It was among the most inelegant moments in a generally inelegant election season. Flagler County Commission incumbent George Hanns, who’s hoping to win his sixth election, was answering questions with his challenger, Herb Whitaker, at a candidate forum hosted by the Hammock Conservation Coalition earlier this month.
Whitaker has been bitterly critical of Hanns, calling him a part-time commissioner, criticizing him for not owning his own home and for never completing the Florida Association of Counties’ certification courses for commissioners. Hanns has openly ridiculed Whitaker for furthering his education, saying—in open forums—that no one would hire him, being past 60 (Whitaker is 69, Hanns is 66), calling Whitaker’s attacks orchestrated attempts to bait him by the local Ronald Reagan Republican Assemblies, and, at that Oct. 2 forum, going one insulting step further.
Hanns called Whitaker “creepy.”
The audience was stunned. Hanns was booed. The microphone was taken away from him. Hanns never denied it. “What I actually said was, when you hire a person, you look at their resume and their background,” Hanns said Tuesday morning, “and all I said was that people who have worked with him in real estate, particularly women, have said he’s creepy. And what that meant, I don’t know.” What women? He wouldn’t say. Who had reported the allegation? He wouldn’t say.
The statement at the Hammock forum was stunning enough that Milissa Holland—like Hanns, a Democrat, and a fellow county commissioner—who had her own segment in the forum, felt obliged to apologize to Whitaker, as did Jim Manfre (the Democratic candidate for sheriff).
Monday evening, Hanns apologized to the commission, though he did not initiate the apology. Dennis McDonald, a Republican who’d lost a bid for the county commission in the August primary (and a member of the Ronald Reagan assemblies), had been at the Hammock forum. He addressed the county commission at the end of its meeting. “I saw the senior member of this commission make a number of different comments that I thought was absolutely outrageous,” McDonald said, referring to Hanns. “I was not alone in that feeling. The commissioner was roundly booed, and I don’t think I’ve ever been in a public forum where that’s happened.”
McDonald continued: “He made a comment that was blatantly age-discriminatory where he commented to the person he’s running against, that it doesn’t matter, you’re over 60 years old, nobody is going to hire you anyhow. I just think this is an outrage, and even though we’ve got an election going on, we can certainly be civil about this. This commission spends a lot of time at the very beginning of every one of its meetings honoring people from this community, both individually and collectively, for bettering themselves, which betters our community, and I’m just saying that I would like to see Mr. Hanns apologize to you commissioners for that, and to the members of this community also.”
Whitaker has made his late-blooming education part of his campaign. He only recently got his associate’s degree from Daytona State Community College, then went on to earn a bachelor’s of science from Embry Riddle Aeronautic University. He’s now enrolled in a master’s degree there.
Hanns blamed the political climate at large and what he perceived as personal attacks by Whitaker on his family, and his companion—Sophie Zabas, with whom he’s been living for 20 years at a house on Belleaire Drive in Palm Coast, and whose property taxes he says he’s been paying for those 20 years. Hanns says he still owns property on the west coast.
“I’ve certainly never experienced an individual take an exception and criticizing my family, and myself for different things, and I regret that I was baited, and I bit, and I criticized the individual running against me,” Hanns said, never mentioning Whitaker by name. Whitaker had been in the audience earlier in the meeting, and had spoken to the commission on a matter unrelated to the election. “It seems like my better half Sophie is not able to handle the stress of campaigning as well as I do. She’s under doctor’s care. You all know she had quadruple bypass a few years ago. She’s stressed out, she’s in there doing the echograms and the treadmill and all this other stuff, and quite frankly when you care about somebody and they’re struggling and having health issues over it, you tend to carry on a bit differently, so all I was doing was defending my family and I regret that. And I will say that I apologize because it’s not my nature in the past 20 years to fall into that trap. But this individual has made so many false comments and statements against me and my family that I just overreacted, and I apologize.”
Hanns acknowledged the bad impression he’d made at the forum. “It is true I heard that from a lot of personal friends of mine and I deeply regret that,” he said. “However I got caught up in emotions with the signs of the times, and quite frankly I’m not used to not defending my family and their honor. So again, sorry.”
Whitaker this morning disputed Hanns’ claim that he’d ever attacked his family. “I don’t know where he comes up with me insulting his family,” Whitaker said. “I have met her and she was always a gracious lady.”
Hanns says that while he’s never heard direct personal attacks from Whitaker himself, he’s heard them relayed to him—again, by unnamed sources—with Whitaker referring to Zabas as “that woman,” which Hanns finds insulting.
After another forum Saturday, Hanns approached Whitaker’s wife and had a pleasant conversation with her. But the commissioner says he would not sit down at the same table with Whitaker outside of a forum setting, and this morning went so far as to call Whitaker worse than the Soviets (Hanns was in army intelligence during the cold war, in Germany). “I’ve never seen them act like this guy does” Hanns said—another wild exaggeration, of course: the Soviets led a reign of terror for seven decades. Whitaker is a Realtor with an acid tongue.
Whitaker claims he’s never made the race personal. That’s not quite true. This morning during a phone interview, when he was speaking highly of Zabas, he said: “I don’t know how she ended up with him.” Whitaker immediately caught himself and asked that the comment not be repeated, and later apologized for it. “That was an egregious statement I shouldn’t have made, but I did.” And even though he’d said that “family is off the table,” he brought Hanns’ children into the equation. Hanns, Whitaker said, had criticized him for getting a college education, saying the army was the best education. “I guess his children didn’t get the memo,” Whitaker said, noting that Hanns’ children are college educated.
Lulz Daily says
Sometimes you just gotta call em like you see em. Too funny. Politics in this county are redic.
happening now says
Time for “Georgie Boy” to GO!!!!
tulip says
I don’t understand why only ONE person has run against Hanns last time and this time. There should’ve been at least a couple of competitors running both times against Hanns. Of course, this time had there been 2 Republicans running against Hanns, the RR would’ve closed the race anyway. It would’ve been really interesting to see 2 Rep. and at least one Dem running against him.
With regards to our local elections , the way they were and are being handled leaves Flagler County not much to be proud of.
Maryjoe says
I think I’ll just skip this one…maybe write some one in…but neither of these guys are getting my vote.
Herb Whitaker says
Tulip,
Just a slight correction, in 2008 there were 2 Republicans. Myself and Bill Venne who I defeated in the primary.
Herb Whitaker says
Please explain the “acid tongue” comment you made! What is the basis for this?
BW says
Tulip,
If another Republican had run, it would have simply been a regular primary vote in which only registered Republicans could have voted for their candidate anyway. because George Hanns is a Democrat and was already on the ballot. You are misunderstanding the primary election rules.
What the real issue is the local Democrat Party who did not have a contender to George Hanns in the primary. In fact, they did a very poor job of having any candidates this election. Two seats had no Democrat contenders (Clerk of Courts and a County Commission seat). Nor did they have anyone challenge any of the incumbents (George Hanns or Kimberle Weeks).
I agree with you that there is a lot to be desired and we need good candidates.
Will says
So, Maryjoe, does not voting sway it toward the incumbent (George) ?
Not sure. Just asking.
FlaglerLive says
Herb, the story, or rather your comments in the story, speaks for themselves.
Andrea says
In response to the above article, I am a female and have known Herb Whittaker as both a Realtor and a friend or over 5 years. In that time I have never seen Herb demonstrate any behavior I would describe as “creepy”.
I find the comments from Mr. Hanns insulting, discrimanatory and uncalled for.
Mr. Whittaker’s age should not be a factor, but his education advancement should be viewd as a positive, not a negative.
I also think Mr. Hann’s statment was at best, a poor attempt at an apology.
tulip says
@ Herb Whitaker, Sorry, I forgot about Mr. Venne running.
glad fly says
hanns is the creepy one.
Anonymous says
Well we know for sure they are humans controlled by emotions and react when under emotional strain. Not always pretty, but that’s what makes us human. Can’t say the same for our MK-Ultra man in command. Now that’s very unnerving. Even creepy…shivers
Magnolia says
I’ve always appreciated the comments here made by some of our well known Republican officials under their own names. It takes guts to do that.
Herb Whitaker is one of those people. I’m going to be voting for you, Mr. Whitaker.
Robert Lewis says
I commend Mr. Whittaker for seeking higher education. For anyone at anywhere to go back to college is in itself commendable.
I have no issue with Mr.Whittaker. But sir,politics is a bastard sport. You Sir, have made claims against Mr.Hanns and he has fired back. It’s part of the game. I really do not care if he calls you creepy or if you call him midget. It is all immaterial. The voters will base their decision on who has the best plan for Flagler County. I see no reason to engage this behavior.
As for Mr.McDonald. I will not even begin to address his lack of morals or ethics.
Mr. Hanns and Mr. Whittaker, run your race based on your merits. What makes you stand out. Sell yourself and do not knock the other guy. We have 21 days left, lets end this on a high note.
Good luck!
How great I am says
I have attended forum after forum and have yet to hear Herb Whitaker say what qualifies him to be a county commissioner and he has yet to say what his platform is. All I hear is vote for me because I went back to school after 50 years and got a degree. If Herb can’t win it on his own merits with out attacking his opponent he doent qualify to be a county commissioner. Herb Whitaker you need to now go to charm school.
Why hasn’t the FCAR endorsed one of their own Mr Whitaker ?? This speaks volumes.
Janet O says
Thank you for your coverage of part of the Hammock forum.
Will you be reflecting on the sheriff contest interchange, as well, for the benefit of the community’s awareness?
tulip says
@ ROBERT LEWIS Very well said!
Lulz Daily says
One one was a racehorse
Two two was one too
One one won one race
Two two won one too
jennifer says
The Hanns guy is the creepy one in my opinion too. Sounds like he tries to throw everything at the wall just to see what will stick, not a good campaign platform. The only thing that I did read that does make sense ( Hanns said) is Whittaker does not own a home here…this does concern me. Owning a home is very important to me because I want him to protect my home like he would his own….well he doesn’t own one. I read about living with a woman for 20 years..yeah yeah yeah. I’m afraid if he can’t commit to a relationship (by getting married) then how well will he really commit to the people? Just sayin my two cents.
Maryjoe says
@ Will.. perhaps. So I will write someone in then which will do nothing either, lol. I just don’t want either one of them getting MY vote. If they can’t behave why in god’s name would I want them making decisions for me? It’s obvious one is going to be “in”, I’m just not helping them do it.
Herb Whitaker says
Let me answer your question.
I have stated that I took accounting courses in college, literally 6 including Managerial and Financial accounting to allow me to analyze the budget thoroughly.
I am in the leadership graduate program to allow me to lead the county commission through effective policies.
I have more than 40 years experience in management in union and non union environment companies employing up to 500 employees in the facilities I was a manager at. That is why I feel I qualify.
As to my platform, I will be your full time commissioner, not a part time one as my opponent stated in the June 18 BOCC meeting he is. I am running for the county commission seat because I want to serve the citizens of the county, not because I have nothing else to do. I will vote on any item that comes before the commission on the merits of the issue, not because of the re-electability of the issue and to avoid dispute to vote with the majority more than 98% of the time in the past 3 years, as advised by the clerk of the court public records request. I met 709 citizens who signed petitions for me to enter this race, I did not pay the $2883. fee. This gave me and the citizens an opportunity to discuss and ask/answer questions of their interest. I will hold town hall meetings where I will discuss the issues of the county, when did you last attend one of my opponents.
You obviously have bought into the attack claims made by my opponent to Pierre, but please re-read the article where Pierre says he could not name one name of any person to corroborate his stories and that he had never heard any, he had been told by his friends.
You make your own decisions, but I will skip charm school. The FCAR endorsed my opponent, but I have the individual realtors votes, so I have been told and that is what matters. The FCAR endorsement committee was made up of only 6 realtors, there are more than 800 in Flagler County, so I would ask what volume does that speak?
tulip says
@Jennifer—I am by no means defending Hanns, but a particular statement you made about non-married couples living together applies to a lot of people. Just because a couple is living together doesn’t mean they arent the type to commit to anything. Things happen in people’s private lives, we know nothing about and choose to live together and not marry.
In fact a couple that has been living together for 20+ years are MORE committed than if they were married, because if things don’t work out a non-married couple can just split up with no legal repercussions a divorce would have so obviously these people take their relationship very seriously. So the fact that someone is not married to the person they live with, especially long term, doesn’t make them a bad or irresponsible person.
I am not voting for Hanns, but not because of his marital status or the fact that his Lady Companion owns the house they live in, but because he seems to vote the way the majority does and in particular in builders and developer’s favor whether the project is a good idea or not. I honestly don’t know how he has been in office all these years, while good ones are voted out. All this is JMO
Herb Whitaker says
Jennifer,
You have the property owner backwards. I own a house in Palm Coast, 58 Wynnfield Drive, you can search the property appraisers site. Hanns has not owned a house since 1996 and that is what I said in the forum. I agree with you it concerns me too because I want my commissioner to have “skin in the game” so that when he decides that I will pay more taxes that he will too, but he will not because he does not own a house.
All of this is verifiable in the Flaglerclerk.com website (Clerk of the Court) just search Hanns. There is one shown, that was his brother who passed away on xmas day 2011.
Richard Howard says
George Hanns record and accomplishments speak volumes as it pertains to his qualifications. Flager County is lucky to have him.
Anonymous says
Oh my bad and I am so sorry! I so do apoligize. You have my vote Sir! My bad!!! EVERYONE VOTE FOR HERB!!!!! I certainly hope you win!!!