By Mary Kate Cary, Karrin Vasby Anderson
With four months to go until Election Day, the earliest-ever general election debate featured two presidents – one current, one former – and a lot of bitter personal attacks. Joe Biden’s universally acknowledged poor performance surprised and even panicked Democrats; Donald Trump gave a more forceful – if not truthful – performance.
The Conversation asked two scholars, Mary Kate Cary and Karrin Vasby Anderson, to watch the debate and analyze a passage or a moment that stood out to them. Anderson is a communications scholar with a specialty in gender and the presidency, as well as political pop culture. Cary teaches political speechwriting and worked as a White House speechwriter for President George H.W. Bush, for whom she wrote more than 100 addresses.
Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
Karrin Vasby Anderson, Colorado State University Department of Communication Studies
One of the first definitions of good public speaking I learned as a college debater and student of rhetoric came from the ancient Roman scholar and rhetoric teacher Quintilian. In his 12-volume “Institutio Oratoria,” Quintilian said the ideal orator was a good person, speaking well. He was particularly concerned about the danger that a skilled rhetorician who lacked character could pose to society.
A presidential debate ought to showcase ideal orators – skilled speakers who are also people of character. The June 27 debate offered voters an either-or scenario.
Former President Donald Trump was aggressive, confident and disciplined, but he peppered his remarks with a steady stream of lies, half-truths and misinformation. President Joe Biden focused on Trump’s documented record – both criminal and political – but failed as an orator, demonstrating none of the charisma and command on display during his most recent State of the Union address just four months ago.
The contrast was clear early in the debate when CNN’s Dana Bash asked Trump whether he would block access to abortion medication. Trump said that he would not. He then falsely claimed that, in the lead-up to the 2022 Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade and removed the federal protection for abortion rights, “everybody wanted to get it back to the states, everybody, without exception.”
Trump then went on offense, accusing Democrats of taking “the life of a child in the eighth month, ninth month, even after birth.”
Biden’s response was initially clear and resolute: “It’s been a terrible thing, what you’ve done,” he said. And he pushed back against the preposterous claim that “everybody” wanted Roe v. Wade overturned, saying, “the idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying we’re going to turn civil rights back to the states (and) let each state have a different rule.”
But the rest of Biden’s response was muddled. After “veering inexplicably” into an anecdote about a woman murdered by an undocumented immigrant, Biden expressed his support for people’s right to choose by saying on three separate occasions that the decision should be up to a doctor, rather than the pregnant person.
Trump closed out the segment by reiterating his blatant lie in stronger terms: “So that means, he can take the life of the baby, in the ninth month and even after birth because some states, Democrat run, take it after birth.” The Associated Press’s fact check of this claim is succinct: “Infanticide is criminalized in every state, and no state has passed a law that allows killing a baby after birth.”
After nearly a decade of exposure to Trump’s habitual misinformation, lies about states murdering babies may not stand out as shocking in a presidential debate. And, certainly, it’s an argument that should have been easy for Biden to refute.
But if the populace must choose between a good person and someone who spoke well, Quintilian would remind us that someone who speaks well but has no integrity is dangerous.
The consequences for the republic could be dire.
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Mary Kate Cary, University of Virginia Department of Politics
I think America just saw history being made.
Within 10 minutes, a very hoarse President Joe Biden, was asked about deficit spending, lost his train of thought, and ended his answer by muttering something about “beating Medicare.” It was awful.
There were so many moments when Biden looked confused and unable to process what was happening. I took notes on key exchanges, but the number of embarrassing episodes, unfinished sentences and incoherent phrases by Biden is too long to list. His answer on why he should be president in his 80s somehow veered into computer chips being made in South Korea.
Former President Donald Trump made his own share of missteps, but overall, he was relatively sharp, and restrained when he was provoked. He scored some points on the issues and did much better than he did in their first debate four years ago. Trump did better than I think many people thought he would.
Our assignment tonight was to find a moment to react to and put it in context. I’ve been to multiple presidential debates and watched many more on television over the years, and have never seen anything like this.
Is there any way the Democrats can convincingly argue for keeping Biden as their nominee?
The bottom line: Moderators Jake Tapper and Dana Bash did a good job of asking substantive questions and keeping control of the debate; Trump missed an opportunity to knock it out of the park but got through it; and Biden will most likely have caused a disaster for the Democratic Party.
Mary Kate Cary is Adjunct Professor of Politics and Director of Think Again at the University of Virginia. Karrin Vasby Anderson is Professor of Communication Studies at Colorado State University.
Deirdre says
I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry, instead I slept, I couldn’t even keep my eyes open through it.
This is good news, most people now know Biden is not going to make it four more years when he can’t even get through one debate. It’s not too late to show him the door.
I can’t vote for someone who is complicit in genocide, and I wish we could get rid of him immediately.
He was highly likely to lose to Trump even before this debate, no matter what he won’t be the next president. He just needs to go willingly to make this transition smooth, and with the right candidate Democrats will prevail, even though it’s last minute.
My main concern is I don’t know who plays a better game of golf, I’d like some explanations. It’s good they’ve got their priorities straight.
Keep Flagler Beautiful says
Of course Democrats are in shock. This is the first time they’ve seen with their own eyes the staggering, deeply concerning decline of a president they installed in office. For years the leftie media has been calling the Biden decline fake news or edited video clips. The fact is, the greedy Democrat Party has poisoned the media. They don’t care if they slowly kill an old man as long as he stays alive long enough to get reelected and the party stays in power. If mainstream media had been reporting truthfully on his decline over the past 3 1/2 years, the debate performance would not have been anywhere near as shocking to them, but now they’ve had to face up to the truth: that an invalid has his finger on the nuclear button and the same non compos mentis individual has been destroying our economy with gifts to other nations’ war chests and lavish giveaways, like arbitrary student loan payoffs, that we absolutely could not afford. Even the Supreme Court told him he had no right to do the latter. The same goes for the border crisis. He opened the gates right after he took office and ever since then, our national nightmare has been on steroids. The Democrat party is 100% responsible for every one of Biden’s reckless acts, most of them initiated by executive order. I just hope we don’t end up in a world war during his final agonizing months in office.
jim says
biden didn’t lie??? NO MILITARY DIED ON MY WATCH…afghanistan never happened? 13 soldiers weren’t murdered?? There is NO GREATER LIE THAN DENYING SOLDIERS WERE MURDERED ON YOUR WATCH. He told many other lies which you all blame on his memory and age… good luck with that
beachcomberT says
Tnx for two perspectives from non-politicians.
Carl Jones says
I actually believe that a debate is about “policy”, I didn’t hear any from the “lying felon” but even an aging Biden is better than a 34 count convicted felon, two-timed impeached insurrectionist traitor…step back from your lying eyes and realize that it’s more about where this country is destined if this criminal is re-elected. I can admit that Biden performed badly but if I admit that, can you admit that a convicted felon running for the highest office in the country is more dangerous than electing an aging man with morals, decency and integrity? Can you admit that?
Carl Jones says
Honestly, I knew it would be comical and you know what else sane people knew? That trump would lie! And you know what else sane people knew? That President Biden would stutter and run his words together. And you know what else? That trump would lie some more and some more. Same people know that trump is a liar, we also know that President Biden is old and so is trump. But sane people know that President Biden is of good character, does he lie, sure we all lie about something, the only one we know in existence is that doesn’t lie is Jesus the Christ. Neither of these candidates are him. But sane people would agree that we want someone to lead this country to have good morals as we should teach our children; character, as we should instill in our children; decency, as the Lord allowed us grow into, and integrity, to do the right thing even when noone is looking, would you agree with any of that Deirdre?
Stephen says
We now know that Florida is a Liberal state. Trump is Pro Choice!!! Thank you. What will governor DEsantis do? Imagine, a conservative governor in Trump’s liberal Florida. Republicans must be very confused.
DaleL says
Why oh why are these two old European Americans our only two realistic choices for president? I wouldn’t want either one to watch my house, let alone my country. It is now obvious that Biden’s aides and handlers have been gaslighting America. Trump doesn’t give a damn about anyone but himself. He is ignorant on just about every subject except rabble rousing.
I picture Trump watching a house. First, he would invite in crooks to steal everything of value and split the proceeds with them. Second, he would gleefully burn down the house and lie about what happened.
Biden would intend to carefully watch the house, but he would wander off absentmindedly. Crooks would ransack the house while he was gone. The one difference is that with Biden, the house might still be standing.
Carl Jones says
Shocked? You better believe we are shocked and appalled on how you magas have completely and dumbly rallied behind a convicted felon. I taught my four kids and will teach my 8 grandchildren to never lie, always try to tell the truth, always be of good character, live your life with decency and integrity, that is to do the right thing even
when no one is watching. What we lefties really and truly want to know is how you and your kind can place equality on two
men, one of proven and documented felon and a man whose only downfall is that he’s older that the felon you support. That’s what shocks us! All due respect!
DaleL says
65 American service members died in combat while serving Trump during his time in the White House office from January 2017 to January 2021. There were fatalities every year of his presidency. 45 of those service members died in Afghanistan.
The blotched withdraw from Afghanistan, which was negotiated by Donald Trump, resulted in 13 American service members deaths. However, far more died on Trump’s watch.
Nephew Of Uncle Sam says
“The Democrat party is 100% responsible for every one of Biden’s reckless acts….”
You really should look in the mirror and say,
The Republican party is 100% responsible for every one of tRumps reckless acts…
along with supporting a Convicted Felon and Responsible for Sexual Assault.
Nephew Of Uncle Sam says
At least he didn’t call them Suckers and Losers.
Nephew Of Uncle Sam says
Seems President Biden answered every question and the Convicted Felon did nothing but 30+ lies and how he was so wronged.
jake says
Trump NEVER made the claim, someone didn’t die on his watch, that is the difference. Joey is clueless, and many of his supporters are also.
Les Patterson says
Right, and Biden didn’t lie. The border is closed, and no one died on his watch. Neither is true, and even you Trump hating types know this. You can pick and choose your fallacies, however, joe should have never been elected, nor served. He’s an embarrassment to this country.
Bill Boots says
In other words Carl, you just offered a paragraph of blather about President Trump repeatedly lying, without one single instance of a specific lie, you state biden lies, which is the only truth you offered!
Thanks for nothing Carl……..
Bill Boots says
AMEN, Keep Flagler Beautiful,
The Supreme Court should undo the student loan scam, all monies returned to our Treasury Department
Carl Jones says
Jim,
In my 26 year career in the military, four deployments in HFZ’s one thing we all knew that there was a chance that we may not make it back to our families, but we went because we swore an oath of enlistment and some gave all.
In this oath of enlistment a portion of it is the same as the oath of office that “ALL” true presidents take: : “to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
You boldly support a former president that broke that oath…and if we are tallying “lies”, come back with an accurate count of the lies trump told in that same debate and while you are at it, inform us on the documents that your authoritarian wannabe stole from the WH and continues to lie about to this day. And if not for the biased judge that has displayed her fealty to him, he would most definitely be locked up right now!!! He actually should be under the jail for the number of people that died on his watch called COVID! So there is a “greater lie”, it’s called donald trump!
Pierre Tristam says
Carl Jones did not have time to list the 30,573 lies the lying sac of felonies told just the four years he played president on TV, and none of us has time to list the lies the sac told since.
Pierre Tristam says
No, Trump only called the fallen “losers.”
feddy says
And over 2000 were killed under Obama, different time different geographic climate. But i will say that out of all of the policies that Biden changed 1st day in office he decided to keep that withdraw date? I think both sucked during the debate but with Biden and is condition tells me that he is not and have not made actual presidential decisions the past year or so, who is making the decisions.
Sherry says
@les. . . Therefore, you would rather vote for a “Convicted Criminal”, a “Felon”, who has also been found “Guilty” of “Sexual Assault and Defamation” and “Guilty” of “Fraud” in 4 different trials. What in the hell is wrong with you?
Jackson Gallagher says
Jill Stein
Cornel West
Bobby Kennedy/RFK Jr.
Chase Oliver
Randall Terry
These are all folks running for the presidency. We here may not agree on things politically, but i think we all agree
on the idea that their should be more options. Well, here’s that energy. Google them and read up on their platforms
and understand any of these 5 candidates will be on enough ballots to WIN the presidency. So if you want them to win,
vote for them.