When has the boasting liar Trump ever admitted an error or apologized for anything? Trump the liar and traitor; his cabinet of clowns, kooks, and crooks – their alternative facts – don’t deserve any more chances.

  26. ko_alumni says:

    Wow….you dissected each of my responses. Bottom line……read my response a little more slowly……I didn’t recommend Trump. I didn’t say the past administrations did a good job on specific issues like the war in Iraq. I don’t know if you are a lover of American history but we can find faulty decisions going all the way back to Washington himself. All I said was I am going to give this elected group of officials a chance. Something you are obviously going to be angry about for the next four years. Hope hating/insulting Republicans (A party platform that needs great reforming) and trying to label people works for you and makes you feel better about yourself. He is doing what the people who voted for him asked him to do. You’ve made the decision that I agree with all he is doing and your decision is wrong. Insulting my opinion with your word salad doesn’t make you right either. (Love that phrase….thank you)

  27. ko_alumni says:

    Pogo…..forgot one thing. When I mentioned there have been faulty decisions by Presidents going back to Washington……since you like real examples…..Democratic President Carter – Spiraling inflation. Iran 444, Interest rates of over 18%, and gas lines to name a few things. Democratic President Johnson…..escalated the Vietnam war where 58,168 of our young men and women died to stop Communist Aggression. How’d that work out? Republican President Nixon – Impeached, Democratic President Clinton – Even though he was acquitted he was only the second president to be impeached. Separate from the impeachment, Clinton was found guilty of lying under oath. As punishment for perjury, Clinton was disbarred and is no longer able to practice law.

  28. Pogo says:

    @ko_alumni and anyone reading this

    Read the message that these last 2 posts by ko_alumni purports to reply to. I’ll give ko credit – as slippery as Conway with Teflon.

    I’ve been doing this since the early days of Usenet and CompuServe.

    Q: Ask yourself what the topic of all these replies, spin, etc is.

    A: Trump’s wall.

    To bring this home – and I mean home literally – I’d much prefer the resources that will be squandered on duh wall be devoted to dealing with beach erosion; storm proofing our power grid, water and sewer systems, storm drainage, storm and emergency evacuation, etc, etc. How about you?

    Of course, none of that serves Trump’s real purposes of scapegoating immigrants, creating graft laden boondoggles, and promising anything to desperate credulous voters.To borrow a word – SAD.

  29. ko_alumni says:

    Pogo….I agree with your ideas and the value/importance of the above mentioned projects/initiatives. I’d include not just storm-proofing our power grid, but updating and protecting it from cyber-threats. It should not be an either/or. We live in scary times where enemies of our belief systems wish to see us beaten. Small groups, not armies can cause catastrophic harm to our way of life. My intent is not fear-mongering for those who are looking for an Achilles heal to strike back at my response. It is just my opinion based on the power and devastation that today’s technology is capable of producing.
    As you know, the role of any national government is to protect the safety and well-being of its citizens and the sovereignty of the country’s borders. If the most efficient way to protect our border from those that wish our country harm (national security) was the focus……that would be inclusive, something to protect all of us.
    The concept of national security and protecting our borders should be separated from immigration reform. Those that spew ethnic hatred (as you said scapegoating immigrants) and use the “Wall” as their banner cry are as obsolete as building a tall physical structure. In my opinion… any level of government. Unfortunately the lines have been blurred and I don’t see a strong enough voice to separate the issues. A sound idea of protecting our citizens from harm has been lost in the morass of hate-speak.

Leave a Reply

FlaglerLive's forum, as noted in our comment policy, is for debate and conversation that adds light and perspective to articles. Please be courteous, don't attack fellow-commenters or make personal attacks against individuals in stories, and try to stick to the subject. All comments are moderated.

Read FlaglerLive's Comment Policy | Subscribe to the Comment Feed rss flaglerlive comment feed rss

More stories on FlaglerLive

FlaglerLive Email Alerts

Enter your email address to get alerts.


suppert flaglerlive flagler live palm coast flagler county news pierre tristam florida
news service of florida
FlaglerLive is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization | P.O. Box 254263, Palm Coast, FL 32135 | Contact the Editor by email | (386) 586-0257 | Sitemap | Log in