Get ready to see a lot more Black Hawk helicopters flying around Flagler County’s airport in the heart of Palm Coast as a new company moves in, bringing with it almost three dozen jobs.
The Flagler County Commission on Monday in a 3-1 vote approved a 30-year lease with Van Damme Helicopters, a company that repairs and repurposes for civilian uses Black Hawks that are no longer used by the military. Commissioner Kim Carney dissented and expressed some reservations. Commissioner Leann Pennington was absent.
Van Damme Helicopters for the past seven years has operated in a 12,000 square foot facility in an industrially zoned area in Pompano Beach. It works on about a dozen helicopters a year. It’s hoping to double that volume. “I met with them several times last year,” Airport Director Roy Sieger said. “They looked at many different airports in Florida, and they finally settled: We want to come here to Flagler.”
Investing $1.5 million to $2 million in construction, the company will build a metal 150 ft. by 100 ft. hangar with associated apron, office space, a taxi lane, a driveway, a parking lot, and some additional site work. The plant is expected to create 30 jobs.
Though they have not yet been precisely calculated, the lease terms appear generous: the company will pay just $1,089 per acre per month, once its total land use is surveyed. For example, in the example provided by Sieger, if the company uses 1.43 acres, it’ll be charged $1,557 a month. The rent will increase by 3 percent a year. Sieger, who rejected Commissioner Kim Carney’s suggestion that it’s a low price, estimates the property will be an acre to an acre and a half. If it was a county-owned building, the charge would be far higher, around $10,000 a month, and it might not get leased, he said. “This model makes a great return on investment,” he said.
The company will pay property taxes, though the amounts are not known and will not be shown on the property appraiser’s website, since the facility will be built on county-owned land. The company will also be assessed tangible taxes. (An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported that the company would not pay property taxes; since the company will own the building for the next 30 years, it will do so.) The county would also be getting the benefit of a hangar which, in 30 years, will revert to the county. The company can remain there, but “at that point they can start paying fair market value for what that hangar would cost to rent at that time,” Sieger said.
Sieger focused on the expected economic benefits. “It is one of the biggest economic engines that our county has,” he said of the airport, adding with a little exaggeration: “It is the only airport, the only piece of property that has everything that we need, has the power, has a sewer, has the land, has the storm water. It has everything to bring businesses here.” Palm Coast’s Town center, across the street, for example, has all those benefits.
Roy Zucker, a real estate broker involved in the deal, told the commission that Van Damme Helicopters wanted to move to Flagler for two reasons: a larger space to accommodate its production, and “a better lifestyle for their employees. Their technicians, their engineers, are highly educated people. They want better schools,” Zucker said. (Curiously, Broward County schools have been B-rated like Flagler County schools until 2024, when they became an A-rated district. Flagler schools did not.)
“These are these aircraft are going to fly in and then they’re going to get taken apart and then rebuilt again,” Sieger said of the UH-60 Black Hawk, still the workhorse of the American military. “There will be some flight training with them. But the nice thing is, not flight training, like, students, it’ll be people just doing flight testing. They can fly with that within the airport property, or they’ll leave the airport.”
Sieger was speaking cautiously about training flights because the airport and local elected officials have been pummeled by some residents’ complaints about the flight school whose planes at the airport are in near-constant touch-and-go mode, aggravating nearby residents. A few residents addressed the County Commission to that effect today, though the airport is zoned industrial and pre-dates the vast majority of residential neighborhoods.
“The more planes we have, the more helicopters we have, the more that puts the population at risk,” Chantal Preuninger, who moved into her Zeppo Court house in 2022, west of the airport, told the commission. “So I would ask you to consider before you take any decisions regarding those, extension of airports or bringing more helicopters, if you can remember that we are people, and we live in that neighborhood, and take decisions that are working for us before businesses.” Preuninger said she did not know there was a flight school at the airport when she moved in. “We are more important. We live there,” she said, asking for the flight school to be relocated.
Zucker said the helicopters would not be flying in and out every day. Some sit on the ground for months as they’re being worked on.
Carney, the commissioner, said she was not opposed to the lease as a concept. She was displeased with the fact that the item appeared on the consent portion of the commission agenda–the portion that includes numerous, ostensibly routine items that all get voted on wholesale, without discussion. The item had not been part of a workshop ahead of time. Carney said she studied the 23-page lease but could not expect the public to have had that sort of understanding when the commission itself did not treat the item with more transparency. She wanted to understand the noise factor in the context of a proposed airport zoning ordinance.
“I need to understand that there’s a safety value. I need to understand that the noise level is not going to interfere with our friends and colleagues that live around us,” Carney said. “I think that a 15-minute presentation was much more in line than putting this on the Consent Agenda.” Commission Chair Andy Dance said the item would have worked better as an individual item of discussion if only to disclose the benefits of the lease to the public.
On the other hand, Tom Albano, a resident, called himself “miffed” at the resistance. “If I want to work on helicopters, airplanes, I got to do it in an airport, so I got to lease property from the airport,” he said. “I’d have to hate to jump through every who to do it. I feel bad for this realtor guy having to come up here and jump through all these hoops trying to bring a $2 million building in.”
Sieger cautioned the commission and the public: “Because we are an airport, and because we have leasable land, we can’t tell–literally, because of grant assurances–we’re really not allowed to tell businesses, aviation businesses, that they can’t come to our airport. We can’t. We’re a public-use airport.” Doing so would jeopardize the airport’s grants in the future.
He also reminded the county of an unhappy history at the airport, when the county built a hangar instead of the private company that leased it. That was the Ginn hangar, which the county built at its own expense on Ginn’s pledge to use it. Ginn went bankrupt, leaving the county holding the bag for that loan in 2010. “We were stuck with that note, almost $3.8 million, and I will tell you, I’ve been here almost 16 years. I think we just paid that note off,” Sieger said, justifying the safer approach of having a private company build a building at its own expense. If it were to go out of business, the building would remain in the county’s hands.
Tony says
Just what P.C. needs = more noisy air traffic especially helicopters !!!!
CPFL says
If anyone has experience with helicopters in rework they know it is more time on the ground than in the air. Towards the end of the cycle they will need to do some time on the ground getting the engines right, balancing the rotor and blades (may take a few turns to get it right….all which require the jets being powered up. It is not a long or difficult process and when complete they take tot he air and tweak adjustments from data once on the ground. Pretty sure this would mostly take place during regular business hours.
Cannot wait for all the people that chose to live by an airport to start complaining.
Pogo says
@Start your engines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5JixQHybOQ
Yee haw…
BJHH says
I have lived by a rework facility only once in my lifetime. I vowed to never live by one again. The noise is unbelievable. The engines have to be revved up to test them. I live right along the airport . How will I ever be able to sell this home of my dreams. I understand how this is good for the City but not good for all of the city’s residents.
Larry says
The monthly lease amount is way too low.
3% annual increase for the lease amount is also way too low.
Hopefully the lease doesn’t allow the tenant to sub-lease (sublease either all or part of their hangar). Because if the company has financial difficulties, they probably could make a massive profit subleasing the property to a different entity. The reason they’d make a ton of money subleasing is because Flagler County severely underpriced the lease and worse….locked in for 30 years.
Did Flager County provide any market comparisons of what other Florida and S Georgia airports charge for a comparable land lease?
This tenant probably chose Flagler because Flagler’s lease is basically a give away…a 30 year gift to some company that said it will provide a whopping 30 jobs.
Skibum says
For all you people who have been so vociferous about noisy and supposedly “dangerous” student pilot training planes landing and taking off from our local airport… you haven’t seen NOTHIN yet! Just wait until the extremely loud Black Hawk military helicopters start arriving for maintenance work and the subsequent maintenance flights following repairs! Those things are out of this world NOISY!
Jim says
Amazing, Chantal Preuninger moves into her home by the airport in 2022 and complains about flight schools that have been operating there for years. Of course, not her fault that she did no research knowing she was buying by an airport, it should be the citizens of PC that correct and pay for this serious grievance! Is anyone familiar with the phrase “stupid should hurt”.
Jim says
There were 3 people who accounted for over 3,000 of the approximately 3,200 complaints filed in the airport complaint portal. I expect they will post the most complaints yet again. One of them has been harping about the flight school noise for many years and never has anything to support her claims
Jim says
The lease is for a little over an acre of raw land. The tennat is going to build offices and a hanger on their dime. The buildings revert to the airport at lease termination without the airport paying a dime. Is this really a bad deal for the County?
Thomas Hutson says
Sorry for the coming noisy mess to you residents in Seminole Woods. It’s time for you all to realize your county commissioners could care less about you! They listen to County Manager and Sieger on how great this is going to be. Wow what a great give away again , oh and what law or grant stipulation tells the County who or what business to lease property to. How many additional planes and helicopters are Baby Mussolini’s private army bringing?
Vlad says
This will be a great way for our Russian oligarchs to travel around their new territory(formerly america ). Agent Krasnov has done mother Russia proud!
XYZ says
Just remember this folks when voting time comes around: PAM RICHARDSON,
ANDY DANCE, GREG HANSEN, the 3 poisons for this county voted on it as
Richardson continues with her butt kissing. Next time around VOTE THEM OUT!
Capt. Smirk says
Along with this, no news about the residential fly in community they are about to greenlight that nobody outside of the municipalities is able to follow?
Cindy Jameson says
Where are the 30 jobs and who are those jobs for? What department are they going to be hiring for? From what I understand from reading the article this company wants a better lifestyle for THEIR employees. THEIR technicians, engineers. Sounds to me the company will be relocating THEIR employees. How is that bringing jobs to Flagler County?
Jim says
Economic Impact of Helicopter Business
Many have stated they think the bargain lease the airport has granted the repair company is crazy and that it should have been much higher. Let’s look at the potential economic impact to the local economy from this business.
An average family of 4 spends approximately $3,000 a month on food, clothing, drugs and other necessities. That is $36,000 per year generating sales tax revenue of $2,520 per family. With 36 families working the sales tax amount is $90,720 annually and $2,721,600 over thirty years.
Assuming the workers buy a decent home in Palm Coast for $500,000 they will pay approximately $4,000 in property taxes annually. That is $144,000 a year for the entire work force and aggregates to $4,320,000 over thirty years
A refurbished Black Hawk helicopter sells for $1.7 million to $6.0 million. An average sale price of $3.5 million will generate $245,000 in sales taxes, they currently rehab 12 per year which equates to $2,940,000 annually and $88,200,000 over thirty years.
These items will aggregate an annual boost to the local government’s funds of $3,174,720 and will aggregate over $95 MILLION in thirty years. Keep in mind that is based on their current level of operations and as noted in the article they expect that to double.
IMO, granting the company an attractive lease to get them to locate here is a pretty good deal for the local economy.
chuck C says
All well and good if they sold helicopters. They do repair and service work.
Ray W, says
Thank you, Jim.
I know this is not apples to apples, and I know that I have commented on this before, but the Daytona Beach Racing & Recreational Facilities District was legislatively created in 1953. Its purpose? To administer the public land on which the International Speedway Corporation was to build sometime in the future the Daytona International Speedway-owned track. For the first 10 years, Bill France, Sr., paid $3,333 per year on the huge tract of land. The amount then shifted to $10,000 per year. When last I checked, the district receives payment of $500,000 per year.
No one knew in 1953 whether a track would ever be built on the land. Even if the track were built, no one knew at the time whether it would succeed.
So long as my father lived, he told me of the tale that if the first 500 had been rained out, the entire effort would have stopped, because multiple loan payments and a mortgage payment were due the Monday after the race. Mr. France had mortgaged everything he owned and borrowed whatever he could borrow to finance the construction of the track. He sold 400,000 shares of ISC stock at a dollar a share to raise some of the needed funds.
How would my father be privy to this?
In 1952, my father was elected to Daytona’s city commission. Prior to being sworn in, a friend stopped by the house to ask my father to go with him to meet Big Bill. At the meeting, Mr. France drew his vision of a track on a NASCAR notepad, complete with the 4-digit phone number. My father kept the notepad drawing. He also kept the architect’s artist’s rendition of the speedway. Decades later, he offered the two items back to the speedway staff when they were creating a speedway museum.
During the 1952 meeting, my father agreed to make building the track a centerpiece of his mandate to serve the people of Daytona Beach. In 1953, when the district gained legislative life, my father was one of five founding members of the Commission. He served on it for 43 years. I attended a number of Commission meetings as his guest. As the financial records were public record, I read many of the financial reports over the decades.
My father represented the speedway in numerous legal issues, most importantly in a federal administrative hearing to grant the speedway effort an exemption from FAA regulations that would have prevented the speedway from ever being built, as the plans called for the west banking to be built far too close to one of the runways.
Initially, to goal was for the city to raise the money to build the track through a bond issue. My father shepherded the issue during his term on the commission. He resigned to run for other office but kept up his efforts. When the city arranged the financing to build the track, my mother and father flew to NYC to sign the bond offering on behalf of the city, but the day before the scheduled signing, American steel workers went on strike and the bond offering was withdrawn. The politically fragile city effort to build the track fell apart.
Mr. France decided to build the track on his own. He mortgaged his home, his tools, and all of his other assets and he borrowed from whomever he could persuade. Clint Murchison, the owner of the Dallas Cowboys at the time, owned a small life insurance company in Arkansas. That company loaned the final sum that made the viability of the fragile private effort possible.
To save money, various city and county road and bridge agencies loaned heavy equipment at no cost to build the track. Mr. France has to pay for the fuel and had to maintain and repair the equipment, but nothing else. Ford gave recently developed engineering plans to Daytona’s city engineer, who worked for free after hours. Ford’s engineers had calculated the geometry needed to ensure a graduated progression into and a graduated recession out of the high-banked turns while building a new test track. It was a community effort.
Again, a rainout would have derailed everything. Had everyone with a legally prosecutable claim not been paid on time, the entire effort would have failed through foreclosure. Good weather meant good attendance. A rainout meant poor attendance on the Monday following the race and insufficient money to meet all of the necessary financial obligations.
It wasn’t NASCAR on the line. It was Daytona International Speedway Corporation and its only asset at the time was the newly finished track. It didn’t even own the land on which the track was built.
No one can begrudge the France family for its ongoing financial success, given that financial ruination loomed had it rained.
I am not arguing either in favor or against the airport lease terms. There is no mention of whether the business can obtain with certainty the necessary future financing to build the structure. All I am arguing is that no one knows right now what the future might bring. Great success or abject failure, perhaps? Somewhere in between the two extremes?
In time, perhaps, the lease terms may be adjusted, as conditions permit.
BLINDSPOTTING says
Jim: STOP MISINFORMING THE PUBLIC WITH YOUR FALSE NARRATIVE as you
spew the same airport troll rhetoric.There were over 500 complaints that were to be
investigated from that portal that were questioned many times at county meetings,
WHAT HAPPENNED TO THOSE COMPLAINTS NEVER ANSWERED! Did Sieger throw
them into the trash like his disassembled airport advisory committee reported him doing
back in 2019? There are residents complaining all over Palm Coast about flight schools
flying too low along with the noise of the low flying planes which is why the city will not
support the airport overlay ordinance as Sieger and Mengel lied most of their way through
with their half ass copied and pasted generic presentation where the two bozos couldn’t even
answer important questions presented by council woman Pontieri and Mayor Norris. How
about informing the public thst Sieger is the OMBUDSMAN for this airport which is a
MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST! You couldn’t care less about residents safety,
welfare and qualty of life. We have over 1500 signatures collected of residents who are
affected and growing. In the event of a catastrophe are you going to pay for punitive
damages because both the city and the county will be sued and we will be providing the
insurance companies with all the information they need, you are doing no justice
for the citizens of this county with your false narritives.
BLINDSPOTTING says
Jim: Look everyone Jim has the figures all figured out, HOW MUCH
IS JIM MAKING ON THIS! Go back whereever you came from, you
walk into our city like another carpet bagger not caring about the publics health,
welfare, safety, not caring about residents who has lived here for 20-30 years.
Tear down this donut hole airport and make a green space with a mall , this
is no economic engine by no means and to wait for 30 years to yield its positive
effects if any is too long to reap if any benefits. Let’s talk about the here now, not
30 years from now.
XYZ says
Jim: BTW, the land being zoned industrial does not mean that
industrial impact can change residential zoning by over burdening
the industrial property WITHOUT NOISE MITIGATION, the need
for SOUND WALLS AND OTHER MITIGATION MEASURES.
The zoning board has to APPROVE and REVIEW these permits and
we will hold them accountable. So listen up zoning review board.
If there is noise and fumes encroaching into surrounding zoning
is CODE ENFORCEMENT going to addtress? Because something has
different zoning that’s not a free pass to be a nuisance neighbor.
Industrial zoning requires BUFFERS for transition between zoning.
The county eill have to obtain EASEMENTS to and from the airport.
The purpose and intent of industrial performance standards is to provide
reasonable measures to PROTECT RESIDENTIAL, BUSINESS DISTRICTS,
and PUBLIC PROPERTY FROM POTENTIAL NEGATIVES IMPACTS
OF ODOR, FUMES, SMOKE, NOISE, HEAT, GLARE, VIBRATION, SOOT,
DUST WHICH IS ASSOCIATED WITH INDUSTRIAL USES GRNERAL
PROVISIONS: The following performance standards addresses a series of
potential nuisances or possible sources of pollution or other public, health,
safety and welfare concerns. All measures shall be enforced at the property
lines. No part of any industrial zones shall be used or allowed to be used at
any time for the manufacture, storage, distribution or sale for any product
or the furnishing of any service in a manner which is inconsistant with the
requirements of the ordinance. No activity shall be carried on which mabe or
may become dangerous to the public health, safety, or welfare which increases
the FIRE INSURANCE RATE FOR ADJOURNING OR ADJACENT PROPERTY
OR WHICH IS ILLEGAL. https://www.flaglercounty.gov/files/assets/county/v/1/growth-management/documents/i-flagler-county-fl-code-o.pdf
http://www.flaglercounty.gov I will just leave this right here and we will be checking as well.
-t says
Well, is the airport injuring those three people when there is no avigation easement on their property? If so, they are owed damages according to the FAA document LAND ACQUISITION FOR PUBLIC AIRPORTS document. That includes making their property incompatible would include market purchase price AND moving expenses.
Some articles about airspace versus land owner rights that are worth a read are:
https://aviation.uslegal.com/ownership-of-airspace-over-property/
and
https://aviation.uslegal.com/ownership-of-airspace-over-property/rights-in-airspace-and-relative-rights-of-surface-proprietors/?fbclid=IwY2xjawIwDQpleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHZV7blfIvpxe0zDFdDoohSI-Ko16T8nf8KWd4mYVTdXksRrof6sX83jNiw_aem_o_JGR2u49pwIUoA-zpKa1A
oconnell says
Thank you that’s good to know
BLINDSPOTTING says
Where is the public review before this permit to operate was approved by the county, the
FCBOCC did the same tactics when they invited in the flight schools, this is total BS! They slammed
dunked stuff then make the public complain which is public waste and harm! Where is CODE ENFORCEMENT
involved in this? Does the operation have the proper NOISE AND FUME MITIGATION? There are no airport
easements on our homes since there was NO PUBLIC REVIEW. Helicopters create damage through
vibrations , our homes will be filled with cracks since these helicopters fly so low! This operation is not
the military these are once again siegers rich buddies buying helicopters for fun! And they are repairing them
for fun and taking them on test flights to see if their new toys work and can crash into a home if the fix was faulty
This violates Flagler County’s industrial zoning code, does this involve homeowners getting speciality
insurance on our homes to which of the code restricts that as part of their permission to use industrial zoning???
These people are actually being SQUATTERS FOR FREE, THEY ARE TAKING AWAY THE USE OF OUR PROPERTIES!
Did the county ever read the Land Acquisition document???? They have to pay the full price of our homes
and relocation expenses.
celia pugliese says
A Black Hawk helicopter typically produces noise levels around 108 decibels (dB), which is considered very loud and can potentially cause hearing damage if not protected against with earplugs; depending on the flight conditions and distance from the helicopter, the noise level can vary slightly. https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA384583#:~:text=Peak%20sound%20pressure%20levels%20ranged%20from%20134%20dB%20to%20161%20dB.
Remember well who voted for this and who was also “absent”.
-t says
Or the county has to buy out and pay for the relocated the 16K residents that the land use attorney said would be impacted by the new ordinance that deems their land use as incompatible with the airport. Then the county loses the property taxes of that many households/employees/ already existing businesses to accommodate a future business with a large negative footprint/low employee (30) who is paying less rent than what you would pay for a 1 bedroom apartment for over an acre of land.
It might be more cost efficient to return the airport improvement funds to the FAA and retain local control of the airport growth to ensure compliance with the local zoning codes to retain a community/airport balance. The airport manager is already in breach by not executing the action items in the timeline outlined by the FAA. Use it as an opportunity to pay it back and make it right. It would be inline with the current administration’s government spending reduction initiative.
XYZ says
WHAT A SCAM THIS IS! So the county owns the property and Sieger
is giving them A HELL OF A DEAL which Jim points out is a LOSS for the
county because othewise they would have made 9,000 10,000 dollars more
a month on the same land under any other circumstances! Sieger using the
“jobs” excuse” , Yet they want to wreck residents quality of life to provide
“BETTER SCHOOLS FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES KIDS”! “There will be some
flight training with them, but the nice thing is not flight training with students,
it will be just people doing flight testing. They can fly with that within the
airport property, or they’ll LEAVE THE AIRPORT”! So WHAT FLiGHT
PATHS WILL BE USED FOR THEM TO COME AND GO FROM THE PROPERTY???
Are there going to be SEPARATE HELICOPTER PATHS SET UP SO THAT
THE HELICOPTERS DON’T COLLIDE WITH THE OVER 180,000 STUDENT
FLIGHT SCHOOL OPERTIONS that come out of the airport annually????
WHY WASN’T THIS ITEM PART OF THE WORKSHOP AHEAD OF TIME! Like
Carney reported, how do you expect the public to understand it when the commission
itself did not treat this item with MORE TRANSPARENCY! Carney wanted to understand
the NOISE FACTOR IN THE CONTEXT OF A PROPOSED AIRPORT ZONING ORDINANCE!
How is the FCBOCC going to contain the NOISE of turning it into a repair facility???
Is the hanger going to be a SHELL or are they going to build something to contain the
NOISE??? HOW IS THE COUNTY GOING TO MITIGATE ALL OF THE IMPACT FROM
THE VIBRATIONS FROM LOW FLYING HELICOPTERS DOING TEST RUNS THAT
CAN CAUSE PROPERTY DAMAGES AND WHO IS ON THE HOOK FOR ALL THOSE
DAMAGES??? AND CAN THAT BE WRITTEN INTO THE LEASE??? WHO ENFORCES IF
THE BUSINESS ISN’T COMPLYING WITH THE TERMS OF THE LEASE???WHO IS
MONITORING THE NOISE??? Hey ADAM MENGEL this should be enough to get that
150 PART B NOISE STUDY that you mentioned in the city meeting that would not be
necessary, why did you not mention this at that meeting??? And as for Siegers cautioning
the FCBOCC and the public “Because we have an airport, we have leasable land we can’t tell-
literally, because of grant assurances we’re really not allowed to tell businesses, aviation businesses,
that they can’t come to our airport. ANY BUSINESS NEEDS TO COMPLY WITH THE COUNTY
POLICY! Having an airport isn’t permission to skirt county policies. It has to be “compatible”,
perhaps this is why Mengel, Sieger and Gardner NEVER CALLED FOR A NOISE COMPATIBILITY
STUDY PROGRAM we are the only airport in Florida that does not have one! They sold us out
years ago along with the other past commissioners. And they continue to change the airport even
more to make it even more incompatible with our community, incompatible with county policies.
If this county is going to continue to prioritize the AIRPORT OVER ITS CITIZENS IT NEEDS TO
COMPENSATE ITS CITIZENS! IT NEEDS TO BUY THEIR PROPERTIES AND MOVE THEM!
At what point of where the county tells them to STOP! “JUST MOVE” COMES WITH A PRICE TAG!
We are the United States of America, for the people, and by the people, NOT the United States of airports
for the pilots, by the pilots!
-t says
Sieger stating that they can’t limit who rents from the airport. Let’s see what the grant assurances actually state…
“Airports should be compatible with surrounding communities, maintaining a balance
between the needs of aviation and the requirements of residents in neighboring areas.”
The Airport Compliance Manual
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Order_5190.6B_Compliance_Chg3.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawI0a0RleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHeFwNYR4fhNj2xubJqNe2I5lYW7xoTsnmZX1p9NkawCefrCnVPfMc-qudQ_aem_E4gPlwuEKfS15MFAoLjhrg
So no, those grants aren’t a blank check to violate local zoning ordinances, impose nuisances and/or ‘take’ property rights if easements do not exist. The public and public officials need to read all of the documents that they are pointing at. They are cherry picking what they are upholding as their responsibility. That in itself puts the airport out of compliance, and will ” jeopardize the airport’s grants in the future.”
BLINDSPOTTING says
“The people of Palm Coast should pay!”, As you put it Jim whoever you are!
Please come to the county/ city meetings and say this to our faces. The only
ones who should be paying for this in CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS are going to be
the county for gaslighting homeowners for decades who came here and bought
their property, paid taxes, spend real money in their city, kept up with exorbitant
increases in utitility and water rates, who shop here and buy here, which negates
your 30 person job increase, these are the ones who made and still make PC as you
lie and use 3 people to marginalized the TAKING of our PROPERTIES AND
DEHUMANIZE THEM! YOU ARE A PATHETIC EXCUSE OF A HUMAN BEING
AND A HORRIBLE PERSON. WHO ARE YOU TO CALL ANYONE STUPID as your
stupidity shows in your comments.
Jim says
Look forward to actually seeing the 1500 people supposably against airport operations. Been stating this for years.
Jim says
Retired, making nothing. You are spewing the normal rhetoric of stating someone against your views must be getting paid. Good luck.
Jim says
Almost as loud as cruising around PC on a Harley like your friend Darlene who complains about training flight noise!
Jane Gentile Youd says
Absolutely amazing that not one person thanked Commissioner Kim Carney for voting NO . Amazing that not one person thanked Darlene Shelley nor the undersigned for taking their time to appear in person to re move this Item for full public hearing which was put on the infamous vote everything at one time ‘Consent Agenda’
No wonder we lose; those few who care and show up are more than enough proof that the only thing that counts to t( most of ) he commissioners is the ‘head count’ of the those who care and take the time to come in person. ( It is a shame that Celia Pugliese , who is the biggest citizen advocate in Flagler County is unable to attend due to the very fragile condition of her husband).
We lose because we do not show up as voters plain and simple to demand that our health safety and welfare should come first. Pitiful inseed. Very ironic that I was convinced that Pam, who is a sharp lady would put the citizens first and thta Kim Carney didn’t care. I was wrong – very wrong…. Twice Kim voted in our favor Monday and not a peep of gratitude .
How can we expect those who care ,to keep getting blamed for the actions of other, to continue caring?
BLINDSPOTTING says
Jim: your own words just proves what a imposter you are!
No one ever said we were against airport operations, you
are a trouble maker and a distorter of facts and we don’t have
to prove anything to you. Your lying words mean nothing.
celia pugliese says
Jim ridiculous comparison and totally ignorant of a Harley to a Black Hawk over 140 decibels ear drum basters! https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA384583#:~:text=Peak%20sound%20pressure%20levels%20ranged%20from%20134%20dB%20to%20161%20dB
XYZ says
Celia: We take it that Jim, Sieger and their crew wouldn’t mind
Harley’s passing by their homes all hours of the day and night
after all it’s public roads , can’t deny access!
Jim says
read the article, they expect to double the size of the operation, those employees would be local. Not that hard to comprehend.
Jim says
Harleys ride by my house on daily basis and the training planes fly over it every day. However, I did not have my head buried in the sand and knew there was an airport in town when I moved here. Not a whiner like most of you on this site. Not asking for anyone to bail me out of the uninformed decision to buy by an airport. Grow up and live with your decisions.
XYZ says
Flagler Live: We have aerial shots of a Black Hawk Helicopter
doing training flights over our homes 3/4/25 not even 24 hours
following Pam Richardson, Andy Dance and Greg Hansen death
sentence votes to have Black Hawks hover over our communities.
This was all well planned by Sieger and his cabal. This is illegal,
there are NO EASEMENTS for this type of training in Palm Coast
and a formal complaint was made to the FAA for further investigation,
the person who was called in Jacksonville REFUSED to give a name
as to whom was doing this practicing as the Black Hawk Helicopter
did numerous training rounds, invading our city airspace. so
here are all Jim’s “LIKES” over 400 from Jacksonville folks, this
is all a scam! What they really want to do is training here!
Jim says
Hmm, speaking of hiding. Was Blindspotting your given name?
Jim says
A simple Google search of the company name will enlighten one about what they really do – refurbish helicopters. Not flight training. I hope you all don’t have a melt down March 22nd and 23rd when Warbirds Over Flagler comes back to town.
BLINDSPOTTING says
We are looking forward to seeing the student flight school planes
doing touch and goes at 200, 300 feet over your house as well but
then birth name Mr. Jim you would have to divulge your identity,
and I made a mistake it’s over 2, 357 names.By the way are you also going
to call the city council people liars too????
XYZ says
Jim: PUBLIX IS A BIGGER ECONOMIC ENGINE to PC
then your 30 job increase. What’s the matter lost for words
on -t comments cause those are really above your leaded fuel head.
We notice many comments you did not go near, too much to
comprehend maybe, all you do is come on and comment with
your simpleton remarks, how about answering Ray W., mister
know it all who knows nothing. LOL!
XYZ says
Jim: WOW In your return comment to Celia you mention
a womans name who you don’t even know which is
cowardly and totally inappropriate, you appear to
speak much nicer to the men than to women on here,
seems you don’t like women much, or even feel threatened
by them. Do you have the balls to ride a Harley? or are
you another student pilot like your friend Sieger. LOL
Jim says
Actually spent two months riding around the country on my motorcycle the summer before I started working, down the way coast, across the southern states and through California. Do you have the balls to do that? I do have a problem with anyone who blasts social media with airport claims that are false and unsupported, be they a woman or wannabe man.
Jim says
Actually Ray Was analogy was great, supported how a low initial rent turned into a huge benefit for Daytona. No need to reply, i gave it one of the 3 likes. As to it’s comments – heard these from many people on many different platforms, never proven or supported by the FAA. Seems like those with governance responsibility don’t agree.
XYZ says
Hey Jim: your problem is with women who have voices and
make themselves heard , you relate to them as wannabe men,
you make them invalid and dehumanize them very sad, we have
no problem if you wanted to be a wannabe woman, people are free
to be anything they wannabe! And I do have a motorcycle license
and ride but I don’t feel like a wannabe man and if I ever did
it wouldn’t be something even remotely close to the form of you.
Go have the day you deserve.
celia pugliese says
I should have said TY Kim Carney for your only brave vote NO! Also to Jane Gentile Youd, Darlene Shelley and Chantal Preuninger for your 3 minutes of exposure of the danger, pernicious health, noise nuisances and deterioration of these Palmcoasters homes values given the training field the KFIN airport has become and worst in the future with 140 decibels noise of Black Hawks testing after repairs more numerous to arrive.
Pogo says
@Jim, Ray W
I would add
https://www.google.com/search?q=daytona+campus+erau+a+and+p+program
Robert M says
The only question is will there be a self storage and a car wash built adjacent?