At the beginning of a video shown at Tuesday evening’s forum on affordable housing, Sandra Shank–who chairs the county’s affordable housing advisory committee–herself introduces the video to dispel a few myths. “Many people don’t understand what affordable housing really is,” she says. “When they hear ‘affordable housing,’ most people think that we’re referring to projects or neighborhoods where their socio-economic status is so low that it’s high crime, but it’s not that. Affordable housing is workforce housing also. It is housing for people who live at or below the area median income.”
It’s housing for lower middle class, or working class individuals and families.
The median household income in Flagler County is $62,000, according to the state’s Housing Finance Corporation. People qualify for various affordable housing programs based on their income relative to that median income. For example, a family of four making half the median income, or even 80 percent of the median income, would qualify for certain programs. That means teachers, firefighters, cops, workers in innumerable service jobs, all of them gainfully employed, all of them working one or more jobs, would qualify for some form of housing assistance.
What they would qualify for can be complicated, even arcane, but why they qualify is not. Affordable housing is out of reach for many. The median price for a single-family home last month in Flagler County was $255,000, or $15,000 more than a year ago, according to the Flagler County Association of Realtors’ latest figures. Do the math: a 30-year mortgage after $15,000 down would still cost close to $1,600 a month, when insurance and taxes are included. Annualized, that’s almost half the salary of a starting teacher in the county.
“Your housing allowance shouldn’t be anymore than 30 percent of your budget,” Shank continues in the video. So we’re hoping to help people understand that everyone deserves to have a decent place to live, a safe community to live in, and affordable housing is critical to the economic stability and vitality of a community.”
Rentals aren’t necessarily more accessible. As Ralston Reodica, the State Housing Initiative Partnership program coordinator at the county, says in the same video, the fair market rent for a two-bedroom apartment is about $1,100, requiring a $45,000 salary a year to afford a two-bedroom place. That’s $21.60 an hour. Yet there are only 11 affordable homes per 100 people who need one.
That’s the crisis. Tuesday evening’s forum’s goal, hosted by the Flagler County Association of Realtors in Bunnell, was to change the mindset about affordable housing and broaden support for it in all local communities. “We have some stories that we hope will compel you and help you to understand that again everyone is in need of and everyone is deserving of affordable housing,” she says.
Audio: Toby Tobin’s Real Estate Matters:
On Affordable Housing (Nov. 2)
The forum drew some 60 people, including many elected officials–two from the county commission, two from the school board, three from the Flagler Beach City Commission and two from the Bunnell City Commission, not including top executives. Palm Coast was represented by Jose Papa, a senior planner.
“Everyone up here is concerned about affordable housing, housing stability,” Shank told the assembly as she introduced a panel of eight people, some of them experts in the field, one of them a former homeless person for seven years in Flagler, one of them a former addict who’d lost custody of her children before becoming the program manager of a homeless prevention organization.
“We have over half the students that are enrolled in our teen schools on free and reduced lunch,” Pamela Jackson-Smith, who coordinates the programs for homeless children and families in transitions at the school district, said. “That is evidence that we have high poverty and that we do need affordable housing.” The numbers got bleaker: 448 of the district’s 13,000-some students are in “shared housing,” which is still considered a form of homelessness: families and children don’t have a home of their own. Twenty-three children were in substandard housing, 37 in motels, 21 in shelters, for a total of over 500 students who fit the definition of homelessness.
Ashon Nesbitt, a research analyst with the Florida Housing Coalition, described himself as “the face of affordable housing.” He had two master’s degrees and was still living in subsidized housing when he graduated: he’d not have made it otherwise as he was getting started in his career.
Nesbitt addressed interactions between developers and local governments–how policies in planning and zoning can work toward facilitating affordable housing: “If someone comes in and wants to develop 100 acres of farmland, they’re likely going to have to get a rezoning to do that,” he said, “ and just by signing a piece of paper you have created value in that piece of property, just by bringing it from farmland to be able to do however many numbers of units. So as a community, by giving that value essentially, by a stroke of the pen, what are you going to give back? We call it value-capture. By giving you this value to do this rezoning, we as a community would like to get some portion back to benefit the entire community.” That’s the theory behind “inclusionary housing,” which he said is supported by state law. Increasing densities or providing some discounts on impact fees would enable developers to “come out on top,” a necessity if any community is to attract developers willing to build along those standards.
But “inclusionary housing” is one of those terms that triggers defensive reactions from existing neighborhoods because of the myths surrounding many forms of affordable housing. On the other hand, Palm Coast’s Town Center is now rapidly sprouting two major apartment developments enabled through regulations tailored for the area, with hopes of alleviating the apartment–and affordable apartment–shortage in the city.
Besides combating the not-in-my-backyard myths of affordable housing, Shank is hoping the forum is a springboard to a countywide affordable housing group (though one already exists under the banner of Flagler Cares, and the county has its own housing advisory committee). The new group would be called Flagler Homes for All Coalition. The main focus will be to advocate for affordable housing, she says.
“If we can create a workforce here, and housing that’s affordable for the workforce, that’s going to hopefully draw in economic development,” she said.
Hearing fresh policy ideas was one of the reasons County Commission Chairman Donald O’Brien was at the forum. “I think we have a very unfortunate stigma in Flagler County and Palm Coast particularly with folks not understanding” affordable housing, he said. “We have such a stigma with multi-family housing and the thought that it affects, lowers values in communities, and that’s really not the case. We have a lot of work to do to change that thinking, and we have an absolute responsibility to provide affordable housing for our working class citizens. Tons of them are our employees in city government, county government, the sheriff’s department, teachers. We need to step up to the plate to try to help. There’s no immediate fix. It’s a combination of things that support groups can do, nonprofits can do, but government can help from a policy stand-point and that’s my interest tonight.”
Jane Gentile-Youd says
‘Affordable Housing’ programs are very attractive to developers because if they follow certain rules they are just about exempt from income taxes on profits and also get big breaks on local property taxes. ‘Affordable’ is a cover up name in my unqualified opinion but from my experience in seeing once middle class every day developers become muti multi multi millionaires laughing all the way to the bank. The renter’s incomes must not ‘exceed’ a certain amount… but when you realize how the county at large loses big bucks needed to support municipal services for the renters you realize that such named housing is a boom for the builders at the expense of the taxpayers. Just my unqualified unprofessional opinion and from what the little bird I know tells me. A former friend , who until about 20 years ago lived in an 1,100 square foot apartment, of mine now owns a $20 million ( assessed home) and his entire career as been building ‘affordable housing’ and getting government grants. Don’t be fooled the little bird tells me…. Just passing the message.
John says
Talk is pretty and cheap. Subsidized housing invariably brings problems with it. Temporary help is good but not when it goes from generation to generation.
Nenemalo says
“But “inclusionary housing” is one of those terms that triggers defensive reactions from existing neighborhoods because of the myths surrounding many forms of affordable housing.”
Initially, affordable housing does work and an appropriate mix of tenants of all walks of life will have that appearance that affordable housing works. As time passes by, those low income earners begin their search elsewhere. Why??? Because they can’t take it living right next door to a unit full of thugs, drug dealers and substance abusers . Let’s not forget, they too qualify and by law, can not be discriminated against so what happens when the hard working class individual leaves and up next that qualifies is another like the reason the other left? That reputation will spread and the people who were the most desired to live there will avoid it at all cost. As time continues, and it will, the most undesirables will fill up the complex and it will need it’s own sheriffs department and even then, they won’t be able to control the crime. Case in point, a complex in Brooklyn, NY, (Borinquen Plaza) started the very same way and sure, it took about five years. In the years that followed, you could barely find a working individual. Priorities reset to accommodate the “most needy”. When this place was finished, it was beautiful, stellar, enviable and everyone wanted to move there, not anymore. In their community center, shootouts erupted frequently. Drug dealers on every floor of every building. I should know, I nearly got shot in a party there and I wasn’t the intended target. I knew many that ended up living there, you won’t want them next to you. Dare to go to work and they’ll break in to your unit.
Let’s not go too far. Look at the dump area in Bunnell. Who actually believes that it started out as a dump? I’m sure it was beautiful and enviable just like the place I mentioned in Brooklyn. Look at it now. Who in their right mind would move to that roach and rat infestation? You know, the ones that will drive you out of your unit. Enough said.
Facts says
Flagler Commissioners along with our State representatives should abide by property zoning laws. By allowing the continued conversions of single family housing into vacation rentals is just going to increase the problem for people looking for affordable housing. The first step in correcting this problem is for our state representatives to introduce a bill that will repeal 2011 Senate bill 883 that caused this problem in the first place.
Palm Coast Citizen says
Robert Beyrer of the local Housing Authority said that there are only 339 housing vouchers (Section-8) in all of Flagler County and it’s been that way, at the minimum, since 2012.
This conversation wasn’t just about vouchers, though. It was about economic growth and housing affordability for students, graduates, veterans, families, people who hit hard times, couples whose kids moved out, and retirees, and to that end, it was eye-opening learning that so few vouchers actually exist here despite common perceptions. And the vouchers don’t tend to increase here, so our fears that we will be overridden by these voucher holders are a bit unfounded.
Having grown up here, it’s difficult for me to get on the same page with other “newer” residents who say, “If you can’t afford to live here, then move.” I mean, there are college graduates and veterans returning to their home towns–people with skills and potential. Why wouldn’t we want them to come back from serving our country or come back from earning valuable educations and have the opportunity to grow and develop and become big contributors to our local economy? I’m sure their families would want them to have the opportunity to be entry level here. That’s how we develop healthy community. We are graduating so many bright minds here in Flagler County. We should be proud of them and welcome them and hope they can find reasonable housing in and around the community they know instead of pushing them out of the county with, “If you can’t afford to live here, then leave.” We need them!
And doesn’t it benefit us to have local leaders who grew up here or at least got their starts here? At least a handful of them?
Steve says
Totally uninformed on the legalities of this topic but from what I read and where the powers that be decided to start puttung this “AFFORDABLE” Housing I dont like the idea. Witt the UNF complex now stalled and others lost I do not think it bodes well for limiting the continuation of the practice by those in charge.. I dont plan on being here to see how it turns out Good Luck.
Nenemalo says
“Why wouldn’t we want them to come back from serving our country or come back from earning valuable educations and have the opportunity to grow and develop and become big contributors to our local economy?”
Because there are no jobs here and will subsequently have to live off the system…funded by the taxpayers. The video presentation that was used as an attempt to “change perceptions” is totally one sided and come no where near the truth and reality of what affordable housing transforms to. Name one affordable housing complex in the entire country that didn’t start as a well established housing system that didn’t turn into a deplorable dump. There aren’t any and if there are it’s because not enough time has passed where the scum tenants drive out the model tenants. Give it time and everything I have mentioned will come to fruition. They’ll destroy the place and then blame the landlord so they can “hold rent” as is very common. I know this to be a fact as I not only grew up around that crap, I too was a landlord and still am. They damage things, intentionally cause leaks, break windows, remove smoke detectors, etc. What’s worst is that they then report it to housing department and tell them they reported these things to me numerous times. I’m almost done with being a landlord and will be relieved when that day comes. To hell with affordable housing and rent control BS.
Mom disgusted says
I have my two daughters, two grandkids and a son-in- law living with me. Why? Because they cannot afford housing in this area. They make crap for pay. This County is a disgrace! Our jobs suck and so does our housing. My kids friends also live with their parents. I’m talking about 25 year olds and older. Some are college graduates and some are not. All will be staying with us a long time unless something changes.
John Kent says
You are correct Jane. It’s all cover name for making big $$$ at taxpayers’ expense.
We get stuck with paying taxes on that affordable housing while Builders get their profits all the same and housing companies get theirs. All that’s happened their get qualified for Affordable Housing Exemption and County and City make up the difference by making us pay it. The rents are going down only by the amount of taxes. Of course those developers are laughing at our stupidity.
Every one of the tenants has 2-3 children that need to attend school and the bus to transport them. Who pays for it? Well, they don’t so it’s you and me.
Let’s call it “unaffordable housing “ because frankly soon none of us would be able to afford paying for it.
And yes, this place was a nice retirement living so why do we need huge school system and why do we need all this growth? It’s not us, it’s our government that wants big money, more residents more taxes more important they become.
Look at the number of those committees! OMG just unbelievable, all having those crazy names and pretending to do something! Guess what? They all get $$ from taxpayers. So no, it’s not affordable!
Dennis says
If you build affordable housing, low income, section 8 housing, you just as well add a sheriffs substation at the complex. Your going to need it.
Florida Voter says
I don’t like the term “affordable housing.” If confuses subsidized housing with housing that average working families can afford. Yes, Flagler has a serious lack of housing that regular working individuals or families can cover with the recommended “30%” of their income. I don’t see how that automatically translates into needing government subsidized apartments. Can developers build complexes where studio units rent for $500/mo (i.e. a single person with a close to minimum wage job) and 2 bedroom units’ rent is low enough to be affordable for a single parent teacher or firefighter? Yes. Will they? Probably not.
Mike Cocchiola says
We absolutely need “affordable” housing. Our senior citizens who lose a spouse’s income or cannot otherwise maintain their homes and have to downsize have few options. Many are forced to move “back north”, leaving years-long friendships behind. Our public workforce – teachers, firemen, medics, sheriff’s deputies – cannot afford $255,000 homes. Our young people either fresh out of high school or college cannot afford to live in their hometown and we lose their energy and talent.
This will take a community effort, a public-private partnership and courageous leadership to build affordable housing in Flagler County. And no, affordable housing does not lead to crime. Poverty does sometimes as does community neglect of our disadvantaged citizens. So let’s stop the false narrative and get started building affordable housing.
James g Boyd jr. says
If ya can’t afford to live here don’t. Look what your affordable housing did to Daytona! It will classify your town as a blue collar dump, bringing home values down! Palm coast is beautiful, leave it that way.
Corinne Hermle says
Thank you to the Flagler County Association of Realtors for hosting this forum on Tuesday night, and for having a wonderful group of panelists. This is a conversation that needs to happen.
As I read the comments to this story, I am reminded that sometimes the loudest voices don’t always speak for the people in a community, and the loudest voices aren’t always listening to the struggles of their community.
The loudest voices always wish to point out all the failures, but are curiously silent on any and all successes.
Listening is a hard skill. It’s is hard to listen to other points of view, to hear data that challenges your view of life.
Perhaps the loudest voices could try listening, and hopefully build up their community in doing so.
Jackie says
I am a senior who has lost her spouse. I had to sell my home but its been hell finding a rental that i can afford easily. Im paying more than i can afford so that means no medication or no food shopping. Its bern very hard. We truly need AFFORDABLE housing.
Jackie says
I am a senior who has lost her spouse. I had to sell my home but its been hell finding a rental that i can afford easily. Im paying more than i can afford so that means no medication or no food shopping. Its bern very hard. We truly need AFFORDABLE housing.
Born and Raised Here says
I don’t beleive Flagler County was developed for a low and middle class market. With all the nice amenities and beautiful beachside it is more for us upper middle and upper class. Their are plenty of other communities in Florida that will take middle and lower classes, such as Daytona Beach.
MemoryofMike says
Pierre,
I am wondering if the prejudicial comments are simply coming from the Boomer crowd who have extracted and benefitted the most in the American era. Fact are facts and those born into the predominantly White Northeast or local family with a ton of land knew little difficulty and enjoyed a single household income from a powerful union or government job that had you home by 5:30 pm. While only in their late 50’s or early 60’s Boomers retired to Palm Coast where they donate little, out consume their property tax contribution and complain much. In global terms, Boomers won history’s lottery yet Flagler’s Boomers are hell bent on denying anyone and everyone from opportunity, livelihood and place to live.
On another note: Are not the Plantation Bay residents subsidized via their sewer plant bailout by the commercial and apartment developments 10 miles to the North? just saying……..
Unknown says
First of all, for everyone who moved here for the beautiful quiet retirement town, most of you worked your whole lives, struggled but made a living in other states and gained a pension. You become inconsiderate to the generation up under you who are now in the positions that you once were. Everyone has to start from the bottom and work their way up, its life!!! So for those of you on here saying “if you cant afford to live here don’t” how about if you don’t like what the city is trying to do to progress , DONT!!! with time comes change and that goes for anywhere you live. If you guys think Palm Coast is going to remain the same boring town with nothing to do your sadly mistaken. In my opinion as a resident, why wouldn’t you want to see it grow, give these kids something to do maybe it wouldn’t be so much dam crime and bullshit going on that you sidity residents complain about. Only ones complaining are the ones on your high horse with your big retirement money and fancy house that you worked hard for just as we are trying to work hard for and have one day in the future. GET A GRIP!!! WE NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN FLAGLER COUNTY. AFFORDABLE HOUSING DOES NOT MEAN MORE CRIME, DRUGS OR ANY OF THAT!! Yall are just ignorant and don’t want to see others prosper. We work hard just like anyone else should to make a living.
Palm Coast Citizen says
Thank you!! I think this conversation was about HOUSING AFFORDABILITY here in Flagler County. Not low income housing. Everyone is talking about subsidized housing, but this is about:
1. Impact fees.
2. Density zoning
3. Cost to build
4. Multi-family zoning.
And yes, the conversation deserves a consideration of very low income families–Single parents making $12/hr working in administrative jobs or fixed income seniors, or people on disability. They need a place to stay too.
But we are also talking about middle class (or what should be middle class) income earners and their ability to build equity–to create a stable housing for themselves.
We’re also talking about retirees who simply want to downsize.
or couples who still work but who don’t have children or whose children left home.
People panic and think everyone is attempting to build some sort of project housing behind their condo or between their concrete stucco homes.
Palm Coast Citizen says
So is this true for people who grew up here? They should not live in their home towns. We’re not just talking about people coming in. We’re talking about people who started out here. They can’t afford to stay.
snapperhead says
Change the Land Development Code so a 1200 sq ft home w/ attached 2 car garage isn’t the minimum single family home size. Builders could build 1000+/- sq ft homes with a one car garage or no garage well within a mortgage affordable for many of those who can’t afford the prices of homes now. People starting out or downsizing don’t need 3 bedroom 2 bath 2 car garage homes. Of course some of the old farts who think their shit don’t stink won’t like it…an even better reason to do it. They’ll all be dead in 10-15 years anyway.
mary fusco says
Sorry Memory but you are rude. I am a “boomer”. I worked from 16 until I was 65, Between my husband and I we worked 100 years. We had 4 children and scrimped and saved for a downpayment on a house and sacrificed for 25 years to pay it off. We had no vacations, did not eat out and did not have thousand dollar phones. When we moved to palm coast, we paid cash for our house. We put our kids through college. I worked 2 jobs and hubby worked hundreds of hours of overtime. Please tell me how or when we won a lottery.
Lil bird says
According to Shank, “IF we can create a workforce here… that’s going to hopefully draw in economic development.” Create a workforce of WHAT skills to HOPEFULLY draw in WHAT development? Are you hoping for more box retail and chain stores? Sorry but economics show you got the cart before the horse. Instead, you START with strategic, planned development as development brings jobs, Jobs bring working people & families, and that BRINGS money to the local economy vs draining the local tax base while big (often out of state) affordable housing investors get rich quick.
bob g says
Using euphemisms like affordable housing, working class housing, inclusionary housing, etc. is a bit of a con job. They really are subsidized low income housing projects and actually the same as Section 8 housing. The only difference being the developers receive large loan and tax subsidies instead of the tenant.
David says
Bought a house in L Section for $235,000. After 2 years I now have duplex’s being built on each side. Was not told affordable housing (duplex) would be built next to our house. Take a look around Palm Coast and look at the duplex’s in your neighborhood. They are a mess. Renters/land lords do not take care of the property because they have no skin in the game. This will happen when affordable housing is built in Palm Coast you can count on it.
Mary Fusco says
Unknown, you are funny. Everyone has to start from the bottom. When I first got married we lived in NY. We couldn’t afford a house there so we moved to the suburbs. Hubby had to travel 70 miles each way, every day for 25 years. We lived in a country setting and there wasn’t much to do. Amazingly, we had NO crime because parents were parenting. Unfortunately the town built affordable apartments and then it started. When my kids turned 15 or 16, they had jobs. They were saving for cars and other things they wanted. Back in the day, kids were not handed whatever they wished on a silver platter because of parents parenting out of guilt. They went to school, and worked after school and did the same in college. All are now successful. They certainly weren’t looking to fight anyone and everyone. They had no time for that BS. I am not on a high horse. I am retired but certainly not on a big retirement income. I could only wish. LOL. I don’t have a fancy house. I paid cash for my FL home after I sold my NY home that we paid a mortgage on for 25 years and made a small profit. We don’t need anymore crime in PC. Citizens need to be able to leave their cars in the driveway overnight without worrying about the windows being smashed out by some punk looking for something to steal. Last I heard, the old folks were not skulking around at night robbing cars. Just saying.
Land of no turn signals says says
If this city has such low paying jobs and no affordable housing then why live here?Move on and be happy.
Mikey Eyes says
@David How were the lots zoned on each side of your house? Were they not zoned duplex when you purchased your home?
snapperhead says
And what was this magical town that had no crime? P.S. Your generation as well as every other has had it’s share of criminals and degenerates so stop making it seem like every family and community back in your day was like a Happy Days/Leave it to Beaver fairy tale. And your life story about how perfect your family and children are is like a broken record…we get it… your shit don’t stink.
“Last I heard, the old folks were not skulking around at night robbing cars.”
http://inmatesearch.flaglersheriff.com/NewWorld.InmateInquiry/FL0180000/Inmate/Detail/-456263
Just saying.
Dennis says
I disagree. It seems like all the city is after is more tax dollars to spend. Traffic is already quite congested. Schools will not support the influx of single parents with thee kids. We cane to Palm Coast to retire. We do not desire to live in crime ridden Daytona, Orlando or Jax. City politics will destroy a way of life that brought many thousands of retired adults here.
Dennis says
Agreed. We are already looking at other low crime, retirement areas out of state.
MemoryofMike says
@noturnsignals (we can agree on that). FYI the quality employers see the limited housing options combined with a self centered citizenry and move out (SeaRay) and on to the far healthier communities of St. Augustine and Melbourne. Communities that have thousands of apartments, thriving cultural arts centers with increasing tax revenues to pay for top academic programs and to re-build antiquated streets developed in 70’s & 80’s. It’s why your property taxes will increase while your services decrease. Simple math.
Enjoy your flooded streets, 20 minute EMS response times and ER’s flooded with 90 yr olds with no nursing or medical technicians.
DREW DIXON says
So Jane, why don’t you run for office and change things. Oh wait, you did and LOST.
Jane Gentile-Youd says
I lost by 10,000 votes on a budget of $10,000 to the current commissioner who had a budget of $160,000. You lost, I didn’t in my opinion.
Born and Rasied Here says
Born and Raised says: Mom disgusted, I have lived here my whole life , raised 2 wonderful college educated kids, who went through the Flagler school system, and attended great colleges. I told them that when they got there degrees to move to where there was a market for there education. They did, my son lives in Atlanta, and my daughter lives abroad. Your children have no business living with you. Flagler County does not have a labor force for young people. it is a upper middle class retirement community.
Derrick Redder says
Should have sent them to trade school.
Born and Rasied Here says
Born and Raised Here says: Derrick, Reddick, Flagler County has no labor force, only low income service industry, such as restaurants, retail, and lawn cutters. A trade not going to provide you a reasonable 6 figure income in Flagler County.
Save Palm Coast says
Palm Coast is A retirement community. – only jobs here are medical jobs. HomeS should start in the 400k-500k for all retirement communities. People working here mostly live outside the city. Daytona / Sat. Augustine. Etc. Keep it this way. Lower density homes have no space here in “Palm Coast. Nobody wants them.
william says
Nenemalo: You are correct. There are no private company jobs in Flagler County because private industry cannot compete with the very high salaries, pensions, benefits of three cities, county, schools and other bureaucratic et al within the City of Palm Coast and Flagler County.