No Bull, No Fluff, No Smudges
Your news source for
Flagler, Florida and Beyond

0.2% Stupor: Protecting 350,000 Millionaires At the Expense of 160 Million Workers

| December 2, 2011

Economists might not get it. (Aaron Bauer)

FlaglerLive Editor Pierre Tristam’s weekly commentaries are broadcast on WNZF on Fridays just after 9 a.m. Here’s this week’s.

In 2001, President Bush pushed through Congress the largest tax cut in the nation’s history, even though most of it wasn’t needed, there wasn’t money to pay for it and the nation was almost $6 trillion in debt. Economic growth would pay for it, Bush claimed. It didn’t. The tax cut opened gaping budget deficits we still haven’t found a way to close.

Pierre Tristam FlaglerLive editor

Pierre Tristam

The Live Column

Two years later Bush pushed through another massive tax cut, this one for rich investors. There was no money to pay for it. Economic growth would do the trick, he claimed. It didn’t. Between his two unnecessary tax cuts and his three useless wars—you know, the one in Iraq, the one in Afghanistan and the so-called war on terror—the debt in the Bush years doubled to $11 trillion, outstripping even the record-spending years of that other fiscal conservative, Ronald Reagan.

Last December, President Obama joined the club. Republicans in Congress, on whom you can always rely for compassion toward the less fortunate, didn’t want to extend unemployment benefits for 15 million people. Obama didn’t think it responsible not to. The only way Republicans agreed to go along was in exchange for two more tax cuts: a reduction in the Social Security tax everyone pays, and an extension of the Bush tax cuts for two more years. There was no money to pay for either, and this time no one claimed there would be.

Now, here we are again. Obama is looking to extend unemployment benefits one more time, for the 13 million-some people still out of work, and to extend that payroll tax for 160 million Americans. There really is no need for that payroll tax. (Just as there was no need for either Bush tax cut then or now.) But there is a great need for more unemployment benefits. And this time Democrats have a way to pay for both. They’d increases taxes very modestly on 350,000 millionaires. Congressional Republicans are opposed. They’ve never objected to letting tax cuts add mountains of debt in the past. Now they’re objecting to a tax cut that would actually be paid for, just to protect the richest of the rich, the only class to have massively increased its wealth in the last generation.

This isn’t the 1 percent holding the 99 percent hostage. It’s the 0.2 percent holding the 99.8 percent hostage to a no-tax ideology more destructive to this country than any of the wars and Islamic terrorists it’s faced in the last 10 years.

There’s a very simple way to ensure that this country goes the way of old, bankrupt empires, and it doesn’t take flying planes into building or suckering the world’s mightiest military into pointless wars halfway around the globe. All it takes, and you can do in the comfort of your own cozy little precinct, is voting Republican.

Print Friendly

50 Responses for “0.2% Stupor: Protecting 350,000 Millionaires At the Expense of 160 Million Workers”

  1. Shawn says:

    Wow another liberal paper biased paper….Democrats have a way to pay bout NAFTA, FANNIE and FREDDIE…HMM…Those were Democrat Ideas….

  2. Kip Durocher says:

    Excellent ~ 100% on point
    And did not require 10 pages.
    Every one in the world is concerned with global warming ~ except the “junk science” Republican crowd.

  3. Fred Peterson via Facebook says:

    Trickle-down hasnt worked yet, but they keep pushing it, Why are some people so dumb? They have had the lowest tax rates in History and the biggest profits in History, and all the jobs went to China. Face it, THey are Traitors to the American dream, They Dont want you, Mr and Mrs Middle Calss, You are a burden, dont you see that they are Privliged humansThe definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result

    • Layla says:

      That will be a big mistake because we are still the tax base in this country.

      How about some trickle down vote em out?

  4. Good points says:

    I’ll never agree to any sort of generalizations, such as being called a democrat or a republican, but I can definitely agree that the Republican-side of spending hasn’t been entirely responsible in the last 10 years. I thought the article made a good point, but it’s sad that someone can choose sides before hearing each and every issue. Anyone who makes up their mind before knowing the issue is showing little to no intelligence. It’s sad to say, but both sides seem incompetent.

    The fact that our decision makers are automatically put on opposing sides (with the majority of decisions swaying with the numbers of whichever unintelligent people we vote in) is ridiculous. Our government needs to change from the ground up, but nothing will change if we keep identifying with ludicrous titles like “Democrat” and “Republican.”

  5. Layla says:

    Kip, the scientific community has not been able to debate the global warming issue. It has been handed to us by a select few.

    Let’s see what the entire community of experts says, shall we?

  6. Layla says:

    350,000 millionaires are going to save us? You must be kidding….. The ONLY way to salvage this situation is to STOP SPENDING, I don’t care who’s side you’re on.

    Until Washington stops spending/bailing out like drunken sailors (my apologies to the United States Navy), things are not going to change.

    We need to get real and stop the party politics. It’s killing us.

    Show up on election day and vote the United States Congress OUT.

    • Laffer Curve says:

      We do not have a revenue problem in this country, we have a spending problem. The government takes in plenty of resources now but they have no restraint in their spending. EVERYONE, including the .2% is overtaxed already. We need a balanced budget amendment to the constitution now because neither the Left or the Right can produce a balanced budget. If we taxed the top 5% at 100% it still would not make a dent in the deficit. This is about class envy, not math.

    • Gary says:

      And replace them with what?? Unless campaign finance laws are changed, and lobbying is outlawed, it will be “meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” We are headed to revolution to get real change. They must be physically removed to the street.

  7. JL says:

    Well I “used to be” a Republican. Now I refuse to be labeled either party. They both disgust me. The Republicans want to make the rich richer, and the Democrats want to give it all away to people who don’t want to work. (I’m not talking about those that are trully unemployed due to no jobs) I’m talking about those that prefer to live on welfare. You know the ones, they generally are found in the bigger cities where so many freebies are given out. Make people work for those welfare checks. They can do community service. And tax the wealthy. They can spare it.
    But most importantly, they need to get along, start agreeing a little more, and work to make this country great again. I’m sick of their bickering. Both sides act like children anymore. And they continue to ignore the 99.% out there paying their salaries.

  8. Terry Potter says:

    A one-eyed, massively over-simplified, “them & us” attitude, Pierre.

    It’s not about rich vs poor, taxes vs benefits, democrats vs republicans: it’s about an out of control government that spends like a drunken college kid with his mother’s credit card.

    We are ALL in the same boat. We are all over taxed. Our taxes are largely WASTED on dumb-ass government programs that don’t work, or ripped off because of lack of government oversight of OUR hard-earned cash.

    Both republicans and democrats ought to be ashamed of the way they have mismanaged our economy and our country, and of the way they have a different set of rules and standards for themselves, while making us slaves to them and their failed policies. Isn’t this what the war for independence was about?

    You and others stirring the pot by pitting the poor against the rich doesn’t help. All that does is incite the kinds of riots and bad behavior that you are beginning to see, not just in ruined socialist countries, but here in what was once the greatest economy/country in the world. Sadly, it will not be for long.

    Instead, we, as citizens, should unite against all congress and yet another incompetent administration, and fire the lot of them, and start over. There are a few good men out there… unfortunately libertarianism (less government interference in our lives) is not well understood and therefore not popular.

    Oh for a private island…

    • Pierre Tristam says:

      Terry, I might take you more seriously if you backed up your ideas with something more than Foxified talking points, like evidence. Particularly when what evidence there is contradicts you. Overtaxed? Seriously? You just paid your property tax bill, didn’t you? $2,100 on your primary home, the one you have that generous $50,000 exemption on. That’s virtually half the taxes you paid on it just five years ago. Half. And you’re complaining about being overtaxed? Are you kidding me? By the way your beachside home’s taxes are $100 less than mine, for a home in Palm Coast’s entirely unglamorous P section. My only complaint is that my taxes are too damn low, and I pay the price for it every day when I face the quality of my daughter’s education. Our schools are so poorly funded we might as well be a banana republic at this point. I’ve always considered myself ridiculously, pathetically undertaxed, even more so since that irresponsible 2001 cut.

      And when’s the last time you paid a state income tax? For that matter how much federal taxes are you really paying, given all those middle-class welfare benefits you surely eat up–I mean your mortgage interest deduction, the fattest middle-class giveaway there is (next to untaxed health insurance premiums), which I assume you take advantage of on your primary and two secondary properties too. Not to mention the deduction for other local taxes you can take in your federal filing, property taxes included. You live in one of the lowest-taxed states in the nation, in one of the lowest taxed western nations on the planet, subsequent to the massive tax cuts of 2001, 2003 and the entirely idiotic tax cut of 2009, not to mention Florida’s nearly annual tax cuts during its own Bush years, and you’re still regurgitating those tired bits about high taxes? Come on Terry, Sean’s and Rush’s and Bill’s latest cliches don’t an argument make. Sorry to lay it all out this way, but ideological parroting is to me the modern equivalent of the Medieval church’s command-and-control superstitions, great to keep the masses believing in fairy tales but terrible on the empirical stomach.

      No dispute about our terrible congressional representation, but you’re oversimplifying by putting them all, or us all, in one boat. When a minority of 41 Senate ideologues can hold the entire nation hostage to the sort of madness I referred to in this and innumerable other pieces, we’re well past deficiencies of the system and into something pathologically wrong with the way the Senate operates. Throwing them all out sounds good on shout radio, but it’s also meaningless: turnover in Congress in the last decade or so has been unusually high, and spectacularly high in 2006 and 2010, with what results? They’re doing our bidding. In this case, yours more than mine, which was just my point: that no-tax ideology is literally paralyzing and demolishing the country from within.

      Why berate my alleged “them & us” approach only to urge that “we, as citizens, should unite against all congress and yet another incompetent administration,” as if that them is a different them than the other them. There’s no them there. There’s only you and me and a few hundred million voters, half of whom don’t bother. I don’t exactly see you cradling that pot with a cozy, either. But I’ll give you that: stirring it is my job. It’s not being stirred enough, and those “riots” you talk about (what would you have referred to 1776’s revolutionaries as, gentlemen debaters?) are wishful chic protests. We could use a few riots. The real kind. The angry kind. The kind that makes lawmakers quake in their Guccis. We should be so lucky.

      And no, you’re quite right: it’s not about rich and poor. It’s about 350,000 millionaires against virtually everyone else. I like to stick with evidence, my health insurance not being good enough to cover talk radio’s infectious diseases.

      • Terry says:

        I wasn’t going to rebut your response, as no matter what I say it will not change anything. You have your values & opinions–I have mine.

        However, in re-reading it, I must. You have made some sweeping assumptions about me which are totally incorrect. Not only that, but you seem to have made it personal. Let me enlighten you on a few things:

        The envy you have of my home is very misplaced. I came from a working class family and had to leave school before college to earn a living. I got married with $200 to my name. I worked hard, and I worked long hours. I put off having a child until I could afford to raise her. I put myself through college and earned my degree by myself. I took other classes at night school so I could get promotions and climb the corporate ladder. I went without many things because I had the self-discipline and desire to save to better my life. Eventually I was able to own a small business. Through the 90’s I dabbled in real estate and my wife and I renovated homes, managed the awful tenants we sometimes had, cut lawns, fixed toilets, cleaned absconders’ crap, etc. etc. My point is, what I have now I worked hard for, just the same as ANYBODY ELSE could have done, had they chosen to do so. I’m not rich, but I’ can support myself.

        Do I think I’m taxed too much? You bet I do. When I see the widespread abuse of the welfare system that we have today (go ahead–attack that statement–everyone knows it exists), the billions of my tax dollars wasted by governments at all levels as I stated in my first post, their lack of fiscal responsibility and the fraud it allows, it makes me sick.

        By the way, there’s nothing stopping you from paying extra taxes! I bet you don’t. And if you think your child’s education is so bad, just throw more money at it! Hah! The problem is not under-funding; it’s because it is run by the federal government. Argue about that all you want.

        As far as the taxes on my house are concerned, the reason they are half what they were a few years ago is because the value of the property has halved. In fact, property tax rates have gone up some years, but the appraised value has meant less actual dollars in taxes. I can’t believe you are that naive to have missed that point.

        Another incorrect assumption you make of me, which I resent, is that I have been “Foxified”. It seems that whenever someone disagrees with a liberal it’s because they watch Fox news! Ever consider where your biases came from? For the record, I rarely watch TV, and when I watch TV news I watch HLN and BBC World News as much as Fox. And I NEVER watch or listen to O”Reilly, Hannity, Beck, Rush, or the others – they bore me. And I’m not a republican. They’re just as bad as the rest of them. So what box are you going to put me in now?

        Finally, I do not have untaxed health premiums. In fact I have only bare-bones health coverage. To me the “middle class” are the worst-off “class” in America: if you are rich you can pay your own way (and congratulations to you) and if you are poor you live off the money stolen from all those who pay taxes.

        Why is at that when conservative thinkers express their opinion, they are personally attacked, and yet liberals/progressives (whatever label works) feel they can say whatever they want? Could it be because they are intolerant of others’ views?

        You are entitled to your opinion of course, as I am to mine. I know you like to be controversial, but let’s have a discussion without getting personal, OK?

        • Pierre Tristam says:

          Terry, we may be entitled to our opinions, we’re not entitled to whatever facts or generalizations we thoughtlessly throw out there. What bores me is ideological prattling divorced from evidence. I’m all for philosophical differences, and there’s no question we differ on those. Great. I love diversity. But you make claims that are demonstrably false. I demonstrated the fallacy using your own tax circumstances. That’s not getting personal. It’s using evidence you’d be familiar with. Of course it hit close to home. It was intended to. It’s your homes’ property taxes. And of course I knew they fell because of crashing values. I’ve been writing about that for years. But that’s irrelevant: you claimed you were overtaxed. You’ve had nothing but tax cuts since 2001, and significant ones at that. Show me the reverse. You can’t. I never said you enjoyed the perk of tax-free insurance premiums. The parenthetical was about its existence as part of those fat middle class welfare benefits we don’t need. I could care less what background you come from or whether you had to walk uphill both ways in snow to get to school, or whether you’re a Shintoist or a reformed Disneyholuic who got married in a Syrian torture chamber. That’s irrelevant to this discussion. Making foxified old claims (“When I see the widespread abuse of the welfare system that we have today…” and so on) isn’t: if you’re not prepared to back up those claims with more than rhetoric cribbed from the latest shout show, don’t waste my time. That welfare bit of yours by the way is about 25 years out of date, as outdated as Ronald Reagan’s claim of “welfare queens” was patently false, though it got him turbo rhetorical mileage in its day,* just as your “I’m overtaxed” plaints are winning you points with the Hannity brigades (whether you’re a fan of that sophomoric demagogue or not: that, too, is irrelevant, though congratulations on your BBC watching. We’ll have a Courvoisier together to the health of your Europhile tastes).

          This site exists in part as a corrective to what’s corroding this society so effectively–the easy, baseless cliches, the generalizations, the utterly irresponsible arguments built entirely on opinion and zero evidence. I compared the approach to the habits of the Medieval church for a reason. It’s the new superstition. The faith-based ideology relieved of any responsibility to reasoned, backed-up arguments. You responded with more of the same, adding that equally spurious bit about getting personal and the usual throw-in about poor persecuted conservatives who can’t get a word in edgewise, another demonstrably false claim given the freedom you and others have at this site to say what they please (within bounds of civility and, as much as we can, accuracy), not to mention the fact that I was happy to run one of your own columns here a little while back. You are, by the way, welcome to formulate your points in another column if you like, assuming you can back up what you say (an unsatisfied assumption so far). This site also thrives on opposition and debate.

          So please: no bullshit Terry. I love a good argument. I love ideas that contradict mine even more, as long as they go beyond sloppy thinking and intellectual dishonesty. Of course there’s a way. To quote a friend who’s diametrically opposed to me ideologically but comments here very frequently, “If Tip O’Neill and Ronald Reagan could do it, we should be able to do it.”

          (*) Let me not copy your example and make claims I can’t back up. From a Wall Street Journal story published Oct. 11, 2000, referring to Lou Cannon’s biography of Ronald Reagan, The Role of a Lifetime: “While running for president in the late 1970s, Mr. [Ronald] Reagan employed considerable license in his oft-told story of the ‘Chicago welfare queen’ who came to symbolize failings in the poverty program. As Mr. Reagan told it, she had 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards and collected benefits for ‘four, nonexisting deceased husbands.’ Her illegal receipts totaled ‘over $150,000,’ he used to say. According to Mr. Cannon’s book, the real welfare recipient was convicted in 1977 of fraud for using two aliases to collect 23 checks totaling $8,000. Despite the public record in the case, Mr. Reagan continued to tell his faulty version of the story well into his first term.” In other words, Reagan kept lying even after knowing the facts. No wonder he’s a conservative model.

  9. Kip Durocher says:

    Layla~ it has been fully investigated all over the world ~ you just get fed oil industry pr here ~ forget Al Gore

    4 Himalayan nations agree to work together to help each other adapt to climate change

    What is the EU doing on climate change?

    Japan’s Climate Change Initative

    What the Australian australian government is doing.

    Canada’s Action on Climate Change

    I could go on for almost ever. Every other country in the world is very worried.

    • Layla says:

      No Kip they have all signed on to UN initatives.

      I want to hear the debate HERE, IN MY COUNTRY. For decades, Algore has refused to debate this subject with our scientists. Why not? Have they all been bought off by the oil people?

      Show me the evidence of the across the board debate IN THIS COUNTRY. After all, we are the ones who are going to have to pay for it.

      I could list the links debunking this theory, but I won’t waste your time. I believe the people in this country are smart enough to be good stewards of the planet without being forced to with penalty of fines or jail.

      That’s a hard hand I did NOT elect, or support and never will.

  10. Christie 2012 says:

    Kip-Please tell us all how this “climate change” or “global warming” or what ever name that sticks has effected you. Is the water deeper at Flagler Beach? did your garden quit growing? what has changed in the weather since you were a kid. Maybe you shouldn’t believe everything you read. Much of the data feed to you is fudged by the same people you worship. Maybe money has more to with the findings than science. You keep driving your Prius and I will drive my SUV.

    • Kip Durocher says:

      I have accused no one of worship, and worship no one, so try and be civil or this will be the last reply to you. But I have a feeling you don’t really want a reply or an intelligent debate.
      For 10 years every summer from 1996 it would rain in the summer so much that several times my pool over flowed and I had to drain hundreds of gallons out. For the last 5 summers I have not had to do this once, if fact I have had to add water many times every summer.
      Since I was a kid Florida’s traditional wet and dry seasons have completely reversed. We get more rain now in dry season than wet.
      I have studied hurricanes seriously since the 60s ~ call it a hobby
      Tell me what you have observed in the hurricane patterns in the last 1 – 45 years?
      In 20 years in this home in Flagler Beach the water from the river in my backyard has risen to almost go in my pool 12 times, all in the last 7 years. Never before.
      I have fished the river from high bridge to Matanzas Inlet furiously for over 20 years. I was a guide until my body gave out. 4 years ago something happened that had not happened in the previous 16. I started to catch large hammer head and black tip sharks in the river just south of route 100. Almost 9 miles to the ocean one way and almost 25 the other. Why. Lack of fresh water run off has made the river saltier.
      I do not believe everything I read ~ hardly any media do I believe. But I don’t dismiss something totally based on a few WSJ stories. That is the pr paper from Rupert Murdoch to you for big business.
      Beyond global warming they speak of odder weather ~ more so than global warming to push their spin.
      I don’t really car for cars much. Took typing and home ed when all the guys took shops ~ only guy in both classes. Prius and Volt are just sales gimmicks. So are SUVs actually ~ just get to sell more $ car.

      Don’t just shut your mind. Ever

      Want to read something interesting here is a good page. skip the prop and b.s. Just scroll down 1/3 page and read Supreme Court Justice Powell’s memo to the American Chamber of Commerce 40 years ago. How he advises co-opting education, media, public thought ect…..
      Written a few months before his appointment but not released until years later. Did not want it read at his hearings.

  11. funstuff says:

    well said, Flaglerlive. :)

    There was definitely a time when i debated going over seas to pursue citizenship in another country. Look at Europe: I’d rather pay hefty taxes if it grants health care to everyone and improves our education system.

    If you really want to know how terrible the U.S. education system is, please watch the Documentary “Waiting for Superman.” It’s definitely an eye-opener.

  12. palmcoaster says:

    Well said Kip. Keep up the good work!

  13. Layla says:

    For those of you wanting to pay more taxes, you know of course that you are free to do that in this country? The government here will willingly take your money and I’m sure there are many who would greatly appreciate your generosity.

    And for those fed up with things here, you too are so very fortunate that we still have the right to leave this country.

    Aren’t we a truly lucky people?

  14. Bob E. says:

    I believe it was editorials just like this one that ran the old Daytona Beach News Journal out of business when you were there. When they came to my house asking why I had dropped my subscription I told them it was because of the biased liberal editorials. He agreed and said they had taken care of a portion of that problem and were working on the other part. I now see what the other part he was talking about was, you.
    Keeping the rhetoric like the Dems vs. the Reps is what has gotten the current POTUS the glorious distinction of now being compared to Jimmy Carter. Now I can relate this webpage to the same as I did the DBNJ and will take care of the problem in the same fashion, GOOD BYE!!!!!!!!!! Live your liberal schtick and see how many buy it or your ads.

    • Pierre Tristam says:

      Bob, for the record, when the old pinko liberal socialist islamist terrorist democrat atheist illegal-immigrant elitist yankee merlot-drunk oversexed NEA-sell-out art-subsidizing pro-union commie feminist homo wussy french-cuffed Beattie cartoon-loving crew I was a part of was at the News-Journal, the paper had significantly higher circulation, about 25 percent more advertising, was more profitable than it is now, and of course was a lot more readable and bearable, assuming you were literate–which, judging from the countless and rather lengthy comments you’ve dropped here at FlaglerLive since you discovered us in July, I have to assume you are. Of course if you prefer a more conservative or reactionary venue, you can always go back to the old paper. Oh, wait. they don’t welcome your comments there, as yours always have been in this intolerant liberal inferno. Anyway, Thanks for the compliments. If you need help with your addiction to FlaglerLive, let me know. There is a support group, and some of its counselors’ best friends are Republicans.

  15. palmcoaster says:

    @Bob. E. We, here fan readers and comment contributors to Flagler Live, wish you farewell and happy trails and try not to litter them so much on your way. Flagler Live is the best that this community has here, at least since I moved in 1991. If we had Flagler Live, maybe we would have not lost our 16 blocks of public ocean beach front “traded to Ginn” in the late nineties for 300 hundred acres of swamp in the bun docks and a $20,000 check by then County Commissioners with Jim Darby chairman at the commands, as only very few of us including myself went to those meetings to oppose it. That is when we lost our Sun Sports Resort Ocean front pool I believe. Imagine if today Palmcoasters would still have that pool facility for the affordable membership we had then,on the beach. Imagine that, county sold our only Palmcoasters used land beach front. Also maybe would not have let go of our Palm Coast utility when we had first right of refusal and county attorney convince the same county commissioners not to fight with the Florida Water corporation “big ticket attorneys” that ended up buying it to at about 12 million or less, given then commissioners pathetic legal advise. Please correct me if my figures are incorrect. Then after about 8 years when city incorporated and Florida Water wanted to sell it to some Florida panhandle cities funded by Wall Street, City of Palm Coast fought to retain ownership for us at a cost of 89 million in bonds. Some big boys profit there, and taxpayers paid!. If we would had Flagler Live then maybe we would not have lost our beloved Palm Coast Resort/former Sheraton ITT hotel and all the amenities we had. As far is concerned Flagler Live, is doing great with advertising as we all can see…and will continuo to grow as I even plan to advertise soon. I just hope Flagler Live would have reported the last meetings held for the Parkway East District (Commercial Redevelopment) planned by Canadian Consultant Stantec and the Matanzas Parkway exchange access to I-95 presented by the County..

  16. Layla says:

    This is supposed to be interesting and dare I say fun, guys. I think Pierre knows that when he comes up with an editorial such as this it will bring comments. I suppose the challenge is for us to work things out, if we can, and learn a little something from one another along the way, ala PalmCoaster and others. So you see, there is a community here with views from what I hate to say is all sides. I don’t like that word, SIDES.

    The temptation is always there to blow, especially when you see the hate that is being written in the daily news articles. but most of the time, we don’t….possibly because we are friends and neighbors, no matter what “side” we are on.

    We all need to move a little more toward the middle ground where most of us used to stand, and we need to learn a little more patience and a little more respect.

    That happens here, most of the time, which is why I think we are drawn to this site, in addition to the fact that it is a very good site for local news.

    Bob E., you are free to make that choice to “sign off”. I hope you will not.

  17. William says:

    I will agree, to some extent, with our friends on the right here. We DO have a spending problem in this country. It’s called the Department of Defense, or, as Eisenhower warned, the Military/Industrial Complex. This nation spends more on “defense” than the next 15 countries combined. The war in Iraq, sold to the American public with a pack of lies, was supposedly going to cost the low, low price of $20 billion, according to the war criminal Rumsfeld. So far, we’re over the $1 trillion mark, much of which was borrowed from China, which, of course, suggests interest payments as well. And who has benefited? That’s right, many of those 350,000 millionaires who dabble in defense contracts.

    Logic would dictate that when the country is suffering from financial woes, the patriotic thing to do would be for those millionaires to give back to the country which enabled them to become wealthy. In the real world, however, the M$M driven meme that it’s all the fault of the unionized teacher or bus driver has gained currency with far too large a contingent of the sheople who, all evidence aside, will not accept the fact that they too are part of the 99%.

  18. palmcoaster says:

    William is correct is a combination of over spending in all these wars started with basic lies like the invented WMD, also lets not forget the billions in foreign aid, meanwhile we do not aid our own here and neglect maintenance, repair and replacement of our vital infrastructure that actually will created millions of jobs if done. Also very undermining the lack of sufficient revenue given the tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations as well as tax incentives and tax refunds and tax heavens to the latest. Also the lack of sufficient exports revenue as we increase imports when buy all made in China satisfying the greedy American manufacturers that took our jobs overseas to satisfy that greed. These dunces expect us to buy that stuff while people do not have jobs.
    These government budgets are being funded entirely by middle class and workers now (income tax, payroll tax, sales tax, real state tax, gouging gas prices tax, etc. etc.) and is not longer sustainable as millions are jobless. Obama needs to end these wars NOW!

  19. Mark says:

    When Bush took office the debt was 5.7 trillion.
    When Bush left office it was 10.7 trillion, an increase of 5 trillion over 8 years.
    It is now 15 trillion, an increase of about 4.3 trillion in about 3 years and still climbing. At this rate it will be at about 21 trillion after 8 years of obamy. And this doesn’t include his health care debacle.

    TAXING THE WEALTHY WILL NOT HELP! Believe it or not, taxing the wealthy only increases the burden on the consumer, who happens to the US!

    It is time to stop kicking the can down the road and taxing the wealthy is not going to stop the bleeding.

    Get a grip, cut spending, now!

  20. Mark says:

    Cut planned abortinhood to pay for the payroll tax!

  21. Love them Guns says:

    Every Republican talking point states that the country needs to cut spending, cut spending; the country is spending out of control, spending like no tomorrow, evil, evil spending.

    What are our biggest expenditures? Defense spending. And now what? I would love to see a Republican party decrying our outrageous spending for Defense, but that’s never going to happen.

    If you want the country to stop spending lazily, you might start offering up what would amount to a real solution: less spending on military, more spending on people.

  22. Kip Durocher says:

    Obama, while being a big let down, did inherit unchangeable costs from the two ongoing wars. That is not sadly where his spending should be. When he came in the country needed a massive jump start. Huge expenditures on infrastructure and education ~ but he was foolish and squandered time on healthcare that the citizens are not ready to know they need.
    Our defense industry, or as Eisenhower called it, the “military industrial complex” needs to be cut 60% as he predicted it is out of control. If you have never read it you should.
    It should be on the list with the Gettysburg Address for required memorization in high school.

    The military is bloated beyond anything ~ USA spends more of it’s GDP on military than the next 2-10 on the list do combined.
    Top 5 military Air Forces in the world
    1. US Air Force 2. US Navy 3. US Army 4. United Kingdom 5. US Marines
    The Air National Guards of several states are in the top 25 list.

    US Navy has 11 active nuclear aircraft carriers ~ the whole rest of the world ~ every country ~ has a total of 10. Only 2 countries have 2. We have 3 under construction.
    Why does this go on? The defense industry is one of the biggest dollar job markets for retired generals and Washington voted out politicians. The get high 6 figure jobs. Hundreds of them do.
    Just to lobby their old pals for more money to feed the military/industrial/complex.
    We definitely need a tax overhaul and increases for everyone.
    There are none so blind as those who do not want to see.
    Old Navajo saying, “If we don’t turn around soon we will get where we are going.”

  23. Oneofthe10%whovoted says:

    Taxes for everyone”, Kip? How are we supposed to pay them when only 49% are paying now. Without jobs, how do you expect us to pay them?

    You got any more millionaires tucked away?

  24. Marc0s says:

    The simple MATH here is if everyone on this country paid 100% taxes it would still be BK and the debt could NOT BE PAID, sorry it’s over folks! It has been that way for quite some time. We need to be looking forward to a new government and country (and not the UN or EU) when this one collapses, and it will, democrats and republicans leading the way (just keep voting, you do realize its the same party?). Maybe have more than 2 parties next time? Wow what an idea.

    And if you send your children to public indoctrination , well I feel sorry for them and their closed Justin Beaver minds and climate change religion. People like you Pierre are very lucky I stick around and pay those taxes on such a waste, but it keeps them busy I guess from robbing my house or joining a lynch mod at Carter park. But don’t worry eventually I think many will realize these taxes are too high and there’s no point in paying a 100-200-300k mortgage on a worthless house (well 40k since that’s the bottom set by the geniuses in our local government) and move elsewhere. This will continue until PC looks more like Detroit with houses selling for $1 a piece. Oh that’s right it already does.

    Ever wonder why in China or India kids only go to school for 8 years, can fluently speak 2-3 languages and fully understand calculus or higher (that’s for the underachievers) for $1500 for the ENTIRE education, yet it costs $20k per student per year here? hmmmm must be tax shortfall not some lunatic spending 100s of millions on new schools that wont be needed when the population flees..

    Better yet lets ponder how well prepared our “public education” kids are going to be in the future when competing on equal ground with these countries when having such low standards here. Gonna be fun to watch =p

    PS how much does it pay to write drivel such as yours, I need a job. However, seeing as you work there, someone who lives in reality probably wouldn’t fit in to well.

  25. Marc0s says:

    Oh and for the occupy movement OWS- Was great until it got taken over by the Dems. Same fate as the Tea party and Repubs. Truly sad. Watch and learn folks , this is how these grassroots movements are taken over and distorted with the 2, left and right wing, which are wings of the same bird.


  26. Layla says:

    Love them Guns, you have to live under a budget, don’t you? Why should Congress not have to take a pay cut, just like the rest of the country? Why shouldn’t there be budget cuts to some of the wasteful programs we all know they have so that you and your family can keep more of your own money? The money you should be allowed to keep is going to some other country to help develop it.

    Under normal times, I wouldn’t have a problem with that. However, these are not normal times. When do we get the help we need? In an emergency, your family should come first above all else. That’s not even close to happening now.

    Have you ever been able to save much? I haven’t. I watch families who can’t afford health insurance, can’t pay the rent, can’t even buy gas for the car and are losing jobs and Washington, both sides, live as if there is not a national emergency out here.

    I don’t know about you, but I am kinda fed up with the politics of this. What good has it done any of us? Why are we not allowed to keep more of our own money? I don’t think that’s asking too much.

    When did we arrive at the state where the government does everything for us? They can’t even run the Post Office under budget. The federal highway system is a mess and you think they’re going to give you good healthcare? You must be kidding….

    The federal government doesn’t do anything well. Let’s fire them, seriously. They are supposed to work for us and now they’ve got us working for them.

    What’s wrong with this picture?

  27. Doug Chozianin says:

    Pierre, your e-publication is very informative to all Flagler residents, but your economic policy and political advice is just plain wrong.

    52% of us pay income taxes, 48% don’t. If you taxed every millionaire 100% of their income it would run the government only 5 months.

    Tax the rich? I don’t think so. There’re just not enough dollars available. If you can’t tax your way into balancing a budget, then you have to cut spending. (Exception: Waren Buffet, Bill Gates, Pierre Tristam and anyone else mouthing-off about wanting to be taxed more. 90% tax rate for them sounds fair to me. Let’s see how they like them apples)

    Suggestioin: How about eliminating all personal and corporate deductions and immediately reducing tax rates and government expenditures by 10% and then plan for further reductions for the next several years.

    If you want a worthless dollar, death-panel controlled healthcare, wage controls, forced vegan diets, bicycle-only local transportation and a soylent-green government, all you have to do is vote Democrat.

  28. Christie 2012 says:

    Kip- Now look what these darn Canadians are thinking of doing. It’s not there military they want to cut, but bail on the global warming hoax and the kyoto treaty. But it’s big oils fault for this decision. right?

  29. Kip Durocher says:

    @Oneofthe10%whovoted ~ you are right ~ let’s just all give up!

    everyone pays taxes ~ even the dead
    there are taxes on grave and crypt maintenance.

    gasoline has a heavy tax ~ another .25-50 cents per gallon to the federal government would go a long way to help.
    look at your utilities bills ~ city, state and federal franchise fees ~ those are taxes ~ increase them 5%.
    A national sales tax of 1 or 2% would help.
    For the forseeable future eliminate all non-humanitarian foreign aid, even to Israel.

    But as I have said 10,000 times “CUT THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT 60%”

    Keep our nuclear deterrent at 100% efficiency

    There are ways ~ this can be turned around. It will be hard and there will be pain. But we must have the will. Citizens must demand that their elected officials get it done or else. Citizen non-involvement caused most of our problems. Most people don’t even know their elected officials names let alone their addresses,
    email and phone number.

    “Ever wonder why in China or India kids only go to school for 8 years…..”

    China and India do not have general public education systems ~ only those who can pay go.
    100s of millions of children have never been to school and never will in China and India.
    The smart ones that the governments of China and India send to school in America are from
    the political and business elite and have been groomed since ages 2-3

    “are wings of the same bird.”

    100% correct and that bird is a dead turkey

    • Oneofthe10%whovoted says:

      I’ll be happy to cut the defense dept, but I’m not paying ANOTHER DIME in taxes until I see some SERIOUS CUTS in Washington, across the board.

      They need to sacrifice as much as they have caused us to sacrific. Who said ANYTHING about giving up?

      I’m not having a problem with anything you’re saying except for a couple of minor tweaks, and that includes NO TAX INCREASES! (Sorry, didn’t mean to yell…)

  30. NortonSmitty says:

    Layla darlin’, as soon as I get done with my Sunday chores, I’m gonna’ tell you whats wrong with the Photoshopped picture you’re looking at.

  31. Kip Durocher says:

    Kudos !!
    the wording is superb.
    i made an attempt but pierre cricular 13teened it for incorrect syntax…,,,…..

    “I’ll be happy to cut the defense dept,…”

    then there may be hope for you yet.

  32. Kip Durocher says:

    “If you want a worthless dollar, death-panel controlled healthcare, wage controls, forced vegan diets, bicycle-only local transportation and a soylent-green government, all you have to do is vote Democrat.”

    Very nostalgic. I have not seen any stuff like this since William Safire wrote for Agnew/Nixon before they
    both had to resign in a deal to avoid impeachment and prison.

    Dougie you should contact Faux News or WSJ ~ they pay well for wordsmiths with your bent at plenteous

  33. Layla says:

    What exactly is the plan, Kip? Not seeing one from either side.

  34. JL says:

    I’d like to address those saying paying more taxes will help. I’m not sure if I agree or disagree. I don’t trust politicians anymore. I live part time in Philadelphia. The city has high real estate taxes, compared to Florida. We pay a state income tax AND we pay a 4% city wage tax. Philadelphia is one of the most taxed city in the U.S. However, we have the worst public schools, the worst crime, the city is filthy. We offer nothing. Our fire department has suffered station closings, and are now doing brown outs to save money. So where do our tax dollars go? No one seems to know. You can tax us more, but it’s what you do with the money that makes a difference. Higher taxes will NOT guarantee you better health insurance, or better schools, or ANYTHING. Congress will find a way to give themselves a raise, more perks, etc. A change in our system is what is needed, first. Let’s see some business people, not lawyers, become politicians, and for a reduced salary, less perks. Then I may agree to paying higher taxes.

  35. Kip Durocher says:


    don’t know much about Philly but it sounds like massive corruption. In contract letting, crony capitalism,
    bloated top management (who are patronage hacks more than managers) ~ typical government as usual
    with not a lick of sh!t difference be it dims or repugs in charge.

  36. some guy says:

    (Bush pushed through Congress the largest tax cut in the nation’s history, there wasn’t money to pay for it )

    Just want to know why when liberals talk about paying for taxes its always when we cut them?? We dont pay for a tax cut we just need not to spend it. But when it comes to raising taxes no mention of the cost when that is a COST to you or I directly or indirectly.

  37. John Dewitt says:

    Interesting comments by everyone. I still go back to my original thought, give the people what they democratically demand but make them fully pay for it. Doing so will create a groundswell of support to cut spending once they get the true tax bill.

Leave a Reply

Read FlaglerLive's Comment Policy | Subscribe to the Comment Feed rss flaglerlive comment feed rss

More stories on FlaglerLive


suppert flaglerlive flagler live palm coast flagler county news pierre tristam florida
news service of florida

Subscribe to FlaglerLive

Get immediate notification of new stories.

Log in
| FlaglerLive, P.O. Box 354263, Palm Coast, FL 32135-4263 | 386/586-0257