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Andy Dance’s Two Masters: Voting for a Tax at the Chamber, Against One at the School Board

| July 28, 2010

andy dance flagler county school board

'We have other options, more so than economic development, so you weigh all the options,' Andy Dance says. (© FlaglerLive)

Andy Dance is a member of the Flagler Chamber of Commerce board of directors. He’s also a member of the Flagler County School Board.

Earlier this year, when the chamber board voted to push a November referendum for a new tax that fund large commercial-building construction in the county, Dance was part of the unanimous vote approving the initiative. The County Commission in June agreed to place the referendum.

Two months ago, and again last week, when the school board discussed putting a levy of its own on the November ballot, Dance was opposed–both times, even though, he said Tuesday, “my first and foremost concern is here, with my elected board”–meaning the school board. He said he researched the issue and saw no conflict in voting for the tax the chamber was pushing as opposed to voting against the one on his elected board. “If it’s a perceived conflict, I think it’s unfortunate,” he said. “I wouldn’t want there to be a perceived conflict. I think they’re both important issues.”

Former school board member Jim Guines raised the matter of a conflict in a comment on this site last week. “As far as I can see,” Guines wrote, referring to Dance, “one has his nose so far up the chambers’ agenda that he is caught with a serious conflict of interest forcing him to not support the school system’s need to support the tax for the board.”

Dance said he may be rethinking his position. “I’m looking at it all over again to make sure it gets its proper investigation,” he said. “If there’s new information that comes forward, I’m going to look at all the information that I can. I still think that both of them on there–this looks bad in the eyes of the general property owner.”

Both proposals are asking voters to approve an equal amount in taxes: 25 cents per $1,000 in taxable value. For a $150,000 homesteaded house, the tax the chamber board favored–branded the “economic development” tax and officially sponsored by Enterprise Flagler, the private-public economic development partnership–would cost $25 annually, at today’s valuations. The school levy would cost $31, because only half the homestead exemption applies to school taxes. The “economic development” tax is a new tax entirely. The school tax isn’t: taxpayers are already paying for it on their current bills. The school board had the authority to levy it on its own, and has done so year after year. But state law changed this year, forcing school boards to put the tax to referendum if boards wanted to keep generating the same revenue. Most school boards around the state are doing so as other sources of revenue, including local tax revenue, have fallen.

When the school board first discussed the tax referendum two months ago, then-Superintendent Bill Delbrugge recommended against placing it on the November ballot. His was worried that the electorate would feel bombarded by too many tax referendums, which would jeopardize two more such referendums Delbrugge considers more crucial (and far more lucrative) come 2010: a half-penny sales tax surcharge by the school board, and another half-penny surcharge by the county and by Palm Coast, which is up for renewal that year. The extra penny in sales tax has been in effect since 2003. It pays for infrastructure and technology in schools, and infrastructure in the city and the county.

Dance said the school board has other options if its referendum fails, which wouldn’t be the case with the economic development tax. If that one fails, “it’s probably dead,” Dance said. If the school tax fails, the board can again go before voters in two years with the same proposal, presumably in addition to the half-penny sales tax increase.

The school board hasn’t formally voted to place the levy on the November ballot. But in a discussion last week, three board members–Evie Shellenberger, Colleen Conklin and Sue Dickinson, with varying degrees of enthusiasm–said they’ll favor going ahead with the referendum, and formalize that decision on Aug. 4. Board member Trevor Tucker said he was undecided pending his discussion with supporters of the economic development tax. Tucker is running for re-election. Asked about the school levy during a candidates’ forum Tuesday evening, Tucker first said he’d support it then back-pedaled, saying he shouldn’t announce his vote with other board members present (although the meeting was public and publicized).

Should both referendums finally end up on the ballot, Dance said he “couldn’t be a spokesman for both. I’ll be a spokesperson for the school district.”

Enterprise Flagler hired Sandra Mullen to be the lead spokeswoman for the economic development tax. Chamber members are generally uncomfortable with Enterprise Flagler Executive Director Greg Rawls carrying the issue publicly because of his poorer speaking skills.

The school board hasn’t yet devised a strategy for its own levy. In previous cases (as in the 2002 half-penny tax), school board members were responsible for campaigning in favor of the issue. Boards are also allowed by law to spend small amounts of money advertising their own referendums.

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28 Responses for “Andy Dance’s Two Masters: Voting for a Tax at the Chamber, Against One at the School Board”

  1. BW says:

    First of all, Andy Dance is a huge asset to our schools. I don’t see any conflict in evaluating two separate proposals differently even though they are seeking the same resolution system. Jim Guines is out of line with his comments and owes Andy a public apology in my opinion. If Jim wants to be that blunt honest why not just use the word he obviously wanted to use and not try to be creative by substituting ‘agenda’ in his statement.

    Although I am all about supporting the schools and appreciate the need for sound economic growth in our area, I am opposed to this type of taxing on the side for property owners as a solution. As we are seeing now, owners would end up with multiple ‘side taxes’. If they want to raise property taxes, put that to a vote and do that if the people vote for it. In terms of the Chamber’s proposal, I say it’s a big ‘No’. The Chamber has members. If they can’t meet their agendas due to financial issues, raise the rates for their members. In addition, Enterprise Flagler needs to show some real results else stop being funded with tax payer dollars. In terms of the schools, I’ve yet to hear any sound plan in terms of the financial issues. So here we are simply asking tax payers to throw in more money. Where would that go? What is the plan now and in the future to effective use the financial resources available now?

  2. Jim Guines says:

    BW whoever you are, I do not think you know me. If I did not feel strongly about this unfortunate timing of these two issues I woluld not bother, but I consider Andy a friend. I have walked in his shoes and I still hold firm that his first support is to the school system. I stand by my comments, you can’t serve two masters.

  3. Truth Traveler says:

    Andy Dance is by far the best representative the students and people of this county have on the FCSB, He is a man of integrity and Dr. Guines is out of line. is also showing it’s agenda with the slant recent articles. It is clear what we have here is a biased and partisan online news website and the author is mixing his political affiliation opinions in a nonpartisan race with the last two or three reports of his opinion of how the meetings have gone. Hmmm….

    I was at this meeting. I would recommend everyone reading here attend a forum yourself and draw your own conclusions.

  4. BW says:

    Dr. Guines, I’m not sure that it matters if I ‘know you’ or not. It is obvious that you feel strongly about the issues. For one, I think your public comment was attacking and unprofessional. That’s my opinion.

    Second, the school board proposal for this issue came after the Chamber’s proposal. Strategically, I would have voted against it as a school board member as well. The reason being is that the chamber’s proposal is not being received well by the public. In fact it is also putting Enterprise Flagler in a poor future position as it puts them under the microscope and demands more public accountability from them. So lumping in a school proposal for the same thing has little chance of success. As Andy also stated, the schools have other options which are most likely to be better received and stand more chance of success. What are your opinions on the half-penny sales tax option for schools, Dr. Guines? In terms of the chamber, Andy explains it beautifully as they do not have any other options. I don’t see that as ‘serving two masters’. I see it as objective thought. I also see the business community and schools having opportunities to be working as partners which they do not effectively do right now. For Andy to sit on both is a unique opportunity and perspective for him to have. So my other question would be how do you propose the schools and the local business community to become better partners to improve opportunities in education and better prepare our students for the future as well as build a better solid foundation for the future workforce?

  5. Jerry M says:

    Mr. Guines seems to get a lot of exposure on this site. I guess since he is listed on the corporate structure for, he’s entitled. Also, if you did a thorough investigation you would know that Mr. Kelly did not get the position mentioned. No Bull. No Fluff. No Smudges. Think again.

  6. Jim Guines says:

    BW, thanks for your continued concerns. I hope that you know that I served in Andy’s seat for more than ten years. So please accept the fact that I know what I am talking about. I also was elected to office three times and won each time on my work on the board. In all these years, we never had an issue like this The chamber and the schools always worked closely together. At no time did we have a school board member to serve on the BOARD of the chamberr and the SCHOOL BOARD. To have a conflict of interest is not a criminal act, you will not be fined, you are not a bad person, A pulic serving person just should not do it. I consider Andy a young person who may grow from constructive advice. I may be wrong, but I think he is not as thin skined as I think you are making him out to be.

  7. Truth Traveler says:

    It needs to be said again. Our beloved Mr. Bill Delbrugge was AGAINST the tax going on this year’s ballot and had recommended to the board the school system not ask for tax money this year.

    Of course the school’s could use money with the financial difficulties we face; however, Mr. Delbrugge said it was better to wait for next year and ask from the half-cent sales tax. Funny how he was one hour removed from no longer being superintendent and the new superintendent ask the board to consider the tax. I guess they no longer feel Mr. Delbrugge’s leadership was all it was cracked up to be? I think if they go for the tax NOW they will actually be shooting their foot for what they will really need the tax payers to approve in the near future.

    Mr Guines, if you felt you need to teacher Mr. Dance something or give him constructive advice AND you are his friend, I would think you would have taken him to lunch or met him somewhere for a chat.

  8. Jim Guines says:

    I tried too, as I have done before, but he was out of town. I am sorry I did not wait.

  9. Jim Guines says:

    I am so sorry you got Bill in this, because Janet Valentine is supertendent now and she has every right to review this decision. Do you realize that this is a two million $$ decision. You would not want her to try and get this for the schools? Your understanding ot this situation is sad.

  10. Peachie says:

    Truth Traveler, I understand you are a 6th grade teacher at Bunnell Elementary School.

    Perhaps this tax can be collected so you can learn the proper use for apostrophes and make sure your students know the difference between the use of possession versus plural when using that form of punctuation.

  11. BottomLine says:

    Always vote DOWN any tax! We already pay enough and they will never stop asking for more.

  12. BW says:

    Mr. Guines,

    I am a homeowner and manager who has run multi-million locations with hundreds of employees for over 15 years. So I know what I am talking about as well and do not just ‘trust’ when someone is asking tax papyers to pay additional amounts of money. Especially those that are ok publicly criticizing someone else in such an unprofessional manner.

    Here’s what is sad, you want homeowners to kick in more money for our schools through a ridiculous method. All the while the economic climate is one of high unemployment. All this without any true explanantion of how the money will be spent. So in all of your wisdom, I should trust the one whose solution is throw money at an issue and that should correct it. If that’s the approach, I guarantee you it might be $2 million now and next it will be wanting $2M more. In addition, as Andy stated the other option is the half-penny sales tax which you have yet to comment on. If you are simply looking at one option with no regard for actual owners and residents that would get you a certain amount of money, who is really ‘serving other masters’?

    By the way, you are welcome for homeowners paying property taxes that allowed you to sit in that seat for 10 years. That is a service position, and not one that a community is simply done a favor by a name filling a seat. It’s becoming more and more apparent why our schools have financial issues. Thank goodness that Mr. Dance took is on our school board and it’s obvious that you have truly lost touch with your community.

  13. Will says:

    BW – just for the record – I don’t know the details, but I understand Dr. Guines served on the school board without accepting the pay – or by giving it to charity.

    In my humble opinion, both Dr. Guines and Mr. Dance are very much in touch with the community and the quandry presented will work itself out with intelligence and honesty practiced by both gentlemen.

  14. Colleen Conklin says:

    I’d like to offer some insight. First, the .25 is NOT a new tax. It is a continuation of current funding. The legislature, who sets the millage removed the .25 and allowed districts to place it on the ballot to fund the 2011-12 school year. Again, it is NOT a new tax. Second, Bill Delbrugge’s opinion on this is getting totally misrepresented. Originally, he was in favor of the .25 and we even discussed the possibility of .50. However, the major concern was putting it on the ballot at the same time as the economic impact tax. In addition, thinking ahead we were worried that in 2012 we’d have to have two issues on the ballot. The first to renew the 1/2 penny sales tax which has funded a great deal of the technology in the district. Bill thought both would have to go on the 2012; this doesn’t seem to be the case. It was one of the reasons we discussed the .50 instead of the .25. The .50 is up for a vote every 4 years. There was a great deal of discussion that took place at a number of workshops. The decision has yet to be made. We also talked about not going for it right now to see what the outcome of the class size amendment would be. As you can see there are a number of items to consider. The .25 is only in effect for two years.

    Here is the reality of our decision making – since the legislature has shifted this tax – again not a new tax but a current tax – if we don’t go for it we know right off the bat we need to cut over 2 million from next year’s budget. Please keep in mind that we’ve cut our budget each year for the last several years and are at the bone. The next to go could be programming that directly impacts students. We have worked really hard at trying to hold the classroom harmless. In addition to a 2 million dollar cut, the stimulus money comes to an end for the 11-12 budget. We know the loss of that funding comes to over 5 million. So again, thinking ahead, we know we are already 7-8 million dollars in the hole if we don’t go for the .25. This is not taking into consideration any cuts from the state which we’ve been hit with for the last several years in a row. We have no idea what the economic impact of the oil spill will be and God forbid we get a hurricane. We’ve been well aware of the impact this may have and have been planning for this in a multitude of ways. Again, no decision on this has been made but as a Board member looking out for the best interest of the district I feel I have no choice but to support and advocate for the .25 to be placed on the ballot.
    On a side note, Andy is a good board member and I have no doubt he will do what he feels is the best thing for the district and the citizens of Flagler County. I appreciate what he brings to the table and his intentions are good.

  15. Jim Guines says:

    Thanks, Colleen you are so valuable in situations like this because you confront the truth. You are good in helping the community understand the issues I appreciate your service to the community. I am sorry that this became so negative as I was only trying to help the system’. I think Andy knows me well enough that I did not try to put him down. He is my board member and I wish him well, but I will not bite my tongue when I think he’s wrong.

  16. H Peter Stolz says:

    New tax or a proposed continuation of an existing levy, the fact is that people today have to look at every penny and sometimes have to make difficult fiscal choices in this economy. The proposals will affect what we pay in taxes! How nice of you to be so eloquent Colleen. Now repeat after me: a tax is a tax is a tax. It doesn’t matter if its a renewal or new, it’s a tax that taxpayers will have to pay for.

  17. BW says:

    Ms. Conklin, thank you for your well versed explanation. I do appreciate the dire situation the schools face financially and understand that the taxing model increases taxes by a small amount. The issue with this type of system is that it opens the door to this type of practice for multiple programs as we see already with two groups proposing the referendum. If both passed and the library had passed previously, we would have 3 additional fees placed on homeowners. Where does that stop? In essence, it appears to be a way of ‘masking’ taxes for property owners.

    In terms of priority, yes, I would see the schools as more of a priority for this type of system than the Chamber and Enterprise Flagler. In fact, how much more would the County have for schools if it simply ended it’s contract with Enterprise Flagler? I have yet to hear that proposal. Which brings about the other issue of where is the money truly needed? I fully understand that the schools are running at ‘bare bones’. But one can say that and still have organizations running inefficiently and with waste since ‘bare bones’ can be perceptive. For example, how much is each Board Member paid? Is that a level that is truly necessary and can some savings be found there? Didn’t the Board recently hire an internal attorney for $100,000+ salary and while at ‘bare bones’ levels of operations had the funding for that? These are the things the general public is not understanding with all of the organizations asking them for more and more but do not want to fully explain the why’s and where’s. Money is not always the solution and unless the root issues are dealt with, more money will never be enough. so I apologize, but I am still not ‘sold’ and it is not ok to demand citizens just ‘trust’ because someone ‘said so’ as Mr. Guines believes it should be.

    In terms of all of this, none of it dismisses Mr. Guines from his public statement and dimissive attitude that he is wrong in making those statements. The comment of Mr. Dance as having “his nose so far up the chambers’ agenda”. and implying that he has ‘loyalty’ issues is very inappropriate. Regardless of time on the board and whatever manner he was or was not paid or how the money would have been used, it’s a wrong thing to do.

  18. Colleen Conklin says:

    BW, thank you for your openness to discuss the issues and thank you for the additional questions; you bring up some very valid points and I can see how the perception from folks would be where/when does it end. Let me say I agree money doesn’t always solve everything. As a matter a fact, given the down turn in the economy it has really made us examine every single dollar over the last three years and forced on being as lean and mean as we can. Typically there is a solid reason behind the financial decisions that we make and they are not made lightly. I thought you’d be interested in some additional facts – just to set the record straight. I’m not sure where you heard that the district contracts with Enterprise Flagler – we do not. We do not provide them with funding. In regards to going with an in house attorney; again a great deal of thought and consideration went into this decision. We typically contract for outside legal counsel which in the past has been very costly. At the end of 09’ our legal bill was $178,930, EOY 10’ was $114,000. Mrs. Gavin’s position is roughly $95,000. This will be a savings to the district and provide us with more hands on in the realm of training and providing legal advice to the district. In regards to the dreaded school board salary discussion, I know no one really cares and I would hate to see the conversation be derailed by this topic because we’ve all gone through it before. All constitutional officers in the state of Florida are compensated by formula. Over the last several years this school board has voted to freeze their salaries and not accept the new recommended salaries. I know that doesn’t make the rub any easier to bear but it is the way it is, in the state of Florida. Again, Andy is a good board member and I believe that Dr. Guines is trying to be a good mentor to him. Dr. Guines is tough but if we listen closely he can often provide some very valuable insight. This is really an issue for the state legislature. They are responsible to fully fund education in the state of Florida in the most equitable way. They are abdicating their responsibility and placing it on the backs of local taxpayers. And yes, Mr. Stolz, a tax is a tax is a tax. I get it but how do you expect for general services to be provided to the community such as education, fire, safety, and health. I know we will never see eye to eye on that issue and it’s ok. We are a civilized society which requires us to have educated productive citizens. We do the best we can with the resources we are given. Are we perfect? No, but we give it a heck of a try!

  19. Truth Traveler says:

    Mrs. Conklin, thank you for the disclosure of attorney expenses the taxpayers have paid over the past couple of years and what we will be paying this coming year. As a long time resident and taxpayer of this county, I have some questions I would like you to address if you will.

    You said that Mrs. Galvin’s position is “roughly $95,000.” Is that her total cost to taxpayers or is that her salary alone? If that is her salary alone then she costs the taxpayers more than that as an employee of the board. What does she cost the taxpayers with her benefits and expense account (if any) included? It seems to me that in reality, she is costing us more now than the contracted services the tax payers paid the past year. Otherwise, why would she be willing to take less than what she was paid before?

    We also know that several county level employees have already received raises this summer and all administrators received iPads as soon as they came on the market. Yet, if this tax does not come through, the threat is that programs for the children will suffer. The children of this county already have suffered cuts like not having any field trips for several years now. This coming year, their teachers get $0 dollars to spend for the children’s classroom supplies.

    As a taxpayer, I wonder, with the budget decisions made so far, what the school board and the county administration would decide to do with the $2 million? Would any of it go directly to the children or offer even a minimal raise to teachers and support staff that have done without more than their share in these “bare bones” budgets.

    The answers to these questions will help me know how to vote in November if the tax does end up on the ballot.

  20. Colleen Conklin says:

    Truth Traveler, I’ll answer your questions the best that I can. The $95,000 is a salary position. We will no longer have to pay outside expenses and that doesn’t come with an expense account. Yes, with a basic benefit package it’s more than the salary line of 95,000 but we believe it is still a cost savings. In addition, we will be able to be more proactive on the training side of administrators and key employees in regards to how to handle legal issues, sexual harrasment claims, workmen’s comp, etc. The proper handling of those issues may save us unforeseen dollars in the future. Regardless, we believe going in-house will save us money or we won’t have done it. Mrs. Gavin was part of a large law firm we contracted with and I’m certain she wasn’t recieving the full compensation that we were billed to pay.
    In regards to administrators who have received raises in the last month – please share with me who they are.
    The Ipads that administrators recieved are cheaper than the past laptops we were using. We are attempting to see if we can realize the full financial savings usingthe Ipads while not sacrificing the functionality they may need. The laptops with full software suits are more suitable and appropriate for students. The ipads are 1/3 of the cost.

    In regards to the 2 million, I believe you may be looking at that in the wrong way. It’s not a matter of what we would decide to DO with the 2 million. Remember, it is already part of our budget. It is not an increase, it’s a continuation so it would be a matter of what do we cut to make up the 2 million shortfall. Does that make sense?

  21. Bob K says:

    OK, so let me see if I understand this correctly: Property values haved decreased “X” amount. School tax revenue has decreased as a result. Normally, the school board could simply raise the school tax millage rate to make up for the lost revenue, but the legislature made a new law requiring this be put on the ballot even if it’s just to maintain current revenue. Regardless of whether it’s approved or not, the school board can still seek to extend the half penny sales tax in the future. Correct?

  22. Colleen Conklin says:

    Yes and no – in Florida it works a bit differently. The state legislature sets the millage rate. They basically tell us each year what we will levy. The School Board can’t simply just raise your taxes to make up for the shortfall. Due to the equalizing formula, the state makes up the shortfall. For example, for many years 80 to 90 % of our budget was made up of local tax dollars. Our tax dollars may have been used to offset the cost of another district that was property “poor”. Due to our decrease in property values we are now getting more of the state coffers. I believe our local contribution is about 70% and the state is about 30%. I know it’s confusing but the states formula is one of the most equalizing in the nation. That is why we become so concerned with issues like the oil spill or a devastating hurricane. The Florida economy is tourism driven and the state relies heavily on those sales tax dollars. I don’t believe it’s a healthy, stable way for a state to build its budget. However, it is what it is. The .25 has been shifted and removed from the formula. School boards can now make the decision to put it on the ballot or not. Which is ok if the state was making up that shortfall but that is not the case. I really don’t know what they are going to do as every single district sits on this funding cliff due to the end of the stimulus dollars. Our cliff is over 5 million dollars. So this is going to prove to be a VERY interesting year. In regards to the 1/2 penny, it expires in 2012 and at that time we can put that on the ballot for renewal.
    The .25 is required to go on the ballot every two years. I just want to be clear; the 1/2 penny is a local sales tax and not part of the millage rate.
    I know it’s very confusing and I hope my answer didn’t confuse the issue more. Anyone who wants or has more questions about this or anything else is welcome to call me at 569-9323. Two other important distinctions: the .25 can only be used for operations (direction classroom support – staff, materials, curric., etc) the ½ penny can only be used for expenses outside of operations and whatever it was designated for on the ballot. In Flagler we have focused primarily on technology and buses.

  23. Jim Guines says:

    Colleen, you are good. This is one of the best explanations I have heard about the fiscal arrangements from anyone and to put your phone number out there to answer more questions; I have to take my hat off to you. I commend you as an elected public servant. You should be a role model to all in publlic office.

  24. H Peter Stolz says:

    Always the consumate politician, Ms Conklin. And you’re not even battling for election this year. I realize that taxes must be used to pay for the education of our children – too bad its a real estate tax: I would guess I’ve been paying taxes a lot longer than you, so I understand the principles just fine. I’m also used to a schoolboard being a volunteer group – elected, but serving without salary or BENEFITS. Perhaps that would be start in Flagler County. Show the electorate that the board understands and is willing to help. At least one of your predecessors served without salary – maybe the present board ought to emulate his actions. But we’re off the subject. My point was that people will look at expenditures closely – including looking very hard at a tax issue that’s on the ballott. I think your ballott issue will go down in flames. Frankly, I don’t see the schoolboard anywhere close to tightening its belts like so many of the taxpayers in this county have to. Perhaps when the taxpayers realize that the school system has truly operated on dollars all being spent on worthwhile educational efforts, they will once again renew a levy.

  25. Jim Guines says:

    I hope Andy Dance makes the schools case clear to the chamber in the coming weeks.

  26. Anonymous says:

    Get your vote right tonight, Andy!!!!!

  27. Two Cents says:

    The title of this article is Dance’s Two Masters……. The discussion moved into an explanation of taxation.

    Moving back to the point at hand, I do not believe a person can serve two masters.

    He should have abstained from voting as a member of the Chamber of Commerce.

    If he can’t see the conflict he shouldn’t be serving in the public’s interest as a school board member.

    Judging by some of the responses some think that Mr Dance can walk on water.
    Exactly what are his accomplishments during his time on the board that makes him the best representative and such a huge asset? Aren’t others contributions equally as valuable? Is integrity the sole barometer used to gauge one’s effectiveness?

  28. Dollar Sign says:

    This merry-go-round could only happen in government or education and is obnoxious to the working class and retirees. It would not survive in the corporate world

    Aside from all the banter, i would like to know if what was reported in The Observer was correct, that the proposed budget is almost $100 million, and that 80% of that is for salaries and benefits. I wonder what the number of employees are in the school system to justify almost $800M in payroll and benefits.

    Again, I repeat that only in government or education could a business exist on such a disproportionate balance in spending.

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