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Nurse Assistants at Grand Oaks Rehab Strike for $15/hr Wage in Echo of National Movement

| April 14, 2016

grand oaks rehab strike consulate care

Grand Oaks Rehab’s certified nurse assistants walked off the job today for a 24-hour strike, lining pickets across from the facility on Palm Coast Parkway. (© FlaglerLive)

Starting at 7 this morning, across the street from Grand Oaks Health and Rehabilitation on Palm Coast Parkway, groups of a dozen to two dozen low-wage Grand Oaks workers staged a 24-hour strike protesting low pay and calling for a $15-an-hour minimum wage. The facility itself posted armed guards at its two entrances—privately hired from the sheriff’s office at $1,500 for the day, or the equivalent of 100 man-hours at $15-an-hour—to police all those coming in and keep some people (including reporters) out.

The strike was part of state and national movement in support of the $15-an-hour wage, with poverty-wage workers striking at fast food restaurants, child care centers, airports, hospitals and other industries in upwards of 300 cities.

It was the first strike at Grand Oaks, which roughly five years ago was acquired by Consulate Health Care, a privately held Orlando-based company that describes itself as Florida’s largest provider of nursing and rehabilitation facilities in Florida—workers are striking at all 19 of its facilities in the Sunshine state—and the sixth largest in the nation, “providing service with our hearts and hands,” as its motto goes.

Its employees agree: they’re providing the hearts and the hands. But Consulate isn’t paying them adequately for it, they say, and most of those Certified Nursing Assistants, custodians, food service workers, laundry workers and others on today’s picket lines have to work two or three jobs to make ends meet.

“If they can get the decent wage to $15 an hour folks won’t have to work two jobs,” says Veronica Lewis, a union organizer on the picket line along Palm Coast Parkway. “Everything is going up, bread, milk, gas, wages just stay the same. It’s ridiculous. It’s time for poverty wages to be buried. The fight is on for $15, that’s what folks deserve, and we’re not going to stop until we get $15.”


Workers who carry two or more jobs to make ends meet rebel against poverty wages.
 


Take Denise Dawson. She’s been a CNA for 39 years. When she started in 1977, it was $2.90 an hour. She started working at Grand Oaks seven years ago. She’s making $11.74. “That’s it. After 39 years.” The value of $2.90 in 1977 adjusted to current dollars? $11.40. In other words, for 39 years’ experience, Dawson has had a net raise of 34 cents, over and above the cost of living. “I have a disabled husband, but for many years I was a widow, raising a son, worked three jobs just to support him.”

Tuwanna Robinson has been working at Grand Oaks seven years, and has 19 years’ experience. She makes $11.85 an hour. She works two full-time jobs: at Grand Oaks from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m., and at Moultrie Creek, a similar facility in St. Augustine, from 2:45 p.m. to 10 p.m., for $12.58 an hour (she’s been there nine months): 16-hour days, five days a week. “I’ve got rent, I’ve got bills, I like to do things, I help my kids,” who are grown, she says. She could not get by on one full-time job at that rate. Few of her colleagues could, unless they have other subsidies.

Workers at Grand Oaks start at less than $9 an hour. For new hires, the striking workers say, they’re agreeable to a starting wage of $10 an hour, but with compensation for experience.

“I’ve been there almost 10 years and I’ve literally only got about $1 raise in 10 years that I’ve been there,” Holly Elston says, between chants directed at the eastbound traffic on Palm Coast Parkway. This morning, Elston woke up to a sign on her door informing her that her rent was going up $50.

Consulate’s latest offer at the bargaining table: 11 cents an hour.

Management staff at Grand Oaks would not speak with a reporter. Jennifer Trapp, the company’s public relations handler, emailed a statement: “While we are disappointed in the union’s decision to strike, the continuity of patient and resident care will remain unaffected thanks to the combined efforts of our dedicated staff and compassionate fellow care center volunteers. We will continue to work in good faith, as we have always done, towards a resolution.” She did not respond to emailed questions about the company’s actual offer to workers, why it would not agree to a $15 wage, and other items. (After the story published, Trapp wrote: “I cannot comment on the details of on-going negotiations, and our previously released statement serves as our response to media at this time.”)

armed guards grand oaks rehab

Though privately paid by the company for the service, two sheriff’s deputies at either entrances to Grand Oaks checked all traffic into the facility and barred certain workers. Click on the image for larger view. (© FlaglerLive)

The company has sent conflicting signals to its employees regarding the strike’s consequences. In one Florida facility—the Franco Nursing and Rehab Center in Fort Lauderdale–executive director Marcia Couitt told certified nursing assistants in a memo that they would not face retaliation. Her April 11 memo was asking workers to let her know if they intended to work or not on strike day, so she could make replacement arrangements. “As I said before, there will be no discipline associated with any answer you give, but I’m counting on each of you to be honest with me, either way you decide, so I can make sure our residents have adequate care on Thursday,” Couitt wrote.

A memo to workers by Stacy Lingenfelter, the executive director at a Consulate facility in Kissimmee, was more threatening. “If you engage in an economic strike, you can be permanently replaced,” Lingenfelter wrote. “If you are permanently replaced, and you later provide an unconditional offer to return to work, you will be placed on a preferential hiring list and will be offered an opening for positions you are qualified to perform based on your seniority.”

Different variations of the memos went up at facilities across the state.

grand oaks rehabilitation consulate care

The striking workers lined a segment of Palm Coast Parkway, across from Grand Oaks Rehab. Click on the image for larger view. (© FlaglerLive)

“Our members know, they’ve seen this before,” said Jose Suarez, state spokesman for the service employees union. “These are mere intimidation tactics, either to get them to feel bad about what they’re doing or straight intimidation. It’s important to note that regardless of the fact, these care givers do care about these jobs, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing this work for this little money, but they have families to take care of.”

The cops at the facilities’ entrances are intended to have the same intimidating effect: they have what amounts to a black list on a clipboard (a red clipboard at the north entrance) with the names of all the banned workers. A sheriff’s spokesman confirmed that the deputies, though they were in department-issued uniforms and had their department-issued sheriff’s patrol cars—which gave the impression that the county sheriff was policing Grand Oaks’s grounds—were privately paid by the company.

Judy Sroka is a CNA at the Grand Oaks facility. She was on the picket line this afternoon. Her wife is a nurse at Grand Oaks. This morning she drove her in with their van. She was stopped by the guard, and ordered not to go further. Her wife could be dropped off. “She had to get out and walk in and I was in the van and had to leave the premises,” Sroka said. Intimidation aside, it’s not clear why Grand Oaks and other facilities would take the heavy-handed armed-guard approach: the workers on the picket line were nowhere near unruly. They chanted, brandished $15 wage signs, waved to traffic. It’s not as if any intended to sneak in to administer fugitive care or pay surprise visits to their residents.

Sroka started at Grand Oaks 20 years ago at $6.50 an hour. She’s probably cared for thousands of Palm Coast and Flagler residents along the way. She’s done slightly better than some of her colleagues. Her pay is now $16.50—not grand, and certainly not in line with her experience after two decades, she says, or enough to care for her family of six. But she was on the line in solidarity. “I’m not OK with the starting pay that nobody wants to start to work here for,” Sroka said, citing the $8.50-an-hour starting wage.

“Who wants to take care of 15 or 20 residents, people, for $8.50 an hour? Nobody. We’re dealing with diseases, infections, biohazards,” Elston said. (Evening and graveyard shifts get an additional $1 in differential pay.)

“We’re dealing with lives,” another worker on the line said.

“I do a damn good job with what I do,” Sroka said, “and my patients and family members appreciate how I take care of these people. This morning one of my patients’ husband stopped right here and gave us a dozen donuts, because they’re behind us.”

Suarez said 1,600 to 1,800 workers at Consulate facilities walked off their jobs today, and did so for just 24 hours to raise their voices against the “pennies on the dollar” raises they’ve been offered. “These care-givers have a huge responsibility, they take care of our grandparents, our parents when they can’t take care of themselves. They’re responsible for people’s lives at the end of the day.”

rehab consulate care palm coast strike

Click on the image for larger view. (© FlaglerLive)

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30 Responses for “Nurse Assistants at Grand Oaks Rehab Strike for $15/hr Wage in Echo of National Movement”

  1. anonymous says:

    If they received pay like these lazy city workers like jim landon making almost$170k and demanding $218k. He has his asst. Kendra do all the work. What a joke. They pay shitty to your average worker and they are struggling to make it like myself.

  2. Veteran says:

    Worked at Palm Coast Data for 10 years and the pay is almost identical. I imagine the duties of CNAs are not very pleasant. They should make more than $15.

  3. woodchuck says:

    If you don”t like the hours and pay quit.It’s a free country become a college graduate.If not subway is always hiring.

  4. YankeeExPat says:

    ” A sheriff’s spokesman confirmed that the deputies, though they were in department-issued uniforms and had their department-issued sheriff’s patrol cars—which gave the impression that the county sheriff was policing Grand Oaks’s grounds—were privately paid by the company.”

    Do the Strikers Pose that much of a Danger that Public Resources and Public Safety can be short sheeted?

    It’s leaves one with a lack of Confidence that to Protect and Serve puts citizens second in the Queue, behind a private business that is paying what is essentially a stipend.

    I have no problem with Deputies working off duty jobs in the capacity of the Sheriffs department, but once that squad car is at a single location , it is no longer in patrol capacity anywhere else.

  5. Charlie D says:

    Woodchuck, try walking in their shoes. I bet you wouldn’t last a day. It’s easy to say quit and get another job. this country is going downhill. Lets see if you have the same answer when you’re in rehab.

  6. woodchuck says:

    Hey,Charlie D I will only need rehab if Clinton wins office.Fast food workers want $15 an hour.Enjoy your $14 Big Mac.

  7. The Truth says:

    Just so everybody knows a CNA(Certified nursing assistant) is the lowest ranked person in the medical field, They take a 6 week course on how basic things work in a hospital setting. They do not deserve more then $11/hour, if they wanted more money they should at least go get their LPN. An EMT who goes through 255 hours of school for almost 20 weeks makes $12/hour on average. These people are not even qualified to be a school nurse. They have no responsibility, they can barely do anything other then CPR and basic vitals without a Nurses permission. I have met CNAs who can’t even perform proper CPR or get an accurate blood pressure. I hope these people find a new profession because this was the most ridiculous thing I have seen all day.

  8. Sherry says:

    For those who so easily say quit and “become” a college graduate. . . I would give gambling odds that you would NOT be willing to support the public funding needed to allow people to go to college for less than the current astronomical tuition, or public funds to help support their families while they take time off to attend classes.

    Those kind of comments are full of ignorant, hateful, disrespectful, flippant, remarks that achieve nothing except increasing the divide between our citizens. Some caring, reasonable suggestions which support those who work very hard every day yet are still struggling would be a “positive” step in solving this huge problem across our nation.

    Karma will bring justice . . . and the need for caring, kind rehabilitation to ease suffering will happen to the vast majority of us sooner or later. Those who have such disdain for those caregivers need to be careful of the Karma they are creating. What goes around comes around!

  9. WoodyChucker says:

    Woodchuck i bet you are a Trump supporter. So the people that work hard to care for the sick and elderly are irrelevant and shouldn’t complain about their wage because they chose that line of work? Where would our society be without these workers? We should just cast off our elderly and sickly to fend for themselves right? Caring for these patients is much more critical than providing fast food. Any profession that is an essential part of a society, health care, police, teachers, fire fighters, should all earn a whole lot more than they are making, under $10 per hour is disgusting. This is the type of reform our society needs, provide a living wage for those who work essential jobs. You show your ignorance by comparing them to subway workers.

  10. Anonymous says:

    So when MINIMUM gos to 15 does that then mean every-other who makes over minimum up to 15 gets an equal raise??? In a “fair” world they would then so every other up the line. In the end 15 will be no better then minimum today.

  11. PCer says:

    And if Grand Oaks cannot find workers to do their crappy job for $8.50 and hour, they will have to raise wages to find people who will. Supply and demand works both ways.

  12. Geezer says:

    These rehab facilities/nursing homes are an excellent barometer indicating
    just how little as a society we care about our most vulnerable people (our elderly).

    If the CNA’s do get the money that they want–Grand Oaks will simply cut back
    and have them doing the work of three lower-paid employees. They’re already
    doing the work of two.

    These facilities depend on Medicare dollars. Medicare needs to greatly tighten the
    requirements for certification. Without the certification they can’t bill Medicare, and
    that spells disaster for these greedy corporations.

    Just how motivated would you be to clean and inhale human waste all day for a
    beginning salary of 8.50 an hour? How do you tend to 15 or 20 clients who are
    at times screaming from pain or hallucinations? These people need to be bathed
    and require help to get out of their wheelchairs in the bathroom. How do you prevent
    your 15 to 20 charges from falling out of their beds, while you’re assisting another patient?
    What, pool noodles?

    This needs to be fixed from the top down–but I say don’t hold your breath.

    Another thing: you can’t just walk in and say “I wanna be a CNA.” You need to take
    a course and be certified. Why the F*** bother? Maybe the commentator above
    has a point about working for Subway instead. (I suspect that he wasn’t trying to
    inject anything except invective remarks.)

    It all comes down to money, PERIOD. Last on the list of priorities is the patient.
    Next to last are the low-paid CNA’s and housekeeping staff. I haven’t even touched
    on employee turnover….

    The other facility in Bunnell can use a good strike–talk about uncaring and dirty….
    They too are owned by a conglomerate that buys up individual nursing homes.

    If you know someone who isn’t well off financially and is facing a long-term stay
    in an assisted living situation–try to arrange care at a private group home.
    Usually there’s 5 or 6 patients in a private home, manned by a CNA around
    the clock. Usually the CNA is the homeowner and has more motivation to see that
    the patients are well-cared for. Palm Coast has quite a few.

    A skilled nursing facility is where you have very few choices, and that’s the case in
    Palm Coast.

    Those who land in Grand Oaks (what a classy name) for rehab after a hospital stay–
    I suggest they rehab mighty quick, and get the hell out. If they can run with crutches–do it!

    Like I stressed before: Medicare needs to tighten minimum requirements for billing
    certification. CNA’s need to be paid in a manner where they covet their jobs, and
    that means a fair living wage. Many CNA’s don’t give a shit about their job, and
    it reflects on their interactions with patients. However there’s a few that really care,
    and that’s because they feel rewarded in what they do. Keep those fine people,
    fire the malcontents–bring in new people who want to earn a decent salary.
    YOU HAVE TO PAY A DECENT SALARY.

    I hear that Chick fil A pays its workers a decent wage–so why not pay
    a decent salary to CNA’s who are exposed to disease and unpleasant sights
    all day long?

    Why should patients be caught in the middle of an employer and employee war?
    The poor patient is always the loser…

    FCSO protecting Grand Oaks disgusts me. They should have been protecting
    their union brethren instead, tsk, tsk.
    And they blocked access to the reporters? WTF?

    Here’s a bit of reading for you regarding another facility in Ormond:
    http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20130418/NEWS/304189997

    If I ever get to the point where I need help in daily living–I think I’ll just check out
    permanently. I know what awaits…. I’d rather croak.

  13. tulip says:

    GEEZER How does a person find out the locations and info about the group care homes in Palm Coast. It’s good to know they do exist here.

    I agree, the employees at Grand Oaks should be making far more money. It is a tremendously responsible job taking care of invalid patients correctly and humanely, not to mention the wear and tear on the nurse’s bodies from lifting them.

  14. Compassion says:

    A CNA’s job is not simply about just wiping a persons backside…granted that is part of our duty but we also show an emence amount of compassion and love for each and every person that we encounter. We will have people that come in and have months to live and we watch them breakdown and at times literally die in front of us. Their are ones that can’t feed themselves and we do that, there are ones that can’t bathe themselves and we do that, there are ones that have lost them selves with in their own mind that we settle down and bring by back to a more peaceful reality. Dementia, Alzheimer’s, Cancer, AIDS, HIV, Marsa C diff these are all things that may seem trivial to some of you people but to us this is what we do for a living this is what we work for for a living. There are times when the job gets really rough when you have a combative resident and you sit there and you get spit on her urine thrown at you or hit on and these are things that we could just simply look past and understand. We May not have this extravagant college education like some of you guys suggest but we sure have more than just some simple education that allows us to wipe a behind. There are women who work doubles three days a week and still complete their normal 40 hours and go to another job there are women who are holding down two jobs going to school raising children and still we come in there with our hearts and our minds open to each and every person we take care of. Some of you may see this as grunt work BUT how many of you could do this job, how many of you will have that selflessness that will allow you to sit with the person and hold our hands and reassure them that their last breath will not be alone.

  15. Lin says:

    These CNAs hold precious lives in their hands.
    The job is difficult and sometimes there are risks to their own health.
    I didn’t realize the small salary for the level of responsibility.

    If there are a few without the skill level to perform the job, they should be shown the door but the other CNAs should be paid. That’s the thing about unions — everything is “fair” and equal. People are different.

    I have a very good friend who is a CNA who gives good care even though the system tends to work against her. There should be a living wage.

  16. Iknowall says:

    A terribly written article, as usual. …not to mention incredibly biased. It appears the article was written by a 4th grader. That being said, $15/hr minimum is laughable, not to mention impossible. I love all these great “ideas” that have zero chance in reality. It’s simple mathematics, folks.

  17. Geezer says:

    tulip:

    Here’s a couple of links:

    http://www.assisted-living-directory.com/content/palm-coast.cfm

    https://www.caring.com/local/assisted-living-facilities-in-flagler-county-florida

    If your loved-one is with a managed care outfit like American Eldercare,
    you can request a comprehensive list of Flagler or Volusia providers.

    Be well Tulip.

  18. just me says:

    Sherry says:
    April 15, 2016 at 3:59 am
    For those who so easily say quit and “become” a college graduate. . . I would give gambling odds that you would NOT be willing to support the public funding needed to allow people to go to college for less than the current astronomical tuition, or public funds to help support their families while they take time off to attend classes.

    Why is it that tax dollars should be used for reeducation of those who did Not look to their own future? I make less then 15 here in Flagler. my son is about to go to a tech school. he will have over 13K in student debt my wife and I are taking on some 20K in loans I just got a second part time job to help pay for all this. Its NOT the GOVERNMENTS duty to pay its a personal responsibility.

  19. Brian Riehle says:

    Just from reading these comments I think it’s safe to say that only maybe a couple of you who have commented here actually know what really goes on at Grand Oaks (or any other similar facility) and what these CNA’s do. Believe me, they are Angels doing work that most of us wouldn’t do for $20 an hour, and it’s really simple-minded to compare them to someone working for Subway. I don’t know what the Consulate Health Care business model is or what their profit margin is but these CNA’s salary should be more commensurate with the wonderful job they do. If anyone of you want to challenge what I’m saying just come to Grand Oaks almost any day of the week and ask for me. I’ll introduce you to a friend who lives there and take you to Starbucks for coffee.
    Brian Riehle

  20. Ur grandmothers caretaker says:

    The thruth! Let me tell you something… Is that how ur gonna feel when im taking care of ur grandmother or one of your parents?! Im a CNA and let me just say its a very physical and emotional job and someone has to do it! Taking care of sick people day in and day out.., you build a bond with them, you watch them deteriorate, you’re there when their families are falling apart because their losing their loved ones, you make their last days their most comfortable. So when u have a loved one laying in a hospital or a nursing home and your losing ur shit because your watching them die remeber us CNAs who are there around the clock with them making their last days the most comfortable. I don’t discredit nurses but even they will tell you its the CNAs that know the patients the best! So shove it up your ignorant ass!

  21. Pogo says:

    “If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.”

    ― John F. Kennedy [Inaugural Address, January 20 1961]

  22. Anonymous says:

    Right on Brian and thanks for your support. Being at Grand Oaks has been a different kind of experience for me as I have mainly worked in hospice care but the love I have for each and everyone of our residents doesn’t differ. I can name almost all of them by rooms,or simply hearing others speak of their daily activities because I take that much pride in getting to know them. I am not just talking about as my resident but as if they were a friend or kin. I feel like getting to truly know them allows me to better care for them. I’ll know their likes, their dislikes, if they were/are married, if they have children what they did/do for a living etc. To me it makes them feel more comfortable with you (us) and if they are in that state where they are incapable of communicating I know a smile or simply holding their hand can provide some level of comfort.

  23. Sherry says:

    I had an acquaintance once (during the Katrina crisis) who also had no clue at all about what it meant to be “really” poor. She just simply couldn’t understand why “those people simply don’t jump in their cars and go stay in a hotel”. When I asked “what if they don’t have cars”? She looked at me like I had two heads!
    She just couldn’t get her mind around the idea that many of the working poor don’t have money for cars, much less hotels. Needless to say, we are certainly no longer friends.

    So, I’ll ask a similar question here. . . “what if they can’t get a loan for housing, much less tuition”? For a private loan, you need collateral, right? “What if they don’t have boot straps”?

    Yes, I still shake my head and have little patience for those who have no caring or compassion for those who are INTENTIONALLY repressed and disenfranchised in our society of INEQUALITY. . . still clueless and heartless!

  24. Maiden says:

    first of all most of the employees/cna’s at Grand Oaks are HORRIBLE. Look at the ratings online. I’ve met nicer people at toll booths.
    My Aunt almost died there. She was mistreated
    I personally observed their lack of empathy. I was really wondering if Grand Oaks just went to the nearest low income area and hired anyone standing around. That’s how much the CNA’s there care about the patients.
    They deserve nothing. Sure Raise the hourly wage…and hire more qualified CNA’s. The ones they have now….don’t deserve ****!

  25. Geezer says:

    Sherry:

    Look at life as if it’s a ladder.

    Every time you ascend onto the next rung, there’s the guy
    below you–biting your ankles. The person ahead of you
    with the big butt stops abruptly in order to block your ascent.

    Life is a slippery ladder–the rungs coated in grease.
    Then you die. At that point people have nice things to
    say about you.

    ———————————————————————————
    Are you still chowing down on Paella? Bring me back some!

  26. Sherry says:

    Awwww wonderful Geezer. . . you are so funny and clever!

    Hola from wonderful Javea! Freshly caught tuna fillets on the barbie/bri tonight!

    Lunch yesterday in a favorite restaurant in the hills near Bentimantell. Ten different freshly prepared tapas. . . including things like seafood and vegetable tempura wrapped in a thin slice of prosciutto, roasted salmon rolled into a spiral of mashed potatoes and coated with a creamy sauce with a touch of horseradish and dill. Our main was rabbit roasted over an open fire with a side of home made white bean soup. Finished off with tangy lemon tart for dessert. Five glasses of good wine. . . especially the amazing red. . . liquors of Calvados and a creamy Lemoncello. . . with the whole bottles served so that we could have as much as we wanted. The bill. . . including tax and service. . . uh. . . would you believe 43 Euros.

    Is your mouth watering?

    Still. . . although we are so very fortunate that through our very hard work over 30 years of 50 hour weeks, we can afford to have such experiences. . . I have great compassion for those who did not and will not ever have the opportunities to advance themselves as I did.

    Why are so many filled with such hatred for others? The inhumanity is heart breaking!

  27. Maiden says:

    Brian
    I think the bigger question…would you ever admit one of your relatives there? I doubt it.
    Any time I hear that someone may go there for rehab ….I tell them the story about my Aunt.
    Moved to Grand Oaks for rehab. Almost died, admitted into the hospital, went into a coma, almost moved to hospice. Miraculously woke up the day she was to be moved to hospice.
    Beware of Grand Oaks! Read the reviews online..

  28. Brian Riehle says:

    Maiden
    Yes I would put my relatives there….I’d go in myself, and I’m so sorry about your Aunt. I’ve been visiting Grand Oaks almost on a daily basis for close to 4 years now and I’d say that what your Aunt experienced was a very rare event. And I don’t really give much credence to online reviews because the Hundreds of people who are pleased with the services never bother to post a comment, but the small minority who are unhappy always comment.

  29. David S says:

    They have good Physical Therapy but thats it,I know from experiance was there last year between that hell hole in St Augustine and this place who knows.I agree they need a big increase and the management needs to be ousted the only thing that they are interested in is making the money,I was employed in hospitals and had a great job in surgery so the bottom line is if you can do rehab at home DO IT !!!!!!

  30. Jason Rego says:

    Wages in general .. for all jobs across the board, should go up. Wages should .. or i should say, “should have” .. gone hand in hand with inflatation. If the cost of living goes up and continues to go up like it has over the years, wages should do the same. How can people afford to live. This country is not what it use to be. The American dream is DEAD!! it is about American Greed. Either raise wages or lower cost of living .. i am not a genius nor do i have the ability to know how to do either, but, either one of those is the answer. People work hard .. some 40+ hours a week and can barely make enough to pay all their bills and feed their kids. THEN you have the whole issue of forcing people to purchase health insurance (ObamaBS) or fine them!! It is just another ingredient in the recipe for ramming this country into a neverending hole that it is already in. I have learned of some people that do not work and live better than some that do .. HOW?????? There is a serious problem here. And by the way .. if anyone does not like my comment keep it to yourself .. my view is just as good as everyone elses, but, i would assume more would agree with me than not. It felt good to vent about reality

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