When the Palm Coast City Council meets Tuesday morning, it will almost certainly vote on a new city manager. It’ll be either David Fraser or Michael McGlothlin.
The council interviewed both last week, in individual one-on-one sessions and collectively, in open session. Council members were pleased and impressed with both candidates, neither of whom appears to have an inside track, both of whom seem to have an equal chance by the time the council votes. It’ll be among the more difficult council votes, a difficulty the council welcomes. At least three council members think there’s no wrong choice, whoever is picked.
Fraser and McGlothlin presented as candidates with the same serious and prepared demeanor as the two candidates–Richard Hough and Paul Trombino–who made it to the final round the last time the council tried to hire a manager, back in April. But they were vastly different in notable ways. Neither Fraser nor McGlothlin has Hough’s overeagerness and self-certitude. Neither could be called “goofy,” as a local official termed Trombino. Neither lacks for city and county managing experience, as both Hough and Trombino did.
With Hough and Trombino, the council was clearly facing the last two men standing after several finalists, including those the council had favored most, had dropped out before they were ruled out. With Fraser and McGlothlin, the council has the finalists it wanted. Mayor Mike Norris this time even held his one-on-one interviews with each in an actual office at City Hall rather than at his pick-up truck’s tailpipe, as he did in April. The whole process had a more serious, more respectful and deliberate air about it.
The following is a summary of Fraser’s and McGlothlin’s appearances before the council last week–Fraser for just over an hour, McGlothlin for less than 40 minutes. Four council members asked prepared questions. Norris did not.
When, nearly an hour into his interview, Council member Theresa Pontieri asked Fraser what would be “a good win” for this council, Fraser reached for his water bottle and brought it to his lips before pulling it back to say: “The obvious answer is, hire me.” He laughed, then drank. “Touché,” Pontieri told him.
It wasn’t quite arrogance–Frasier isn’t lacking in self-confidence–but bureaucratic wit: he’d clearly hesitated, thinking rapidly with that water bottle delay whether he should say it or not, though by then he’d established that he’s got an understated sense of humor. He likes to deliver the occasional offbeat line (“I do like to make HR squirm a little bit at the beginning of these things,” he’d said, before talking about his wife, four children and four grandchildren, but not his age. He’s 58.)
As for the good win, he said “nice and steady” leadership would be it. “There’s nothing greater that the public can give you than their confidence.”
Fraser was mostly comfortable at the lectern, self-assured, only occasionally laughing nervously. He spoke without referring to notes or reading statements. He summarized the white paper the council asked him to submit about how he sees the first year on his watch, including such things as “setting a foundation of trust and purpose” and other aspirational goals, “accountability,” “openness,” “minding our resources” (the city’s mission is “not to make money,” he said, but to marshal its resources) and managing growth.
“A growing city is healthy. You think it’s painful this way, try moving in the other direction and shrinking,” Fraser said. But the city should diversify its retail and industrial base so when residential growth slows down, the city is economically prepared to weather the slowdown.
He does not consider “bureaucracy” a dirty word: he uses it to describe himself, if by invoking Disney to describe how important it is to “get to yes.” He said he’ll be a visible manager in the community, welcoming encounters with anyone. He intends to learn city business “yesterday,” describing his first day rather than his first 30 or 100: holding a department head meeting that day, and touring the city individually with each department head to see things from each of their perspectives even as they drive past the same things. He’ll ask the council members to do the same, if they’re willing. He’s been cramming his way through city documents.
Economic development and growth management dominated the interview. He spoke–in an answer to a question by Council member Charles Gambaro–about applying for “brownfield grants,” which don’t seem to have much applicability in Palm Coast: not only does the city have no industrial sites to remediate. It has no industrial sites, a couple of Hargrove Grade-like exceptions aside.
He said a few things sure to resonate with council members, as when he described a recent speech he heard at a municipal association meeting that highlighted “how much time we spend trying to figure out whose fault something is. The real question is, whose problem is this?” The perspective suggests a take-charge attitude without the distraction of blame.
Council member Dave Sullivan tried a philosophical question, setting it up by describing government as “parasitic,” as an institution that takes from taxpayers. Sullivan repeated the inaccurate post-Reagan conservative liturgy about government not creating value, then asked: “Is it possible for the government to actually create value?” Sullivan asked him.
Fraser gently rejected the assumption of government as “parasitic” by reminding Sullivan that “the government in our country is the people, and they’ve elected you guys to represent them.” As for value, “Yes, absolutely, you have to” create it, he said, whether through public safety or providing other services the private sector won’t. Fraser offered a treat to address the first part of Sullivan;’s set-up (about government always taking): “I don’t promise this can eternally be true, but it has been so far,” Fraser said, “in my proposed budgets, I have yet to propose a tax increase.”
He then provided a discursive story, ostensibly to illustrate his point, about his days in Boulder City that brought that one answer to six minutes. It was difficult to keep up with its non-sequiturs, its point being that Boulder City leased enough land to California, by way of California’s power demands on Hoover Dam, to account for 28 percent of Boulder City’s general fund revenue for 40 years. The applicability of that sort of “creativity” in Palm Coast seemed as elusive as the applicability of Brownfield grants.
In answer to a question about residents’ needs locally, he said he knows traffic is a big local concern, though he said “it is a matter of perspective.” He’s dealt with Las Vegas traffic. He addressed the question by referring to Steven Covey’s recommendations on to-do lists: Traffic would be on his.
Council Member Ty Miller asked him to describe how he’d manage growth without costing Palm Coast its character. “A big part of it is knowing who you want to be when you grow up, for lack of a better way to put it,” he said, “so that all the decisions you’re making are leading you in that direction, rather than haphazardly making decisions and just seeing where you end up.”
He seemed to be describing the comprehensive plan that Palm Coast just completed, though he didn’t spell it out in those terms, but–in a reflection of his awareness of the erosion of home rule–noted that the Florida Legislature has handcuffed Palm Coast in some of those decisions. “You just got to be looking further down the road,” he said, focusing on infrastructure.
He favors amending the charter to make it easier for the city to enter into public-private partnerships, with guard-rails, which would entail lifting a cap on how much the city may borrow, and for how long, when it does so through its general fund. The public, he said, would have to be brought along through an effective public-education campaign.
As for the mechanics of management, “it’s all about the team.”
Gambaro asked him about the turnover past and future at the council, and whether that would give him “pause and reservation.” Right about then the majority of the lights in the chamber went off: an ominous sign.
Taking it in stride, Fraser answered with an allegory about the inevitability of turnover, including for city managers. “Have you churned through enough recently that it gives me pause, to use your words? I’m absolutely aware of that,” Fraser said. He’d asked council members individually whether he was signing up for another “brief encounter,” a curiously daring reference to the Noel Coward play and movie about a brief, intense, almost tragic affair. “And I don’t want to come for a brief encounter. I want to come in and dig in, and you really need some consistency and some longevity from your manager in order to accomplish the things that you want to do.”
He added: “Whether it’s me or whoever it is, choose the right person.” He told the council, as McGlothlin soon would, that he would always take the councils’ direction but it will always have the benefit of what he thinks. His interview approach had made that clear.
McGlothlin, 57, is the more Southern of the two candidates–Fraser’s career has mostly been west of the Rockies, with an exception in Michigan and Kansas, McGlothlin’s mostly in the South, with an exception in Oregon.
He was more formal than Fraser, a bit more nervous. He did not try humor. He read from a brief opening statement before going into his quick biography–38 years in government, chief of police for a decade, assistant city manager in Fayetteville, N.C., and other such stints in Oregon and Florida. His work plan included the various items the city itself identified as challenges ahead (the western expansion, infrastructure, growth management) and the goals he identified–“political and council relations,” “ensuring public safety” and “operational complexities.”
The first one was clear enough: the council and the administration need the stability of a permanent manager and a less anxious administration. “Ensuring public safety” seemed based more on his familiarity and comfort with policing than with a city that, under its policing contract with the sheriff, is enjoying a remarkably safe and stable era of public safety and confidence in public safety agencies–both the Sheriff’s Office and the city’s fire department. Public safety, in other words, is not a challenge or an issue.
Yet McGlothlin was well aware of the city’s current relationship with the sheriff. “Everyone is very happy with the services that are provided, and the services that are provided are provided very well for this community,” McGlothlin said when not looking at his notes, “and until that would change, I would see no reason to make a change now.” As a former police chief, he called himself “very impressed” with the Sheriff’s Office. His strays away from his notes would be his best moments.
“I consider challenges to be opportunities,” he said, listing–reading–those challenges as “strategic planning and development, community engagement” and other familiar municipal concepts. He likes data-driven analysis, “triaging of high-priority concerns,” “metrics,” identifying “what makes this a success for us,” while keeping the community informed.
“A community that is informed is involved,” he said. He wants “the formalization of communication channels between the city manager, city council staff and the public,” though what he meant by “formalization” wasn’t clear.
McGlothlin had a tendency to speak in more theoretical, almost jargon-heavy language rather than in concrete, conversational terms, as when Miller asked him how he would address growth management. “I would like to operationally lead a multi-faceted strategy to leverage existing planning initiatives, prioritize infrastructure investment and balance economic development activities with the protection of the city’s natural resources and preservation of its character that are important to the community,” he said.
It was difficult to decrypt. To “leverage” planning initiatives in what sense? Against what? Isn’t the city already prioritizing infrastructure investment with its just-approved half-billion-dollar investment in utilities? He continued, reading from a prepared text: “I would like to implement smart growth principles that would encourage mixed use development, or at least a proposal thereof, as well as enhancing transportation options.” He spoke of transparency, “empowering staff” and fostering “community engagement.”
Pontieri asked him to pick one priority he would “triage,” as he had outlined in his initial presentation. He said he would choose infrastructure. Again reading from prepared notes, he said: “The goal would be to address Palm Coast infrastructure challenges by using strategic, data-driven planning, secure diverse sources of funding and fostering interdepartmental collaboration. I’d just like to start the approach by coordinated, data-driven planning, like I said, secure diverse and dedicated funding by utilizing impact fees, the adjustment of utility fees as necessary, aggressively pursue state and federal grants, as well as consider bond issuance as a discussion item. I would also like to prioritize critical upgrades and compliance to avoid system failures and penalties, and that would include wastewater system modernization.”
He might as well have been reading a technical summary of precisely what the council and its administration accomplished over the past year, down to data-driven analysis, impact fee and rate increases and bond issuance.
He was far clearer and more assertive when he wasn’t reading from his notes, as when he answered a question regarding public-private partnerships. McGlothlin said he would seek to have “a seat at the table” at various levels of government, taking advantage of relationships he’s developed over the years, in Florida especially in the last two years. Clearly uninterested in pandering, he was skeptical about Sullivan’s suggestion that sports tourism would be boosted. “I would want to study that further, sir, to be honest with you,” he said, citing a two-decade distance since he last dealt with sports tourism. “I understand the attraction and the allure, but I would want to make sure that there is definitely a return on the investment for the dollars spent that would come back into the community.”
It was the first straight, jargon-free, unrehearsed answer of the interview. He was equally comfortable with a Gambaro question–prefaced by Gambaro’s tribute to McGlothlin’s military and law enforcement service–about emergency management, which played a significant role in the candidate’s career. He relied on specific experiences through hurricanes such as Helene, when his community (Redington Shores) lost a third of its residential housing, and balanced the question between the technocratic and the humane.
“You can imagine the devastation. So it was very impactful,” he said, describing how the city’s building department had to rebuild. “At least half of our staff lost something, whether that was a vehicle, all of their vehicles, all of their vehicles, in their homes. So at the same time, we had to be responsive to our workforce and support them as they were trying to do their best to help overcome this tragedy.” He’d not looked at his notes once for that answer.
He complimented the city on its financial practices, though he proposed doing an internal review to improve efficiencies. “I put the same level of importance on $7 of citizens’ tax money as I do with $700 million,” he said, delivering the sort of line that probably had council members applauding in their minds.
Regarding his relations with the council, he was direct: “I’m not necessarily making a recommendation. I’m giving you the good, the bad and the ugly, because I want you to have everything at your fingertips to ensure that you can make the very best policy decisions.” As for turnover and “pause,” McGlothlin had no hesitation, and no pause. “None at all,” he said.
“I do hope that I am that candidate,” McGlothlin concluded. “I believe I’m the right fit, I believe at the right time in my career, and I would look forward to not only retiring from Palm Coast when I finally decided to do so, but also do so as a resident of Palm Coast. So I would like to thank you as well for the opportunity.”
Gambaro in a final word thanked city staff, led by Human Resources Director Renina Fuller. The administration coordinated the search and conducted all parts of its mechanics behind the scenes, up to turning over the qualifying resumes. Gambaro called the process “exceptional” and “so much of a better process than what we had when we had an executive search firm. And quite frankly, I don’t hope we don’t ever do that again.”
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