No sooner built than filled: The 42 T-hangar units in three buildings just built for $6.5 million and not yet occupied at Flagler Executive Airport are already all leased, with a waiting list for hangar space again stretching to close to 160 people. Airport Director Roy Sieger and county officials don’t mind: that kind of numbers means the airport business in good shape, Flagler County is in demand, and the spur to another T-hangar project speaks for itself.
“I’ll be talking to my FDOT people–they don’t want to hear it yet,” Sieger told a few dozen people assembled for a ribbon-cutting at one of the hangars late this morning, referring to the Florida Department of Transportation, which financed 90 percent of the project. “We have room to build three more rows just like this on the other side here,” he said, pointing to the east side of the airport grounds, “so we still have a lot ore room to grow, and once we fill this up, we can move back there, there’s plenty of room back there too,” at the south end of the grounds.
The 1,300-acre airport has 130 acres of developable property, 75 acres of that aviation-related. It already had 56 T-hangars, nine box hangars and 50 tie-down spaces outside of hangars.
Planes will move into the new hangars probably in January. The ribbon-cutting was anchored by County Commissioner Andy Dance, with Commissioners Dave Sullivan and Don O’Brien in attendance. “We want to thank the FAA and FDOT for their support,” Dance said. “As you can see with their support we’ve been able to grow and add needed facilities.”
Most of the planes that will fill the hangs–and that fill existing hangars–are owned by “average Joes” who like to fly, mostly for leisure, Seiger said. They are primarily single-engine aircraft, though some units can hold plans with wing spans of 45 feet, like the Cessna 310. Typically, planes in the hangars will have wing spans of 36 to 45 feet.
The hangars currently rent for from $400 to $675 a month. A cost increase, based on a rate study by Cooksey and Associates, is to be approved by the County Commission next Monday, averaging $50 a month. Once fully rented, they’ll bring $257,400 a year to the airport fund. As a Fixed Based Operation (or FBO), the airport has the right to operate the hangars and sell fuel, so those fuel sales from planes parked in the new hangars will generate an additional $40,000 to $50,000 a year, Sieger estimates. Last year’s adopted budget projected fuel sales–for both aviation and jet fuel–of $1.3 million. The projection this year is for sales of $1.4 million.
The airport is a so-called “enterprise fund,” which means that while it’s county-owned and run by the county, it operates separately from the general fund, as its own business, on a $3.2 million budget this year. T-hangar rent in 2022 was $217,000. This year, that’s expected to go up to $377,670, and go up further next year, when rent payments will stretch over the full year. The airport rents other spaces, too, generating additional revenue of $1 million.
S.E. Cline was the general contractor on the project, with MM Development building the metal hangars. Both are local businesses, as is Halifax Paving. The project included the rahabilitation of one of the airport’s taxiways. “When we build things like this, it helps. That’s what helps generate this local economy as well. These are all local businesses and all these local businesses are also benefiting from doing these properties in the airport,” Sieger said.
Next on the list of projects at the airport is the groundbreaking for the new terminal to be built there, possibly next summer, if funding is secured by then.
Roy Longo says
Great job Roy. You have brought this from a tiny rural airport to a thriving, self sustaining industry. Stand tall.
BLINDSPOTTING says
6.5 million dollars from the FAA and FDOT while our infrastructure is crap,
overcrowded poor roads, no sidewalks for school children to wait for school
bus, people getting killed on their bicycles, dangerous and hazardous
intersections, this airport brings in no money for PC, its all hype folks, the
money that the airport makes must stay inside the airport, Sieger has a staff
of maybe 6 people, the people who spend money in PC are the taxpayers who live
here, we are the ones who shop, eat, get our cars fixed, etc. Stop with the old
hype, the “average joe” who storage their planes there most don’t even live here,
so they get on their leaded fuel plane drop avagas gas all over our community
and leave, this is not JAX it’s a small county airport and should be kept that way.
Sieger didn’t even live here up until a couple of years ago and is now building
houses for himself – bloodmoney all while the taxpayers lose their health due to
added noise and air pollution. You should all be ashamed of your backslapping
selfs.
Peaches McGee says
Did you get approval from the nearby residents? You know how butt-hurt they are having moved in next to an airport.
Next, homeowners on the beach will complain of wave noise, skin lotion smell, and scantly clad humans!
BLINDSPOTTING says
Peaches Mcgee: The nearby resdents are not complaining about the airport
so stop with the lies, their complaints are with the flight schools
flying low and loud over their homes performing continuous low dangerous touch
and goes all hours of the day and into late evening hours , it appears that you are
either terribly misinformed or just spewing falsehoods to separate the truth or
perhaps you are just what we call a S**t kicking trouble maker who gets off on
people’s misery, in either scenario your comment is in “BAD FAITH”, and if you
are a Christian you are going to burn in hell.
Tim says
Blindspotting
Why would the county air port need to bring anything to PC?
BLINDSPOTTING says
Tim: If it was not for the FAA and FDOT funding and the county support
this airport would be operating at over a 900, 000 loss according to the end
of the year financial report, this airport is NOT the financial panacea this guy
Sieger claims that it is, so what you are implying is that the homeowners
should foot the bill for the danger, noise and health hazards it imposes upon
them, and stop misinforming the public that its a big economic engine because
it not that’s a lie, this airport is NOT by any means a traditional airport , in
reality it is a FLIGHT TRAINING AIRFIELD according to FAA definition,
when over 80 percent or more of the operations are by student pilots performing
continuous touch and goes over our community. Stop hiding the truth from
the people, Sieger gets his FAA and DOT funding from the number of those
touch and goes, of which he STILL does not answer to the county or the
city officials, HOW MANY OF THE 175.000 OPERATIONS IN THE AIRPORT
HOW MANY ARE FLIGHT SCHOOL TOUCH AND GOES??? Andy Dance
asked this question at a county meeting addressed to Sieger and Theresa
Pontieri also asked Sieger at a City meeting , STILL NO ANSWER FROM SIEGER.
And there are still homes that are going to be built in that area, the realtors better
report to the potential homebuyer that it’s a flight training school field.
Flatsflyer says
Each hanger cost over $154,000. What is the monthly rental and how much does the airport “make” or “loose” on each hanger? What is the real cost considering federal, state and local taxes that we all pay to provide storage for rich people’s play toys?
Monique says
The noises, pollution, low flying aircraft, that neighborhood will have no quiet time, unreal what your doing to my beautiful city. Put that money’s into street light,sidewalk Etc.
palmcoaster says
Exactly Monique and Blindspotting! While the pathetic Board of County Commissioners keep requesting FAA funds for the airport based in the amount of “yearly nuisance touch and goes” by world wide flight school students disrupting the lives of those residents adjacent to the airport and allover Palm Coast, the funds from the same Federal Department of Transportation that funds the FAA then exhaust dedicated money’s that should be for our roads already insufficient given growth to assign to the airport instead. Old Kings Road widening and turn lanes behind schedule 15 years so far and counting.
Then looks like if Pete Buttiegiev FDOT Secretary overseing the FAA approves those funds for regional airports expansions is taking it away from our roads as funds are not ilimited. Problem is that FCBOCC is directing administrators to request FAA funds for the airport along Sieger Director. By the way those houses adjacent to airport enduring those life disrupting touch and goes and pilot students harrasement 24-7 , were built way before mid 2000’s when the BOCC opened the can of worms idea to invite world wide flight schools to base on it. Is not the airport but the flight schools. By the way this airport makes no revenue for Palmcoasters oe county. In the 2022 end of year report shows almost a million in the red. So we have to endure the nuisance while the master minds enjoy their glory.
palmcoaster says
2024 con’t come any sooner as we see clearly here were we need change in the FCBOCC and Palm Coast Council.
Palmcoasters are being run over but the abuses of county (nuisance flight schools wasted taxes benefitting like CPT BBQ, etc) City rezoning, spot zoning, special exceptions to existing zoning to justify special interest greed with toxic planned growth. We did away with a resort destination (Harborside) that provided over 300 jobs so more density could be allocated from 5.5 units per acre to almots 23 units per acre and in the same non improved residential roads and decaying old utilities services that now they expect us to pay higher fees to sustain improvements to serve growth. Planned to locate over 150′ tall 5 G cell towers 150 feet from our babies and elderly in#7 Clubhopuse drive…that we are also battling. Folks get informed regarding candidates. I already have one that will help us residents first and is Ray Stevens Palm Coast district 3 to back up councilwomen Pontieri and Highter with his vote.
Skibum says
I believe you are correct regarding the specifics of the complaints that often come from those who move into residential communities near existing airports like ours. But I do want to point out that planes, whether they are just piloted by “ordinary Joe” private pilots or operated by flight schools giving student pilots flying lessons all must abide by FAA rules that restrict how low planes can fly over communities. I always tend to groan when I hear people who live near airports want to complain about planes flying low over their houses, because common sense tell us that airplanes are not helicopters and don’t take off or land vertically. They travel horizontally and need lots of space to land or take off safely. I don’t know of ANY homes in the immediate vicinity of our local airport that were built before the airport was there, so their problem with the amount of aircraft noise, in my opinion, is no more valid than someone who lives on a street where the volume of auto traffic has increased over the years and is now yelling at the city to do something about all of the noise they hear from inside their house. If they find they are not happy with where they currently live, they have a really awesome thing called moving out and finding a more suitable place they can call home. I’ve done it many times… they should try it and be more personally responsible for their own happiness rather than trying to rely on someone else to give it to them.
Denali says
While that may be the answer to some question, it did not answer the question that was asked;
“Why would the county air port need to bring anything to PC?”
BLINDSPOTTING says
Skibum: are you aware of the dangerous maneuvers of not ONE but continous
touch and goes of student pilots flying low over a community homes, schools,
hospital??? The last airport manager did not want that because he knew of the
danger it presents and pilots themselves are also aware of ths and many don’t approve.
These maneuvers should be done in open areas as well as the stalls, Not over
citizens homes, schools, businesses and a hospital. We have already had fatalities
and it is beyond us why county and city officials still allow this to occur, they will
be voted out. Also the health risk of leaded fuel being dropped all over our community
which has been linked to autism in children and a host of cardiac and health issues
in adults, the DOH better get on the ball and start testing our water and ground levels
for lead because our airport is famous as one of the TOP 5 in Florida among these
lead emissions. It’s not as if the planes fly out and leave or come in and stay, its
the constant hundreds of thousands of touch and goes done by flight schools that
is destroying our communities. And these flight schools are LLC’s carry the mininum
insurance liability in the event of a disaster. And there you go again with your “just move’
attitude, many people are not as fortunate as you to have the money or the means to
“just move” stop thinking of yourself for once and think for the “greater good” of
a community, you also told the taxpayers whose homes are being affected by flooding
because of poor city planning codes and regs to “just move”. The flight school planes
present a safety and health impact upon our communities. The communities are not
relying on others to give them their rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
BLINDSPOTTING says
Denali: Here is our question to you and Tim: How does this airport
serve our community and us common folks? Sure if one has the
money to storage their own private plane for fun or sport the
rich guys and their toys it serves them. This is NOT a traditional
airport, where are the passengers coming and going? Where is
cargo being flown in and out? Fact is that is is a FLIGHT TRAINING
SCHOOL airport and field and no one want s to address the elephant
in the room because this is how Sieger gets his funding and the
taxpayers have to endure the noise, safety and pollution impact, so
the taxpayer is actually paying the county, we can see from the
messes the county and the city has made and put us in that we
don’t expect anything from those losers past and present. Pontieri
instructed Sieger at a city meeting that he must inform the city council
from here on in about the funding he receives from the FAA and FDOT
so that the city can use some of that funding to better insulate homes
being built around the aiport and provide better infrastructure instead
of keeping the city out of the loop about this funding. This is a first
we never heard a county official ask this of him, they just all go along
to get along, once again their time is limited.
Using Common Sense says
I am sure there are many much more necessary and beneficial uses for FDOT dollars that will benefit, (not hurt) local residents. There are far more Palm Coast citizens negatively affected by more runways, hangars, and touch and goes than those that will benefit from further expansion. None of my friends or neighbors own a plane or utilize this airport, just saying. Perhaps those FDOT grants could go towards the 20 year old delayed Old King Road Expansion at TownCenter, before there is a major disaster in that area.
Irwin M. Fletcher says
Hey Skibum you are right. People bought homes near an airport that was used for general aviation. That’s not the issue, it is the constant pattern work (touch and goes) from the schools from 630 am to nearly midnight every day. General aviation traffic doesn’t bother these folks, but a departure every 30 seconds to a minute roaring over their neighborhoods from these fledgling students and negligent instructors does. To use your own analogy. It would be like buying a home on the intracoastal expecting normal boat traffic then finding out it became a test center for formula one racing boats roaring up and down the waterway in front of your house all day and night.
The flight schools could care less about our communities or the county and just abuse our airspace with no significant contribution to the tax base.
BLINDSPOTTING says
Palmcoaster , Monique, and using Common Sense: Palmcoaster is spot on! The FAA is
an administration that functions under FDOT and FDOT OVERSEES THE FAA. FDOT
PRIMARY MISSION IS TO INSURE THE SAFETY OF CIVIL AVIATION, INCLUDES
ALL NON MILITARY, PRIVATE AND COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES. FDOT is not doing
their job. The county and the county attorney allows these grants to pass through
without considering the much needed funding for our infrastructure needed in
Palm Coast and our county and allows Sieger to take all, it is Siegers airport, there is
only so much money to go around which is finally the reason why Pontieri asked Sieger
at a city meeting to inform them of the funding he receives, first time asked by a
city official. The county has failed us terribly, be sure to educate yourselves and ask
important questions to the candidates running in both city/county seats and if they
are quiet about issues do not elect them, they are quiet for reasons, we don’t need
more up there just to collect a paycheck and to go along to get along, we need warriors.
Ray Stevens is the person who will fight hard for us even if he doesn’t have the votes
from his peers , we don’t need newbies who do not know the dynamics or the history
of this county and city, or are in it to promote their businesses, he has lived here for
over 20 years , read his resume on the Board of Elections site, he is more than qualified.
Skibum says
Maybe you are right, and I might be somewhat biased due to my lifelong love of aviation. Afterall, I was extremely fortunate in that my high school in southern CA offered aviation as a class and I went through a complete FAA approved ground school and flew a number of times with our teacher who had his own plane. But that aside, every general aviation airport and commercial airport nationwide are free to use by aviation enthusiasts just like public libraries are open and available to use by anyone wishing to walk in the door and read a book. We are very fortunate to have one of the nation’s pre-eminent flight training schools located nearby in Daytona Beach, and student pilots absolutely need the experience of planning and making flights to area airports, doing touch-and-goes, etc. in order to become competent pilots. Many of them will go on to become commercial airline pilot and take people like you and me 30,000+ feet up in the air, and I want all pilots flying whatever type of aircraft to get the training and experience they need to be proficient at what they do because that is what makes flying a plane a hundred times safer than driving a car. I don’t think I’m crazy for saying that I would much prefer to live in the flight path of our local airport and have all of the student pilots fly overhead to and from the Flagler airport runways than to have all of the distracted, intoxicated, aggressive, loud music playing in their cars with loud popping mufflers running up and down the streets in my residential area. That’s a no-brainer, but maybe that’s just me.
BLINDSPOTTING says
Skibum: Your honest reply is appreciated and respected, let me ask for another
honest reply, do you live on a flight path? It’s easy to say that you would prefer
to live on a flight path if you are not experiencing student pilots performing
continuous dangerously low touch and goes over you and your families homes,
once again our communities are not saying that you can’t fly and we are not
complaining about our airport, we are complaining about the dangerous
nonstop continuous touch and goes, stalls flying low over our homes, and
speaking with many pilots they agree, these maneuvers should be done over
open areas, there are plenty of open areas that this can be done, why do this
over densely populated communities??? You cannot compare cars to unlicensed
student pilots performing dangerously low touch and goes, stalls continuously
throughout the day and night over citizens homes. We understand that these
flight schools are a billion dollar industry and they also have the money to
take these students and train them over open areas, there are plenty of
open areas that they can purchase for this training. I like riding horses but
that does not mean that I can trot or cantor one up and down my road
all day and night, there are specific places designed to do this. And once again
some of this FDOT funding should have been fanned out to fix our infrastructure,
this is very unfair to us taxpayers who have to endure poor infrastructure, along
with enduring the danger, noise and pollution that is brought about from these
flight schools, most people who live in PC do not own a hobby plane so those
hangers are not benefiting the masses. Keep them in Daytona Beach, their airport
is much bigger than our little donut hole one. I understand that you are upset
over the Bing’s Capt. BBQ lawsuit won over the hard liquor license win and
the expansion, just as we are upset over our airport becoming a flight training
school field. We have a right to be heard and respected just like you guys, most
of you seem to be pretty upset over the county’s poor decision making just
like us.
dave says
Good grief. I’ve lived in this area for 31 years and this airport and plane traffic has been here way before that (70 years). New hangers, well you don’t have to have a hanger to put a plane in. I’m, more worried about the crazy growth and building appts and new subdivisions that is causing our roadways to become a total nightmare than plane traffic over my home which is 3 plus miles back off of US 1 and the east west Flagler runway. There is more plane traffic from the Ormond and Daytona – Embry Riddle school than what occurs out of this little airport in Flagler Cty. Get yourself the Flightradar24 app and you can see all the flights above our homes on a daily basis and higher up its large jets descending into Daytona or on approach from the north into Sanford or Orlando that cross right over our homes at a higher altitude, safe planes flying out of the sky could occur anywhere. Planes fly over my home each day , do I like it, well I don’t live in a cheap home so we really don’t hear them. Do I like it, not really, but you make a choice when you buy a home, you can either buy it based on where its at, or you choose another location. I don’t like growth but to me, road traffic and new apartment complexes and subdivisions without any consideration by County Commissioners’ and City Council members takes the top spot. ex: older data but still . Palm Coast Parkway in Flagler County is at the center of so many wrecks — 1,440 collisions, roughly 528 injuries and more than $5.5 million in property damage between 2011 and 2015. In 2022, the FHP data Fatal Crashes: Flagler County (1.68% of Flagler crashes). Like I noted I’m more worried about traffic and getting smacked in front of the WAWA on 100 than plane noise, but we citizens still let these county and city representatives build complexes without honest future consideration for traffic.
FAA is here to stay says
I have an aquatance who regularly rents a plane to attend meetings once or twice a month in Savannah. He would have purchased his own plane long before now theres a 5 year waiting list in St Augustine, Flagler Palatka and Ormond also have long waits, Clearly T hangars are nessesary, and are dirt cheap compared to $300 for a 10×20′ storage unit at any of the dozen places springing up everywhere. Airports have a ton of space so what if they want to build much needed T hangars on the County land? I don’t see how noisy airplanes are Roy Siegers fault the FAA has full regulatory control over all things aviation, as an exercise in futility, why dont you write to the Orlando MISDO and complain that you wish for all aircraft to install exhaust mufflers for your auditory comfort. See how that goes for you. There is a huge demand for commercial pilots right now and the FAA requires the hours and the Touch and Gos of new pilots.
BLINDSPOTTING says
Dave: we do have the flight app and we are very well versed in what is
happening in our skies above our homes with flight school planes flying
300, 400, 500 feet over us, in fact we even get the overspills from
Daytona and Ormond who by the way Ormond has a cap so they get less,
why didn’t you mention Phoenix East, they are the worst offenders they have
a flight school right in our airport an several in Daytona if you look on the
flight app you will clearly see their planes coming in from Daytona, performing
continuous touch an goes dangerously low non stop, don’t undermine our
grievances we have snapshots and proof and some of these flight school planes
turn off their transponders so that they can’t be tracked which is illegal, you don’t
feel safe and we don’t feel safe when we have a airport expansion with NO RADAR
and no ATC tower after airport closing operations and unlicensed student pilots
flying low and loud over us up until the late evening hours. You should take your
traffic complaints to the county and city meetings, we do agree with you on that
which is the reason why the county should be directing some of the FDOT grants
that they are giving to the airport and dedicating the money to Palm Coast for
the improvement of our infrastructure. Once again our county can pride themselves
on having crap infrastructure but boy do we have nice shiny brand new hangers for
the rich boys playground and for what Sieger calls his super rich celebs to
store their lovely jets. Let that sink in! By the way Dave there were house built
close to the airport back in the 1930’s, that myth of the airport being here first needs
to be put to rest, it’s become boring.
Skibum says
BLINDSPOTTING, you asked if I live in the flight path of our airport, and the answer is no, my home is in the F Section not far from Matanzas High School. But we have general aviation aircraft flying directly over our house every single day, and while sitting out on our lanai by the pool I have often heard and watched firsthand the stall training maneuvers being performed up in the air so student pilots can learn the emergency procedures in order to safely recover from a stall. By the way, these stall maneuvers are ALWAYS done way, way up in the air, never at low altitudes, because for obvious reasons when a pilot shuts off the engine to simulate an emergency that might develop into a stall, you have to have sufficient altitude because without the engine thrust the plane will naturally start its glide descent. A small aircraft can glide without the engine being on for quite a distance, and even land engine out. Any pilot, even an experienced instructor, would be insane to perform a stall training maneuver at low altitude, so I’m not sure why you stated multiple times that these student pilots are doing “dangerous” low altitude stall maneuvers when that is the very last thing a pilot will do. And touch-and-goes are no more dangerous than a routine landing or take-off because that is exactly what those are, a routine landing followed immediately by another take-off. The more they do that, the more proficient a pilot becomes. Just like most things, practice makes perfect. I would also like to point out that while I no longer live in the flight path of an airport, I grew up living close to, and in the flight path of the Hollywood-Burbank Airport where both jets and general aviation aircraft would fly fairly low overhead many times every day during landings or take-offs. This was for a period of maybe 10 years until our family moved to another community in the L.A. area. The house in Burbank was close enough to the airport that I often walked there after school or on weekends and would spend hours in the airport terminal or outside along the fence watching the jets come and go… yes, I know I was a little weird LOL.
BLINDSPOTTING says
FAA is here to stay: Greetings, we do appreciate your suggestion about the mufflers
which we did suggest to Sieger but that fell upon deaf ears we were told that it was
too expensive to do as well as suggestions from his disbanded once great Airport
Advisory Committee which has been disbanded by Sieger and the county and never
put back together again as instructed by Jerry Cameron former county administrator,
but that’s a whole other issue. What we are reflecting upon in this article is that some of
the 6.5 million dollar funding that went to the airport could have been used to improve
our deteriorating and dangerous infrastructure, there is only so much money to go around
and as citizens we believe that our road safety should take priority in lieu of all of the over
development and poor planning that has been going on with the devastating effects of that
upon our community. You had also mentioned that we have a pilot shortage. Are you aware
that the biggest pilot union (ALPA) is saying that there is NO PILOT SHORTAGE in the U.S.
ALPA has publicly alleged this with FAA DATA! ALPA in fact is pushing back against efforts
to claim that there is a pilot shortage and then undo key safety regulations.
airlineweekly.skift.com/2022/06/pilots-union
We have been in touch several times with the Orlando FAA district office thank you
and yes we are aware of the importance of touch and goes for new pilots, once again
train them over open fields not over the homes of our loved ones, the flight school
industry is a billion dollar industry and can certainly afford to buy land and spaces
to train their customers.
palmcoaster says
Because they use the city airspace..and also the taxes we pay to the county in our advalorem to the rate of city 24% and county 44%…as the airport in the year end report sowed in the red for over $800,000.
BLINDSPOTTING says
Hi Skibum: no you are not weird, you are a aviation enthusiast
and I do respect that, everyone has their passions in life. I am
happy that we have come to agree nicely to disagree, if only
more from the aviation industry were like you and not have this
animosity, I do believe that the more grievances that are spoken
about in a intelligent manner the better outcomes we will all get
that can benefit all of us. I lived very close to an airport up north
in the flight path of incoming commercial jets and it was never
the same noise level as these small piston engine flight school planes
hammering over us day and night, and they do perform stalls
directly over our homes, they are so low performing these stalls
that we can hear when the engine shuts off and the hesitation
from the plane over us, it is quite scary, almost sounds like the
plane is going to fall on us, we call each other up to make sure the
plane didn’t crash into the wooded areas, now that you are saying that
the stalls should not be performed at low altitudes I even wonder
if the head school pilots of the schools or airport manager is aware
of what is going on, but they are definitely stalls in fact a recent stall
backfired and we heard a pop from the plane, a pilot told me it could
have been due to the student either grabbing or releasing the clutch
too soon but what do I know, we only know what we hear and see.
It is always nice to have a pilot friend to speak to , once again thanks
for your input.
dave says
Might as well add all the airports within 100 miles, making fly overs. Rich boys, with boats, more than 2 cars, planes, swimming pools, more than 3 bedroom houses, I guess. On by the way, I never mentioned ” By the way Dave there were house built close to the airport back in the 1930’s”, PLUS I never said the airport was here first. That’s you of course and correct there were homes here before then, our home is own the property that used to be here, back in the late 30’s. Yep its a pure shit show on the county and city residents, but we aren’t not the bills payer’s for those hobbyist with planes as it appears they will be paying rent monthly. If this thing a done deal, if so , where was this outrage before it occurred, was it a secret to the residents. .
Using Common Sense says
Dave- You will care when a plane crashes into your neighborhood. Is there even an Air Traffic Control Tower? Touch and Goes one after another and mid air engine stalls? Students “practicing” over thousands of homes? At night??? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
MITCH says
All this could have been avoided. Over the years I read articles of other cities having the same problems with their airports. Have you ever heard the saying “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. When a city fails to learn from failures of other cities, then failure will come to that city, and this proves that definition to be true. Well, that is what has happened here. The problems other cities had with airports are not hidden or secret or I would have not read about them. These cities did the same: zoned, permitted, voted, developed and realtors sold homes near an airport. So, for many years before Palm Coast became a city these mistakes were being made by other cities – Why the INSANITY of following in failures footsteps? Just how many homes have been built near the airport since 2000?
FAA not going AWAY says
OK so you are Cognizant that the FAA controls aviation and not so much Roy Sieger or local residential neighborhood groups. Good this is a start. You can bang your head against a wall all you want but the wall stands Sir. Mufflers on cars impact performance to a degree, but most automobiles remain in a similar elevation, In the past one would need to adjust their own Carbuerator if heading into the mountains, I date myself, but I had to do this when I drove a VW wesfalia from 1968 into Bryce canyon Utah, Like the only time but the park was at 8000 feet elevation. Now planes do this all the time, and mufflers would complicate the air fuel mixture at the various altitudes aircraft fly in, which is why thats never going to happen for you. These dynamics were absolute in 1903 for the wright flyer, they are in place now. Every Airports are fair game any airplane can land at any airport. Same as you can pull your car into any gas station, it does not matter to me if your house is adjacent to the gas station, Im going to pull in, and get gas. Maybe Ill pull in change my mind and get back on the highway. Whatever it is a free country. To alter an aircraft requires a STC a type certificate from the FAA these are REALLY hard to get and also VERY expensive. Nobody is even allowed to quiet their engines legally unless the FAA say that there is an option available to that particular airframe owner. So Again, Roy is not the problem, It is the law of the land Airplanes with licensed pilots can take off and land where ever and whenever. Good luck trying to reverse 100 years of the status quo, Your time may be better spent packing up and moving elsewhere.
BLINDSPOTTING says
FAA not going AWAY: Hey dude, you made the suggestion about the mufflers
RIGHT?, All you airport trolls love to bait. And stop separating people with
your walls, , FAUX PILOT SHORTAGE MYTH, your BIG ECONOMIC
ENGINE MYTH. You are a henchman for Sieger and he is the problem as well
as the county who can direct him, the county invited the flight schools in and hired
Sieger who hires an agency at very high cost to apply for grants to have 175,000
flight schools operations hammer dangerously low and loud over our communities
keeping the city out of the loop about these grants which can in turn be used to
better insulate homes against the noise but Seger takes all, why ask for FDOT
money when he gets the bulk from the FAA, the FDOT money can go to improve
our deteriorating infrastructure. So the airport benefits all around while our
infrastructure is hazardous is completely irresponsible, careless and thoughtless.
Once again the flight school industry is a billion dollar industry and can certainly
afford to purchase land and have their customers fly over open areas, not our homes
posing danger to our lives and dropping their leaded fuel into our water and environment
putting our safety and health as risk. What these flight schools are doing is taking
advantage of the”law of the land” and the privilege to fly and guess what buddy
your FREEDOM TO FLY ENDS THE MOMENT WHEN YOU STEAL PEOPLE’S
PROPERTY RIGHTS, and they can no longer go outside their homes to enjoy
their backyard, pool, hold a conversation with their neighbors, have a decent barbecue
with their family and friends, or have their children play outside due to flight school
planes flying dangerously low and loud continuously making entire communities
unsafe. And there spews that “just move” rhetoric, are you going to pay for the expenses
of people “just moving” due to not only the taking of our rights and properties, but
also for flooding of their homes due to poor codes and regs, hazardous intersections
close to their homes due to poor planning and overdevelopment of our infrastructure.
palmcoaster says
Irwin M. Fletcher s and Mitch you are both so straight to the point! Is not “if” another air training aircraft crashing with deadly consequences for the innocent Palm Coast residents in the ground is just “when” and will, given the increased amount of flight schools at the airport plus the ERU and others increase practice touch and goes at our airport coming from Daytona and elsewhere…as peobably are limited at their based airport like Daytona etc. This issue is not going to dissapear unless we vote for change in the FCBOCC.
BLINDSPOTTING says
palmcoaster: the flight schools should have NEVER been invited in here
to begin with, that’s why they were so sneaky about it they knew of these
effects upon our communities, these were callous
decisions made by past commissioners who voted on this, like all of a host
of other callous decisions made by both county/city officials
disregarding their constituents, same as sleeping with the enemy, they were
supporting the stakeholders of the airport they should all be ashamed of
themselves and the current ones who refuse to help remedy some of these
issues need to be voted out.
BLINDSPOTTING says
In response to recent public comments by the Flight Trainung Field Manager
at Flagler County Airport concerning safety issues I would like to
make the folloiwng comments. But before I get into the heart of the matter allow me
provide some background information and facts. When I first bought my home
in Palm Coast in 2006 at that time Flagler County Airport was a small GA
airport. With a total number of 6,000 or so operations annually. That number
has increased to approximately 170.000 operations a year. of which 95 percent
are touch and goes performed by unlicensed flight school students. Most
everyone involved in aviation will tell you that touch and go operations are
dangerous maneuvers even when conducted by experienced pilots. With that
said there is not regular passenger service provided nor is any cargo
transported in or out of the airport. Therefore, this is not a airport by
traditional definition. The FAA refers to this type of operation as a Flight
Training Facility. This massive increase in operations and the inviting in of
every flight school in the tri-county area to come here to practice, free of charge
was done without conducting an official Environmental Impact Study, a
official Noise Impact Study, or any public hearings on the matter. First and
foremost the issue here is safety. The fuel these single engine piston planes
use is leaded. leaded fuel was banned for motor vehicle use in the United States
in 1975 because of medical concerns. Flying over densely populated areas at
an altitude of 300 feet is a safety issue. In the event of an engine failure, there
is no glide time to pick a relatively safe landing spot. Ther are alternatives that
Sieger refuses to consider. The students who fly the single engine planes in the
daylight are flying following VFR regulations. Flying in a restricted visibility
and or after dark, defined as one half hour after sunset to one half-hour before
sunrise, is a safety violation according to FAA regulations. This violation takes
place regularly. Photographic evidence can be provided. Flying with transponders
turned off. to avoid detection by certain softwear such as Flight Aware is also
a safety risk and is illegal. Flying at night, after 8PM without the aid of Flight
Controllers and NO RADAR is another safety concern. Emitting engine sound over
65 Decibels every pass over usually 15 seconds apart, has ben clinically proven
to cause health problems to the inviduals exposed. Now to address the legal concerns.
Avigation Easements, NONE have been issued or approved, and the RIGHTS OF
PROPERTY OWNERS have been well established in our communities, as one
person is not the only one in the direction of the flight path there are hundreds
of homes involved. See Causby V United States, City of jacksonville V Shumman,
and Griggs V Alleghany County. There are some 10 or 15 additional cases going
across the country addressing this issue. All establishing the property rights
owners extend 500 feet above their property and the aforementioned decisions
establish this right. In addition, if an airplane flies over ones property at less than
500 feet and over 65 decibels the property owner HAS to be compensated. This
also is one of the reasons the aiport does not want to or intend to conduct
a Noise Study because everyone involved is concerned of what will come out
of that Noise Study.