![U.S. President Joe Biden and Donald Trump participate in the CNN Presidential Debate on June 27, 2024.](https://i0.wp.com/flaglerlive.com/wp-content/uploads/debate-biden.jpg?resize=1000%2C667&ssl=1)
By Mary Kate Cary, Karrin Vasby Anderson
With four months to go until Election Day, the earliest-ever general election debate featured two presidents – one current, one former – and a lot of bitter personal attacks. Joe Biden’s universally acknowledged poor performance surprised and even panicked Democrats; Donald Trump gave a more forceful – if not truthful – performance.
The Conversation asked two scholars, Mary Kate Cary and Karrin Vasby Anderson, to watch the debate and analyze a passage or a moment that stood out to them. Anderson is a communications scholar with a specialty in gender and the presidency, as well as political pop culture. Cary teaches political speechwriting and worked as a White House speechwriter for President George H.W. Bush, for whom she wrote more than 100 addresses.
![A white man with gray hair answers a question during a presidential debate.](https://i0.wp.com/images.theconversation.com/files/603630/original/file-20240628-21-8bt5p9.jpg?ssl=1)
Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
Karrin Vasby Anderson, Colorado State University Department of Communication Studies
One of the first definitions of good public speaking I learned as a college debater and student of rhetoric came from the ancient Roman scholar and rhetoric teacher Quintilian. In his 12-volume “Institutio Oratoria,” Quintilian said the ideal orator was a good person, speaking well. He was particularly concerned about the danger that a skilled rhetorician who lacked character could pose to society.
A presidential debate ought to showcase ideal orators – skilled speakers who are also people of character. The June 27 debate offered voters an either-or scenario.
Former President Donald Trump was aggressive, confident and disciplined, but he peppered his remarks with a steady stream of lies, half-truths and misinformation. President Joe Biden focused on Trump’s documented record – both criminal and political – but failed as an orator, demonstrating none of the charisma and command on display during his most recent State of the Union address just four months ago.
The contrast was clear early in the debate when CNN’s Dana Bash asked Trump whether he would block access to abortion medication. Trump said that he would not. He then falsely claimed that, in the lead-up to the 2022 Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade and removed the federal protection for abortion rights, “everybody wanted to get it back to the states, everybody, without exception.”
Trump then went on offense, accusing Democrats of taking “the life of a child in the eighth month, ninth month, even after birth.”
Biden’s response was initially clear and resolute: “It’s been a terrible thing, what you’ve done,” he said. And he pushed back against the preposterous claim that “everybody” wanted Roe v. Wade overturned, saying, “the idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying we’re going to turn civil rights back to the states (and) let each state have a different rule.”
But the rest of Biden’s response was muddled. After “veering inexplicably” into an anecdote about a woman murdered by an undocumented immigrant, Biden expressed his support for people’s right to choose by saying on three separate occasions that the decision should be up to a doctor, rather than the pregnant person.
Trump closed out the segment by reiterating his blatant lie in stronger terms: “So that means, he can take the life of the baby, in the ninth month and even after birth because some states, Democrat run, take it after birth.” The Associated Press’s fact check of this claim is succinct: “Infanticide is criminalized in every state, and no state has passed a law that allows killing a baby after birth.”
After nearly a decade of exposure to Trump’s habitual misinformation, lies about states murdering babies may not stand out as shocking in a presidential debate. And, certainly, it’s an argument that should have been easy for Biden to refute.
But if the populace must choose between a good person and someone who spoke well, Quintilian would remind us that someone who speaks well but has no integrity is dangerous.
The consequences for the republic could be dire.
![A white man makes a gesture with his hand during a presidential debate.](https://i0.wp.com/images.theconversation.com/files/603629/original/file-20240628-17-3uiopf.jpg?ssl=1)
Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
Mary Kate Cary, University of Virginia Department of Politics
I think America just saw history being made.
Within 10 minutes, a very hoarse President Joe Biden, was asked about deficit spending, lost his train of thought, and ended his answer by muttering something about “beating Medicare.” It was awful.
There were so many moments when Biden looked confused and unable to process what was happening. I took notes on key exchanges, but the number of embarrassing episodes, unfinished sentences and incoherent phrases by Biden is too long to list. His answer on why he should be president in his 80s somehow veered into computer chips being made in South Korea.
Former President Donald Trump made his own share of missteps, but overall, he was relatively sharp, and restrained when he was provoked. He scored some points on the issues and did much better than he did in their first debate four years ago. Trump did better than I think many people thought he would.
Our assignment tonight was to find a moment to react to and put it in context. I’ve been to multiple presidential debates and watched many more on television over the years, and have never seen anything like this.
Is there any way the Democrats can convincingly argue for keeping Biden as their nominee?
The bottom line: Moderators Jake Tapper and Dana Bash did a good job of asking substantive questions and keeping control of the debate; Trump missed an opportunity to knock it out of the park but got through it; and Biden will most likely have caused a disaster for the Democratic Party.
Mary Kate Cary is Adjunct Professor of Politics and Director of Think Again at the University of Virginia. Karrin Vasby Anderson is Professor of Communication Studies at Colorado State University.
![](https://i0.wp.com/flaglerlive.com/wp-content/uploads/the-conversation.jpg?resize=250%2C38&ssl=1)
The Conversation arose out of deep-seated concerns for the fading quality of our public discourse and recognition of the vital role that academic experts could play in the public arena. Information has always been essential to democracy. It’s a societal good, like clean water. But many now find it difficult to put their trust in the media and experts who have spent years researching a topic. Instead, they listen to those who have the loudest voices. Those uninformed views are amplified by social media networks that reward those who spark outrage instead of insight or thoughtful discussion. The Conversation seeks to be part of the solution to this problem, to raise up the voices of true experts and to make their knowledge available to everyone. The Conversation publishes nightly at 9 p.m. on FlaglerLive.
Deirdre says
I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry, instead I slept, I couldn’t even keep my eyes open through it.
This is good news, most people now know Biden is not going to make it four more years when he can’t even get through one debate. It’s not too late to show him the door.
I can’t vote for someone who is complicit in genocide, and I wish we could get rid of him immediately.
He was highly likely to lose to Trump even before this debate, no matter what he won’t be the next president. He just needs to go willingly to make this transition smooth, and with the right candidate Democrats will prevail, even though it’s last minute.
My main concern is I don’t know who plays a better game of golf, I’d like some explanations. It’s good they’ve got their priorities straight.
Keep Flagler Beautiful says
Of course Democrats are in shock. This is the first time they’ve seen with their own eyes the staggering, deeply concerning decline of a president they installed in office. For years the leftie media has been calling the Biden decline fake news or edited video clips. The fact is, the greedy Democrat Party has poisoned the media. They don’t care if they slowly kill an old man as long as he stays alive long enough to get reelected and the party stays in power. If mainstream media had been reporting truthfully on his decline over the past 3 1/2 years, the debate performance would not have been anywhere near as shocking to them, but now they’ve had to face up to the truth: that an invalid has his finger on the nuclear button and the same non compos mentis individual has been destroying our economy with gifts to other nations’ war chests and lavish giveaways, like arbitrary student loan payoffs, that we absolutely could not afford. Even the Supreme Court told him he had no right to do the latter. The same goes for the border crisis. He opened the gates right after he took office and ever since then, our national nightmare has been on steroids. The Democrat party is 100% responsible for every one of Biden’s reckless acts, most of them initiated by executive order. I just hope we don’t end up in a world war during his final agonizing months in office.
jim says
biden didn’t lie??? NO MILITARY DIED ON MY WATCH…afghanistan never happened? 13 soldiers weren’t murdered?? There is NO GREATER LIE THAN DENYING SOLDIERS WERE MURDERED ON YOUR WATCH. He told many other lies which you all blame on his memory and age… good luck with that
beachcomberT says
Tnx for two perspectives from non-politicians.