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Palm Coast Again Pitches New City Hall, No Referendum, as Chamber Orchestrates Support

| November 12, 2013

An artist's rendering of the proposed Palm Coast City Hall at Town Center.

An artist’s rendering of the proposed Palm Coast City Hall at Town Center.

By the sounds of it Tuesday you’d have thought the Palm Coast City Council had once again made up its mind to build a new city hall.

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Here was an architecture firm—Orlando’s C.T. Hsu and Associates, best known for designing the Amway Center where the Magic play–already picked out showing the sort of “modest” building it had in mind for Palm Coast. Here was the Gilbane Building Company, the Providence, R.I.-based construction firm, speaking of guaranteeing a “maximum price” to deliver a two-story, 32,000 square foot building for $9.1 million, including parking, landscaping, furniture.

And here was Chris Quinn, the city’s finance director, outlining the financing plan for the new building, and reminding the council that the city spent $1.4 million in rent for its facilities since 2008, and is looking at spending the same amount over the next five years if it were to keep renting. The city spends roughly $20,000 a month to rent its offices at City Marketplace along Cypress Edge. “It’s not a small amount,” Quinn said. “The only thing we have to show for that like anybody who rents is a box of rent receipts.” And here was the city’s Beau Falgout, the senior planner, describing how design would occur in January 2014, construction would end in September 2015, and the city would move in the following month.

The council of course had taken no such decision. It had merely directed its administration in July to prepare a set options so the council could decide whether it should keep renting its offices at City Marketplace or build a city hall of its own. Missing from Tuesday’s discussion is any mention of what it would cost to renew the lease at City Marketplace.

But come next Tuesday, the council may be voting on whether to go ahead with the city hall project, though it may just as well limit itself to hearing public comments on the idea. Judging from this morning’s discussion, two council members are clearly in favor (Bill Lewis and Jason DeLorenzo), Mayor Jon Netts favored it, while Bill McGuire and Dave Ferguson were not committed. McGuire was the most skeptical, but not necessarily because he is opposed to the idea so much as he cautioned his colleagues about an inevitable public backlash, absent better PR.

City Manager Jim Landon left no doubt about his wish this morning: he choreographed Tuesday’s presentation to make continued renting look like a foolish choice, down to his warning that “we need to be able to act quickly” to take advantage of favorable interest rates. Landon had said the same thing in 2010 and 2011, when he pushed a $10 million city hall proposal that the council finally derailed in the face of staunch public opposition. At the time, Mayor Jon Netts had initially favored the project, then opposed it, absent a referendum.

The administration has no plan to hold a referendum on this newest proposal, arguing that it doesn’t need to, since the city will not be borrowing money to finance it. It would use $5.8 million from cash owed the city’s general fund by the Town Center redevelopment zone (the Community Redevelopment Area), $1.1 million in building permit dollars, and $2.2 million in future revenue from the Town Center CRA, where the city hall would be located.

“We’re not taking away from other projects to pay for this project,” Landon said. McGuire didn’t buy that line of thinking, since it holds true only in so far as the council would be choosing not to develop other projects that it could very well spend this money on.

Bill McGuire. (© FlaglerLive) palm coast city council

Bill McGuire. (© FlaglerLive)

“What else could this money be used other than to build a city hall?” McGuire said.

“City Council could appropriate those funds for anything the council wishes,” Quinn said.

“We just raised the utility fee considerably within the last year and they’re going to be hit again,” McGuire said, wondering whether it would be possible to use some of the $6 million to prevent utility rates from going up as steeply.

“You’re not going to affect the current rates. Anything you might do is add to the pot for future capital projects,” Quinn said.

Still, McGuire persisted: why not preserve the money to use for other public projects that might be needed in the future? Quinn said a new city hall would eliminate rent payments, thus saving that expense. Netts asked how long it would take the city to recoup the money it would spend on a new city hall, versus renting, at current renting rates. Twenty years, Netts was told, though in reality a $9 million city hall would work out to 36 years, if annual payments are $250,000.

McGuire again returned to his question, asking two more times what would be done with the money if it were not spent on a city hall until Landon finally said it’d be spent on other capital project priorities. But Landon and Quinn described the possibility of a city hall financed under current terms as “a unique opportunity.”


Council members have been unable to overcome public opposition to a new city hall since 2005, when more than 80 percent of voters rejected one such proposal in a referendum. This time, however, the council has the orchestrated support of the Flagler County Chamber of Commerce and the Palm Coast Observer, who together are planning a concerted campaign to persuade council members to go for it. The Observer is running an editorial Thursday supporting the idea, and the chamber, in a letter to its executive board members sent Friday, is urging members to send emails to council members and to the Observer showing their support. As of Monday afternoon, Observer Publisher John Walsh said he’d received five such letters.

Walsh serves on the chamber task force that studied the city hall idea and said he and the chamber concluded that supporting a new city hall was important for three reasons: Owning is better than renting; the project can be done without raising taxes; and it would be good for economic development.

Palm Coast would work with Orlando's C.T. Hsu and Associates, the architecture firm, which  recently designed the Winter Garden City Hall, above. (C.T. Hsu and Associates)

Palm Coast would work with Orlando’s C.T. Hsu and Associates, the architecture firm, which recently designed the Winter Garden City Hall, above. (C.T. Hsu and Associates)

“We met twice and we created a list, pro and con,” Walsh said in an interview Monday, “and we filled the page on pro, and the cons that we listed didn’t have any facts. It was all emotional.” And, he added, “selfishly, positive economic development gives me an opportunity to sell more ads.” Walsh had met with Michael Chiumento, the lawyer whose firm’s offices neighbor the potential location of the new city hall in Town Center, Milissa Holland, the former county commissioner, and McGuire to discuss the matter. McGuire remained skeptical. Holland (now a lobbyist with still-close connections to the council members) and Chiumento are behind it.

Friday, the Chamber of Commerce’s business affairs committee formalized its stance. “This is an important issue for Palm Coast and an opportunity to show that the Chamber has the ability to mobilize support from the business community when it matters,” Chamber President Rebecca DeLorenzo wrote board members. “I hope you will join us however you can. Please encourage your friends, family, staff and colleagues to do the same.”

At the end of the nearly 90-minute discussion Tuesday, McGuire remained cautious. “The presentation was excellent, the numbers look good, but I know when I walk out that door, this is going to be a real PR issue, you’d better get your ducks in a row and be ready to sell this to the public,” McGuire told Landon. He recalled the “bad taste” in people’s mouths about previous attempts to sell the idea and once again warning that the public will demand a referendum, even if it’s not legally required—and even if the idea might be “good business sense.”

Palm Coast City Hall Proposal, November 2013

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60 Responses for “Palm Coast Again Pitches New City Hall, No Referendum, as Chamber Orchestrates Support”

  1. Rob says:

    Since when can you believe what Landon and his staff try to sell? Why do you think Landon’s budget increase proposal with a corresponding tax increase was killed? A sight impaired person could have seen this coming.
    Look at their history: Bull Dog Drive, Old Kings Road, Tennis Center, and the Golf Course. If one listens to them we only have to go to the end of the rainbow and the pot of platinum will be there for the taking. They are all upside.
    Looks like a done deal. The mayor has been pushing this from day one. He doesn’t care what the voters say he is done after this term, thankfully. Anything construction related DeLorenzo is in, no matter what the circumstances. A builder’s lobbyist tied to the Chamber of Commerce. Even if Lewis votes it down, which he won’t, I am pretty sure he won’t be around next term. That leaves potentially two council members who would vote no. So far only one seems to be thinking with a clear head.

    Somebody somehow send these jokers packing as soon as their terms are up.

    And Chiumento has his hands in it so beware.

  2. cali says:

    So the voters have spoken twice and said a resounding NO!!!! The City wants to do what it wants and then with out using ANY LOCAL BUSINESSES! Typical Palm Coast! We have great architects here in our own county as well as great builders–while I realize a home builder may not be certified to build a City Hall, they should be given the opportunity to bid or recommend someone capable. This is absurd–perhaps the building of a NEW CITY HALL should be tied directly to the amount of NEW INDUSTRY JOBS that pay more than $8-$12 per hour and have paid or partially paid health benefits along with sick, and vacation time.

    • Its a lady says:

      Why is Palm Coast using outside builders or contracting firms to do business when Palm Coast is one of the highest in unemployment around. And instead of building a new City Hall we don’t need they should be focusing on public transportation. Many folks have little or no trandportation and it would certainly cut down on the traffic problems in the area.

  3. A.S.F. says:

    It does not surprise me in the least that the Chamber of Commerce has their hands in this. They lobby for their special business connections (and not necessarily the small businessman who really needs and deserves the support.) Here is the part of “NO” that most of the people in this council and their close allies don’t understand: If they want it and they think it’s a good idea, then everyone else who disagrees with them is either an obstructionist or an idiot that they have to pretend to hear out while continuing to act on their plans,whether they do do in the open or behind closed doors. I wish we had the money so we could sue or go for an injunction to stop this project until and unless a special referendum was held that would determine whether the public was willing to go forward with this project.

    • Genie says:

      @ ASF — Good points. I’m with you. The public should ALWAYS HAVE THE RIGHT to a referendum vote. This Manager has shown us he cannot be trusted.

  4. Marissa says:

    I knew it! NO! No! No! Let the people vote for it instead of shoving it down our throat. Where’s the jobs you promised.

    • John Lincks says:

      These politicians have a highly exaggerated sense of self importance. I suggest that some city owned property which may be currently used by non-taxpaying squatters,drunkards, or illegal aliens instead be cleared and as many as needed commercial trailers [ or shipping containers as the military use ] be placed in use for these “political class” people to ply their craft of “governing”.Enough of the palatial structures, and endless disregard of the taxpaying peoples’ wishes!

  5. tom jack says:

    So it doesn’t matter what the people of Palm Coast want or don’t want. Landon is going to get what he want’s and has wanted since he got here, a new building from which to reign over his subjects. Landon is the one who foolishly sold the old city hall, I guess in his mind an older building just wasn’t good enough for his royal highness to use. If the council vote’s for a new building without input from the citizen’s who elect and pay them. they should ALL be turned out of office with recall petitions. Remember the citizens who pay the bill have turned down this fiasco twice, but apparently his royal assness doesn’t care what the lowly citizens want as long as he can get what he beleaves he deserves at tax payer expense of coarse. Time for this egomaniac to be put out of office and shown the unemployment line, as have been the thousands of people by his policies leading to the highest unemployment rate in Florida.

  6. EYEONFLAGLER says:

    Lets get this done! it’s about time that we had a city hall to be proud of , stop paying rent, work more eficient, and have a place that will in the town center where it should be.
    kudos to the mayor for not giving up.

  7. Mahler Walter says:

    The most desirable places to live have a vision for the future and Palm Coast should look ahead and plan for infrastructure that we can all be proud of. This proposal for a new city hall looks like it will be something we can all be proud of and we should support it. If we are penny wise and pound foolish we will regret it.

    • A.S.F. says:

      @Mahler Walter–You need the pennies to pay for it now and the people have already made it quite clear that they don’t have those pennies to spare. Your argument is the same put forward years ago by the developers and “planners” of the Town Center. That project, to any outsider looking at it now, appears to be nothing so much as a ghost town. It sits there like a monument to grandiosity. We should have learned from that–Well, some of us have. But, apparently, some parties, blinded by greed, ego and/or special interests, have not. I would not count so much on the gullibility of the public, if I were you. Your “vision for the future” is too expensive a proposition for us now.

  8. Will says:

    I’m pleased that the new City Hall idea is moving forward. The 2005 vote is ancient history – not the same electorate now and the issues are different. Luckily interest rates are still fairly low.

    This is a win/win for the community. Council: Illegitimi non carborundum.

  9. From the cheap seats says:

    Bad location for City Hall, in the shadow of the Chiumento building. First, profitting from the County purchase of the old hospital to covert to a jail-we’ll pay for that forever. Now City Council wants to further enrich by placing City Hall next door. If the location wasn’t pre-determined, would the Observer and Chamber still be enamored? Why not look at who is actually using City Hall and find a site based on THEIR needs instead of the priviledged few?

  10. blondee says:

    EYEONFLAGLER: We don’t actually need a city hall to be proud of, we need to be proud of the people working INSIDE city hall. That’s not happening any time soon, since they don’t seem to care about the concerns of their constituents.

  11. confidential says:

    One of the very urgent things we need in Palm Coast is our ordinances enforced, as the given reason of strain budget cuts, affects enforcement.
    In our saltwater canals the city needs to enforce owners to repair their seawalls that are collapsing into the canals adding more silt and further endangering the navigability of the saltwater canals where a home pays 3 and 4 times the taxes that in any other location and there is non enforcement against littering, and collapsing seawalls repairs/rebuilding. That is infrastructure failing creating also an unsightly eyesore for anyone in the waterways kayaking, boating or paddling and also backing up our canals with soil affecting navigability. We have 300 miles of canals in this city and owners need to be enforced to repair their seawalls.
    We do not have also proper sewer plants for Palm Coast, as a matter of fact only one last I knew, with all this growth our old sewer lift stations like the one in Club House Drive near PC Parkway have to be pumped out on rainy days by tank trucks, day and night with the annoying noise, so the neighbors around Club House and PC Parkway do not get sewage back up on their houses.
    In our neighborhoods city needs to enforce ordinance on loony owners that wrap their supposedly lawn light pole with aluminum foil and no light bulb on top. and letters on the façade of their homes painted permanently from bottom to top in red identifying their favorite team and accumulation of wood burning in their front lawns or unapproved junkyard businesses In open view out of their always open garages for all us in the community to enjoy, the numerous house hold items accumulated all around the residence.
    We can’t afford to maintain the existing infrastructure and they want to build more (city hall) and then the maintenance, where the money will come from?
    Do we want to copy BOCC that can barely pay for the maintenance of their Taj Mahal now? We are still paying in our home taxes for that BOCC waste.
    Why don’t we wait for a better economy and save the money first and then spend it..? Otherwise city spends first and then raise taxes a la BOCC? Use common sense…as is not yours, but the people’s money.

  12. downinthelab says:

    Only thing missing from the artist’s rendering is the throngs of unhappy taxpayers who will be gathered out front.

  13. Genie says:

    What do we have to do to get rid of this City Manager, this Mayor and change our city government to a working mayor?

    This Manager does what he pleases, whether it’s legal or not, and then tries to shove it down our throats. Aren’t we still out the millions stolen from our storm water funds by this man and let to a couple of developers? That was public money.

    Why isn’t he in jail?

  14. PCer says:

    Build it!!! So much better to own it then to continue to rent. Nobody is profiting from renting except the owners of CityWalk, which are falling apart. Build it in Town Center and more businesses will come to fill up the empty spaces. While building, start attracting some quality upscale shops and bring back the builders.

    • A.S.F. says:

      PCer says–“Build it in Town Center and more businesses will come to fill up the empty spaces.” Can we hold you to that? Seems like we have heard that line of reasoning before used as a rationalize to build doubtful projects. You speak as though the presence of a shiny new building that has a City Hall sign on it will guarantee the regeneration of the entire area around it.

    • Listen to he people says:

      Renting is what you have to do until you can afford to buy/own! When we are renting we aren’t paying for landscaping, maintenance and insurance.

    • Genie says:

      @ PCer: Unfortunately it is likely now that the only new building at Town Center now will be a government building.

      We now have Section 8 housing in the middle of Town Center. Look up the laws on the placement of Section 8 housing. This one is in clear violation, purely to save the developer’s hide and $$$$$$.

      THAT just ended the possibility of new business wanting to come to Town Center. There will never be anything high end there because we must pay off our landowners and developers in this city.

  15. Will says:

    Let’s suppose you moved here when Palm Coast was mostly on Paper in ITT’s earliest office. Let’s suppose you worked hard to build the community where you had moved for your family to live. Suppose too that in the ups and downs of business, over the years, that you did fairly well, and you reinvested in the growth of your community, and as a result many others who lived or moved here had better lives. Suppose too that you invested well in some areas, and maybe not in others, believing that in the LONG term, that your investments would come to fruition. In many towns and cities, the early settlers would be thanked and praised for their imagination and efforts. If you did well while others did well too (rising tide floats all boats) would that be so bad?

    Maybe some of the people who are griping about something every time this town tries to move forward need to take a deep breath and rethink what they’re griping about. Sure, we need to be cost efficient and protect the environment, but if we go forward and people who built the infrastructure make a reasonable profit for their efforts, isn’t that the American Way?

  16. Richard Hamilton says:

    I just re-read the plan on the City’s website “Prosperity 2021 Economic Development Plan”. It is a pretty good statement of needs, but I couldn’t find any reference to a City Hall being one of those needs. Some plans for “Downtown” as one of several Commercial Areas, but also for several other areas and neighborhoods. Also plenty of needs for other capital outlays that could easily use the money being talked about here. The 2021 plan has a good statement of the priorities that businesses use to decide where to move and, of course, a fancy City Hall is nowhere amongst those. An efficient government is, but I have seen no study that says the proposed City Hall will do anything to improve the provision of services to businesses or residents. Personally I think it would be better to decentralize many of the services into neighborhood centers, much along the lines of the Tax Collector’s satellite office in Palm Coast, and use technology to improve work flow between the smaller offices. We already have one Taj Mahal in Flagler. Another will be superfluous.

  17. Sloop John B says:

    The building looks more like the Reichstag befitting the little Hitler’s that will rule us without a vote.

  18. Diana L says:

    So if you don’t like what these people are doing in office, vote them out. I love all the people that complain and then go to the polls and vote for them.

  19. real people says:

    Good idea I am all for it.

  20. dogman says:

    THESE MORONS HAVE BIG BALLS TIME TO REMOVE THEM LETS GET WITH IT PALM COAST
    CANT WAIT FOR ELECTION TIME BIG CHANGES ARE COMING
    BYE YOU MONEY GRUBBING HOBOKENS…..

  21. Donna Heiss says:

    Oh how I didn’t want to respond to this but I can’t find the duct tape for my fingers.

    I have several questions, however I will only ask a few. Did the city suddenly find 10 million dollars for construction? It will not come in on budget at 9.1 million. Nothing ever does. The designers of the Amway Center? Really?

    What about the 10 million for refurbishing the old hospital mistake? Did the county find some hidden money?

    New radio system? Another 10 million. Has someone found that money yet? It must be hiding somewhere.

    There is also the jail to be added at, lets say 10 million. That seems to be the going rate for everything.

    Ok, so to recap. 40 million at the very least, the chamber is behind it as is Mr. Walsh, ( Palm Coast Observer). Why? Huge question there.

    I believe the chamber should have no affiliation with any city project. There is a conflict of interest there. City council member Mr. Jason DeLorenzo married to Chamber President Mrs. Rebecca DeLorenzo. Do not take this personally. It’s business and bad business at that.

    Funny how the County and City can come up with major amounts of money for projects such as these, yet we cannot feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the cold or get help for the mentally unstable.

    Do we need a building to be “proud” of? Is that who we have become? We need people to be proud of who work for the betterment of the community and do it for nothing in return.

    Imagine a city and county working together to make sure families stay fed, the homeless have a bed and are kept warm, the children have the best possible educations. We as a community have a responsibility to people. Not to buildings. Where the hell has compassion and common sense gone?

    And many wonder why I no longer care about politics. I think that answer is quite clear.

    As always, this is in my opinion only and not that of anyone affiliated with me.

    • Genie says:

      @ Donna Heiss — Standing ovation for you! Glad you didn’t find that tape.

    • DMDLiberty says:

      We all agree on one thing. Stop wasting our money paying rent! We could use that $250,000 dollars a year to do the things you discussed. I vote we take that $250,000/yr and save it or help families get jobs to support themselves.

    • Brad West says:

      What gets missed in this is the fact that the solution for those in need is an improved local economy with long-term sustainable growth. The philosophy to keep things strictly as they are and think that assistance will never run out without local growth is irresponsible.

      Town Center and it’s development is an investment in that growth that could benefit those same families now and in the future by providing a means for them. City Hall can help move that development forward. It is far more than strictly shopping there and ha the potential to fill the void between St. Augustine and Daytona to make this area a true destination area. That brings a lot of business and tax dollars to the area.

      I don’t agree Donna. We need to be a little more open-minded and realize sometimes you have to spend some to make a lot to meet larger goals. This is a good thing, and I support it moving forward.

      One last thing, I hear a lot of grumblings that our local government is this and that. They are not a monarchy. You do have control by going out and voting when offered the opportunity. With that said, why with so much wailing do we have such drastically low voter turnout rates? Less than 300 people of over 1500 registered voters recently showed up for a vote in Bunnell. Less the 10% showed up for our last Palm Coast Mayoral election. Local matters and it effects everyone. At our current voting levels, no one has any real leg to stand on and say they think our leadership is poor. We’re actually allowing local special interest groups the very real opportunity to run things that impact everyone’s lives far more than anything that transpires in Washington D.C.

  22. Lin says:

    How about using the food truck idea
    A mobile city hall?
    Then we wouldn’t need our council and their summits with business owners & lobbyists

  23. Listen to he people says:

    The people already spoke on this and it is clear that we don’t want a new City Hall. Landon and his minions can try to sell the council anything, but in all of this Landon failed to let the council know that renting now is still prevents us from insurance, maintenance, and landscaping of a city hall….that is saving us money! Make do with what we have until we can afford to do otherwise. This is a topic that needs to be put to bed until the voters vote on it again! NO,NO,NO, NO…HELL NO!! Fire Landon and get someone who cares about our money and the way it is spent, his salary over a period of years would be a good handsome chunk to put towards a City Hall.

  24. fruitcake says:

    why don’t you BUY the building-Plaza your currently renting?
    it’s in the middle of town…it has plenty of parking and the bank that owns it
    would love to sell it to us at a discounted price!

  25. Charles Gardner says:

    I probably missed it, which Tract in Town Center would be the site for city hall?

  26. Common Sense says:

    The arrogance of this City Council and Mr. Landon is incredible.

    Don’t want to pay rent? How much would it cost to purchase the existing Market Place location, right in the middle of town? How much could we save in moving costs?

    We will vote them out next time.

  27. Betsy says:

    I smell more government waste!!!! Pee yew!!

  28. Rocky R. says:

    I’m baffled as to why the citizens of Palm Coast balk at any proposed changes in.. well, anything?

    Why do the citizens not want a city hall? Why do the citizens complain and cry “IT’S NOT FAIR” when the city is trying only to further it’s infrastructure?

    Tell me, what other city besides Palm Coast have you been to that doesn’t have it’s own dedicated city hall building or police department?

    I guess our city is just a tad ass-backwards..

  29. jadobi says:

    Simple solution: Put it up for one last vote. If it is voted down, forget it until the economy has rebounded and when Town Center has more occupants.

    If in fact it is voted down, vote out the next person who brings it up again.

    This should have been thought about when Palm Coast incorporated.

    Has anyone considered municipal bonds?

  30. Anonymous says:

    The city council is going to build it even though the voters of Palm Coast have said NO more than once!!!!!

  31. confidential says:

    “A building City Hall to be proud off”…Just a laughable, pathetic and feudal statement in a county with over 12% unemployment and the unemployed, needy, destitute and homeless having to be barely sustained by our local organizations like the one’s of compassionate Pastors Gardner and Silano (God Bless Them) in Bunnell. Meanwhile we have former BOCC Member become new lobbyist now driving her Lexus Hybrid and looking for office space to help gain more of our hard earned taxes for the elite, FCCOC, and the local Observer also lobbying hard to gain control spending more of our hard earned taxes getting us in loans we can’t afford and only conducive to more tax increases!! Nothing to be proud of!!

  32. DMDLiberty says:

    OWN RATHER THAN WASTE $$$ ON RENT:

    I don’t know why there is so much vitriol on this issue other than its location. No matter what anyone says, all the people on this post agree on one thing…Stop wasting our money on rent and own. This is about the efficient use of our tax dollar and the first decision to be made is own rather than rent. Demand the City Council to stop wasting our dollars on rent.

    • A.S.F. says:

      DMDLiberty says–“No matter what anyone says, all the people on this post agree on one thing…Stop wasting our money on rent and own.” REALLY??? ALL the people on this post agree with that? Are you reading the same comments I am reading? I now am getting a better picture of what is actually going on here. Certain factions who want this City Hall to be built, taxpayer approval be damned. They are literally only willing to hear what they want to hear…Therefore, there IS no discussion to be had because EVERYONE agrees with them (whether they actually do or not.) THAT reasoning is narcissistic to the extreme. If you want people to actually start listening to any valid points you may have to make, you might want to develop your listening and communication skills. Otherwise, it’s all just hot empty air and promises to the rest of us…Something the council and the chamber will go ahead and try to do, no matter what.

  33. Harley dude says:

    Reminds me of the Pharaohs building a pyramid to honor themselves.

  34. DMD Liberty says:

    According to the City, if they have spent $1.37M dollars in the past 6 years, another $1.44M through 2019, and another $1.51M between 2019 and 20124…TOTAL = $4,320,000.00 (aka ” a waste of our money”)

    I cant believe anyone on this post would even dare to argue that spending $4,320,000.00 on rent, not owning anything, and making some out of town developer rich is anything but a big waste of our dollars. Where is the tea party when you need them. Other than color, location, and furniture, why is anyone against demanding that the City stop wasting our money!!!

    • Genie says:

      @DMD – Because it’s OUR MONEY, that’s why and we say NO. This city is not a bottomless pit. The Manager steals money from our water fund (AGAINST THE LAW), makes big promises about Town Center. Then he puts Section 8 housing there, ILLEGALLY.

      Town Center will never develop. This Manager is not trustworthy and neither is the Council.

      THAT’S WHY.

  35. A.S.F. says:

    …You do realize, don’t you, that the more you try to ram this through, the worse it looks?

  36. fruitcake says:

    Actually they haven’t been trowing our money away on rent…the rent pays for the space they occupy PLUS
    upkeep…maintenance. repairs ..landscaping costs etc etc… If they had their OWN building after 5-10 years they will begin telling us its too small…needs upgrades and or tear down…..they will never be happy spending our tax dollars one way or another.

  37. Crusty Old Salt says:

    While this website is a good place too vent, the only effective means of blocking a new City Hall at this time in the proposed location is to show up at the Council mtg. in force and voice your opinion! You can bet the Chamber will have their cheerleaders there.

  38. DMD Liberty says:

    @ASF: Answer one question at a time (1) do you agree that the City must stop wasting $250,000/yr on rent making some out of town developer rich ($4.32M by 2024) and, in the alternative own our facility. This blog can debate what happens next later. The tea party in us believe in stopping government waste…dont we?

  39. Joe says:

    @Rocky R, they had a city hall, they brokered a bad deal with PCD, the only way I would vote for a city hall is if Netts and Landon resign!!!

  40. BIG JOHN says:

    First the Taj Mahal and now the Palace of Versailles. Off with their heads!

  41. DMDLiberty says:

    @ all who post on this site:

    Honestly answer one question at a time (1) do you agree that the City must stop wasting $250,000/yr on rent making some out of town developer rich ($4.32M by 2024) and, in the alternative own our facility. Answer honestly.

    Lets leave the dethroning of the Mayor and the Manager to a later date.

    This blog can debate what happens next later. The tea party in all of us believe in stopping government waste…dont we?

  42. From the cheap seats says:

    DMDLiberty- Which out of town developer do you think is going to get rich? The one who is currently getting the rent check or the ones who own Town Center and the Chiumento building? Wrong place for a City Hall, which is being used as a prop to bail out a falled project (Town Center). City has already spent $8million on Old Kings Rd., which should have been Town Center obligation. If City Hall goes in this location, city will continue to spend your tax dollars bailing out that project.

    I would gladly continue to pay rent for a City Hall and spend tax dollars on sidewalks in Seminole Woods where 3 people were killed. If you think this City Manager cares about anything besides his resume, you are wrong. Council doesn’t know how to get the genie back in the bottle.

  43. Concerned says:

    If big shot law firms like Chiumento (at least by this town’s standards) are supporting a new city hall, I COMPLETELY OPPOSE IT! Something is rotten in the State of Denmark! There’s no way these guys would be so ardently supporting this folly if it wasn’t enriching them. I SAY NO!

  44. biker says:

    Wow the rhetoric and misinformation is reaching astounding proportions on this one. Number one for all the newbys and voters with poor memories. Not one voter in palm coast ever voted no as to whether or not a city hall should be built. Not one!!
    The vote (one) that has become the mantle of this anti-city hall group was for funding of bonds to build community centers in addition to a city hall. The current plan, involves no funding of bonds, and no tax increases. What it does involve is as city hall that is paid for through car funds and the end of throwing away rent money with nothing to show for it in the end. Soo… Beyond all the misinformation and rhetoric … What are the rational reasons for not building a city hall??

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